Any Atheists here experienced a demon?

the real demonic soul is that of the pardoner in the 'Pardoner's Tale' written by Chaucer. A very BAD man.

Well, I suppose I have avoided responding to this post for long enough.

I am not sure how you define "demonic experience". But I will explain what happened to me, and you can decide if that fits your definition.

When I was 11 or so, an event in my life caused me to reject God. I simply stopped believing in Him.

From 12-20, I practiced what could be best described as a "secular Budhism". I didn't believe in enlightenment, I was in search of inner tranquility. Early in this period, I began practicing what would be called "tibetan dream yoga", even though I didn't even know anything about such practices. Simply, I sought tranquility in my waking mind and tranquility in my sleeping mind. In effect, I was "lucid dreaming" every night, even though I had never heard of the term.

As I was perfecting control over my dreams, I encountered "dream stuff" left over after clearing my sleeping mind. To say these things had a form would be an over statement, they were like wisps of blackness. At the time, I figured it was just remnants of my subconscious "hanging on".

I began meditating in my sleep, the same as I would while I was awake.

Some time after I could meditate while sleeping, something disturbed my meditation. I opened my dream eyes, and saw a man in front of me. I closed my eyes, and willed this dream stuff to be gone. And attempted to return to my dream meditation. But I could not. I opened my eyes, and this man was still there. I was suprised, and asked "What are you still doing here?" I don't know why I acknowledged it, it was only a figment of my mind. But it answered, "I am a spirit sent to guide you.". My reply was, "I do not believe in spirits." It replied, "That's fine, I believe in you."

Needless to say, my "sub conscious mind" wouldn't let me meditate, so I figured, I would find out what it wanted. During the course, of the next 4 years or so, while I was sleeping I either meditated, or "this representation of my sub conscious" would disturb me, and I would take the time to discover what it wanted. I learned many things, that I did not know I knew. But surely, I knew it for how else could I learn it in a dream?

About the time I was 20 or 21, it showed me something that I knew I couldn't possibly know. At that time, I suppose I doubted it was my sub-conscious. I simply asked "What are you?" and what is best described as "living hell" started for me. Simply put, every moment I was asleep was a nightmare, and the lack of restful sleep began taking its toll on me while I was awake. Everything I knew about controlling dreams failed to work. I literally thought I was going crazy. I knew I was dreaming but had no control. I was afraid to sleep, and couldn't rationalize the events that took place. I would stay up as long as possible, and only sleep when my body made me.

After about half a year, I began talking to a friend of mine who is a Christian. He asked what was wrong, I told him I was having bad dreams, but refused to give details. I didn't want him to waste the time telling me I was demonically possessed or some other nonsense.

Later in the year, I honestly thought I was losing my mind. I was for lack of a better discription a "basket case". There was one particular week when I don't think I slept more than a couple of hours. This friends asked me if it was dreams again. I simply said yes. He said, "If you are having bad dreams, God will help you." To which I replied, "I don't believe in God." And then he said something I will never forget, "That's ok, he believes in you."

The similarity of those words and the words that were spoken the first time I met this thing was striking. That night, for no reason I can fathom, I said the words "God help me.", to which this think replied "Your God cannot help you." But, the dream ended, and for the first time in many months, I slept without having a nightmare.

Now you might think this was the end of it, except I wasn't about to move from my position concerning God. I was very stubborn when I was younger, and dreams simply are not proof of anything. They are dreams-- manifestations of your sub-conscious. The next night I had another nightmare.

It was probably another week after that, I had a nightmare that was best described as a "recurring nightmare" except instead of recurring over the course of days, it was repeated that same night. Without going into details, I remember each dream being 3 "days" long, each dream repeated the same course of events, at the end of each dream the friend I mentioned would be at the end and say "You know what you have to do." Something really bad would happen, and as the smoke cleared, I was back at the beginning of the dream. I don't know how many times this dream repeated the same series, it was at least 3, but it felt like it was many times more than that. Anyway, the entire time, I knew I was dreaming, and I couldn't wake up, and I didn't know how long I was sleep. I really afraid I would never wake up, and I would be stuck in this never ending dream. I had a feeling of complete hopelessness.

