Monsanto - Bayer Engineering Death: Bees, Bats and You?

Great thread Slayer!!

I have recently seen some action against GM foods here in Canada and would like to encourage all Canadians to contact their MLA and support bill C-474. I have linked a website that has information and links to do just that.

Update, December 2, 2010: Victory for Democracy in Canada on Genetic Engineering! Your actions are working! Despite biotech industry attempts to shut down debate, last night in the House of Commons, the New Democratic Party secured a new 5-hour debate on Bill C-474 and the impacts of genetic engineering for early in 2011. This type of debate on genetic engineering in the House of Commons has never happened before! Now every MP will have a chance to participate in the debate on Bill C-474.

www.cban.ca...

reply to post by SLAYER69


Actually we are experiencing the side effects of it, right now, is numerous medical independent journals that are telling the government the dangers of GMO on humans specially the unborn and children.

But as usual in the US we have "codes" that put food supplies by this companies on top of the food chain.

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

Yes sadly that is true, Monsanto knew that when they started to spread their seeds, they knew that eventually all seeds will be affected by their mutating ones.

I believe that was part of their predatory business practice. They knew [cross-contamination]

reply to post by SLAYER69


I remember, to tell you the truth going after the farmers for the way of nature was like a slap on the face for anybody in this nation that even thing they can win against corporate America.

But like I say Monspanto knew what they were doing when releasing mutating crops in nature.

reply to post by marg6043


Did you read this largely IGNORED ATS thread? Monsanto, the terminator gene, and lateral gene transfer

Monsanto has also developed the "terminator gene," allowing only one generation of plants to be grown from the seeds, with the seeds these plants create being sterile. Problem is if you apply the concept of lateral gene transfer to this "terminator gene," you end up with a very dangerous combo. If genetic contamination of this "terminator gene" occurred, the results could be devastating and leave crops and other plants unable to reproduce in accordance with natural order. This, in turn, could lead to mass starvations, end of life as we know it, etc, etc.

What happens if the "Terminator Gene" crosses over to non food related plants and animals?

Mass plant and animal Extinction

reply to post by SLAYER69


The terminator gene is a disgrace, it wouldn't be so bad but the way Monsanto has used it has basically resulted in people starving to death, literally. In developing countries they are told they cannot store the seed and must buy it, of course many of these people are small farmers and they can't afford to buy it. So they carried on using their own seeds and the governments told them they couldn't use those because they were contaminated with genes Monsanto owned the patent to. This wasn't the farmers fault it was cross pollination.

Worst of all the Monsanto seeds are engineered to handle the tough environment and the farmers need this to help them, but because of the terminator technology they can't save seed to replant and so they and their children often go hungry so that they can buy next years seed. And of course this eliminates their chances of getting out of the situation they are in, which is what Monsanto wants.

There are many large corporations which do have a moral compass, Monsanto sadly lost that a long time ago. I value this thread but lets be absolutely clear, genetic engineering can be a very good thing, to demonise it as a whole is wrong. It is moraless corporate profit making that has turned genetic engineering to the dark side.

Ok, I haven't read everything nor do I have time to watch all ther vids. But not only bees pollenate, a multitude of insectes do. Also some bats pollenate as well. Also wind but not as much.

*If pollenating insectes and bats die off, we are in big trouble. (depopulation?)

*Stoping people from growing their own food and forcing them to eat BMO from TPTB, Aspartame, floride and what not (slow kill--Depopualtion?)

*H1N1 Vaccine resposible for a slew of misscarrages, no proof but the facts or astonishing. (Depopualtion?)

*Reportes of people getting sick after CHEM TRAILS are spotted. (slow kill--Depopualtion?)

Originally posted by SLAYER69

I appreciate the rest of your reply but I take exception to this paragraph.

Yes, we have been growing and eating modified plants for hundreds of years. A smaller round peg fits albeit loosely in a larger round hole. However, with the forcing of a non similar animal genes and the use of Viruses to inject genetically altered genes into the plant we in effect have been able to make the proverbial Square peg now fit into a round hole. Or rather, have JAMMED it in and call it a fit.

We don't know the long term affects yet.

I'm just saying is all.

Please please correct me here in case i am wrong but there are no animal genes in crops that are eaten by humans or livestock. The animal spliced stuff is simply experimental and is destroyed. As for viruses injecting genes, you make that sound so horrible, viruses injecting genes is a perfectly safe procedure. The virus is just an empty protein case, it's like firing a sniper rifle instead of a blunderbuss. Please don't scare people with that kind of talk because using viruses in that way enabled us to provide draught resistant rice and wheat to the third world.

