Poll: ~75% of Muslims in Egypt, Pakistan favor stoning people for adultery

Originally posted by Mdv2

All the nations in the survey view Al Qaeda negatively with only Nigeria coming close to a favorable majority at 49%. In Lebanon only 3% of those polled view Al Qaeda as favorable.

As far as Islam’s role in politics, almost all nations believe the role of Islam in politics is a good thing with Egypt and Indonesia polling at 95% saying Islam should play a large role in politics.

75% of Muslims polled in Egypt and Pakistan favor the following laws in their countries: 1. stoning people who commit adultery, 2. whippings and cutting off of hands for crimes like theft and robbery and 3. the death penalty for those who leave the Muslim religion.

Majorities in Jordan and Nigeria also favor such laws.

Large majorities in several countries say suicide bombing and other acts of violence against civilian targets in order to defend Islam from its enemies are never justified.

The following countries participated in the survey: Egypt, Indonesia, Pakistan, Nigeria, Lebanon, Jordan and Turkey.

Nothing surprising, even though the MSM tends to portray Islam as a threat against the West. Islam isn't, but unfortunately there are millions of Muslims who do support terrorism and plentiful who are actively involved in terrorist activities. Nevertheless, it's good to see it reconfirmed that most Muslims do not support terrorist organizations and suicide bombings.

They should learn some lessons in human rights though. Stoning people for adultery, how sick. We're not living in the 14th century anymore.

www.examiner.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

edit on 6-12-2010 by Mdv2 because: (no reason given)

Nothing surprising, even though the MSM tends to portray Islam as a threat against the West. Islam isn't, but unfortunately there are millions of Muslims who do support terrorism and plentiful who are actively involved in terrorist activities. Nevertheless, it's good to see it reconfirmed that most Muslims do not support terrorist organizations and suicide bombings.

Islam Is indeed a threat, just look how bosina is doing under a Islamic strict controlling people still dont have jobs, men becomes boss of there wives, Muslims skipping Christmas holidays, yet before the war everyone was happier then they are now.

but unfortunately there are millions of Muslims who do support terrorism a

millions? Oh Really? wheres your proof, those who dont support the radicals are only a minority not a majority

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
Islam Is indeed a threat, just look how bosina is doing under a Islamic strict controlling people still dont have jobs, men becomes boss of there wives, Muslims skipping Christmas holidays, yet before the war everyone was happier then they are now.

I think you'll find that Bosnia-Herzegovina is far from being under ''strict Islamic controlling people''.

Muslims form less than half of the country's population, and even if you take away the Republika Srpska self-autonomous region, then they still won't even make up two-thirds of the population.

Bosnia-Herzegovina is angling towards EU membership in the next 10-15 years, so I doubt that they are too strict...


Has it not occurred to you that ''everyone was happier then they are now'' is largely down to the aftermath of the slaughter, rape, and other atrocities, that blighted the Balkans less than twenty years ago ?

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


Although I disagree with both, their is a HUGE difference between stoning to death and capital punishment that we have here in the US.

The two can't even be compared.

One has you die slowly and aginizingly at the hands of the PUBLIC that surrounds you!!!

The other is usually done in private and is done swiftly as to not torture the individual. (atleast in the US)

Originally posted by Steam
Although I disagree with both, their is a HUGE difference between stoning to death and capital punishment.

Stoning to death is capital punishment !

Originally posted by Steam
The two can't even be compared.

They can easily be compared, as I've just done so.

Do you imagine it's any nicer in the electric chair or a gas chamber ?

Originally posted by Steam
One has you die slowly and aginizingly at the hands of the PUBLIC that surrounds you!!!

The other is usually done in private and is done swiftly as to not torture the individual. (atleast in the US)

The public are allowed to watch executions in the US, in the form of the victim's families, prison guards, and other employees of the penitentiary where the execution takes place.

While it's not at the hands of the general public, the execution is still conducted and viewed by the public.

Um .......killing those who wantonly take the life of another in a relatively humane manner after an exacting process of law and extensive appeals procedure.


Compared to.....................the often arbitrary execution of those choosing to leave or 'insult' Islam, or commit adultery - often based on the flimsiest evidence, with confessions extracted by torture.


