December 21st Winter Solstice Full Moon

reply to post by Xiamara


I'm with you on your sentiments towards most organized religion aside from Buddhism. As a Pagan-leaning person, I just found this to be of particular interest, as it seems like an added bonus to this year's Winter Solstice, which I try to recognize as the main Holiday in December.

reply to post by mythos


Sounds fantastic, I can't wait.
Happy Solstice friend.

i studied stone circles some twenty years ago. myself and three others had the good fortune of
spending the entire 1999 solstice at a stone circle all night. the quartz in the stones made them
glow and it was a truly fantastic night. i also messed with a laser which acted unusual under the
conditions. we could make out a faint column helix within the circle moving anti-clockwise which
was the icing on the cake.
it is something you have to see with your own eyes to appreciate.
f

Originally posted by WashingtonGrewHemp
reply to post by Kokatsi

 

There will be a lunar eclipse? Do you know where it will be visible from?
2nd

Look at the map 5 posts back on page 1.

Originally posted by Xiamara
reply to post by Condemned1990

 

I'm anti-organized religion except the Buddhists, I know a family of them and they feed me very good food. They haven't gotten on my nerves yet. The Jewish are cool to. So okay yeah the Christians and just all others similar have pissed me off called me satans daughter, heathen so on and so on.... Pagans are just so relaxed.

hey.. its nice to see a pagan who thinks the Jews are cool.

Thats nice for a change.

reply to post by dontreally


Do you think that Pagans dislike Jews as a rule of thumb? That's simply not true. I think most Pagans like Jews more than Christians. Something to consider...

Originally posted by WashingtonGrewHemp
reply to post by dontreally

 

Do you think that Pagans dislike Jews as a rule of thumb? That's simply not true. I think most Pagans like Jews more than Christians. Something to consider...

And that in truth, is a complete misnomer.

It is simply illogical that pagans - real, enlightenedf, educated pagans, would like Judaism.

Dont get me wrong, her naivette is appreciated and thanked, but its completely awkward.

Real pagans despise Judaism. They despise it because Judaism is the Root, and LAW which pagans supposedly hate in christianity. While christianity, although exoterically stupid, and dumb, and pathaologically paranoid, is actually only that way on the outside. Informed christian mystics understand the 'liberal' inner nature of the christian religion. Whatever the catholic church says, is simply a lie, and ruse to mislead their sheep. Theyre the biggest crooks and most corrupted pagans of them all. They havent left their Greek/Egyptian/Bebylonian/Zoroastrian roots. You would think the massive phallus (sexual symbol ie; a sacred sexual relationship between man and the divine mother) standing erect in St. Peters Square, which originally stood at Helipolis almost 4000 years ago, would imply something about that,. But, the metaphysically impoverished dont know anything about a esoteric theology; or what that means. Those who know, easily understand; which is why the Jews since the beginning understood the Romans and thus christians to be closet pagans; even if they have the majority of them running about unaware of that fact.

So, Judaism is actually legalistic. And its a dictate of the Talmud that all peoples should curb their natures to reflect the same contraction G-d made when he created the world. This 'activates' the heavens, and draws down blessings and bounty beyond human comprehension. But, this requires a collective will, and consciousness. It cant be just the minority, but the majority of people to affect the Shekinah, and thus unite the divine indwelling presence with its infinite source.

so this is the background history of the Jew vs. Pagan debacle. Most modern pagans who made a name for themselves, usually left on record their feelings towards the Jews, and they werent pleasant. Im reminded of many Germanic pagans (which was popular in the late early 20th century) cant remember their names, but many of them were associated with Nazism, who made mention at one point or another about the Jews. Its common, and its completely logical.

reply to post by dontreally


I appreciate you trying to help educate me, but I assure you it is unnecessary. First off, Pagans don't hate all Jews. Second of all, saying that Romans were closet Pagans is weird, because they were overtly Pagan before Constantine converted them to Christianity.

Are you Jewish or something? I may be Pagan-leaning, but I certainly wouldn't hate you just because you're Jewish. It's not the Jews fault that Rome decided to slaughter half of Europe to convert them to Christianity. Sure, Christ was Jewish, and it's an Abrahamic religion, but in my opinion it's far less benign than Judaism.

The one main problem I have with all the Abrahamic faiths is that they all exhibit a spiritual egotism that says "if you're not one of us, we don't care about you." A Pagan is more likely to be a Pantheist, as the Founding Fathers of the US were, believing that all creatures are part of the Godhead.

Jews have a word for non-Jews, don't they? Goy or Goyim, right?

