Israel's leader does not want to share Jerusalem

Israel's leader does not want to share Jerusalem

JERUSALEM – Israel's leader on Sunday dismissed a call from a key government partner to share the holy city of Jerusalem with the Palestinians, a reminder of the obstacles facing already troubled peacemaking efforts.

Conflicting claims to east Jerusalem lie at the heart of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The dispute over the area, home to sensitive Jewish, Muslim and Christian holy sites, has derailed past peace talks and spilled into violence. Palestinians claim the sector as the capital of their future state.

...However...

Netanyahu's defense minister, Ehud Barak of the centrist Labor Party, called for sharing Jerusalem with the Palestinians. But a government official said Barak's idea does not reflect the government's view.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Oh how nice of Barak to consider 'sharing' stolen land. No different than someone stealing your car and telling you how virtuous and honorable they are for letting you drive it once a month... And it is not a matter of what Israel wants, they are illegally occupying East Jerusalem...if America simply stopped protecting Israel at the UN, sanctions would be placed and Israel would be forced to abide by international law and retreat back in to their own legal borders or face a crippled economy.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Well what did you expect?
Anything else would have...well been a surprise!

I am for peace in the Middle East just as much as the next person, but my patience is starting to wear thing. In my personal opinion, Israel is doing nothing more than forgetting the events of history, employing methods they have denounced dating back to WWII.

While I understand the need for Israel to be "secure" and free from threat, just as the Palestinians have a right to, its starting to look like this is never going to be resolved. We can point fingers back and forth and blame both side, but one side needs to take the first step, and in the grand scheme of things I am seeing it must be Israel.

My opinion is starting to shift towards the US reducing funding to Israel unless they get there heads out of their ass and make some moves to resolve this. Absent that, I see no reason why the US should not recogniize unilaterally a Palestinian State and work with the PA for funding and assistance.

While Hamas / Hezbollah are in power, The Palestinians need to boot their asses out of office and form a government that is more responsible to the Palestinian people and their goals, and not on the single effort of wiping Israel off the map.

We are at the ned of the road from what I see, with nowhere else to go, and nothing left to talk about. I think the International Community, The US as well as MIddle Eastern Countries, should end support to ALL groups to apply pressure on both sides to make meaningful change to end this mess (Israel raidclas, Muslim radicals, indpendant groups running their own agenda, and meddeling by other countries who have no deire to see peace).

Jerusalem is a Holy City, with roots attached to the 3 major religions. Each group wants to protect their own history and there is nothng wrong with that. The constant mistrust between these 2 groups, the meddeling from outside sources, negates the fact that neither side wants to destroy each others holy sites, and in reality want unfettered access to it.

This needs to stop, and both sides must be held to task for their actions. The arguments people are going to give, all due respect, save it. I dont want to hear people talk about security for Israel, or the "freedom fighter" for Palestine. The arguments are as old as the problem, and have not made any headway or resolved any issues. If anything, this midset has done nothing but draw out this mess longer that it should be.

Peace should be paramount, and geared towards the affected people, and not groups running an Agenda.

My heart goes out to the Palestinians. Everyone deserves to live in peace.

Israel needs to realize that this isn't just their land despite their religious beliefs.

From the Nile to the Euphrates!! Onward!

Originally posted by mayabong
From the Nile to the Euphrates!! Onward!

Please.. save the propoganda.. This thread is not for that BS.

Originally posted by Solomons
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Oh how nice of Barak to consider 'sharing' stolen land.

Why would he consider anything different than America's solution to the same problem?

We 'shared' the land with the people we stole it from.

It has worked here, the US is Israels pit bull and that is an easy solution.

Peace

Originally posted by Frontkjemper
My heart goes out to the Palestinians. Everyone deserves to live in peace.

Israel needs to realize that this isn't just their land despite their religious beliefs.

Completely agree, while at the same time the radical extremists on the opposite need to understand its not all arab land either.

Its hard to argue over a 2 thousand year old land dispute.

reply to post by zroth


Comparing 1967 with all the laws that applied then and now to the stealing of land centuries ago is really stretching it...The Geneva convention is clear, the majority of the worlds opinion at the UN is clear, the ICJ is clear...Israel is illegally occupying Palestine and should retreat back to it's pre june 1967 borders, the consensus among the world is unanimous in that view.

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by mayabong
From the Nile to the Euphrates!! Onward!

Please.. save the propoganda.. This thread is not for that BS.

That was Sarcasm, but that is the true plan thats why there will never be peace.

Israel should wipe out the Palestinians already instead of this slow torture. Israel does these "middle east peace talks" for show. The Israeli government has NO interest in peace until the deal would entirely serve them. Same with Hamas, Hizbollah, etc. Neither side cares about the conditions of the people they are hurting. You want peace in the middle east? Get rid of the Israeli government, Hamas, Hizbollah, Western influence, and you'll have peace. I lay the blame entirely on those in power.

Has anyone popped the question: If the U.S. empire does fall, what will happen to Israel and its power? I doubt Europe will stand to be Israel's puppet.

Originally posted by mayabong

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by mayabong
From the Nile to the Euphrates!! Onward!

Please.. save the propoganda.. This thread is not for that BS.

That was Sarcasm, but that is the true plan thats why there will never be peace.

Sarcasm is fine, and I read the thread where that info was posted, and think its BS there as well. If that was the plan of ISrael do you really think they would be at the borders they are now? They had multiple chances to conquer and occupy and did not. Attempting something like that today would be a suicide mission, and they would have been better off doing in the late 60's.

