Kilroy Silk was right

Originally posted by 1Ting4SureWeAreNotAlone
give me a real argument with real names of people.

I dunno.

Mother Theresa of Calcutta?
Mahatma Ghandi?

Or are those two off the top of my head not Arabic in your book?

Originally posted by muppet
Arab contributions?

you mean contributions like mathemetics, the number zero, algebra, modern trigonometry, the calendar, latitude, longitude, the rotating earth theory; advances in medicine including the understanding of contagion, the diagnosis of small pox, and measles, many medicines, surgical stitches, architecture, irrigation, the first accurate maps, (the ones our early "explorers" used), navigation, horticulture, botany, the water wheel, cisterns, the camera obscura, the discovery of comets, mirages, tides and the ground work for modern optics, music, geography, philosophy, politics....

They were very height of civilisation, culture, and modernity when we were in the dark ages, and the saviours much of the scientific and philosophical thinking that helped bring about the Enlightenment in Europe.

why do people forget that arabs gained much things from europe by conquering most of eastern europe and former roman lands?

mathematics were discovered in many cultures around the world, the number zero was first used in south american cultures, calendar? umm there isnt only one calendar used in every culture you know, chinese culture was far more advanced in medicine than anyone on earth, so many things you failed to notice about what you posted.

Originally posted by Banshee
Mahatma Ghandi?

umm he was a hindu not an arab.

Originally posted by namehere


why do people forget that arabs gained much things from europe by conquering most of eastern europe and former roman lands?

mathematics were discovered in many cultures around the world, the number zero was first used in south american cultures, calendar? umm there isnt only one calendar used in every culture you know, chinese culture was far more advanced in medicine than anyone on earth, so many things you failed to notice about what you posted.

1. The issue is the contribution of said concepts to the Western world. It is not the discovery thereof.

2. The chinese were advanced, yes, but the West didn't meet them until the 1500s.

3. The fact of the matter is that all those things listed, the arabs either gave to the West for the first time or refined them well beyond the capacity that the West had.

DE

Originally posted by namehere
why do people forget that arabs gained much things from europe by conquering most of eastern europe and former roman lands?

mathematics were discovered in many cultures around the world, the number zero was first used in south american cultures, calendar? umm there isnt only one calendar used in every culture you know, chinese culture was far more advanced in medicine than anyone on earth, so many things you failed to notice about what you posted.

I'm terribly sorry, I should have said "most accurate calender of the time" not calendar. I stand corrected.

but what exactly is your point in relation to the thread?

Whilst i do not agree with 1ting4surewearenotalone l do believe that the UKIP are not in any way racist as the BNP.They are the only party at the moment who are concerned with Britain independance especially with our standing within europe.At the moment in the majority of Britain`s towns there is a growing concern that we are lossing our own identity and culture.It is not helped that Muslim community leaders want seperate schools to teach Muslim children.Recent case of school girl exbelled from school for wearing her traditional dress when the school forbides religious dress wear and icons.Recent court case ruled in favour of the school now they are taking to european court.I am not a racist but l believe that when other nationals of every religion and backround enter this country a mutual undersanding and respect must be shown on both sides with regards laws and religion.Schools should teach to understand all faiths and respect them.At the moment most inner cities muslim communities prefer to except there own.
I am British and want Britain to remain prodominatly British.I believe that imigration into this country should be made strict.
As for Kilroy Silk his comments have been investigated by crown prosecution service and no charges will be made.
In a recent survey by the UKIP 25% of Britains questioned admitted that they are unhappy with Britain and are actively looking into relocating abroad.At the moment the Australian Embassy are inundated with applications from British nationals.
If nothing is done soon there is a real possibility parties such as the BNP will take hold and that is not what any normal person wants.

We should never use a blanket statement for what some may
do to cover an entire group of people.
Who do you think translates for gov't. agencies the terrorists messages????

www.arabicnews.com...

Originally posted by muppet

I'm terribly sorry, I should have said "most accurate calender of the time" not calendar. I stand corrected.

but what exactly is your point in relation to the thread?

that arabs didnt advance everything we know, that much was learned from other cultures by conquest not by peaceful means.

Originally posted by namehere


that arabs didnt advance everything we know, that much was learned from other cultures by conquest not by peaceful means.

So? Has the West ever done anything peacefully? We admit that arabs didn't advance everything we know...oh, pork chop sandwiches, the western world was in a dark age at the time, and the arabs had to reteach us EVERYTHING!

DO you really think a Visigoth circa 800AD is going to sit down quietly and listen to a scholar?