That says a lot about their insular tradition.

And yes, it was partially their fault that my ancestors were systematically slaughtered when they didn't convert to Christianity. Honestly, Mary should have used a coat hanger.

Originally posted by WashingtonGrewHemp
reply to post by dontreally

 

I appreciate you trying to help educate me, but I assure you it is unnecessary. First off, Pagans don't hate all Jews. Second of all, saying that Romans were closet Pagans is weird, because they were overtly Pagan before Constantine converted them to Christianity.

Are you Jewish or something? I may be Pagan-leaning, but I certainly wouldn't hate you just because you're Jewish. It's not the Jews fault that Rome decided to slaughter half of Europe to convert them to Christianity. Sure, Christ was Jewish, and it's an Abrahamic religion, but in my opinion it's far less benign than Judaism.

The one main problem I have with all the Abrahamic faiths is that they all exhibit a spiritual egotism that says "if you're not one of us, we don't care about you." A Pagan is more likely to be a Pantheist, as the Founding Fathers of the US were, believing that all creatures are part of the Godhead.

Jews have a word for non-Jews, don't they? Goy or Goyim, right?

That says a lot about their insular tradition.

And yes, it was partially their fault that my ancestors were systematically slaughtered when they didn't convert to Christianity. Honestly, Mary should have used a coat hanger.

edit on 11-12-2010 by WashingtonGrewHemp because: wrong word

Goy in Hebrew means 'nation' or 'a person of the nations'. And goyim is the plural.

Thats the big misconception about the Romans. Why would rome, which had persecuted the Jews and despised their religion, who themselves had espused the philosophy of Greece, and indeed romanized the greek religion by substituting Greek gods with their roman versions ie; Aphrodite became Venus, Hermes became Mercury, Dionysus = Liber, Ares, = Mars, Zeus = Jupiter/Jove, Cronus = Saturn etc etc, if they didnt have a deep theological and philosophical kinship with the greeks, and indeed, with all pagan religions (in mesopotomaria, Egypt, and the east)

What motive is there in the whole roman empire converting to a Judaism like religion? If they hated the idea of law. Especally controlling their sexual urges?

It doesnt make sense; and it shouldnt, because its patently false and untrue.

Christianity is allegorical, and symbolic, like all religious traditions.

For instance, take the 3 magi. It should be mentioned that Christianity imitated the Jewish tradition, though certainly did not espouse the same theology.

The 3 magi are 3 Zoroastrian mystics from Iran. What do 'presents' represent? Well in the bible, 'maton' presents, were what Abraham had given to his second wife Keturah when he sent her and her children off to the east - "to the land of the East". This is persia. In Christianity, these same 'presents' are returned, and given to christ from 3 zoroastrian magi. The presents themselves refer to a occult knowledge or wisdom.

To one who has studied just a bit of zorastrianism, you would see that Christianity is a virtual replication of its dualistic theology. Ormuzd vs. Ahriman became G-d vs. Satan. And "Ahura Mazda" equals the gnostic Abraxas, or as some gnostics supposed, YHVH.

In any case, the religion created the by the christian fathers was for the masses; and not the "initiated". This is proven by the fact that the Christian proseltyized by making agreements with other peoples that they could continue their normal pagan practices, except under the garment of the christian tradition. Saturnalia was practied in Asia minor until 1000 CE. It was also practiced in Rome and the other provinces of the Roman kingdom. You should read how about how seamlessly the celectic and germanic tribes integrated christianity with their own tribal beliefs. It wasnt a problem, because they understood that the allegory, and myth fit their own traditions.

There is clearly some agenda on the part of the Roman elite, and european aristocracy to create a great and pervasive movement to control the minds of the masses. This began around 250 CE, picked up great steam around the first crusades, and christianity became firmly established around 1200 CE. Thats when the dogmatism and lies most christians believe today were promoted. It was simply for the purpose of controlling, and using them as a way to advance their manifest destiny agenda. Its led to where we are today. And as we can see, they are slwoly shedding their christian garb. The protestants started this shift with their loosesning the hold that the church had on them. Calvinism further depreciated and liberalized christianity by developing pessimitistic dogmas like 'predestination' and 'total depravity'. And now we are here today. Paganism completely revealed, and free to impose its influence on the masses.

And in this atmosphere, who would want to resist it? It appeals to ones natural desires. One can be liberal and do as he pleases 'as long as others arent hurt'. Christianity destroyed, completely petrified and mutlilated the Judaic and Hebraic theology which was meant for all mankind.

