Decriminalise all drugs, says ex-minister Bob Ainsworth

Originally posted by christina-66
reply to post by Pakd-on-mystery

 

You are very seriously missing the point. One of the major reasons for kids starting to take drugs is the fact that they are illegal. They feel like wee rebels. If you take away the rebellion factor - which is what the minister is getting at - you remove the mystique. Result - the kids are not interested in taking any of them.

They've been feeding bull propaganda for generations now - one lie - and the kids don't believe a word of anything else. Of course some drugs (especially the latest chemical comounds are extremely dangerous) but also - alcohol is the WORST drug to detox from. Now how many alcoholic 16 year olds do you see?

Cigarettes are legal too, but does not stop kids from smoking, Lighter fluid and nitrous oxide are legal, yet also consumed..
well, I've seen alot of alcoholic 16 year olds. Research the subject, I live in germany, and almost every week there are reports in the news about 14,15, 16 year old kids being found lying in their own vomit with an alcohol intoxication.

Theres just no way the harder class A drugs will ever be legalized, this may be a very small move toward legalizing cannabis.

But if they legalise drugs, where will all those gangs get their income from? Robberies? Work?

And if they turn straight, there will be less need for police - what will all those ex-cops do?

I don't know... those law enforcement officers and bureaucrats get paid a good wage and then they put it back into the economy. Won't this negatively affect the economy? Is that something we really need during these tough times?




I'm bad.

reply to post by Pakd-on-mystery

...Drugs should not be taken by anyone no matter how "pure", they clog your mind and conclude in loosing reality.....

I agree that taking drugs is as stupid as you can get. But what is the reality?

As I showed in the post above, the police have no intention of going after the big Drug Lords - it could get them killed. They have already PROVED they rather wait till most of the drug is sold and confiscate the money. Heck they do not even bother ARRESTING the pusher. Shake him down for the cash and let him go so they can shake him down in the future is the police moto. They are too lazy to bother to get the search warrant needed to actually pursue the case in court! Our courts are too clogged to even bother processing the number of pushers and addicts they catch.

I just talked to the Prosecuting Attorney in my town about a theft of a semi tractor and trailer. The guy, with four convictions including attempted murder faces - wait for it - a couple months of PROBATION - no jail time! Is it any wonder the cops and prosecuting Attorneys don't bother putting any effort into anything but murder cases? (The attorney's words)

Meanwhile we have all the "collateral" damage - theft, gang wars and killings.

So WHY are we keeping it illegal??? So the cops can rake in the money, the Drug Lords can rake in the money and the rest of us get robbed and our kids get hooked?

Is that what you want to continue??

What happens if it is legal? First it gets taxed. Second if someone gets hooks and wants out they can go to a clinic and get help. Third the drugs available would be clean and not as dangerous. And fourth, drugs would lose the mystic and draw caused by them being illegal. Hopefully it would also unclog the court system.

Making Alcohol legal hasn't been the end of the world. I doubt making drugs, gambling and prostitution legal would be either.

The United States has the highest documented incarceration rate in the world. Isn't it about time we did something about that?

reply to post by Pakd-on-mystery


That does not make them alcoholics - that makes them binge drinkers. Please note that the examples you give are of kids taking these substances when they're still in the realms of illegality for them. Did you see the figures I posted re methadone addiction in Scotland - half a million out of a population of 5 million people. Methadone addicts are only the ones who have come forward for 'help'. There are many more addicts than that. The problem is chronic.

A new approach is absolutely requred.

I dont know if many here have been to holland where cannabis is legal, but even though it is legal over there you still get alot of street sellers. Yes it will make a little more money for the government, but it certainly wont solve the problem.

reply to post by Catch_a_Fire


In Holland they have far fewer addicts by far than we have in Britain.

Remove the mystique. Remove the need for kids to go and 'score' with some pretty unsavoury characters they wouldn't otherwise meet. Let them go into a shop. Lets not criminalise otherwise law abiding citizens because the like to smoke cannabis.

There are a myriad of reasons to legalise drugs.

Originally posted by christina-66
reply to post by Pakd-on-mystery

 

That does not make them alcoholics - that makes them binge drinkers. Please note that the examples you give are of kids taking these substances when they're still in the realms of illegality for them. Did you see the figures I posted re methadone addiction in Scotland - half a million out of a population of 5 million people. Methadone addicts are only the ones who have come forward for 'help'. There are many more addicts than that. The problem is chronic.