These kinds of alterations are simply a speedier way of doing what we already have been, increasing draught and pest resistance. The problem areas are where we have gone beyond what nature can usually do with time and put that into crops we consume. Crops that produce their own natural pesticide should be banned now, right now, the same with the terminator technology rubbish.

I agree with much of what you post on this issue but try not to go to far and demonise all GM food because quite simply a couple of billion people would starve without GM foods. Or if people started listening, farmers started campaigning and governments took ction we could abandon most of the GM stuff and use hydroponics instead.

I am going on about hydroponics a little sorry about that i'm just passionate about helping people and we really could feed the world with it while drastically reducing our effect on the planet. I have my own little grow room and i can tell you i produce the sweetest tomatoes, with truly massive yields and it's a simple hydro setup. One of my hydro plants can easily produce the same yield as 6 soil grown plants.

The definition of 'organic' has varying levels,
and in brief, this program being launched by codex is a classic example of double speak, and cost prohibitive guidelines.
I could write for hours on the proposed legislation so I'll just supply a link, and you can read it for yourselves,
the 'officials' and 'official bodies', made mention of are the yet to be implemented individuals and local agencies that growers will answer to and apply for license at,
yes we will be licensed, inspected, and monitored.....cough cough (yeah right).
(and of course you already know full implementaion is 2012)


GUIDELINES FOR THE PRODUCTION, PROCESSING, LABELLING AND MARKETING OF ORGANICALLY PRODUCED FOODS
www.codexalimentarius.net...

In the US, federal organic legislation defines three levels of organics. Products made entirely with certified organic ingredients and methods can be labeled "100% organic". Products with at least 95% organic ingredients can use the word "organic". Both of these categories may also display the USDA organic seal. A third category, containing a minimum of 70% organic ingredients, can be labeled "made with organic ingredients". In addition, products may also display the logo of the certification body that approved them. Products made with less than 70% organic ingredients can not advertise this information to consumers and can only mention this fact in the product's ingredient statement.

reply to post by HappilyEverAfter


I've had this big problem with organic food for a while now and it's something many people are not aware of. Organic farmers can use pesticide and if you buy organic food in a supermarket then it probably has had pesticides on it. They simply use organic pesticides, sounds good right? Nope the organic pesticides are often more envionmentally pervasive than the modern synthetic kind.

Organic food is an absolute con and it's about time people woke up to it.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


Interesting.

Related topic/study

Animal and plant genes hard-wired for speciation

The genomes of both plants and animals seem to act as engines for speciation, as they are 'hard-wired' to encourage the development of new species, according to findings on two very different groups of organisms.

Two papers published in this week's Science1,2 provide the first empirical evidence that when two diverging populations of organisms become unable to interbreed — a phenomenon known as hybrid sterility or incompatibility — the number of genes that prevent them from producing viable offspring starts to 'snowball'. This process encourages the evolution of new species.

Incompatibility genes can have a variety of effects in offspring, such as interfering with sperm production.

That's nature working her magic. However when humans introduce non related genes who knows what affects may happen.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


I know that they use pesticides on organics and share your concern about that, but to label it all as a scam is wrong. There are many benefits associated with organics that go beyond the use of chemicals; including soil preservation principles and encourage bio-diversity with complementary plantings and whatnot. It is not all BS. A friend of mine grew "organically" in a hot-house environment. I believed he used some sort of seaweed product as "fertilizer" as needed.

It is not a black and white thing. It is definitely preferrable to the way things have been done the last 50 years or so. It is definitely important to take every means available of denying support to giant predatory companies that have near monopolies in their segment. Shopping local is part of that strategy.

I wouldn't be too cavalier about the benefits of genetic modification when neither you nor anyone has a clue about the long term effects.

Originally posted by wayno
reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

 

I know that they use pesticides on organics and share your concern about that, but to label it all as a scam is wrong. There are many benefits associated with organics that go beyond the use of chemicals; including soil preservation principles and encourage bio-diversity with complementary plantings and whatnot. It is not all BS. A friend of mine grew "organically" in a hot-house environment. I believed he used some sort of seaweed product as "fertilizer" as needed.

It is not a black and white thing. It is definitely preferrable to the way things have been done the last 50 years or so.

Growing inside hot houses is an entierly different issue and if you start doing that you may as well head toward hydroponics becuase you will triple your yield on your first grow, guarenteed. Sorry but organics while useful is now a scam, they use pesticides and as such they cannot and should not be using the organic label. They charge upwrads of 200% more for this lie.