DE

Originally posted by DeusEx

So? Has the West ever done anything peacefully?

DE

no but this thread is about arabs being all peaceful and all knowing so it has nothing to do with the way the west is

Originally posted by weirdo
Whilst i do not agree with 1ting4surewearenotalone l do believe that the UKIP are not in any way racist as the BNP.They are the only party at the moment who are concerned with Britain independance especially with our standing within europe.At the moment in the majority of Britain`s towns there is a growing concern that we are lossing our own identity and culture.It is not helped that Muslim community leaders want seperate schools to teach Muslim children.Recent case of school girl exbelled from school for wearing her traditional dress when the school forbides religious dress wear and icons.Recent court case ruled in favour of the school now they are taking to european court.I am not a racist but l believe that when

-->>>>>other nationals of every religion and backround enter this country>> "inner cities muslim" communities prefer to except there own.>>>I am British and want Britain to remain prodominatly British.>>>actively looking into relocating abroad.>>>At the moment the Australian Embassy are inundated with applications from British nationals.

Hey, I simply object to the West holding Arabs to historical standards it doesn't meet itself. If you can't see there is obvious bigotry towards Muslims and Arabs at the moment, that's your issue.

DE

Originally posted by weirdo

I am British and want Britain to remain prodominatly British.

By that do you mean white? I mean, if British Blacks, Asians, or Arabs, were the majority, would Britain be any less British? Is a country only defined by it's skin color?

i feel bad continuing this thread. the issue of arabic contribution to society and the failure of the muslim community in britain to denounce terrorism sufficiently are two separate things. i believe the original post was to do with the former. anyone who doubts the contributions of the arabs to western civilization needs to buy a 5th grade level history book and learn to read it.

American Muslim Social Scientists
REGIONAL CONFERENCE ON
Muslim Contribution to Human Civilization
www.khwarzimic.org...

forums.gawaher.com...

and some assorted quotes regarding islam and the renaissance:

HRH, The Prince of Wales, Islam And The West
. . . we have underestimated the importance of 800 years of Islamic society and culture in Spain between the 8th and 15th centuries. The contribution of Muslim Spain to the preservation of classical learning during the Dark Ages, and to the first flowering of the Renaissance, has long been recognized. But Islamic Spain was much more than a mere larder where Hellenistic knowledge was kept for later consumption by the emerging modern world. Not only did Muslim Spain gather and preserve the intellectual content of ancient Greek and Roman civilization, it also interpreted and expanded upon that civilization, and made a vital contribution of its own in so many fields of human endeavour -- in science, astronomy, mathematics, algebra (itself an Arabic word), law, history, medicine, pharmacology, optics, agriculture, architecture, theology, music. Averroes and Avenzoor, like their counterparts Avicenna and Rhazes in the East, contributed to the study and practice of medicine in ways from which Europe benefited for centuries afterwards.
Islam nurtured and preserved the quest for learning. In the words of (the Prophet's) tradition "the ink of the scholar is more sacred than the blood of the martyr." Cordoba in the 10th century was by far the most civilized city of Europe. We know of lending libraries in Spain at the time King Alfred was making terrible blunders with the culinary arts in this country. It is said that the 400,000 volumes of its ruler's library amounted to more books than all the of the rest of Europe put together. That was made possible because the Muslim world acquired from China the skill of making paper more than four hundred years before the rest of non-Muslim Europe. Many of the traits on which Europe prides itself came to it from Muslim Spain. Diplomacy, free trade, open borders, the techniques of academic research, of anthropology, etiquette, fashion, alternative medicine, hospitals, all came from this great city of cities. Mediaeval Islam was a religion of remarkable tolerance for its time, allowing Jews and Christians to practice their inherited beliefs, and setting an example which was not, unfortunately, copied for many centuries in the West. The surprise, ladies and gentlemen, is the extent to which Islam has been a part of Europe for so long, first in Spain, then in the Balkans, and the extent to which it has contributed so much towards the civilization which we all too often think of, wrongly, as entirely Western. Islam is part of our past and present, in all fields of human endeavour. It has helped to create modern Europe. It is part of our own inheritance, not a thing apart.

