Any Atheists here experienced a demon?

Originally posted by mutehalo
heres my views on demons. i consider myself a gnostic, pagan, budist, deist for the most part. i believe that demons are many things. but if you have an established belief system, you'll imediately label things of that nature as demons, angels, aliens, ghosts ect. so what can these so called entities be?

then again maby aliens are manipulating us with religion and these so called demons are actually aliens using religion as means to controll and or help us. hey, anything can happen.

[edit on 6-7-2004 by mutehalo]

[edit on 6-7-2004 by mutehalo]

Mutehalo - very intersting ideas here. First, may I ask (confirm) have you, yourself, had any demonic experiences? I am assuming from your response you have not but want to make sure I'm correct. Also, your whole idea that demons are basically the manifestation of human ideologies, beliefs or fears is very plausable.

Would you please weigh in with your final answer - demonic experiences or no?

Badkitty- I like your name

O.k., so if you are a demon and your out doing what your master (satan) wants you to do, you will be tormenting Christians, and those who sit on the fence. The strongest weapon a Christian has is thier faith, so if you can break thier faith, you will have a big victory. Most people that haven't spent a lot of time understanding the bible think that if you are christian and believe in Jesus, that you are impervious to a demonic attack. Just the opposite is actually true, because Jesus told us that his path was hard and that by accepting him we would be ridiculed and tormented by those that oppose him. His own life is a good example of how a christian should expect things to go. A christian that has accepted Jesus understands that they will be targeted not just by Satan, but also by the people of this earth. For a demon, making an impact on your moral is probably the most important thing they can do. They want to break a persons faith so that the person turns away from God and back to the world. Job is another good book to read about this. Satan actually was allowed to do his worst against Job in order to break his faith. Job lost his home, livestock, health, family and friends, by the end he was a scrub of a man living on the streets with sores all over his body and not a single soul to empathize with him without judging him. In Jobs time, even his friends told him that he must have hidden sin and not truely be with God. God made clear the truth that Job was one of his best servants. Job was restored, but not before enduring some terrible hardships.
If you were recruiting for your own army, would you go and try to recruit the people that had already inlisted in your army? I think what most would do is to try and steal away the best people from your enemys army.

Popeye - First thanks, I always thought that would be a cool name for a band and I am a total cat person. But on to the topic -

Thanks so much for this perspective - this really is a bit of a different view than I was taking. When I was asking about demons I was thinking phyiscal (or etherical) apparitions such as dark figures or strange phenomenon. But I see your view is that (and correct me if I'm wrong) when bad things happen to good people this is actually a demonic experience. As you said Job had lost it all - this would be a demonic experience. So if I lose my job, my house, my family or whatever is important to me in this life then that could be considered a demonic experience. If this is what you are saying then that is very interesting. So basically the idea is negative experiences are demonic experiences. Am I on track here?

Hahha maybe I wasn't too clear with my diction there. When I said "slammed into my....." it wasn't in cutting, it was more in an attempt to cut but it was in a struggle.
It never bled. Except once or twice.

Originally posted by Scat
Hahha maybe I wasn't too clear with my diction there. When I said "slammed into my....." it wasn't in cutting, it was more in an attempt to cut but it was in a struggle.
It never bled. Except once or twice.

Whew! Thank goodness - I think you freaked a few of us out - including me!

Originally posted by badkitty

Radardog - very intersting response. I have a few further questions though. First off - an athiest by definition is (according to Mirriam-Websters):

"Main Entry: athe�ist
Pronunciation: 'A-thE-ist
Function: noun
: one who believes that there is no deity"
....
"Main Entry: 1ag�nos�tic
Pronunciation: ag-'n�s-tik, &g-
Function: noun
Etymology: Greek agnOstos unknown, unknowable, from a- + gnOstos known, from gignOskein to know -- more at KNOW
: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and prob. unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god"

I suggest you look in more Lexicons; The more general definition you will get will be:
Atheist 1: "one who disbelieves or denies the existence of god or gods."

Note the "or." I disbelieve in God; however, I don't deny the possibility a God exists. Moreover, we can get technical and look at the root words.

"A" is considered the "Alpha of negation" -- a prefix.
"Theos" is latin for God.
"Theism" is the belief in God.

Literally, "Atheism" is "Not the belief in God." It would make more grammatical sense in this case to replace "Not" with "without," and hence we get "Without the belief in God."

Not that all of this matters. The second point you bring up is about agnosticism. And let this be a reminder of how far Lexicons can get off. Agnosticism, in its current meaning, comes from articles written by a writer named Huxley -- it deals with a level of knowledge (and not necessarily belief). Huxley, the inventor of its modern usage even claims "Agnosticism is not a creed, but a method!" This makes since; agnosticism -- by its root words -- means "without knowledge."

For more information about different types of atheists, I would like to point you to search for the difference between a "strong atheist" and a "weak atheist," and yes there exists a philosophical difference.

For more information about Agnosticism, I would like to point you to its author:

Agnosticism (1889)
"If any one had preferred this request to me, I should have replied that, if he referred to agnostics, they have no creed; and, by the nature of the case, cannot have any. Agnosticism, in fact, is not a creed, but a method, the essence of which lies in the rigorous application of a single principle."