A new approach is absolutely requred.

I agree, it does not make them alcoholic, yet there is a very high rate of kids that do get addicted over here. to be honest, i have not thought of it that way, but I believe that the consumation is caused half by the illegality for them such as you say, but I also believe that the mainstream media takes drugs as alcohol or cigarettes too easy. If kids see people all over TV drinking alcohol, or smoking and having the time of their life, they a very likely to want to get into that state of mind, because they do not see the danger.
Children do not see the long term damages caused by drug use, where as Adults do see it.
They see their parents drink or smoke and don't see any danger in doing the same.

Unfortunately I think that the only approach that would help getting rid of drugs, would be rehabillitizing every addict in the world, yet that can not be done.
Because like I said earlier, addicts discrediting the dangerous effects caused by drugs lead to people possibly believing them.

reply to post by christina-66


It was reported in March 2010 that 22,000 people in Scotland are currently prescribed Methadone, where on earth did you get the figure of 500,000 because I assure you that is complete and utter nonsense!

why is it it's always EX-something telling these things & none of them never ever do anything about the things they are so pro or against (be it drugs or something else what is considered a 'taboo' subject) when they are in the office?

Originally posted by Pakd-on-mystery
Drugs should not be taken by anyone no matter how "pure", they clog your mind and conclude in loosing reality.

edit on 16/12/2010 by Pakd-on-mystery because: (no reason given)

Are you, by chance, an artistically minded person? Do you paint, draw, play music, engage in philosophical or spiritual discussion with others? Because I seriously doubt you are with comments like these.

It is not up to you or anyone else to tell someone that drugs are bad for them. I can tell just by your posts that you clearly lack any significant experience in the recreational drug field.

And for your information, I know what the rules are on ATS about drugs. I'm trying to follow them the best I can because I don't like my posts getting censored, and trust me, I am holding back.

Despite what you think, there are kids and teens here.
Opposite to you said, I have never seen anything good come out of drug use. Please explain how drugs shaped your providence in a "very good" way?
Your chemical makeup is also changed by marijuana and every other drug out there.
I did not say pharmaceutical drugs are any better.....you must have missed the line "a drug is a drug"
I am not discrediting drugs, quite the opposite actually.

I've shadowed ATS for at least 6 years, and I am 20 now, so I know first hand that there are youths that look at ATS. But guess what? Your posts are really just beacons for them to take a second look at my posts, so you're creating your own problem.

And I said province, not "providence"; there's a big difference

Marijuana is a herb. It grows from the ground. Natives have smoked it for thousands of years. Why? Because it shifts you train of thought. Here's my description: Normal, sober, thought is like looking through iron sights on a rifle. You can vaguely see your target along with anything in the peripheral (so in other words, you vaguely analyze the entire situation in front of you). Thinking with THC is like looking through a scope; you can see every detail about your target and analyze it in great depth while blocking out unnecessary information in your periphery.

So in other words, marijuana really helps with focusing. It improves comprehension of music and art in general. It is a spiritual drug because it gives you insight, not only into the world around you, but into yourself as well.

And face it, drugs are everywhere. Coffee is loaded with caffeine, which is rough on the human structure and can even kill a person. Endorphins in sex are drugs. MSG in food is a drug. In fact, marijuana is much safer than a lot of legal drugs like caffeine or alcohol. For instance, nobody has ever died from smoking marijuana, but countless people have died from drinking too much coffee or alcohol.

And prohibition is really the big problem. Not only does it decrease the quality of the product, but it also incites criminal activity around it like gangs.

PS: There is no such thing as a marijuana addiction. If anything, it is psychological, definitely not chemical.

Originally posted by crimvelvet
reply to post by Pakd-on-mystery

 

...Drugs should not be taken by anyone no matter how "pure", they clog your mind and conclude in loosing reality.....

What happens if it is legal? First it gets taxed. Second if someone gets hooks and wants out they can go to a clinic and get help. Third the drugs available would be clean and not as dangerous. And fourth, drugs would lose the mystic and draw caused by them being illegal. Hopefully it would also unclog the court system.

Making Alcohol legal hasn't been the end of the world. I doubt making drugs, gambling and prostitution legal would be either.

The United States has the highest documented incarceration rate in the world. Isn't it about time we did something about that?

