ATS, Hate, and the Future

While reading through some threads this morning it occurred to me that we at ATS are simply witnessing our own localized version of what has becoming a worsening global problem. The problem of hatred and bigotry exists everywhere in the world and it has pretty much since man first walked the Earth.

There are a few causes for it. One, as many of my fellow members have pointed out, is the fear of anything different. That's a very broad fear because it can be so many things. Fear of a different skin color, a different language, a different faith, a different choice of clothing. The root is the same though. "You are different from me and that makes me uncomfortable." I know we all like to say that it's now 2010 and we've moved past that sort of thing, but that is false. Yes, some people have, but whether we like it or not, the vast majority of us (The HUMAN race) still have the fear of things that are not like us.

The second cause of bigotry and hatred is the one that I believe is hurting us, the ATS community, the most. This is also a problem that has probably been going on as long as we've been on this planet. The problem is the terrible habit that people have of blaming an entire group of people for the actions of one (or a few). I'm going to speak very plainly to illustrate this point so please forgive me if I offend anyone. The main topic that brings out the most ignorant and vulgar statements ever posted on ATS is the Israel/Palestine situation. This is not new. I've been here for 8 years as a member and more prior as a reader and it's always been like that. The examples are always the same. The fact is, it is ignorant to throw an entire group of people together based on the actions of some members of that group.

It is appalling to me to see a member post about all Muslims being terrorists because that member has chosen to take the actions of extremist groups and lay the blame on the group as a whole.

It is appalling to me to see a member post about all Jews being sneaky criminals who think gentiles are animals because that member has chosen to take the statements of extremist clerics and lay the blame on the group as a whole.

I could go on, but I hope the point has been made. There is no excuse for this sort of behavior. I can not say "It's 2010! That behavior is in the past!" because it isn't. What I say is "It's 2010! How can that behavior still exist? How can there be people who are so willing to cast MILLIONS of their fellow people as villains because of the actions of what are upon closer examinations very small - though vocal - groups."

The third cause of the hatred and bigotry of course is the one that I don't think we'll ever solve: stupidity. There are those people who will always look for someone to blame for the world's ills. You know the type don't you? The person who has never even made an effort to interact with any of the groups he supposedly hates. Yet he can concretely tell you that it's all because of the Blacks, or it's all because of the Asians. He just knows. Maybe he heard it from his parents? Maybe at neighborhood meetings? Wherever it is from, that person is cursed by his own ignorance and for those of us here, that person is the hardest to reach.

I know some of you will look at my profile and see that it says New York City and that might help you to understand why this issue is so important to me. I live in a city that has representation from every race and religion. Whether it's residents or tourists, I have been blessed to interact with virtually every culture in the world. In many ways I say the same is true for us here. ATS, as many of you have experienced, is comprised of members from all over the world. We don't care where you're from, or which God you pray to (if any) or what color your skin is. All we care about is hearing from you. ATS is in its own way a global city just like my hometown is and we have members from so many different walks of life.

We should not let the three things I mentioned above take over our community. We should not hate other members because they're different, we should embrace the opportunity to exchange ideas with someone who is different.

We should not allow ourselves to blame large groups of people for the misconduct of extreme elements of their communities, we should embrace the opportunity to learn that the extremists are NOT the majority. Talk to a Muslim member, talk to a Jewish member. Learn about them from THEM, not from news reports that are carefully designed to make us live in fear.

Lastly we should not let ignorance dictate the tone and spirit of this forum. Yes, it's 2010 and we have failed to move past bigotry in the world. But a global community such as ATS is a prime place to defeat that ignorance that has plagued us. The internet allows people to communicate who never have had that chance before. Set the hatred aside and learn from each other.

I firmly believe that if people can battle those causes of bigotry, at least in our community, we might one day be able to say that hate has become a thing of the past. When you see a member posting with hate, don't answer in kind, but rather help him. He has a problem. Maybe we can't fix his problem, but we can, as a community, show that we don't work like that here.

I firmly believe that one day the members of this community as a whole will realize something that I learned by living in NYC: that we're really not all that different after all.

Thank you for reading my thoughts.

Amen DJ. Words to live by...no joke.


But then again, I wonder how many of the posters that have posted these bigoted views are the very same that infiltrate all of these sites? That's just the conspiracy theorist in me.

Anyhow, thank you for speaking your mind, because your words do indeed ring true.




Peace be with you.

-truthseeker

Now you know why Djarums is an Admin here.

