5 Myth about Islam

Originally posted by rabzdguy
Thats the thing ooze, people are following culture/traditions over the quran itself. So why need hadith? Religion should be so simple, so easy to understand. One peaceful direction for people to adhere to and represent. Wy arent we seeing this? This isnt a attempt at islam itself but as a whole, collectively, all religions dont make sense at all. God gave us free will, so who are you to question my belief? Or anyones? Do you really beleive from your heart that people will get tortured for eternity just for not blvling in allah? Allah doesnt gain or lose an atom, if people blv in him or not..so why bother?

Just trying to clear out some mis-conceptions here in ATS.

It is quiet astounding how so many people throw accusations regarding Islam, based on its bad apple. Without even reading the Quran, they open their mouth like they are automatically scholars. It is pathetic really.

It is like throwing accusations regarding Democracy based its bad fruit, hence Hitler, Bush...

reply to post by Skippy1138

Please tell me are not trying to refer to Hiroshima? That is not a valid example of "terrorism".That was done during a declared war in which-get ready- Japan attacked us FIRST.Sorry Oozy- I admire and respect your passion, but you are really floundering...

Throwing two atom bombs on innocent women and children to terrorize them in to surrender is not terrorism?

I guess 9/11 was also not terrorism right?

Kinda awkward for you to defend the murder of hundreds of thousands of innocent people (including women, children, even infants). Kinda awkward for you to defend terrorism, yet scream foul when modern terrorist use your own tactics against you.

Originally posted by SeaWind


The Qu'ran is the product of ONE MAN, Muhammad. Obviously, you believe Muhammad was channeling God.
Muslims have been brainwashed from birth that their way is the ONLY way to God.

Sure, I bet you are saying that because you angry that your women are converting to Islam. Instead of spewing your hate in this thread, maybe you should focus on the actual topic zzz.

And don't bring up the misguided Christians who believe they have the ONLY WAY. They're BOTH delusional.

edit on 18-12-2010 by SeaWind because: (no reason given)

How about you tell us what belief you have, so we can throw some insults at you and make the grounds a little more balanced.

Atheist?

Agno?

Originally posted by oozyism

No, the majority of Muslims believe, anything which goes against Quran is False.

Quran is the source of Islam for all times. What is Hadith? It is the teachings of Mohammad. We are talking about God's words verse Mohammad's words and in my book GOD will always out weigh Mohammad.

There is only one GOD. Mohammad is thy messenger. A messenger doesn't know all, after all, Mohammad was merely a human.

Considering Mohammad is the messenger from Allah you cant say his writings have no meaning. That just invalidates the entire Qu'ran. You cant have it both ways if you accept the fact Allah sent his message though him creating the Qu'ran then you must accept the fact that his teachings are equally important because Allah would not allow his message to be destroyed especially by his messenger.

I believe they call this a catch 22.Nice try but conflicts occur over the hadith by muslim sects daily to say it has no meaning is just silly. Your either woefully ignorant on Islam or purposely misleading people. I tend to believe the latter. Having lived there and studied Islam i welcome a real discussion but please lets be honest shall we.

Originally posted by dragonridr


Considering Mohammad is the messenger from Allah you cant say his writings have no meaning. That just invalidates the entire Qu'ran. You cant have it both ways if you accept the fact Allah sent his message though him creating the Qu'ran then you must accept the fact that his teachings are equally important because Allah would not allow his message to be destroyed especially by his messenger.

Once again, explain this to me, why does GOD specifically say Quran will be uncorrupted till the end of time? But never talks about Mohammad's teachings, which revolves around the culture and norm of the time.

Once again, I'm not gonna give Mohammad a GODLY status. He was merely a messenger. He wasn't different than us, he also made mistakes etc..

I believe they call this a catch 22.Nice try but conflicts occur over the hadith by muslim sects daily to say it has no meaning is just silly. Your either woefully ignorant on Islam or purposely misleading people. I tend to believe the latter. Having lived there and studied Islam i welcome a real discussion but please lets be honest shall we.

Where have I been dishonest.

You are arguing that Islam has two sources which has the same status, I'm arguing that Islam only has one source, and that is the Quran, which is GOD's words.

Even Mohammad says over and over again to follow GOD, get it>? He was simply a messenger who brought GOD's message to us (through Gabrial). We are suppose to follow GOD's message, not Mohammad's.

Once again, Mohammad was just a man.

reply to post by oozyism


If he was just a man, why the big problem if someone draws a picture of him? hmmm?

Originally posted by imperium1984
reply to post by oozyism

 

If he was just a man, why the big problem if someone draws a picture of him? hmmm?

It is not a big problem, there are just people who love him a lot, so much that they want to live exactly like Mohammad.

