The Milky Way - Welcome to your New Home Galaxy!

Thanks DoF I always do my homework... that is how one makes interesting threads

The 2MASS view of the entire sky, dominated by our Milky Way. The faint extension below the center of our Milky Way is the core of the Sagittarius dwarf. The bright smudges below and to the right of the plane of the Milky Way are the Large and Small Magellanic Clouds, which are more intact satellite galaxies of the Milky Way than the Sagittarius dwarf.

Photo credit: John Carpenter and Robert Hurt/2MASS Project

Full Size... you can barely make out the streamer. Nice to get a view of our galaxies from 'outside'

www.ipac.caltech.edu...

SOURCE: www.astro.virginia.edu...

The Two Micron All Sky Survey at IPAC
www.ipac.caltech.edu...

reply to post by poet1b


Thanks for the link.

Science has a nasty habit of trying to sound like all is known and their word is book. Anyone who understands pure science knows the lack of humility is a buffer for growth. I think science, first outlawed by the church, and then re-invented by the church, brought with it an arrogance that shielded itself from objective awareness and isolated it to a fraction of the importance it should have for our civilization. Many great scientists are doing good science. It is just the way they communicate their findings that in many cases demonstrate a dysfunction of self importance.

I think there are many things we dont know and can only make informed guesses based on probability or extrapolations on the small duration data sets we have. Time is all-important to science, as we are observing both Space and Time. And, maybe something else as yet incorporated into the paradigm.

Yea, I think there is much between the galaxies. Maybe vast areas of dark matter, but we can't know yet.

ZG

yes and with my 10 inch reflector powered up to 250X I can tell you for sure there are intelligent shapes on the moon to say the least - THIS IS DOUBTLESS - come and have a look.....

reply to post by zorgon


Thanks Zorgon for the great discussion and fuel in the form of information. This is exciting in it's implications.

Knowing we know little, we can have fun with what we do know. The small image of the oblique Milky way and the SagDEG arching at close to it looks like 90 degrees to the plain, is intriguing.

As far as the Yugas, We can't discount them yet. They're the only written record for the deep past we have. I would like to know where the discrepancy comes from though.

For insight into what what did, what is, and what will happen with the SagDEG impact our not knowing the direction and speed whence SagDEG came from or relative masses of our galaxy and SagDEG in collision we cannot accurately model it and see where rotation "grabs" the SagDEG stellar material and absorbs or forces a compliance with our resident rotating material. Many factors for that. Fun project I think however to visualize it like the video below. And if I was an astrophysicist with a super computer to simulate it I would go for the grant.

I can only guess that Sanskrit is our oldest data record, (except Sumerian pictographs). and who knows what technology existed that passed this forward to our cycle after their cataclysm. But, the information is from somewhere in the past, and at least looks like it was well studied. So I am considering it for the fraction of time we have been mucking around the Milky Way.

I am looking forward to contact with other civilizations in our galaxy to ask these very questions.

We have been able to find some information about our polar shift history by the way magnetic elements line up in rock, and some other fascinating methods of findings in elemental quantity of rock for a few million years of solar history. A galactic history could only be seen at a Quantum level though I imagine. How to do that could be 100's or thousands of years from today, unless we find records we can interpret on Earth, Moon or Mars.

Here are some videos showing how dynamic and individual these collisions can be.

Andromeda impact of Milky Way Simulation

Multiple galaxies in collision.

I am lucky to have been able to view galaxy light many times with my eyes directly with large amateur telescopes, and have seen Zodaical Light (the light you see just before astronomical twilight that is dust in our solar system). Everyone should have the experience.

Here is a great video showing Zodaical light before the Milky Way rises into the night sky. Just for the beauty of it.



ZG

Originally posted by Unionoffreehumans
yes and with my 10 inch reflector powered up to 250X I can tell you for sure there are intelligent shapes on the moon to say the least - THIS IS DOUBTLESS - come and have a look.....

Love to. Whats your 20?

I have a 17.5" Dob, but it needs work after twenty years of service. I want to sell it and get a good 10" Cass I can take everywhere. This Dob has been many dark spots, but at more than 200lbs makes it more work, and transport to dark is hard. I am in a big metro area, so no sky here in the best of conditions.

Here's my scope. ZGSCOPE It's seen Halley's front row. A 15mm Teleview had the coma fill the eyepiece. Miss the nights. Hercules Cluster was always pretty good too.

ZG

Originally posted by jessejamesxx

Originally posted by zorgon
The Milky Way - Welcome to your New Home Galaxy!