Akbar S. Ahmed, Living Islam
It is well to recall that Islam not only caused Islamic civilization to develop but also enabled the European Renaissance to take root and grow. The time when Islam was most strongly established was also the time when art, culture and literature flourished, whether in Spain or, later, under the Ottomans, the Safavids and the Mughals. Christian Europe was enveloped in darkness until Islam came to the Iberian peninsula. For centuries Islam fed Greek, Sanskrit and Chinese ideas into Europe. Slowly and steadily Europe began to absorb those ideas. In England, France, Germany and Italy society began to explore literature and art with a new perspective; thus the seeds of the Renaissance were sown. -- p. 15

James Johnston, Medieval Script Shows Islam's Role in Learning
The manuscript stands as a uniquely important monument to the central role of Jews and Muslims in the spread of knowledge and learning throughout medieval Europe, as well as being possibly the earliest known example of Latin script of any kind written on paper. Sotheby's says that only four other copies of this work are known.

Washington W. Irving, Tales Of The Alhambra
As conquerors [Muslims], their heroism was equaled only by their moderation, and in both, for a time, they excelled the nations with whom they contended. Severed from their native homes, they loved the land given them as they supposed by Allah and strove to embellish it with everything that could administer to the happiness of man. Laying the foundations of their power in a system of wise and equitable laws, diligently cultivating the arts and sciences, and promoting agriculture, manufactures and commerce, they gradually formed an empire unrivaled for its prosperity by any of the empires of Christendom . . .
The cities of Arabian Spain became the resort of Christian artisans, to instruct themselves in the useful art. The Universities of Toledo, Cordova, Seville, Granada, were sought by the pale student from lands to acquaint himself with the sciences of the Arabs and the treasure lore of antiquity. -- p. 52

Martin Wainwright, Our Debt to Islam
While the barbarians smashed and burned in western Europe, the Arabs and Persians used the libraries of Alexandria and Asia Minor, translated the scrolls and took them to Baghdad and far beyond. In distant Bukhara on the Silk Road to China, a teenager called Abu Ali Ibn Sina was engrossed in Aristotle's Metaphysics at the age of 17. The year was AD997 and the text - central to the subsequent development of philosophy - had long been lost and unknown in western Europe.

Jared Diamond, Guns, Germs, and Steel
In the Middle Ages the flow of technology was overwhelmingly from Islam to Europe, rather than from Europe to Islam as it is today. Only around A.D. 1500 did the net direction of flow begin to reverse. -- p. 253

-koji K.


[edit on 3-7-2004 by koji_K]

Originally posted by DeusEx

DO you really think a Visigoth circa 800AD is going to sit down quietly and listen to a scholar?

DE

Aren't you being a bit ignorant and prejudiced there?

Your are presuming all Visigoths were barbarians and stupid.

In the end you cant say ban UKIP or even the BNP, if you did that you'd damaging democracy.

[edit on 3-7-2004 by TPL]

Originally posted by namehere
that arabs didnt advance everything we know, that much was learned from other cultures by conquest not by peaceful means.

I undertand. You're right, Arabs didn't contribute EVERYTHING, but that wasn't what I said. I was pointing out that Arabs and contributed somewhat more than the NOTHING 1Ting was suggesting.

Maybe I'll just list a few names I've come across while looking for the answer. All off the web sorry. As you know they don't teach us much Arab history in the UK.

Al-Biruni, Ibn Khatib, Ibn Khatima, Ibn al-Nafis, Ahmed ibn Majid, Ibn al-Awam, Al-Haytham, al-Kindi, al-Farabi, Ibn Sina. I hope 1Ting has fun looking them all up.

Originally posted by DeusEx
Hey, I simply object to the West holding Arabs to historical standards it doesn't meet itself. If you can't see there is obvious bigotry towards Muslims and Arabs at the moment, that's your issue.

DE

theres bigotry and hate between many cultures today, i dont feel sorry for arabs, its just how it is, they arent special and neither is any other culture, arabs may have done many things but many arab countries have not advanced much farther since the middle ages, it has been a cycle of arab advances, western, arab, western so if anything its been equal contribution for thousands of years for both cultures.

Originally posted by TPL

Aren't you being a bit ignorant and prejudiced there?

Your are presuming all Visigoths were barbarians and stupid.

Hmm...99% of them couldn't read, couldn't do math, and spent their lives wreaking havoc and plundering. Really, is it a far leap?

DE

I agree, advances do seem to cycle between east and west, and in different areas of science.

Originally posted by DeusEx

Originally posted by TPL

Aren't you being a bit ignorant and prejudiced there?

Your are presuming all Visigoths were barbarians and stupid.

Hmm...99% of them couldn't read, couldn't do math, and spent their lives wreaking havoc and plundering. Really, is it a far leap?

DE

If you provide evidence then i shall agree with you.