The way he ate, the way he spoke, the way he sat down, the way he ate, which hand he use his hand in the toilet to clean his bottom. Even which leg he would use when he get out of the toilet.

Honestly, I'm not kidding, the above is true, I'm a Muslim and I know.

What I'm trying to say, that they love him too much, this is all cultural.

This love is justified, but for them to murder someone for drawing a picture of Mohammad (no matter how offensive), is against Islam.

No where in Quran does it say we shouldn't draw Mohammad's picture, the fact is, we don't know what he looked like, we only know a small description of him, and that is from descriptions given by his companions.

reply to post by SeaWind


trust me. i know that islam is a cancer on the earth rightnow. but they're not going to defeat euro-american style secular democracy. remember, the modern secular state was designed to bury the old theocracies. the only problem we have now is all this multi-culturalism bs making it basically hate speech or ignorant to speak out against political islam the way christians spoke out against political christianity a long time ago. but there are tons of smart, peaceful muslims who want reform, and if you want to eventually defeat the radical ones, those moderate ones are your best hope.

short of genocide there is no way to stop demographics. we need to start including as many non-imperialist muslims in the discussion as possible and draw a hard line on not including aspects of islamic law in government.

reply to post by oozyism


aaaaaaaah. ok.. hence the threats of death to that cartoonist?

or the sharia law forbidding the depiction of him?

You seem completely and utterly confused with the whole religion to be honest.. taking good parts from here, and ignoring the bad parts from there.

You are beyond hope of a proper debate - you just keep falling back on "everyone is judged" or some equally small-minded idiotic comment.

I'm stopping reading now, just because your level of debate is giving me a headache. And no, this doesn't mean you have won, it simply means that I've got yet another person to add to my "thinks islam and it's laws are great but wouldn't live in Iran if you paid them" list.

Originally posted by imperium1984
reply to post by oozyism

 

okay then... same rules apply.

ALL the roadside bombs in iraq and afghanistan.
ANY bombing attempt made by someone of islam.

Seriously, to argue that islam is peaceful is just dumb. All religions have rotten eggs, sure. But when you get such a massive (and I mean MASSIVE) amount of people worldwide screaming bloody murder in the name of their god... You HAVE to admit that it's hard to see the religion as anything but peaceful.

All the roadside bombs?
Are you seriously kiiding me? It is their country and we invaded them. If someone invaded the USA i will be planting that stuff on the roadside to!!

The media has brainwashed you into thinking that all they scream is murder, because that is all they show. Have you picked up a national geographic and seen real documentary and journalism instead of what the tv shows you.

The name islam means Peace. And they are all fighting over their because there are probably about 20 US bases over their in their land, and then israel is given all weapons to kill them more and when they defend themselves you think its "bloody murder"

Wake up and smell what your shoveling

Here is the essential difference between Islam and the teachings of Jesus.


Narrated Jabir: A man from the tribe of Aslam came to the Prophet and confessed that he had committed an illegal intercourse . . . the Prophet ordered that he be stoned to death. (Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol. 8, p. 531).

The judgment was fair on legal grounds (Leviticus 20.10), but Muhammad's role can be compared with that assumed by Jesus when he was placed in a similar situation. When the Jewish doctors of the law produced a woman similarly self-condemned for adultery, Jesus immediately made her detractors examine themselves to see whether they were indeed worthy to stand as God's prosecutors, judges and executioners over her. "Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her" (John 8.7), he replied. As they all went out, convicted of their own sinfulness, he graciously pardoned the repentant woman in these comforting words:

"Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?" She said "No one, Lord". And Jesus said, "Neither do I condemn you; go, and do not sin again". John 8.10-11.

www.answering-islam.org...

Originally posted by imperium1984
reply to post by oozyism

 

aaaaaaaah. ok.. hence the threats of death to that cartoonist?

or the sharia law forbidding the depiction of him?

You seem completely and utterly confused with the whole religion to be honest.. taking good parts from here, and ignoring the bad parts from there.

You are beyond hope of a proper debate - you just keep falling back on "everyone is judged" or some equally small-minded idiotic comment.

I'm stopping reading now, just because your level of debate is giving me a headache. And no, this doesn't mean you have won, it simply means that I've got yet another person to add to my "thinks islam and it's laws are great but wouldn't live in Iran if you paid them" list.

Your ignorance is giving you a headache. You are finally starting to think, instead of letting FOX news do the thinking for you.

Seriously, no where in Quran does it say Mohammad's pictures shouldn't drawn.

Do you have any points? Or are you looking for your Panadole.

Originally posted by oozyism

Where have I been dishonest.

You are arguing that Islam has two sources which has the same status, I'm arguing that Islam only has one source, and that is the Quran, which is GOD's words.

Even Mohammad says over and over again to follow GOD, get it>? He was simply a messenger who brought GOD's message to us (through Gabrial). We are suppose to follow GOD's message, not Mohammad's.