If you want true organics then hydroponics is the way to go, utterly control the environment down to the very Co2 content of the air, no pesticides if you use clean room proocedures, no fungicides if you use air filters and you can grow year round with supplemental lighting in winter. With the recent advances in LED technology aiming toward the specific nanometer range that chlorophyll use you can achieve massive yields with far less energy as well.

Stop supporting organics, start supporting the new technology.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
reply to post by HappilyEverAfter

 

I've had this big problem with organic food for a while now and it's something many people are not aware of. Organic farmers can use pesticide and if you buy organic food in a supermarket then it probably has had pesticides on it. They simply use organic pesticides, sounds good right? Nope the organic pesticides are often more envionmentally pervasive than the modern synthetic kind.

Organic food is an absolute con and it's about time people woke up to it.

I'll go with MASS PRODUCED organics can be suspect, but true locally grown I'm confident of purity.

Originally posted by HappilyEverAfter
I'll go with MASS PRODUCED organics can be suspect, but true locally grown I'm confident of purity.

Ok that one i'll give you because my family has a nice little allotment where pesticides are banned But you get what i mean, if you buy it in a supermarket it is usually made by the very same corporations people are complaining about because these corporatins saw the potential market and purchased the necessary farms. At the same time they increased the pesticide usage up to the permitted levels.

reply to post by SLAYER69


This is pretty disgusting.
They need to quit messing with our food and water supply..Ugh

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

If you want true organics then hydroponics is the way to go, ...

Stop supporting organics, start supporting the new technology.

You say hydroponics is true organics one minute and then say to stop supporting orgnics. You're on some sort of mission here, but your gears are slipping.


Not sure, but I think my friend was actually using hydroponics -- his plants grew in an inert medium of some sort with the water/feertilizer solution running through it. Don't have all the details. He's since sold the farm and moved to town and works for the Research Station on, well, you know -- kind of schitzophrenic of him, but he's aware if it.

Originally posted by HappilyEverAfter
I'll go with MASS PRODUCED organics can be suspect, but true locally grown I'm confident of purity.

Did you watch the video?
They gave an example of some isolated farmers in Mexico who were dead sure they had a pure stock of seeds they never had any contact with others and when tested they were shocked to find out it was contaminated.

reply to post by XLR8R

*H1N1 Vaccine resposible for a slew of misscarrages, no proof but the facts or astonishing. (Depopualtion?)

This site has a listing of links and other info on De-Population: www.whale.to...

I also ran across a UN report that showed unexplained ACROSS THE BOARD decreases in population. It was unexpected to the researcher because cities have an expected lower birth rate in Africa than do farming communities. Kids on farms are free labor, kids in the city are another mouth to feed.

Unfortunately I lost the link some where in my massive number of bookmarks.

Think Agenda 21:

Who controls the food supply controls the people; who controls the energy can control whole continents; who controls money can control the world. – Henry Kissinger.

And then read this: link

US babies mysteriously shrinking

Birthweights in the US are falling but no one knows why, according to a study of 36.8 million infants born between 1990 and 2005.

A 52-gram drop in the weight of full-term singletons – from an average of 3.441 to 3.389 kilograms – has left Emily Oken's team at Harvard Medical School scratching their heads. It can't be accounted for by an increase in caesarean sections or induced labours, which shorten gestation. What's more, women in the US now smoke less and gain more weight during pregnancy, which should make babies heavier...

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


No, that is called "natural selection", and is something which nature can do. Genetically modifying means going in and adding things which nature, would never do. IE: adding scorpion genes to cabbage. Nature would never do this.

I do agree with your premise of moving to hydroponics though, I also feel each area, done correctly, could grow just about any food that people may want. Especially if we do so by going UP.

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

This is obviously futuristic, but the idea is solid.

I saw an interesting video about GMO foods, and what people thought a few months ago. A reporter was in a grocery store, and would ask customers what they thought of GMO foods. Most people had no clue what they were. Some knew what it was, and stated they would never eat it. Some said that nothing was wrong with it. What all but just a very few did not know, was that almost all processed foods in a grocery store has GMO products inside of it.

So even the customers who knew what GMO foods are, were not aware that they most likely eat GMO foods every day of their lives. I wish I could remember the name of it the video so I could post it.

Also, you can't always trust that foods called "organic" are really organic any longer.

You can't always trust an organic seal. If fact when it comes to milk can be a challenge. Some of the bigger producers have gotten a pass to certain standards. This is why I am an advocate for buying from small local producers. Most big corporations can't keep high quality and high volume at the same level.

www.youtube.com...

Anyway, GMO in my mind equals very bad for not only our health, but the health of the planet.

Harm None
Peace