I can't add anything to that other than my complete support.

ATS is not the place for ignorant hate, learned hate, or fear induced hate. PERIOD.

Springer...

reply to post by Djarums



Excellent points all, my hope for 2011 is that most on ATS will take your words to heart. I am here because of the diversity and getting to know people from all over the world.

I also live in an area where people from most every countries also live, much like New York. We have the largest Arab community in the U.S. and for the most part no problems.

I feel honored to know and have friends from most of those communities, on a business but more importantly on a personal level.

Thanks for posting this reminder to all of us.

reply to post by Djarums


I wish this was required reading for all members. That is an absolutely excellent post.

What a refreshing post to read. Well said and very true. All of the trivialities you mentioned mean nothing when you realize that we are all simply just humans sharing a rock. If more people felt this way, that we are not really that different in essence, the world might be a much nicer rock to share.

And some very fine thoughts they were DJ
I for one don't know HOW to reply because you mentioned everything

I completely agree.
This "hate" has now seemed to influence ATS...it's always been here underlying but recently, it's dominated a large amount of threads. Hate clouds member's minds, their thoughts. People hate what they don't understand...their cultures...their ideas...anything.
And what they don't understand leads to fear...which spreads around like a disease.
What's more...it seems as people want to implement fear and we just gush it up....not understanding it, fighting against it.

ATS is meant to be DIFFERENT.
Why were we drawn to ATS?
To deny ignorance.
By being influenced by the very points that DJ mentioned, we are not doing exactly that.

I hate how many people make 'assumptions,' in the wrong way.
If you don't understand something, go and TRY to learn about it...and then you are entirely valid with whatever opinion you end up with.
Don't make assumptions without knowing about the subject matter.
But don't be racist. You have no right whatsoever.

For example, after 9/11, people see Muslims in a different light. Hell, they see brown coloured people in a different light. They look at us as if we're going to "blow up" anything we touch...and stay well away..that fear, although may not be said, it's clearly there from some of the experiences I've been though. One can't take the actions of a single person and blame it onto a whole faith, a whole population.
That's just stupidity (as DJ mentioned).
Let's see it like this. If an American, a British, or whatever ethnic origin you may be from was an extremist terrorist...would you blame/hate all from that same culture?
No you wouldn't...because you know it's true since you're a direct contradiction to it.
So why do the same?

Positive thoughts will always lead people onto the better path.
Learn about the things we don't know, don't be ignorant.
Overcome your fears.
Try to understand.

People may differ by religion, culture, countries...but strip those thoughts...we are just b] humans sharing a rock.
We need to reduce the negative approaches found on this board...and we can all help in a small way
Do not hate, instead live, laugh...love...
We are all here to learn together...not to fight...

Gawd...I feel like a hippie now

Once again DJ, amazing, amazing, amazing thoughts

I couldn't agree more Dj.

And I especially want to repeat your observation that using the exception to define a rule for anything is one of the most absurd fallacies of logic imaginable.

And sadly, I see that COMMONLY here. Half of my time debating is spent pointing this fallacy out to people, and generally only getting blank-stares in return.

DJARUMS


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/874981408243.png[/atsimg]

This title is definitely not wasted on you !

Now I'll keep my fingers crossed and hope people will actually try...

reply to post by Djarums


A man reaps what he sows.

ATS is not the place for ignorant hate, learned hate, or fear induced hate. PERIOD.

And yet they are rampant here, more so than on any other site on this scale that I frequent (admittedly, not all that many).

I only joined this site in 2007, but even then, only three years ago, aggressively titled and/or just ignorant threads seemed to be in the minority. I don't know what happened, but approximately two years later it started going downhill, and fast.

Today, ATS is just a loud, abrasive space where hair-rising ignorance and plain old stupidity abound and thrive.

It's the truth.
And the fact that so many of the most articulate and intelligent, respectful posters have long since left this site - or are about to leave it - proves it.

(As for me, I used to check what's new every night.
Now, a week or two can fly by without even remembering it; and when I do, I am quickly turned off by what I see.)

It could be prevented; but it would require enforcing much more stringent rules - or even just doing away with "reward" points, stars, whatever, all the competitive stuff that juveniles (and they only) love so much.
That would probably entail sacrificing the "chaff", which, I am sure, is the main source of revenue.

It was true then and is true now.

Im not gonna come on here and rail against some one for being stupid, or ignorant, or a different creed, or color.

We are us there is no them.

