Religious Dogma is Speculation. Discuss

Defining God

When religious people preach God, they describe "him" as a "being", as a supernatural divine designer. They BELIEVE that this "GOD" intervenes in human affairs and created the universe.

This is a dangerous claim to make without evidence, here's why i think this....

An Agnostic Anti-Theist?!

Although i am an Atheist, i cannot claim to KNOW there is no "GOD".

Similarly, i cannot claim to KNOW there is a diamond buried in my back yard without investigating, without evidence.

In this sense; i am Agnostic in regards to "God" or in regards to the source/causation (if any) of the universe.

Any human who claims to know should be treated with great suspicion.

WHY is ancient dogma of man treated with respect rather than suspicion?

Why be an Anti-Theist?

I do not respect any human who claims to know without evidence. This is why i am against Theism.

I want to make people aware that children are being taught to "believe" without evidence. That critical evidence should not suffice for them to affirm a belief. Sometimes their FAITH even over-rules evidence put forward (Evolution is one example).

To be curious, to be inquizitive, to ask questions is to be human, this our pattern seeking nature, seeking reason, trying to be rational. This is why we have technology, medicine, astronomy; from testing and asking questions.

Faith and Ignorance

This is faith. And it's the exact type of unfalsifiable nonsense as Tarot Card Reading, Astrology, Psychics.

These charlatons hide behind the unfalsifiable nature of their claims and expect us to believe them on the basis of faith. This is what is ruining our intelligence and civilisation. They are actively teaching ignorance. And many are being fooled beacuse of this, and have become rather arrogant.

Again, why does this ignorance demand our respect? Should you be considered a sinner just because you challenge this ignorance?

What do you think?

Atheists, Agnostics, Deists, Theists, Pantheists - I really would appreciate your thoughts and comments and to have a polite and civil discourse here.

Thanks for reading.

Awake and Aware

The very depiction of any religion, needs to be purged. Religion in any sense, has been the main cause, historically speaking, of famine, plagues and war on this planet.

Atheism is a disbelief in deities..aka, God. This is not stating there is no God though..just that there is no actual evidence to prove or even suggest a God...there is no angel wings found, no pictures, nothing...

Agnostic means being open to "odd things" overall...a sort of stance that you will not dismiss anything, and may even have some hunches overall, but ultimately, your not going to flat out believe in anything as truth until some good evidence comes either way...professional fence sitting.

Those two titles apply to me btw.

Yes, popular speculation = religion overall. Almost all of what god loves and hates by moses was just speculation, from what god likes to smell, attributes, etc...to how he finds shellfish, peeing while standing up, and homosexuality as all abominations and evil.

As far as this thread. heh...civil discourse..come on now. you know where it will end up.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/dd2f6ae50fe4.jpg[/atsimg]

But I will participate anyhow for the lols

reply to post by awake_and_aware
awake_and_aware,

Well for one I have the evidence I need.. I've presented it many times and it is not recieved but denied. But that is each's priviledge. The Prophecy properly interpreted is the evidence. He also dwells in me and I know His Presence. He is Spirit so can't be seen but He talks to me and sometimes tells me, I told you in my Word, read it and understand. This I know is all "greek" to you and is to all unbelievers and always will be.

You are free by Him and me to choose your way. We should though all discern where it will lead.

I may have more basis for what I believe than you do, so you should not knock any like me, I don't knock you, I just present veiws.

Truthiron.

reply to post by truthiron


The problem with prophecys is that they can be adapted to anything ever.

And the only worse thing than prophecy is self fulfilling prophecy

aka: "The prophecy shows that we will rebuild this church...so...lets rebuild the church (rebuilds church). AHA, The prophecy was correct...the church has been rebuilt!"

reply to post by truthiron


Personal experience is not evidence in my eyes, it's evidence in yours and is completely subjective unless you can conclusively confirm your findnigs, irrrefutably for everyone else to see.

Otherwise why should we trust you? Why should we trust that a person can talk to the dead if he or she is not willing to demonstrate under a controlled experiment?

I agree with SaturnFX, prophecies are generally broad, open to interpretation and often invoke self-fulfilment of the religious followers of the specific doctrine of prophecy.

Originally posted by truthiron
reply to post by awake_and_aware

 

awake_and_aware,

. He also dwells in me and I know His Presence. He is Spirit so can't be seen but He talks to me and sometimes tells me, I told you in my Word,

Usually those whom " hear " voices, need to be admitted to the nearest mental institution. May want to step away from the keyboard, and take a bus to the nearest clinic?

reply to post by SaturnFX


Let's not forget, that these " prophecies " have been re-written in a book that has been altered by man, and re-published by man? So much for truth now? Especially when everything touched by man is inevitably messed up!

Originally posted by Whereweheaded

Originally posted by truthiron
reply to post by awake_and_aware

 

awake_and_aware,

. He also dwells in me and I know His Presence. He is Spirit so can't be seen but He talks to me and sometimes tells me, I told you in my Word,

Usually those whom " hear " voices, need to be admitted to the nearest mental institution. May want to step away from the keyboard, and take a bus to the nearest clinic?

