Americans fascination with guns and the military

There are many many threads devoted to possible scenerios where the US is at war with another superpower (usually China). In none of those threads does anyone seriously consider invading the continental US. I think at the core of this is the deep down knowledge that Americans have guns. Gun ownership is not only a right, it's a symbol of our Liberty and our acceptance of the sometimes terrible responsibility that comes with it.

You that live in societies where gun ownership is prohibited are not trusted with that responsiblity by those who lead you. The Democrats here feel that way about us too, but we still have the Constitution of the United States to protect our right to protect ourselves.

Personally, I don't like guns, nor do I own any. I don't even like to be around them, but this is a matter of principle so I fully support the rights of Americans to arm themselves. My choosing not to own guns is a lot better than not having the choice at all.

Maybe our fascination comes from the 2nd Amendment.

The National Guard, the oldest component of the Armed Forces of the United States and one of the nation's longest-enduring institutions, celebrated its 367th birthday on December 13, 2003. The National Guard traces its history back to the earliest English colonies in North America. Responsible for their own defense, the colonists drew on English military tradition and organized their able-bodied male citizens into militias.

The National Guard

Originally posted by Bleys
This is something I've never understood about my fellow libs (and maybe it's just because I live out West) but why shouldn't the 2nd amendment be given the same liberal interpretation that we insist others give the 1st amendment, etc.

It's about history and the true intent of the 2nd Amemdment. Imagine Europe wanted to become one big country, would Spain, England, etc. give up thier Armies? They would need protection from this new government. Same as our States during the birth of our Nation.

[edit on 6-7-2004 by curme]

Originally posted by Ambient Sound
There are many many threads devoted to possible scenerios where the US is at war with another superpower (usually China). In none of those threads does anyone seriously consider invading the continental US. I think at the core of this is the deep down knowledge that Americans have guns. Gun ownership is not only a right, it's a symbol of our Liberty and our acceptance of the sometimes terrible responsibility that comes with it.

You that live in societies where gun ownership is prohibited are not trusted with that responsiblity by those who lead you. The Democrats here feel that way about us too, but we still have the Constitution of the United States to protect our right to protect ourselves.

Personally, I don't like guns, nor do I own any. I don't even like to be around them, but this is a matter of principle so I fully support the rights of Americans to arm themselves. My choosing not to own guns is a lot better than not having the choice at all.

Finally a non gun owners opinion I can stand behind, Well said!

Um Netchicken,

Europe has had several totalitarian dictatorships in the past century. No one could fight back.

There havent been any in recent times because the US still maintains a large military presence.

Curme, the last line of the second amendment clearly staes the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed upon. The original intent was for the creation of militias.

Now, the National guard has been used federally, so they arent really state armies anymore, being part of the department of the army. The only true militas now are those created by individual citizens.

The second amendment says we can have and keep guns. It does not say ONLY the militia can have them.

16,000 people killed by guns in the us is a tiny number. compare that toi the number of drunk driving deaths, medical malopractice deaths, and knife stabbings.

So its not a terrible epidemic. when you consider 80 million Americans are liscened to own guns and have them, I would say there really is no problem with guns in this country except media sensationalism.

Historically speaking, societies without skill at arms have never achieved prominence in the world, and tend to disappear quickly.

While some people may wish to deny this, all people know it to be true.

Seen in this perspective, it would be remarkable if Americans did not have a fascination with weapons and warfare.

America did not achieve independence through negotiation.

so we can fight off our enemies. and help europe and sandanavia out the the russians ever drcide to invade. if your countyr took up the same thing im pretty sure you might of given the nazis a run for their money.

Originally posted by Netchicken
When are americans going to stop using this hackneyed, false and logically flawed notion of "the people must have guns because the government has them".

Come on guys, wake up to the world reality, do you see any countries in western Europe, or oceania suddenly becoming tolatarian regimes because their citizens don't carry guns? No, you don't.

How about aknowlodging the truth. If America DID become tolatarian and you had guns what difference would you be able to make? Any? Nope, none, you would just die like flies. whether or not you had a pistol. This fantasy of gun ownership is merely an excuse to indulge in a national obsession.

Off the top of my head I would have to say Germany and Russia. Both countries had strong anti-gun laws. Hitler and Stalin both knew how much easier it is to control unarmed people compared to armed ones.

As for guns not making a difference sure no rifle is going to stop a M1a1 rolling down the street. But as everyone can see in Iraq people with AK-47s can give even a super power army problems. Theres about 300million guns floating around the US that can make anyone think twice.

I don't think the US government will try and take over the US but I just want to have a rifle all of these antigun people must be dreaming if they think that if guns were illegal death rate would go down not really the criminals would still get them and we have had this law in the US for 228 years why change it now.