Once again, Mohammad was just a man.

Originally posted by oozyism

It is not a big problem, there are just people who love him a lot, so much that they want to live exactly like Mohammad.

The way he ate, the way he spoke, the way he sat down, the way he ate, which hand he use his hand in the toilet to clean his bottom. Even which leg he would use when he get out of the toilet.

Honestly, I'm not kidding, the above is true, I'm a Muslim and I know.

Again you contradict yourself you say the hadith has no meaning is irrelevant even admit its out dated. Obviously your a moderate Muslim and thats fine but to say all Muslims share your beliefs is a lie. There are Muslims that believe by not following the tenants of the religion you should be punished.

Now to my point you want to claim that Muslims dont have to believe what Mohammad had to say only the Qu'ran. But again ill point out its Mohammad that claims Archangel Gabriel came to him if i remember correctly over a 26 year period (have to make sure on that been a while). So you believe that part but want to throw out everything else he said in the hadith hmmmmm do you see the contradiction im talking about now?????

Originally posted by oozyism

Your ignorance is giving you a headache. You are finally starting to think, instead of letting FOX news do the thinking for you.

Seriously, no where in Quran does it say Mohammad's pictures shouldn't drawn.

Do you have any points? Or are you looking for your Panadole.

maybe I lied about not reading anymore haha

First point: I've never watched Fox News in my life (I'm not american)
Second point: Learn to spell. Your ignorant use of the English language is absurd.
Third point: Go draw mohammed in the middle of Iran and then tell me that you're allowed to depict him.

After you've done point three, come back and tell me how it goes.

Originally posted by dragonridr


Again you contradict yourself you say the hadith has no meaning is irrelevant even admit its out dated. Obviously your a moderate Muslim and thats fine but to say all Muslims share your beliefs is a lie. There are Muslims that believe by not following the tenants of the religion you should be punished.

I'm not contradicting myself.

As I said previously, Muslims believe that what ever contradicts the Quran is wrong. Even if it is Hadith. If Muslims want to follow the Hadith over Quran, then that is their own problem, not mine, nor is it GOD's problem, nor does it effect the message (Quran).

Maybe that's why Muslims are in such a messed up situation today, look at all the suffering etc..

Now to my point you want to claim that Muslims dont have to believe what Mohammad had to say only the Qu'ran. But again ill point out its Mohammad that claims Archangel Gabriel came to him if i remember correctly over a 26 year period (have to make sure on that been a while). So you believe that part but want to throw out everything else he said in the hadith hmmmmm do you see the contradiction im talking about now?????

Nope, Quran is the source of Islam as I said before, not Hadith. What Mohammad said was important at the time, because it effected the people of the time, the culture of the time, and the norm of the time. Now adays it is a whole different story.

Once again, people who want to follow culture, that is there own problem: The Quran says, those who follow their forefathers blindly, they are wrong doers, because they will do the same wrong things their forefathers did.

The Quran is the only source of Islam, can you dispute that?

Originally posted by imperium1984


maybe I lied about not reading anymore haha

First point: I've never watched Fox News in my life (I'm not american)

US propaganda reaches every corner of the world, I bet you watch it heavily.

Second point: Learn to spell. Your ignorant use of the English language is absurd.

Sure, what ever makes you happy. Some of us don't care about spelling mate, funny, I never knew this was a spelling class.

Third point: Go draw mohammed in the middle of Iran and then tell me that you're allowed to depict him.

After you've done point three, come back and tell me how it goes.

Why shoud I do what you tell me to do, when you still haven't provided a verse which states Mohammad shouldn't be drawn.

Your failures are evident, and your attempts to change the subject is pathetic

Originally posted by oozyism

Originally posted by imperium1984


maybe I lied about not reading anymore haha

First point: I've never watched Fox News in my life (I'm not american)

US propaganda reaches every corner of the world, I bet you watch it heavily.

How much would you like to wager? I'll take any bet you have.

Still.... Why does the Quran keep telling people to kill others? (Seeing that the whole point of this thread was to counter the "myths")

Originally posted by imperium1984

Originally posted by oozyism

Originally posted by imperium1984


maybe I lied about not reading anymore haha

First point: I've never watched Fox News in my life (I'm not american)

US propaganda reaches every corner of the world, I bet you watch it heavily.

How much would you like to wager? I'll take any bet you have.

It reaches New Zealand, how much do you want to wager?

Originally posted by imperium1984
Still.... Why does the Quran keep telling people to kill others? (Seeing that the whole point of this thread was to counter the "myths")

It keeps saying kill those who are fighting you, and trying to kick you out of your land.

Or those who are attacking you, those who break their treaties, those who are trying to oppress you.

It has conditions, no where does it say to kill people without any reason as you seem to imply.