I think political correctness, run amok is causing people to become resentful, for instance,

Muslims and Christians alike find this, ridiculous,

The charity's politically-correct move triggered an avalanche of criticism and mockery last night - from Christians and Moslems.

Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk...

Although I do agree certain human rights issues should be addressed, I don't think we should just look the other way and knowledge is power.

Oh god not another one of these threads…

Do we need a monthly reaffirmation of how bad and rampant racism/bigotry is on AboveTopSecret? I mean there are already five threads on this subject listed below and surely there are more:

www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Our world has racism, racists happen to visit ATS. There is nothing we can really do to end racism, the racists have to end it themselves. Like an addict no one can stop the habit for them it is up to the individual. So these threads condemning racism that pop up every couple of months does absolutely nothing except tell all us non-racists what we already know.

Instead of creating a thread condemning racism, which you could have easily contributed to any of the others, why not put your privileges to use and lead a crusade against racism and bigotry here on ATS? Get the staff to step up and no longer be lenient on bigots, if they see a bigoted post remove it and give that poster a warning. As of right now there are far too many posts floating around ATS with bigoted statements, I believe that would be an excellent way to end racism here.

Crack down on those members. Take drastic steps, maybe a temporary ban for any blatantly bigoted statement.

Just my thoughts.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
I think political correctness, run amok is causing people to become resentful, for instance,

Absolutely!
(And with good reason, I might add.)

This phenomenon itself should be addressed, as well as any other relevant issue, both personal or political.

But tolerating self-righteous ignorance or even just plain immaturity, not to mention lacking manners, only adds to the problem. It does nothing whatsoever towards resolving it.

As I said before, let this site run without any reward points, stars and any other competitive stuff for a few months - and see how many of the loudmouth kiddies (of all ages) keep coming here...

It should be very, very easy to implement.

The suns rays that shine on your face,shine on mine too.
The moon you gaze at during the night,i also gaze at too.
The water that falls for you to drink,i drink it too.
The wind that blows in your face,blows in mine too.
You live on one side of the globe,i live on the other.
We are all one.

reply to post by Misoir

I think frequent reminders are needed..From different points of views.
Especially with new members showing up constantly (which is a good thing)
something about fingertips on keyboard can create some sort of electronic bravado.

You'd rarely see people talking face to face like this. Unless there was alcohol involved. Chemical bravado I guess.

Take a look at other discussion boards to see an example of what we are trying NOT to be.
It rough out there...And if you have an out of the box idea...they try to put you back in your box, and seal it with duct tape. That is the REAL world of ignorance. Trash talk. You can get that anywhere.

We're supposed to be different here. That's the purpose..A safe zone of dialog.
Even if the subject is polarizing. People can talk TO each other about it, rather than talk AT each other about it.

We're all trying to deny the ignorance of the world here. We're supposed to be in this together. TOGETHER.

That false bravado can be saved up, and unleashed somewhere else, where it's the norm.

Other than that, I completely agree with you.

Mis

I'm sure DJ and the rest of the staff take action against many 'racists.'
And to be honest, I think they are taking action through threads like this..although it may be a different approach.

Thing is, those threads you mentioned get buried in the forum. As space said, new members are constantly arriving and wouldn't have seen them...and probably wouldn't go through all of the forums to find it...or paddle through the threads...

Repeating things gets people to remember it rather than going out of someone's ear.

I personally think that this thread was needed and I'm glad DJ did post his thoughts.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by spacedoubt


But I find ATS very negative and divisive in many ways, and I have since I joined,

add confusion, rewriting history, finger pointing,

How often have you seen liberals concede to conservatives, or a Christians concede to atheist, or vice versa?

When you are confronted by being called a bigot because you dislike the stoning of women in Iran, it makes me wonder what the other persons true agenda is, as well as they may wonder about mine.

People getting angry with one another over disinformation and fairy tales, wild.

Originally posted by Springer
Now you know why Djarums is an Admin here.

I can't add anything to that other than my complete support.

ATS is not the place for ignorant hate, learned hate, or fear induced hate. PERIOD.


Springer...

edit on 12-17-2010 by Springer because: (no reason given)

I wholeheartedly agree, except if its hatred of x factor judges, (jkg), im glad the OP posted this ive noticed a few threads recently referring to 'any jews on here' or 'any jews reading this' and found the tone of them very uncomfortable. We're all different regardless of colour and religion, not all welsh people enjoy the company of sheep yknow.