Anyone?

edit on 9-12-2010 by jessejamesxx because: (no reason given)

Ouroboros, as the Greeks called the snake that eats its tail, has from ancient times been a symbol of cosmic unity and self-sufficiency.

edit on 9-12-2010 by jessejamesxx because: added quote

One more add-on. I find this fascinating.

While the hoop snake is an imaginary creature, the snake with its tail in its mouth is a symbol in many, many cultures. With origins in ancient Egypt, the ouroboros, as it is called, figures in Greek, Norse, Aztec, Hindu, Chinese, Native American, and Christian mythology. It appears in the symbology of alchemy and the zodiac. By completing the circle it represents the cycle of things, eternal renewal, wholeness.

"The Ouroboros encircles the Universe; everything known and unknown is encompassed in its embracing coils, supporting and maintaining the earthly balance. It injects life into death and death into budding life. Its form suggests immobility with its locked jaws upon itself, yet at the same time it pushes the insistent message of perpetual movement through its twined coils." No wonder we could never catch it as kids!

quigleyscabinet.blogspot.com...

It has been in many many many different cultures. Maybe we knew what this symbol once meant, but the real meaning slipped away and left us with a shedded skin of it's original meaning.

Possible Ancient Astronaut connection?

edit on 9-12-2010 by jessejamesxx because: (no reason given)

I posted this same theory about 3 or 4 pages back. Yours, of course is a bit more flashy with the visual aids but then again, thanks for the fish.

I believe that such things were known by ancient astronomers, along with a lot more than we know at this time.

Originally posted by zorgon
Originally posted by ZeroGhost

We are pretty sure we orbit the core. 'Pretty sure'

But your forgetting one key point here Does not the streamer of Sagittarius also orbit with the core? Not sure if we can track that... if the pull of the Milky Way has already added the Streamer to its own rotation... but since the event is nearing i'ts end I would imagine it's likely that the streamer is now also caught in the Milky Way's rotation Oh wait... according to the University of Virginia's animation

IT DOES

OK, so I look at this like super viscus fluids and gravitational attraction to mass. When an arm of SagDEG goes through the galaxy, it has a different velocity, direction and angle of orientation. There is stickyness in the gravitation, so some of the Milky Way material is pulled out of its path in the arm, and in some cases flung like a whip well out of the arm. But in super slow motion I guess.

But, maybe we can think of this material rotating being like a cross between Taffee and Syrup. By looking at the simulations we can get a sense. They use very accurate gravitational data for that. So we can imagine the variables in the way SagDEG came into us from whatever direction. This might not even be it's first pass. But at this point it indeed is under the influence of this and SagDEG's core. Just not anywhere near to stable.

In the videos you see the cores reform on the furthest point while they are coming around for another pass. It could happen many times until the cores collide. Maybe galaxies have several super massive black holes in some sort of un-holy relationship.

Heres a picture of SagA, or the core of the Milky Way

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/00314170d4b4.jpg[/atsimg]

It looks like several entities, or black holes with different masses, but all in some gravitational relationship to the original core? This could be a record of galaxies the Milky Way has eaten and as yet not digested? Woh.

So the relationships are too caotic to know any detail, but it looks like at any time if you are in the area the Milky Way arm is traveling into a SagDEG arm, you could see another solar system go by or even through you from a tangent. Bummer.

That is one more thing to worry about. Niberu,indeed. Maybe it already happened, and is coming around after a really eccentric orbit, caught by the sun's gravity and is stabilizing it's orbit over the next million years, bringing it in closer and closer each time. It would be an ice world while at aphelion. Such an intrusion into our solar system could destroy life by the perturbences to orbits, thereby weather and orbital destableization. I'll not think about that I think.

i thought nearly everyone knew this information it's been out there for years,great idea putting it on ats they seem to be behind the times.

Originally posted by ZeroGhost
Science has a nasty habit of trying to sound like all is known and their word is book.

I can deal with the arrogance, but many could have been great scientists got chewed up and spit out by their own peers for daring to suggest something new... Makes one wonder how much has been lost over the centuries because of that.

For insight into what what did, what is, and what will happen with the SagDEG impact our not knowing the direction and speed whence SagDEG came from or relative masses of our galaxy and SagDEG in collision we cannot accurately model it and see where rotation "grabs" the SagDEG stellar material and absorbs or forces a compliance with our resident rotating material. Many factors for that.

As of yet I haven't had the time to explore 'dark matter'... just not enough hours in a day and the brain already hurts , but when some scientists say the spaces between stars is far enough so no serious collisions, that theory doesn't account for dark matter. From what I have seen basically they are saying dark matter constitutes 80% of the matter in the universe, while ordinary matter makes up only 20%. That would seem to mean that the dark matter would play a major role in this.