The series finally ended, when my friend said "You know what you have to do." and I answered "No. I don't. I've tried everything!" I feel to my knees crying because I couldn't bear to see the really bad things happen again. I started saying the words to a prayer I hadn't said since I was 12. A feeling of calm came over me, and I woke up.

As I sat there trying to figure out what happened, I realized I meant the words I was saying. It wasn't just words. I had actually prayed.

The dreams never returned, and I have never stopped praying.

Looking back I describe these things as "dream demons". I would like to say it was just my sub-conscious mind playing tricks on me, but I can not rationalize why it would wait that long to manifest itself as "evil" and then simply stop when I started praying.

There you have it, a very long-short story. If that fits your definition of a "demonic experience" then I was an athiest when it started. By the time it ended, I was not.



[edit on 7-7-2004 by Raphael_UO]

Originally posted by Raphael_UO
I was an athiest when it started. By the time it ended, I was not.
[edit on 7-7-2004 by Raphael_UO]

Very interesting story, but when you say you are no longer an athiest do you mean that you now just believe that there is more than just this physical world, or that you are now a christian?

Raphael- Yowza!!!! Thats a great story, must have been an amazing experience for you!

But why is it that when an athiest says they are no longer athiest, people instantly assume christianity? Drives me insane! But that's just my personal opinion, Im not looking for another religious mud pit

Originally posted by Faceless

Originally posted by Raphael_UO
I was an athiest when it started. By the time it ended, I was not.
[edit on 7-7-2004 by Raphael_UO]

Very interesting story, but when you say you are no longer an athiest do you mean that you now just believe that there is more than just this physical world, or that you are now a christian?

I believe there is one God.
The core of my belief is "God is. Love God. Live God." is enough to believe.
I do not believe blind faith is enough. One must be able to explain to their children "Why?" this core belief is enough.

Today, I call myself a Christian because that is where I found the reality of this Truth. I believe in the teachings in the Bible. But, I do not believe those are the only teachings that teach "God is. Love God. Live God."



[edit on 8-7-2004 by Raphael_UO]

Could it be that 'Demons' are tools of God to chase and scare you back into his influence? To make your mind complient to God's wishes.

God has his/its trip. I have mine. If I surrender my trip to God's will there is only God's trip. And you can bet what i think of that.

This is a very interesting post. I my self am not an atheist, even though at times I have questioned the "idea" of god. I am now of spiritual age that I don't really question it anymore. I hate to label my self but I think my beliefs now are more along the lines of Islam(not orthodox).

I post a dream I had a while back and to and to some degree I think it was a visit from a sprit of some sort. To make a long story short I saw this creature that could be classified as a demon on a cross in my dream. It went into a lake and I was transported to this room. I ended up taking control and actually talking to the creature and asking what it was doing. Of course I don't remember what I said or what it said. But what I do remember is that it sounded like an educated man. After that I wasn't scared just more aware of what i was messing with

I believe that there are a lot of things out there that we can not explain. I don't think God created demons to scare us closer to him. Each person chooses ( whether in this life or the next) when they are ready for God to enter there life. Demons I think are created by us Human. Every "evil sprit" was human at one time.

We try to blame the devil for all the wrongs and evils in the world when it is really us humans that cause all the pain and suffering. People uses the devil as a scapegoat so they don't have to accept responsibility for there actions.

I am still in my early phases of my spiritual growth and I see that there is a lot that I wasn't ready for or in a sense didn't know about. I'm not scared any more and there really isn't any turning back. As long a God has my back and he believes in me I don't care what this world thinks about me. God continues to bless me everyday and I hope that one day I can fully submit "his" will onto mine. I think we all have to face our "demons" at one point, It is a part of life. God gave us free will but he didn't change the laws of karma.