To put it simply, one can be atheist and agnostic.

Well to be quite frank, an athiest would not believe it to be a demon, more or less something of a more rational manner instead.

Deep

radardog - thank you very much for that clarification. I did not realize there were variations in atheism and agnosticism just as there seem to be in christianity. I really appreciate your explanations and helping me to better understand these things. So can you tell me - in gerenal is there an atheistic or agnostic gernerally accepted view of demons and evil? I would assume the answer to be either it doesn't exist or maybe it does but we cannot determine this. But then again this may just be my lack of knowledge on the subject speaking.

Originally posted by Bleys
I'll be your first atheist subject.

* No demons, devils, boogeymen or boogeywomen
* No spirits, poltergeists or aparitions
* No dead relatives or pets
* No past life memories

BTW-no religious affiliation

Bleys - thanks so much for the clear, concise and honest reply. Duley noted.

Originally posted by badkitty
radardog - thank you very much for that clarification. I did not realize there were variations in atheism and agnosticism just as there seem to be in christianity. I really appreciate your explanations and helping me to better understand these things. So can you tell me - in gerenal is there an atheistic or agnostic gernerally accepted view of demons and evil? I would assume the answer to be either it doesn't exist or maybe it does but we cannot determine this. But then again this may just be my lack of knowledge on the subject speaking.

I think it depends on the atheist. What many forget is that being atheist doesn't mean one will deny an objective good and evil. I, personally, find Kantian ethics to be the most interesting. Others may like Hume, or Mill.

I can recommend some ethics books by those authors if you are interested (they can probably be found online). I would say that assuming 'right' and 'wrong' do not exist would not be, in the least, pragmatic; our society generally has a sense of right and wrong -- either shown through law or social distaste. So while you may deny there exists a good and evil, chances are you may want to at least act like there is.

atheist or christian, how would you know if you had experienced a deamon? and if you thought you had, how do you keep from doing it again? maybe i am a little slow but i have to say if i had stabbed myself thinking i was killing someone else, i think i would seek a higher power of some sort to keep from doing it again. i don't mean to be goofy or sound like a jerk. that is not the intent. i would really like to know if any of you have any answers.

For something to exist only takes one mind to conceive.

Originally posted by StickyG
For something to exist only takes one mind to conceive.

What does that mean exactly?

What does that mean exactly?

It means that reality is different for each individual person. So if your mind can conceive it, then it exists somewhere, if only to you.

if you could prove that overall reality is different for me then i'll believe that.

I have friends and family, including me who have all had an experience of some sort, they claim demonic or at least something spiritual.

These experiences are from my mum, my sister, one of her friends and I. I'll give you an outline of each experience.

Also all the people mentioned here are christians.

Me: I was in a hotel, woke up and saw a dark figure standing over my bed which made me very uncomfortable. Said a few Jesus things and it left.

My mum: Something was making her levitate in bed.

My sister: She was in her bed and something paralized her, she said it felt very evil. She said some Jesus things and it left her.

Sisters friend: She was in bed and something started strangling her quite violently.

Now just because I am a Christian dosn't mean I straight away believe all this to be demonic, even my experience. I look at the facts then decide.

If you notice each case occured in bed, when trying to sleep or sleeping. Out of four cases this is a common factor. So in my opinion it leave's a few possibilties.

1. These experiences were a product of our own minds, created by our preconceptions of spirituality and made real through that strange period before you fall asleep, or even when asleep.

2. Or demonic activity more often than not happens when people are drifting off to sleep, so they can keep a low cover.

I tend to believe that these were more likely products of our minds. Biblically speaking demonic manifestations were much more tangible, like human possesion and the like.

Anyways, its all just speculation, there are too many different things to consider.

i can honestly say that i have never heard of anything like that. cant say that i want to experience any of it either.

Originally posted by namehere
if you could prove that overall reality is different for me then i'll believe that.

Take all your life experiences, add to that your thoughts, ideas, and dreams since birth and just try to find someone who has followed this path in their life exactly as you have. We each live in our own realities, shaped by us. Sure there are external factors, but for the most part, who and what we are, and the realities that we perceive, are all created by each unique individual by the choices we make in life. Kinda hard to put into words. Many people erroneously believe, for something to be real, they have to be able to not only think of it, but they have to be able to see it or touch it, in other words, interact with it in a strictly material sense. But the mind is much more powerful then that. Imagination creates, and if I believe there are demons, then to me there are demons in my reality. You may consider me crazy, but in my reality, everyone else is crazy and I'm the only sane one. Hey it's my reality. Do you want the red pill or the blue pill?

cheers,

Sticky

I am an atheist, and I know other atheist who have had demonic experiences, so it doesn't just happen to Christians.

I do believe demons exist so if I ever saw one I still wouldn't believe in God.

Originally posted by StickyG
For something to exist only takes one mind to conceive.

I brought this up earlier, kind of. I can imagine a demon. So it conceptually exists. And it exists in my imagination. But I don't think that is the goal of this thread. When we assume an objective reality -- possibly one that if something exists in actuality (not conceptually) we should be able to show others through some method.