The only people who believe the idea that removing guns from American society will reduce crime are those who have been successfully duped into believing it by those who are funding civilian disarmament initiatives. It doesn't take much digging to find out who is behind these initiatives, or that their motive has nothing to do with lowering crime rates.

Experience with gun prohibitions in other countries, both recent and ancient, proves beyond doubt that crime is not reduced through disarming citizens, and, with virtually no exceptions, tends to be followed by increases in violent crime, sometimes very dramatic increases.

The purpose behind "gun control" is not to reduce crime, but to increase control.

Also if I or someone else wants to kill someone they will do it even if they don't have a gun beating people to death stabbing them it will get done it is just a lot messier

Honestly if I wanted to kill somebody all I would have to do is grab a frying pan hit them on the side of the head very hard and then there dead. No mess, difficult to identify the murder weapon.

Originally posted by Majic
The only people who believe the idea that removing guns from American society will reduce crime are those who have been successfully duped into believing it by those who are funding civilian disarmament initiatives.

Who are "they" if I may ask? And What are your reason for putting a greater trust in the arguments supplied by the opposite side, which I assume are funded byt the weapon manufacturers?

Originally posted by MajicThe purpose behind "gun control" is not to reduce crime, but to increase control.

And who are "they" who want "control"? I thought the movement behind gun control mainly came from worried parents, environment activists and similar groups?





[edit on 2004-7-21 by EyesOfTheFuture]

Because guns are cool.

guns can be used for offense and defence.

About three people in the US die each day thanks to there own guns. But one person a day dies because of there bathtub. Ok well can you really defend your self with a bathtub? You can only kill your self with the bathtub unless you drown a person. I think one thing that people like about guns is having the power to choose who lives and who dies. That power can be compacted into the palm of your hand. That probably explains part of the fasination.

Originally posted by EyesOfTheFuture
How come so many americans has an interest and seemingly a great fascination for arms, weapons and miltary stuff? Beeing from Sweden I find this kind of intriguing. Here we have no such culture, and certainly we have no law that allows averyone to carry arms.

Is this "fascination" for guns equally spread among all social groups? Geographically? I've also noticed that many of the members on ATS seems to have a big fascination with guns. Sometimes discussions about different weapons and military equipment sounds close to... errrm... sexual in nature

So -- How come??

Our country was born of War and chaos.........how can we not be attracted
to the very things that birth us?

Originally posted by EyesOfTheFuture
How come so many americans has an interest and seemingly a great fascination for arms, weapons and miltary stuff? Beeing from Sweden I find this kind of intriguing. Here we have no such culture, and certainly we have no law that allows averyone to carry arms.

Is this "fascination" for guns equally spread among all social groups? Geographically? I've also noticed that many of the members on ATS seems to have a big fascination with guns. Sometimes discussions about different weapons and military equipment sounds close to... errrm... sexual in nature

So -- How come??

in britain we have a NRA which i found to be quite serios and comanding so im assuming that the american one has to be similar.

I love machine guns, grenades, TNT, dynamite, Semtex, RPGs, sniper rifles, blasting caps, silencers, you name it. If it goes [[[!BANG!]]] I like it.

Now for the why. It keeps me safe and secure in my life, liberty, rights, property, from police state despotism and violent criminal elements alike. They're all the same to me whether they're wearing a shiny little badge and have a police state issued license-to-kill or not.

There's no sexual connotation attached to a man or boys fascination with weapons. That's just more sophomoric commie-feminist, police state, lesbian-homosexual, Jewish head shrink crap disseminated to lessen the attraction and appeal of weapons to the male population. It's Just another one of their little Jew monopoly media head games, that's all.





[edit on 21-7-2004 by neomoniker]

As others have said, it comes down to self determination. Wether it be a home invader, terrorist, crazy neighbor on crack or a corrupt government. We were founded on the principles of self defense and many of us continue that tradition.
I was raised around firearms and taught at a very young age how to handle them safely and effectively. I have passed on that knowledge to my son and I'm sure he will pass it to his. It's part of American heritage.
As for us being "killed like flies". What military force can possibly stand against 80 million armed citizens? The only choice would be nuclear weapons and that would be counter productive. It's not like we are concentrated in small areas to be "cleansed".

Originally posted by Fry2
As for us being "killed like flies". What military force can possibly stand against 80 million armed citizens? The only choice would be nuclear weapons and that would be counter productive. It's not like we are concentrated in small areas to be "cleansed".

I agree with you,Iraq is the latest example of what insurgents armed with mainly light weapons AKs and such can do to the biggest military in the world. A few hundred or thousand can give them quite a headache. Now imagine what 80 million such people could do to a army.