I agree that taxes on drugs would probably change the situation, although junkies would not be stopped by taxes.
Also clean drugs are dangerous, no matter how pure the drug is, it still leads to loss of reality and physical degradation.

Making alcohol legal hasn't been the end of the world, although statistically, every 3rd adult in Europe is an alcoholic, which must be the result of a lack of education in my opinion. (No Offesnse towards anyone)

reply to post by Pakd-on-mystery


Switzerland's Heroin Experiment

It's been tried and tested in Switzerland - guess what? Heroin use declined dramatically!! It does work - and TPTB know it works.

Regardless of anyone's personal opinion on the rights or wrongs of drug use surely it is time to admit that the current approach is failing miserably and will never work.

An open and honest debate is required and all possible solutions must be considered without using outdated moral objections as a primary determining factor.

Originally posted by christina-66
reply to post by Pakd-on-mystery

 

Switzerland's Heroin Experiment

It's been tried and tested in Switzerland - guess what? Heroin use declined dramatically!! It does work - and TPTB know it works.

Look at the safe injection sites in Vancouver. They were set up as a means to provide new needles to heroin users so they would not shoot up with used needles and catch diseases. It proved to be rather successful and popular, and the RCMP has never stopped trying to close them down.

Marijuana cafes are in Vancouver too, so people can meet and discuss the finer points of life over a joint, as opposed to people getting high in their basement all day.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

Originally posted by Pakd-on-mystery
Drugs should not be taken by anyone no matter how "pure", they clog your mind and conclude in loosing reality.

edit on 16/12/2010 by Pakd-on-mystery because: (no reason given)

Are you, by chance, an artistically minded person? Do you paint, draw, play music, engage in philosophical or spiritual discussion with others? Because I seriously doubt you are with comments like these.

It is not up to you or anyone else to tell someone that drugs are bad for them. I can tell just by your posts that you clearly lack any significant experience in the recreational drug field.

And for your information, I know what the rules are on ATS about drugs. I'm trying to follow them the best I can because I don't like my posts getting censored, and trust me, I am holding back.

Despite what you think, there are kids and teens here.
Opposite to you said, I have never seen anything good come out of drug use. Please explain how drugs shaped your providence in a "very good" way?
Your chemical makeup is also changed by marijuana and every other drug out there.
I did not say pharmaceutical drugs are any better.....you must have missed the line "a drug is a drug"
I am not discrediting drugs, quite the opposite actually.

I've shadowed ATS for at least 6 years, and I am 20 now, so I know first hand that there are youths that look at ATS. But guess what? Your posts are really just beacons for them to take a second look at my posts, so you're creating your own problem.

And I said province, not "providence"; there's a big difference

Marijuana is a herb. It grows from the ground. Natives have smoked it for thousands of years. Why? Because it shifts you train of thought. Here's my description: Normal, sober, thought is like looking through iron sights on a rifle. You can vaguely see your target along with anything in the peripheral (so in other words, you vaguely analyze the entire situation in front of you). Thinking with THC is like looking through a scope; you can see every detail about your target and analyze it in great depth while blocking out unnecessary information in your periphery.

So in other words, marijuana really helps with focusing. It improves comprehension of music and art in general. It is a spiritual drug because it gives you insight, not only into the world around you, but into yourself as well.

And face it, drugs are everywhere. Coffee is loaded with caffeine, which is rough on the human structure and can even kill a person. Endorphins in sex are drugs. MSG in food is a drug. In fact, marijuana is much safer than a lot of legal drugs like caffeine or alcohol. For instance, nobody has ever died from smoking marijuana, but countless people have died from drinking too much coffee or alcohol.

And prohibition is really the big problem. Not only does it decrease the quality of the product, but it also incites criminal activity around it like gangs.

First of all, yes I am an artist, and I know from personal experience that drugs do change the way you think, yet not in a good way.