Christianity was a ruse to defeat Judaism; and they have done that. Most people are christian or muslim (Islam to is in this category) with a very small minority of Jews. Judaism has been cast throughout history as a outsiders religion; theyve been made to look like miserly sneaky scoundrels, and the christian world imposed havoc on the Jews whereever they lived. In the orient; in spain, central europe, eastern europe. Everywhere. In every generation. Now we the children of yesterdays antisemites have inherited a cultural outlook which looks down upon Judaism, and sees it as outdated, or at the very least, completely irrelavant (since christianity and islam have much greater numbers). And so were all naturally suspicious of the Jews, and of Judaism. Were like this because of the collective psyche, which compels us to think thus.

Anyways. I appreciate those pagans who look kindly upon the Jews. But if they knew that Judaism challenged their outlook, and sought to end their bohemianism...would they still like the Jews? or would they adopt the Nazi/Catholic church attitude. Get rid of them. They spoil our fun.

In anycase. Judaism seeks to do G-ds will. Love and being kind and good, and helpful is what every people sould want. But we should also know that there are limits to certain actions. For instance, being sexually depraved and promiscuous, Judaism, and the 7 laws of noah strictly prohibits. and other idolatrous practices like worshipping of culture in general. I dont think many enlightened new agers/neopagans would have a problem with Judaisms vision for the world aside from its attitude toward sexuality; which they believe people should show a power and control over. Not flaunt themselves in improper and indecent ways. when you you puts things into context. G-d didnt create this world so we can worship sexuality, as the egyptians and pagans did. But to worship him. And what he desires from us is that we master the natural, and animal parts of ourselves, and not succumb asnd shamelessly induldge in them. There is something very unseemly, and lawless about that that i feel is very bad.

And im not a Jew.

Im just a student of religion. I love to read, and i feel like i have pretty good understanding of these things.

reply to post by dontreally


You've presented a lot of information for me to comb through here, thank you. I think Rome converted to Christianity after Constantine had a vision of Jesus during a battle. But the real reason they converted, I think, was that they knew a monotheistic religion would be more effective in controlling the masses. I don't like how Pagans got a bad rap because of the Nazis by the way. I think if more people were Pagan, we wouldn't be facing constant ecological and environmental problems...

The Pagan holiday in December is coming up and it coincides with a full moon. When was the last time this happened? And is there any significance to it?

Originally posted by mythos

Originally posted by Xiamara
reply to post by pianopraze

 

I don't hate the people just the message,

a 'true' christian's message would be about compassion, forgiveness, charity, humility. what's there to hate?

edit on 9-12-2010 by mythos because: add line

The thought of that made me chuckle a bit because usually the "true" Christians that I used to be around all the time happened to be the complete opposite of these qualities. The "true" Christians in all reality that I met were either atheist or deist!! Go figure. Its quite funny in actuality but TRUE.

hmmm lets see, I talk to trees , I take a lot of my cues from nature, I believe in magic. I believe in a higher power. I believe the higher power is all about love in its ultimate form.

I have a problem with Anyone that is suppose to be or whos core belief is about being loving and kind, yet remains judgmental.

I have a problem with Anyone thinking their God is better than anyone else, and feel they have a solid reason to kill in that vain.

I believe I am me and you are you, and in the big picture we are one.

My religion is my heart...

I am done now for that spill of thought... As far as the moon,and the solstice, I believe there is great magic to be had that night. IF there was ever a good night for projecting good thoughts and ones dreams, I believe that will be a good night for Intent. Take a moment if you can and step outside and absorb the magic that surrounds you and don't forget to Pay it Forward to complete the circle.

Originally posted by WashingtonGrewHemp
reply to post by dontreally

 

You've presented a lot of information for me to comb through here, thank you. I think Rome converted to Christianity after Constantine had a vision of Jesus during a battle. But the real reason they converted, I think, was that they knew a monotheistic religion would be more effective in controlling the masses. I don't like how Pagans got a bad rap because of the Nazis by the way. I think if more people were Pagan, we wouldn't be facing constant ecological and environmental problems...

Thanks for appreciating my post.

Well, the Roman empire is still alive and strong, in the form of the European Union and America. And the papacy still has all the control, despite appearances to the contrary.

Nature is beautiful and G-d created it for us to take care of it. Thats what the Garden of Eden means. Eden is a spiritual awareness, and the 'garden' is this world. We were created to 'tend' the Garden of Eden. This world is G-ds garden, and its irresponsible and amoral to hurt any creature, or to needlessly destroy anything. Whether that be a flower or a bug. Let it be.