I do not mean to be disrespectful, but why do you ridicule his faith?? What give´s you the right to do so??? Are you somehow "Special"??

Peace

reply to post by Seed76


Did you read my original post?

Why should faith be respected?

Do you respect Astrologists? Tarot Card Readers? "FAITH" Healers?

Why do many of these charlatons refuse to be tested in a controlled environment? Religion is in the same ball park?

Man only just found out that the Earth orbitted the Sun, why should we trust ANCIENT man that he understands and knows the causation of the universe, and that it is "GOD" (a intervening supernatural being) that has rules to follow?

Where is your proof?

Originally posted by Seed76

Originally posted by Whereweheaded

Originally posted by truthiron
reply to post by awake_and_aware

 

awake_and_aware,

. He also dwells in me and I know His Presence. He is Spirit so can't be seen but He talks to me and sometimes tells me, I told you in my Word,

Usually those whom " hear " voices, need to be admitted to the nearest mental institution. May want to step away from the keyboard, and take a bus to the nearest clinic?

I do not mean to be disrespectful, but why do you ridicule his faith?? What give´s you the right to do so??? Are you somehow "Special"??

Peace

edit on 17-12-2010 by Seed76 because: (no reason given)

I didn't ridicule his faith, I didn't even specifically make a comment to his denomination. I simply implied that by hearing voices, one must get checked out. For safety sake....


And yes..I'm special...I'm a very special person!

reply to post by awake_and_aware


My post reply was not meant for you. It was meant for another poster.

Peace

reply to post by Seed76


No problem, my questions still stand for anyone else willing to answer.

Peace back to you.

reply to post by awake_and_aware

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by truthiron

 

Personal experience is not evidence in my eyes, it's evidence in yours and is completely subjective unless you can conclusively confirm your findnigs, irrrefutably for everyone else to see.

Well, to believe should be personal matter and no organized institutional matter. Personal experience may not be evidence considering that it should convince other people, but it can convince individual oneself.

Way I see it, all subjective experiences should remain subjective because their objectivization leads only to schism and discrimination. Numinous experiences (religious, spiritual) in my opinion are encounters with unconscious contents of one's psyche. Jung has demonstated and explained this pretty well. Because unconscious archetypes common to all mankind are somewhat common, it is no surprise that those with little understanding has made religions out of them.

-v

reply to post by Whereweheaded

I didn't ridicule his faith, I didn't even specifically make a comment to his denomination. I simply implied that by hearing voices, one must get checked out. For safety sake....

No you did not have made a specifically comment about his denomination, although his denomination is obvious. But you just took only a small part of his post, complete out of context and used it as a joke.

PS:" We are all Special". After all behind all the labels we are still Humans.

Peace

reply to post by v01i0


So you're playing the subjective card?

Suppose it's ok for Hitler to spread racial hatred, lets just keep ourselves to ourselves, and ourselves unto our children to follow in our footsteps.

Atheism is a lack of a belief but it certainly isn't a schism and we don't discriminate, we challenge, ask questions, ask for reason. We want freedom of speech, we certainly arn't discriminating someones beliefs. But when it spreads like a virus of prejuduce, this is where we have to intervene, just as we intervened in Hitler's agenda.

So again i ask, what was your point?

reply to post by Whereweheaded
Whereweheaded,

Ha, ha, you make me laugh as it is plain you know nothing of what I have and do experience. But you go on, it will be seen soon enough who needs to be checked out and it won't be by crazy men.

And some think I'm of some denomination and I am not, that is an imposibility, I see them all corrupt.

I am on the other team, thank you.

Truthiron.

reply to post by truthiron


Can we leave personal experiences out of this debate? They have nothing of substance to offer in this discussion.

I'm sure we can discern voices in someones head as a few of the possibilities:-

1) The person is suffering a mental breakdown or defect.
2) The person is intoxicated with a substance or naturally dillusional.
3) The person has people in the same room that he/she is unware of, they are whispering/saying things.
4) The person is just answering his own questions and talking to himself.
5) "God"
6) Headphones left in ears with talk show on (LOL)

Again, this has nothing to offer in the arena of debate, so we shall move on.

My question: Should these bizarre religions that opress and cause prejuduce (based on no evidence) be respected? Should a belief without evidence be respected? or should it be challenged?

Any other arena of debate, medicine, politics, football, someone's "beliefs" can be challenged? What makes religion or "faith" any different from reasonable discourse and discussion?

Originally posted by truthiron
reply to post by Whereweheaded

 

Whereweheaded,

Ha, ha, you make me laugh as it is plain you know nothing of what I have and do experience. But you go on, it will be seen soon enough who needs to be checked out and it won't be by crazy men.

And some think I'm of some denomination and I am not, that is an imposibility, I see them all corrupt.

I am on the other team, thank you.

Truthiron.

Then why are you even posting religious quotes? Why are you even here? If you are of no denomination, why preach to us?