Whats in a name, Satan, Lucifer and the rest?

Well, both Dante's Inferno and Paradise Lost contain valid symbolism.

Although I'm sure that the works of Dante Alighieri are superior to those of Milton's.


Anyhow, to explain very simply Who Lucifer Is; let us say that according to the Gnostic teachings:


Christus-Lucifer = The Logos or Cosmic Christ

Lucifer = The Shadow of the Christ

Shaitan = An aspect of Lucifer becomes trapped in Klipoth ("empty shells", hell), thus becoming Satan


Now I'm also sure that I've here both over-simplified and over-conceptualized this aspect of the Gnostic doctrine; however, what is written above is more or less the gist of the Kabbalistic explanation of Lucifer.


See as well my previous posts in this very thread, for links to further Gnostic teachings on Lucifer.

Wow. Nice researching dude. Very well thought out. Gives people (me) a lot to think about. And shows how the average person is misleaded in terms of what and how words and titles are used. Gratz

Isn't there something in the Tarot about the Devil being a reflection of yourself or something like that?

reply to post by Cesearesque

The 15th Arcanum of the Tarot: Passion (The Devil) the Hebrew Letter Samech

reply to post by LUXUS


Just because someone might be confused about a title, that doesn't mean every name used for historical and/or fabled people isn't really a name. Regarding Merlin and King Arthur, there is almost no actual data on those people; everything is anecdotal, and stating that Merlin was a title is simply guesswork.

As for Satan/Lucifer - two actual names for the same being. Yes, a single being. Lucifer was the top archangel. Then, he let pride get the best of him, resulting in one really big fall. He was after this called Satan. Still is. That isn't a generic title, and there is a real person (not human) with that name. Fallen angel. No, he isn't some equal-but-opposite to God; God created him, and he's never going to be equal.

Originally posted by puzzledtruther
reply to post by LUXUS

 

hmmm just reading your post is very interesting and intuitive but the thing ive been thinking about and wondering if you can help me with is if you scramble the word satan you get guess what SANTA do you have any thoughts on this ???? good post by the way

OOO, not to hijack the thread, but good catch! Well, the thread is about "what's in a name" after all, so maybe this isn't too off track!

Did some reading many years back, when we still owned actual book-form encyclopedias, on the possible historical person of "Santa". Interesting reading. The fellow focused on most seemed to have no known date of death. Is that creepy, or what?? This is the one historians believed to be the "actual St. Nick". On that note, Satan is also referred to as "Old Nick". Double creepy!

As for this being related to Christmas, Santa Clause (by any name) actually can take away from the actual purpose of Christmas, which is to celebrate the birth of Jesus. So, in that sense, a Satanic influence would make sense. Besides which, some guy sneaking into homes, and having the kids sit on his lap, is more than a little creepy, IMO.

Originally posted by Schrödinger
reply to post by Saurus

 

Yep that is a very plausible argument.

It is obvious to me at least, that the church vilified any other form of belief, and took control of humanities ancient spiritual and gnostic learnings. And monopolized the contact to God. No longer was your body your temple, and the triad of the family (son, mother and father) of any use if you wanted salvation. No you had to go to their church, and talk to their priest, in order to talk to god. which is a very funny oxymoron to me

No church I attend requires talking to a priest. The CC did that, but that isn't Biblical. In the Bible, when Jesus died, the veil in the Temple was rent. The veil was to separate the "Holy of Holies", where before that, only the priests could go, to be in the presence of God. Through accepting Jesus, though, He took away that need for a mediator.

Originally posted by King Seesar
reply to post by LUXUS

 

I think you forgot a key name Anti-Christ, what you say about the word Devil is the most prevalent in my eyes in the Bible it speaks of many Anti-Chrits which one could also correlate to many Devils....
[snip]

The Bible refers to antichrists (small a), and the Antichrist (large A, and thus a proper name/title). Small a refers to any that teach things against Jesus Christ and His teachings. The Antichrist refers to a real personage, that will be in power during the End Times, most likely possessed by Satan.

Originally posted by LUXUS
reply to post by kallisti36

 

The point of my post was to really make clear to people that Satan is a title and not one person and not even necessarily an evil person (unless you want to think of David and God himself as being evil). I also wanted to bring to peoples attention that Lucifer is not necessarily a bad person and by definition is one who brought knowledge which advanced human evolution.
[snip]
[snip]... could be Lucifer being the one who revealed the secrets to humans.