One of my favorite things is to be outside. Even despite Xbox, Kinect and TV, we cannot avoid our spiritual need to be in touch with nature.

This is a very natural attitude that all peoples should have

The way the Rabbis interpret Isaiahs "The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them" refers to all the different peoples, and cultures, and religious traditions, living in harmony. And the little child, refers to the childlike innocence; like the way a child relates to his father or mother. He wants to do what makes them happy. He wants to be a good kid. And hes also happy, always, and the littlest thing bring him joy..

When man becomes sophistacted, and proud of his sophistry.. thats when the little child is killed. Simplicity is how a child conducts himself, and likewise, thats how all people should relate with each other, and creation, despite our great knowledge and sophistication, the child is always happy. If its a dark day, the rain and weather fascinates him. If its a sunny day, he has fun outside. I am 25, and i am just as in touch with my inner child as i was when i was 12. And G-d loves those who humble themselves. Before others, and before him. And really, those who pride themselves towards others, are tacitly doing it before him. Compared to the infinite, what am I? or Stephen Hawking, or an ignoramus? were equal. We are all equally nothing before the infinite. No number can match the numberless. 1 zillion is the same as 1. So, how vain and useless it is to vaunt yourself as something special. I know i do this often, but i try not to. And when im reminded, i try to change it. Humility is the greatest attribute. The greatest. Ive read many non Jewish mystics, like the Hindu sage Ramana Maharshi, who considered humility the most noble spiritual attribute. And its true. One who is humble doesnt get angry. He understands that this is what G-d wants. And one who is easily angry, is also very egostistical. You dont get angry unless your ego was offended. The only time anger is justified, is when others are being mistreated, and oppressed. Or when people in general are acting in obscene and irresponsbile ways. Such anger is not anger for oneself, but anger and jealousy for G-d; and for truth and justice. And that is a noble anger.

I have respect for all traditions. I just feel like ive found a home in torah and Judaism. Its very, cozy...

reply to post by dontreally


I like your view of the Earth as a holy creation that must be preserved. I agree. It's our cosmic home! We must be good care-takers of such a cosmic bounty!

reply to post by dontreally


Confucius said "Symbols rule the world, not words nor laws."

If most Christians understood the symbols in Christianity they would be appalled. They either deny or use Justin Martyrs "devil imitating" defense which an incomprehensible level of self denial to me.

I view myself as a Christian mystic and enjoy studying many of the things I see referenced in your posts. Once you understand the esoteric symbols and the history and tradition that have been imbedded or "hidden in plain site" you see a whole new world. But most do not want to hear it or see it.

Let's take the "bright and morning star" which is also the "evening star"... aka Venus (female goddess, or Jesus, or Lucifer... interesting no?) which is esoterically referenced as the pentagram.

How are Venus and the pentagram the same? Venus (Aphrodite, Isis, Ishtar, Astarte,etc....) creates the Pentagram in the night sky through it's inferior conjunctions:


Here is a picture

Source: wiki pentagram

It also encodes sacred geometry by showing phi and the golden ratio.

This is just the tip of the iceberg with this one concept.

So those who are "initiated" or have studied enough see the words or symbols and understand. Those who are not initiated only know the outer trappings.

reply to post by pianopraze


Let's just remember this holiday season, that December 21st, the Winter Solstice, is the original holiday celebrated by countless civilizations across the globe. It's astro-logical man.

Happy Yule.
Cut down some choice mistletoe with a golden dagger in a white cloak and cure cancer...
www.iscador.com...

haha

reply to post by dontreally


you're welcome. the only thing that I take issue with is what you said "goy" and "goyim" means. I know that they are derogatory terms for non-jews. You said that they mean "people of the nation," but I think you are lying.

Sorry to call you out on that.

Originally posted by WashingtonGrewHemp
reply to post by dontreally

 

you're welcome. the only thing that I take issue with is what you said "goy" and "goyim" means. I know that they are derogatory terms for non-jews. You said that they mean "people of the nation," but I think you are lying.

Sorry to call you out on that.

You can look it up yourself. Goy means 'nation'. Its gentile paranoia that makes it out as something derogatory.

Many times the Torah refers to a Jew - abraham, isaac or jacob, and how G-d will make them a "Goy Gadol" - a great nation.

Maybe there are those Jews who say goy and mean it in a derogatory way...but its simply a hebrew word which means nation.

Would it have been so hard for you to type that into google?

Wikipedia article for goy

reply to post by dontreally


Right, my point is that it IS used as a derogatory phrase by some Jews. I can't personally identify with that sentiment, as I see the whole of humanity as equal spiritually.