We are beyond the argument of who owned what land when and at what time.

The comment about the UN and the Israeli borders from the 67 war, if people go back and read the British results from the UN resolution, they specifically pointed out the way the resoution was worded that it allowed ISrael to interpret as the 67 border, and not the 48 border.

The Brits actually took that to the BRitish Government, but no country, not one, acted on the reccomendation to fix the resolution to make it clear the intent was withdrawal to the 48 borders.

History aside, both sides have failed spectacularly in this area. I think the US should wind down support to Israel, and I think the Arabs should wind down support to Hamas, Hezbollah and other groups. Let the middle ground on both sides make the attempt and see what can come from it.

God / Allah knows the course of action so far is an absolute failure.

Originally posted by DevilJin
Has anyone popped the question: If the U.S. empire does fall, what will happen to Israel and its power? I doubt Europe will stand to be Israel's puppet.

I would make the suggestion to learn mandirin-Chinese, and think about ways to fend off how China would deal with that type of situaton.

reply to post by Xcathdra


I'm not really sure which thread you're talking about. If you ask any hardcore zionist.. there are few on here. The goal is Greater Israel. Thats why its on the back of their money. I had someone explain it to me pretty well on here, and he said it was for the betterment of humanity even if we didn't think so yet. He said right now the Israeli's are (some hebrew word) which means going home. They aren't in 100% expansion phase yet.

Israeli's are already buying land in northern Iraq and hope to get the pipeline from Iraq to Haifa one day.

All these wars, all this foolishness is just for greater israel.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Hamas have already stated they will agree to a two state solution in accordance with international law, the only road block in the whole peace process is Israel who flatly refuses to do so. Im sorry, but im getting fed up with this whole notion that they are both as guilty as each other, sure Hamas are an extremist group...but what do you expect when you create such an environment for people to live? And while many aspects of them are deplorable, i will never condemn an oppressed people for trying to drive an illegal and brutal military occupation from their land...even if it is completely hopeless considering they have nothing more than pea shooters against one of the most advanced military in the world. And let's remember how long this has been going on for, you can't simply blame Hamas when they have not been around or in power all this time.

reply to post by Solomons


How so?

Is 1967 right and wrong somehow different than 1700' right and wrong?

Occupation is still occupation and the people with guns are still writing the laws.

Peace

Originally posted by Solomons
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Hamas have already stated they will agree to a two state solution in accordance with international law, the only road block in the whole peace process is Israel who flatly refuses to do so. Im sorry, but im getting fed up with this whole notion that they are both as guilty as each other, sure Hamas are an extremist group...but what do you expect when you create such an environment for people to live? And while many aspects of them are deplorable, i will never condemn an oppressed people for trying to drive an illegal and brutal military occupation from their land...even if it is completely hopeless considering they have nothing more than pea shooters against one of the most advanced military in the world. And let's remember how long this has been going on for, you can't simply blame Hamas when they have not been around or in power all this time.

edit on 12-12-2010 by Solomons because: (no reason given)

And this is the mindset that has perpetuated the problem. I wont condemn people for protecting themselves from people who want to exploit the situation to run their own agenda, whether it be Israeli or Palestinian.

And yes, bith sides are at fault, Israel for the reason stated everyday on these forums, and Palestinians, namely Hamas and Hezbollah who still have not stated Israel has a right to exist. There was an airtstrike 2 days ago in Gaza by Israeli forces... Why? Because Hamas launchged rocket attacks.

So yeah, both sides are to blame.

Both sides have moderates that can work with each other. I say let them try and see what can be accomplished.

reply to post by Xcathdra


First let me say Praise God that he is finally doing what is right.

Secondly the bible has the word Jerusalem at least 1000 times in it. They conquered the land from the Philistines, like the colonist did the Indians.

Third if you are so concerned for the palestine's why do you not show example by moving back to the country of your ancestors and give the Indians back their land.

The Turks ruled the land for 400 years before the British got it with little fan fare, and they gave it to the Jews.

news.bbc.co.uk...
The Messianic idea of returning the Jews to their "promised land" had been a Puritan religious belief since the 16th Century. In the mid-19th Century, British politicians saw another value: that of having in place in the Middle East a Jewish entity sympathetic to the British Empire.
The re-birth of Israel is an unprecedented phenomenon in human history. That a people should go into exile, be dispersed, and yet survive for 2,000 years, that they should be a nation without a national homeland and come back again, that they should re-establish that homeland is a miraculous, singular event. No one ever did such a thing.
By the 1880s, groups of desperate Russian and other Eastern European Jews were settling in Palestine, which was under the somewhat tenuous authority of the Turkish Ottoman Empire.

So the Jews have been returning to their promised land since before the 1940's, and that they were living with the people that had been their. But since the people have made a country the Arab's have tried to destroy them.

Mark Twain who visited Israel in 1867 described it like this in Innocents Abroad:
Jerusalem is mournful, dreary and lifeless. I would not desire to live here. It is a hopeless, dreary, heartbroken land… Palestine sits in sackcloth and ashes.”

As we see Mark Twain did not think of it as a great place, yet today as prophecy has foretold, the land blooms with flowers, food and is green again.

This could have been done prior yet no one tried because they did not value the land then, but now after hard work has been done by others to create the utopia the Arab's would like it.