The question has been asked a few times why do secret society's look fondly upon Lucifer, the answer is he is seen as someone who brought humans out of the darkness of Ignorance. [snip]

edit on 18-12-2010 by LUXUS because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-12-2010 by LUXUS because: (no reason given)

That's exactly what he wants you to believe. The old game. Do you recall that the Bible tells us that Satan (no longer Lucifer; he lost that name when he fell, out of pride) tempted Eve to eat the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil? One of two trees (yes, two) that they were told not to eat the fruit of. The other was the Tree of Life.

Indeed, he "gave knowledge" to Mankind, but it wasn't good knowledge, nor was this done out of any intention to help people. It was done out of malice. Satan wanted to mess up what God had created, and to lead people from God, because Satan wanted to BE God. That was the entire point.

Since then, Satan has done all he can to convince people that he's the "good guy", or that he isn't real at all. Sadly, many people believe the lie. He weaves truth into his lies, making them look prettier. This is an ages old tactic. You seem, overall, to be a pretty sensible and thoughtful person; think about what I have written?

reply to post by LUXUS


As far as i am aware..

SATAN...Hebrew term meaning THE ACCUSER.

LUCIFER...Latin/Greek term meaning LIGHT-BRINGER which actually refers to the Sun as the morning star not Venus as some would suggest.

JESUS..Name given to the Archetype at the Council of Nicaea in AD325, the British contingent at the council (Druidic) put forward the name HESUS, the Greeks of course ZEUS,there were many others but to make this quick they all ultimately refer to THE SUN.

CHRIST..Egyptian(Khemit) term refering to HORUS KRST the anointed one,KRST,KRESTUS,CHRIST..A term meaning Anointed one.

The soul re-integrated with the Universe....as part and parcel of the Universe...is THE GODHEAD.

All religions were about re-establishing the connection to that which surrounds us,but somehow the message has been lost and we are left with names and terms not of our time.

Cosmic...

Originally posted by JoshNorton
[snip]But, of course, nowhere in the bible does it say Lucifer is Satan. That's all pulp fiction from the likes of Dante's Inferno and Milton's Paradise Lost, both written well over a thousand years after the bible. Yet here are all these christians taking those versions of "the fall" as gospel!

Actually, it's pretty clear that Lucifer is Satan, according to the Bible. Look in Ezekiel and Isaiah, for starters. Plus, I am Christian, and have never read those works; my knowledge of Satan (formerly Lucifer) came from the Bible, nowhere else.

Originally posted by Cosmic4life
reply to post by LUXUS

 

As far as i am aware..

SATAN...Hebrew term meaning THE ACCUSER.

LUCIFER...Latin/Greek term meaning LIGHT-BRINGER which actually refers to the Sun as the morning star not Venus as some would suggest.

JESUS..Name given to the Archetype at the Council of Nicaea in AD325, the British contingent at the council (Druidic) put forward the name HESUS, the Greeks of course ZEUS,there were many others but to make this quick they all ultimately refer to THE SUN.

CHRIST..Egyptian(Khemit) term refering to HORUS KRST the anointed one,KRST,KRESTUS,CHRIST..A term meaning Anointed one.

The soul re-integrated with the Universe....as part and parcel of the Universe...is THE GODHEAD.

All religions were about re-establishing the connection to that which surrounds us,but somehow the message has been lost and we are left with names and terms not of our time.

Cosmic...

Quite a collection of non-Biblical lies you have going there. The sources for that information are incorrect, and any good research would show you this. Satan is indeed the term for "the accuser", meaning THE enemy, the fallen angel that took a third of the others with him. Lucifer is the name that being held before his fall, and that name was taken from him. Jesus is simply a different pronunciation of Yeshua, and it has nothing to do with Zeus; never did. Christ is from the Greek Χριστός (Khristós), meaning "the anointed one". Not from an Egyptian word. FACTS. Not anti-Christian dogma, but simple facts.

Oh, I have to add, no combination of souls with the universe (assuming such a thing was even possible, will ever become God. We are not God, and never will be. That was the mistake Satan made, that lead to his fall. People should be careful not to make the same error. The consequences are quite serious, and eternal.