Read my earlier posts, I do not lack recreational drug experience. I have been where you are now, trust me, if you stopped smoking for a while, you would agree to my opinion about pot.
Marijuana makes you think that you have insight into everything, yet once you stop smoking, you realize that you were blinded by the substance.
I smoked marijuana on a daily basis for years, and when I stopped it was like I woke up out of a dream, because I started realizing many details that were not visible to me on weed.
Ok, my bad with "province", but I'm still waiting for those examples of positive drug influence

I am not trying to "sh*t in your cereal", but I would really recommend you trying to live a while without, and you will see what I mean.

actualy if you take a look at the official figures on places like portugal spain the netherlands (... the list gos on)
that have actualy gone down the decriminalisation/legalisation path with drugs. (portugal all drugs are legal)
you will find that drug use actualy falls. this is fact.

the decriminalisation of drugs would not mean the sale of all drugs "over the counter" so to speak.
we all know heroin coc aine ect are deadly and extemely adictive.
and i cant see anywhere openly selling these products. that just wont happen.
however the legitimate sale of " soft drugs" would most likley go ahead.

adicts or "junkies" would not be locked up and criminalised any more they would be regesterd and offerd treament.
most junkies dont want to be junkies in my experience.
this would tackle the hard drug problem almost over night.

as for "soft drugs" i.e. cannabis it would go down the netherlands route . being sold in liecenced premises to responcable adults who make an informed choice to use the substance.
this could then be quality controlled . taxed and ultimatly produce new jobs and revinue for the uk as a whole.

in my oppinion a very good idea.

it would also open up the medical marijuhana options . m.j. as a substance has been shown to help lots of ailments these include sleep dissorders . eatoing dissorders .menstral cramps. chronic pain. glucoma. cancer . aids. m.s. the list gos on and on.

there is already a cannabis based medicin avalable in the u.k. to sufferers of these ailments called "satevex" taken from the word sativa. a tipe of annabis plant. cannabis sativa.

i truly believe if we went down this path it would greatly improve the uk .
there are far more uses for the m.j. plant go google hemp. see what you find on its uses.

but we all know under this current government this will never happen. how can the p.m. openly campagn for family values with one hand and legalise drugs with the other. its not gonna happen im afraid .
even if it should.

reply to post by christina-66


Im not saying we shouldnt legalize drugs, what im saying is it wont solve all the problems relating to drug use. Dealers will still deal, smackheads will still rob and thieve, just because they're legal doesnt mean people wont commit crime to pay for them and dealers wont sell them for an income.

Looking over my last post i can see how you thought i was maybe against the idea, im not, but people need to understand that it wont necessarily make this world a perfect place. There will always be a black market for drugs wether illegal or not.

Originally posted by Pakd-on-mystery

Originally posted by Somehumanbeing
reply to post by SeaWind

 

yes because you immediately become addicted to a drug once you try it

Where did you hear that?

I used to snort stuff through my nose for about two years and stopped out of my own free will.
I used to smoke funny things in High school every day for about 6 years, and decided to stop from one day to another, so I did.
I have not touched that stuff ever since, and it's been about ten years.

It depends on the specific drug....some cause a mental addiction such as marijuana, where as some such as heroin cause a physical addiction.

I find it very sad to see that a topic like this has relevance for many people here on ATS. Drugs ruined the life of many people I know, and almost ruined mine. Drugs never helped anyone, and never will. Please people, I know that there is no Forum in the entire Internet, which combines so many brilliant minds as ATS does. It would be a shame to see all that go to waste....

That's all very well and good, but it's YOUR opinion only. I have also been through drug addiction - Speed was my drug of choice. Yes, I went a little mental on it and landed myself in jail - where I begged to be sent to rehab because I wanted to get off the stuff but was refused. In jail I learnt how to inject speed into my penis for an awesome sexual high, as well as how to place pain pills in water to siphon off the opiate into a syringe for prompt injection.

My point is, yes many people are hurt on a daily basis because of addiction, but sending them to jail is only making the problem worse. Decriminalisation or Legalisation would take the preparation and sales of drugs OUT of the hands of criminals and INTO the hands of professionals who DO NOT mix the drugs with all sorts of dangerous crap just to fill it out and make more for their buck.

Heroin used to be sold over the counter as a cough medicine you know. Cannabis and Hemp were grown by millions of people worldwide for centuries before Big Pharma had it made illegal so it would not eat into their pharmacuetical profits.

You want to know who the REAL villains are in this so-called War On Drugs?

Follow the Money.

Originally posted by Catch_a_Fire
reply to post by christina-66

 

Im not saying we shouldnt legalize drugs, what im saying is it wont solve all the problems relating to drug use. Dealers will still deal, smackheads will still rob and thieve, just because they're legal doesnt mean people wont commit crime to pay for them and dealers wont sell them for an income.

exactly my point, legalization would be a start, yet not the solution. As long as there are people saying that certain drugs aren't that bad, there will always be consumers.