Originally posted by radardog
I can recommend some ethics books by those authors if you are interested (they can probably be found online). I would say that assuming 'right' and 'wrong' do not exist would not be, in the least, pragmatic; our society generally has a sense of right and wrong -- either shown through law or social distaste. So while you may deny there exists a good and evil, chances are you may want to at least act like there is.

radardog - thanks, I would like to investigate these authors you metnioned and would appreciate your recommening books.

Originally posted by KSmith69
atheist or christian, how would you know if you had experienced a deamon?

Good question and I think that is partly what I am getting at here. I have found online and in books all sorts of catalogues of demons, listing all their ranks, names, powers, etc. And many people claim to have had demonic experiences or experiences with an evil entity and in response to these so many people have suggestions on how to combat them or remove them but what I really want to know is how do we know that these experiences are demons or evil spirits (if they exist at all) and how does anyone know enough about them if they do exist to know their names and how to remove them or call upon them?

Originally posted by StickyG

What does that mean exactly?

It means that reality is different for each individual person. So if your mind can conceive it, then it exists somewhere, if only to you.

This is what I'm trying to get to the bottom of - do these things exist independt of the human imagination or have we created them? If they are real then they would exist whether or not humans do. And if so, how long have they existed? If they existed prior to humans then how can their sole purpose be (as proposed by others) to gather human souls? What was their purpose prior to human existance? What would be their purpose if humans were erradicated?

Originally posted by StationsCreation
Now just because I am a Christian dosn't mean I straight away believe all this to be demonic, even my experience. I look at the facts then decide.

If you notice each case occured in bed, when trying to sleep or sleeping. Out of four cases this is a common factor. So in my opinion it leave's a few possibilties.

1. These experiences were a product of our own minds, created by our preconceptions of spirituality and made real through that strange period before you fall asleep, or even when asleep.

2. Or demonic activity more often than not happens when people are drifting off to sleep, so they can keep a low cover.

I tend to believe that these were more likely products of our minds. Biblically speaking demonic manifestations were much more tangible, like human possesion and the like.

Anyways, its all just speculation, there are too many different things to consider.

Very astute observations and analysis. I too have had similar experiences while asleep or in bed (dark figure, paralysis, can't breathe, etc.). My first thought was that it was a demon - then I woke up and did some homework. I believe now that it was sleep paralysis (a fairly common occurrance especially at the age I was when these things happened). And I didn't chase it away by praying, I actually yelled and swore at - very effective. The human brain is a very powerful organ.

Originally posted by Faceless
I am an atheist, and I know other atheist who have had demonic experiences, so it doesn't just happen to Christians.

I do believe demons exist so if I ever saw one I still wouldn't believe in God.

Interesting - thanks for the response. Would you mind sharing some specifics? As in:

Did you see it?
What did it do?
Did it speak?
Was there any physical contact?
Did it leave anything behind?
Where did it come from - where did it go?
What was the circumstance that brought it and sent it away?

Sorry to ask so many questions but I'm so very curious.

I believe in God, and I believe in demons. I believe that demons are Satans angels/helpers to corrupt people to do evil/sin against God. If you can't tell I'm a Christian.

Originally posted by radardog

Originally posted by StickyG
For something to exist only takes one mind to conceive.

I brought this up earlier, kind of. I can imagine a demon. So it conceptually exists. And it exists in my imagination. But I don't think that is the goal of this thread. When we assume an objective reality -- possibly one that if something exists in actuality (not conceptually) we should be able to show others through some method.

Yes radardog, I agree - the point is if something physically exists (whether within the demensions we are able to perceive or in others such as spiritually) it will exist completely independent of us. For example; birds exist and would exist whether we see them or not and whether we believe they exist or not. Just wash your car and park it under a tree for proof.

Originally posted by Raphael_UO
When I was 11 or so, an event in my life caused me to reject God. I simply stopped believing in Him.
There you have it, a very long-short story. If that fits your definition of a "demonic experience" then I was an athiest when it started. By the time it ended, I was not.

[edit on 7-7-2004 by Raphael_UO]

First let me say - I have no definition of a "demonic experience" other than those that have been conveyed to me by others. I am open to any definition those who have had these experiences provide.