And Christ means Messiah or "anointed one" also. Jesus is the greek version of Joshua or Yeshua in hebrew. Most names have meaning. For example the last names representing so and so the son of -------------- or so and so from the city of ----------- or the last name based on their trade; smith for blacksmith, chandler for candle maker and so on.

reply to post by XLR8R

From what I have read and studied on Modern Wicca, it is not exactly "Nature Worship," meaning "the worship of Nature," no what it means is: We see the God, and the Goddess within Nature, actually within everything there is. this is a popular misconception, as most people are simply too afraid to study up on anything not Christian oriented. The Church is also known to severely warn about the study of anything "occult," and Wicca is bundled up within that.

Also Caeser meaning Emporer from which was derived the more modern Kaiser. There are lots of examples.

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes

Originally posted by JoshNorton
[snip]But, of course, nowhere in the bible does it say Lucifer is Satan. That's all pulp fiction from the likes of Dante's Inferno and Milton's Paradise Lost, both written well over a thousand years after the bible. Yet here are all these christians taking those versions of "the fall" as gospel!

Actually, it's pretty clear that Lucifer is Satan, according to the Bible. Look in Ezekiel and Isaiah, for starters. Plus, I am Christian, and have never read those works; my knowledge of Satan (formerly Lucifer) came from the Bible, nowhere else.

Which would explain your current misinterpretation, try looking outside of the Bible and you may discover it's true origins.
I am not knocking the Bible, it contains many wisdoms, but you should know that it is not to be read literally, it is a collection of allegories.
You should also be aware that over centuries of translations and re-translations some parts have become confused.
Lucifer is not Satan as Satan literally means "The Accuser", it is a term not a name.
You believe in Angels and Demons..the Hegelian Dialectic...
Try the 3rd way...think outside the box.

Cosmic...

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes


I notice that you have just made me a foe....

How very.......Christian.....of you.

Judged and Condemned me in 30 seconds flat,nice.

I am not your foe nor will i ever be.

Cosmic...

Originally posted by Schrödinger
reply to post by Saurus

 

Yep that is a very plausible argument.

It is obvious to me at least, that the church vilified any other form of belief, and took control of humanities ancient spiritual and gnostic learnings. And monopolized the contact to God. No longer was your body your temple, and the triad of the family (son, mother and father) of any use if you wanted salvation. No you had to go to their church, and talk to their priest, in order to talk to god. which is a very funny oxymoron to me

My thoughts exactly. I have a rather old book on the Templars, and it details pretty good how the Church gained power in those dark days, and once they had power, they took steps to maintain that power. They did this by demonizing all other religious belief, bunching all other God/Goddesses into one bag of evil, and labeling all woman are evil, and tempters of men. Then the Church set out to murder anyone and everyone who know about this, attaching a label that struck fear into the hearts of a backward people, "witch." The original word (wicce) means "one who is wise," I take it, one who knows how to birth children, animal husbandry. It also means to, "to curve, bend," "to bend and shape the threads of reality." The Church took the words "sorcerer, wizard" and used them in conjunction with witches, wise women, and even though the words were originally used in connection with a Mage, or Magi. You will remember that it was three "Magi" who traveled to see the baby Jesus in the Bible story. In essence, anyone who is wise on the ways of the world could be called a witch. but anyone can clearly see how the Church labels anything they do not like, and then the thing becomes the label. Satan, Lucifer, Any other God=Evil Incarnate. Backward thinking of a backward and ignorant people.

reply to post by LUXUS


That is exactly the point I was attempting to make with the Jesus/Lucifer thread. Jesus, (or whatever his name was) and Lucifer, (or whatever his name was) were of the Elohim Race, which I take as a race of Extraterrestrials from an unknown place or dimension. They were either brothers, or one and the same, and neither came, or is going to come, and save us - or destroy us. The "saving" has to be or own doing. We are here on Earth to learn how to be a Higher Spirit. This can never be accomplished by worshiping anything, or sitting on one's laurels waiting to be saved.

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by LUXUS

 

That is exactly the point I was attempting to make with the Jesus/Lucifer thread. Jesus, (or whatever his name was) and Lucifer, (or whatever his name was) were of the Elohim Race, which I take as a race of Extraterrestrials from an unknown place or dimension. They were either brothers, or one and the same, and neither came, or is going to come, and save us - or destroy us. The "saving" has to be or own doing. We are here on Earth to learn how to be a Higher Spirit. This can never be accomplished by worshiping anything, or sitting on one's laurels waiting to be saved.

As to whether the Elohim were extra-terrestrial i have my doubts about that, i gravitate towards the previous civilization hypothesis, Atlantians = Elohim.

The last part however i totally agree with, we are the Captains of our own ships, we are here to realize the potential within.

Cosmic...