What is funny is how science cans see it, can't touch it, but think its there based on some effects that don't fit their formulas... and yet they call us nuts for believing in UFO's Maybe UFO's are using dark matter

I also wonder what this dark matter would do if say a piece of it fell to earth like a meteorite... hmmm maybe need a dark matter thread

And if I was an astrophysicist with a super computer to simulate it I would go for the grant.

My advice to you is go for the grant anyway. There is a lot of money out there... you simply need to ask (or find a grant writer) Your project would come under education, so that puts it higher on the grantor list than my theme park plan

I can only guess that Sanskrit is our oldest data record, (except Sumerian pictographs). and who knows what technology existed that passed this forward to our cycle after their cataclysm. But, the information is from somewhere in the past, and at least looks like it was well studied. So I am considering it for the fraction of time we have been mucking around the Milky Way.

If I had a time machine... my first stop would be the library of Alexandria the night before the fire... and empty the place out Then over to Tibet before the Chinese pop in to burn all those scrolls. One wonders what other records may have been found but destroyed..

I am looking forward to contact with other civilizations in our galaxy to ask these very questions.

We would need to find some that are not too far in advance of us though, otherwise they may treat us as children

How to do that could be 100's or thousands of years from today, unless we find records we can interpret on Earth, Moon or Mars.

I get the feeling we are being guided... fed knowledge, as you will. One could say its from Aliens, one could say its inspiration from God, one could say the Akashic Records open from time to time and leak out key facts to certain people. Last time I can count that happening was when three independent scientists came up with the same design for the liquid fuel rocket... and those three were from nations that now lead the space program. There are also Nexus years... 1947 was one

reply to post by zorgon


Just wondering, doesnt this kinda kill the whole "galactic equator alignment theory" of the 2012 doomsday...

s&f...cool stuff

reply to post by Holly N.R.A.


I'm sure some of the original meanings are lost, but the interpretations sound right. Cyclic phenomena define mater and energy. Maybe time too.

Zen saying: "To go far, is to return."

I had a major personal paradigm shift at about 22, when I realized the YinYang was actually a single wave length of a perfect sine wave from the side.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/607615653f9f.png[/atsimg]

It was actually one 360 deg. cycle of spiral from the side.


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/cf0edb256ccc.gif[/atsimg]

This is how a sine wave is really shaped. It is not a squiggly line. Its a helix or spiral. Like the path pf our planet around a star that is also on an even larger in helical path.

I realized all waves and all forms from particles to planets and stars follow such a fundamental structure of movement. Such symbols can have VERY significant meanings. The Ouroboros is no exception.

ZG

Very interesting stuff mate!

I'm not sure there's much new in this. The best way to analyse where we come from is to check the elements and ratios of such in our sun and compare to surrounding solar systems and those of the main body of the Sagittarius Dwarf Galaxy. I don't get the connection with the outer planets and the plasm torus between Io and Jupiter, sorry.

But what I really want to point out is that people's concept of space as pretty static is completely wrong! This is a common argument that space is so spread out that it would take imposibly long for anything to reach us (life of some type). What they don't realise is that we, and all the other solar systems, comets etc, are rushing through space, up and down and around, the galaxy is mixing it's contents within itself and also absorbing other galaxies.
It strongly supports the panspermia hypothesis!

Originally posted by open_eyeballs
Just wondering, doesnt this kinda kill the whole "galactic equator alignment theory" of the 2012 doomsday...

No because the 'Galactic alignment' has been misquoted by many... the alignment is that on that day, looking from Earth towards the galactic center, the sun will be in the way. It's an alignment of Astrological importance that has been taken out of context.

Originally posted by ZeroGhost
Cyclic phenomena define matter and energy. Maybe time too.

Well if you like Zen... your gonna LOVE this...

The Cosmic Ying Yang

Our Earth is not at rest. The Earth moves around the Sun. The Sun orbits the center of the Milky Way Galaxy. The Milky Way Galaxy orbits in the Local Group. The Local Group falls toward the Virgo Cluster of Galaxies. But these speeds are less than the speed that all of these objects together move relative to the microwave background. In the all-sky map below, radiation in the Earth's direction of motion appears blue shifted and hence hotter, while radiation on the opposite side of the sky is red shifted and colder. The map indicates that the Local Group moves at about 600 kilometers per second relative to this primordial radiation. This high speed was initially unexpected and its magnitude is still unexplained. Why are we moving so fast? What is out there?

apod.nasa.gov...