That said, that is a very disturbing story - I can see why it would have had such a profound effect on you. I'm sure it would have had drastic affects on my life. Can I ask you one question?...

What was your religious upbringing (you say you lost faith at 11 years old)? And after this experience did you return to the religious beliefs of your youth or something new?

Originally posted by slank
Could it be that 'Demons' are tools of God to chase and scare you back into his influence? To make your mind complient to God's wishes.

God has his/its trip. I have mine. If I surrender my trip to God's will there is only God's trip. And you can bet what i think of that.

Slank - very intersting take. I wonder....? Then, ultimately that would mean God is manipulating people through fear. This brings up more questions for me: Do you believe that God intervenes in human existance? Does evil or an evil force exist separate from God? If so, does this also intervene in human existance?

Originally posted by DaTruth
I believe that there are a lot of things out there that we can not explain. I don't think God created demons to scare us closer to him. Each person chooses ( whether in this life or the next) when they are ready for God to enter there life. Demons I think are created by us Human. Every "evil sprit" was human at one time.

We try to blame the devil for all the wrongs and evils in the world when it is really us humans that cause all the pain and suffering. People uses the devil as a scapegoat so they don't have to accept responsibility for there actions.

Very interesting DaTruth. This is actually something I had considered a while ago. I was watching the movie "The Exorcist". I find this the scarriest movie ever made. But I started thinking about why I find it so scarry since I am not convinced personally that the devil or demons exist. Then I thought - geez, someone thought this up. Some human being wrote this book, another wrote the screenplay, another did the make-up (that face!) and then it hit me - this is a human creation and that is precisely why I find it so scary. The fact that the human mind can be so dark and sinister is to me more frightening than the idea of spirits and demons. It would be much easier to accept that some unknowable, uncontrolable oustide force was responsible for such things. But the idea that a fellow human being was able to conceive of such horror and create it, that to me is the ultimate scare.

Originally posted by badkitty
What was your religious upbringing (you say you lost faith at 11 years old)? And after this experience did you return to the religious beliefs of your youth or something new?

I was raised Roman Catholic. I did not return to the Catholic Church.

Originally posted by DaTruth
We try to blame the devil for all the wrongs and evils in the world when it is really us humans that cause all the pain and suffering. People uses the devil as a scapegoat so they don't have to accept responsibility for there actions.

Lots of people subscribe to this. Sometimes people are the culprits. But not always. The devil is as real as the god, and like god has influence on us, so does the devil.

Im not an atheist [so why im I posting here] but I once glimpsed the devil in a dream, he leapt into darkness and out of sight.

One night, I was in West Sussex, i had been out for a drive after an argument with the misses. I stopped in this quite lane by a gate which lead into a field and got out. It was a warm night, clear sky, and a big full moon. As I stood there having a smoke looking up at the stars, I got this intense feeling I was being watched. I turned round to get back into the car and I couldn�t help but notice across the lane in the bushes these bright glowing red eyes staring back at me. I never moved so fast in my life. Demon? Maybe. Werewolf? Who knows?

Badkitty I thought The Exorcist was the scariest film of all time, then I saw The Ring.

[edit on 9-7-2004 by kode]

Originally posted by kode
The devil is as real as the god, and like god has influence on us, so does the devil.

Im not an atheist [so why im I posting here] but I once glimpsed the devil in a dream, he leapt into darkness and out of sight.

Badkitty I thought The Exorcist was the scariest film of all time, then I saw The Ring.[edit on 9-7-2004 by kode]

Kode - I'm not trying to be confrontational so please don't take this as such but - How do you know the devil is real? You seem very sure of this and I want to know how. I would also like to be as sure of this fact. And as far as a non-atheist responding - I was hoping this would happen. I really want to see how many have had demonic experiences and what their religious affiliation is.

As for the Ring - I saw it, thought it had some fantastic tech. effects but still did not scare me like the Exorcist. I'm still waiting for something to top that for me.