Originally posted by ZeroGhost
Heres a picture of SagA, or the core of the Milky Way

Nice picture

So ummm why is the US NAVY interested in the center of the Galaxy?

reply to post by zorgon


You are the Master Zorgon.

Whether a sea of star light or a sea of star fish, the Navy is right on it. God bless their souls.

What if those two big gamma rays at the center of our galaxy have something to do with the naval interest? It's worth a thought.

Massive gamma ray bubbles discovered in the Milky Way

But why gamma ray bubbles? Well it's funny you ask because I just happen to have a handy explanation.

Wormholes might also explain gamma ray bursts, the second most powerful explosions in the universe after the big bang.

Gamma ray bursts occur at the fringes of the known universe. They appear to be associated with supernovae, or star explosions, in faraway galaxies, but their exact sources are a mystery. (Related: "Gamma-Ray Burst Caused Mass Extinction?")

Poplawski proposes that the bursts may be discharges of matter from alternate universes. The matter, he says, might be escaping into our universe through supermassive black holes—wormholes—at the hearts of those galaxies, though it's not clear how that would be possible.

news.nationalgeographic.com...


Sooooooooooo what if the U.S. Navy is militarizing the SagA zone?

*pause*

But how is that possible???? What?? Why?

So yeah this is just something I threw out there, it might add to zilch or it might add to a whole lot more than zilch.

Hmmmmm...

Starblossom at your service Sir.

reply to post by zorgon

Takes time though and the purpose of the thread is to get the word out so others can help in the effort. I don't do this as a full time job ya know

Fair enough, I am both on board and in the same boat, so to say.

reply to post by zorgon

Here we go...

that core looks awfully close to us

According to what I have seen, using the program Celestia, Sagittarius' core is on the other side of the Milky Way from where we are. Like you said, this is fairly new information. Some of it could be wrong. I think that this is an image from our current point of observation, Earth. So from where the camera would be located, somewhere near Earth, we see the core of Sagittarius off into the distance.

All astrophysical evidence points confidently and indisputably to the fact the Sun is now and has always been a part of the Milky Way.

This statement is disingenuous as I don't think one can state it as fact. Evidence points in favor of, yes. Fact that we are originally from the Milky Way, no. Definitely not indisputably!
There is still the question about our solar plane tilted to the galactic plane and the nature of solar obliquities in general. Why are there orbital planes found in both solar motions and galactic rotations?
One would think, given gravitational forces only, that orbital motions would be spherical and random and not form a plane. Are the angles of these planes naturally random or would they align with the galactic plane? Uranus' axial tilt is around 90° to its orbit and seems to be evidence of a cosmic disturbance. Is the same true for our solar system's tilt to the galactic plane?

Does not the streamer of Sagittarius also orbit with the core?

This is a good question. I would guess that it does not. Sagittarius should retain its original angular motion until it has been consumed by the Milky Way, star by star, at which point it should fall into rational motions at the Milky Way's galactic plane and a communication of angular motion would occur between the galaxy and stars. When this happens it should be indistinguishable from the Milky Way except for maybe some oscillations across the galactic plane.

Oh wait... according to the University of Virginia's animation
IT DOES.
astro.virginia.edu

This animation negates the conservation of angular motion that would have been present inside of Sagittarius. This galaxy had to have been rotating around its own center and this would not simply disappear after it comes into contact with the Milky Way nor would the Milky Way impart enough of its angular momentum onto Sagittarius's streamers as they pass through to cause them to rotate as one with the Milky Way.

reply to post by zorgon

Nice to get a view of our galaxies from 'outside'

Keep in mind that we do not have a view from "outside" of our galaxy. All images of whole galaxies are renderings or other galaxies that are used to represent what the Milky Way looks like.

I definitely like the way you're thinking zorgon, and then you had to go and bring up the term 'dark matter'. I have some thoughts on this subject, the first one that comes to mind is dark matter does not exist. Dark matter is a theory presented to try and explain why galaxies rotate in a rigid manner and why they don't follow the inverse square law.

As it is with the planets in our solar system and moons, or rings, around the planets, like Saturn, the rate of rotation is inversely proportional to the distance form the center, i.e. the farther out you go the longer it takes to make one orbit. Galactic rotations do not do this. The center rotates faster but the main body rotates as one. Whether close to the center or out on the edge everything rotates at the same rate, 225-250 million years per. Given that and the fact that galaxies like to form a disk and rotate on a plane indicate that there is a force at work here that goes unexplained. I prefer to call it the Aether.

awesome thread! who knows maybe this is just be part of something? just a thought. regardless, extremely excellent find zorgon truly captivating and interesting! S & F well deserved.