I really shouldn't need to say this - but there is something wrong with anyone drawing some sort of moral equivalence between these!

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood
Um .......killing those who wantonly take the life of another in a relatively humane manner after an exacting process of law and extensive appeals procedure.

Of course, because you were no doubt brought up in a society where this crime was frowned upon more than others, so your opinion on it is bound to be biased.

I don't see anything remotely ''humane'' about frying someone in an electric chair, intentionally poisoning their bodies with toxins, or putting them in a gas chamber.

Whatever floats your boat, I guess.

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood
Compared to.....................the often arbitrary execution of those choosing to leave or 'insult' Islam, or commit adultery - often based on the flimsiest evidence, with confessions extracted by torture.

The laws and procedure are not arbitrary.

They are defined by the lawmaking bodies in the country, just as Western laws are defined by the lawmaking bodies in our countries.

Who says they are based on the ''flimsiest of evidence'' ? Have you got a source for that ?

Torture is something that most people frown upon, and of course, has never been authorised by a POTUS ( ! )

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood
I really shouldn't need to say this - but there is something wrong with anyone drawing some sort of moral equivalence between these!

With respect, I'd say that there's something wrong with someone who can't appreciate the moral equivalence between the two.... Unless they lived in a gold-fish bowl.

I suggest you do a personal survey about the 'moral equivalence' of these actions amongst your friends and neighbours - you might then get some inkling of just how 'wrong' this is!

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood
I suggest you do a personal survey about the 'moral equivalence' of these actions amongst your friends and neighbours - you might then get some inkling of just how 'wrong' this is!

And I'd suggest that my friends and neighbours are almost entirely made up of people that live, and have been raised, in the same culture that I have.

Therefore, they're hardly a wide selection of people to discuss laws and morality with, other than the laws and morality that they've been personally indoctrinated with in their society.

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


So none of which would be legally deemed 'murder'.
en.wikipedia.org...

A point of law.

However, you are correct to say that we USED to condone practices similar to those practiced by some / most / all Muslim controlled countries.
And at that time some of those countries were relatively tolerant.
But we have progressed and are far more tolerant and understanding and far less brutal and repressive whereas those self same Muslim countries, and some would argue Islam in general, has regressed.
Surely that's not something to defend and respect?

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes

Has it not occurred to you that ''everyone was happier then they are now'' is largely down to the aftermath of the slaughter, rape, and other atrocities, that blighted the Balkans less than twenty years ago ?

Spoken like a true brainwashed sheeple

is largely down to the aftermath of the slaughter, rape, and other atrocities,

I am really surprised americans and even British sheeps still believe the claim of Muslim women who were raped now live in nice Bosnian Islamic backed houses for the so supposed victims.

Remember one supposed victim who claimed was raped by the Serbian solider yet somehow she had a black baby? sigh since when there were black soldiers in eupore?

Oh by the way the so called Serbian rape camp has never been found, plus it is documented all these so called victums are been funded or at least are getting there money by the bosnian goverment installed by the west.

As long the story of the rape lives, thus spreads the hatred against the serbs who lived in sarajevo.

Has it not occurred to you that ''everyone was happier then they are now'' is largely down to the aftermath of the slaughter, rape, and other atrocities, that blighted the Balkans less than twenty years ago ?

No and it seems your not to aware on what happened in the region oh and did you know halliburton was given contracts before the wars in kovoso and wars in the balkans started?



Alot of my freinds in the region there tell me they see another war a coming,yet you wont be able finger pointing the war on the serbs this time.

Originally posted by Freeborn
So none of which would be legally deemed 'murder'.
en.wikipedia.org...

A point of law.

You are just echoing my point !

In 2010, if a convicted murderer was hung in a prison, an intruder was shot dead by a game-keeper, or a witch or a heretic was burnt by villagers, then what crime would the perpetrators be convicted of ? Murder.

What we judge as murder these days, would not be considered as such in days gone by, which illustrates my point that it was perfectly acceptable to commit murder ( under the current definition ) in Western countries, such as Britain, until not too long ago.

Originally posted by Freeborn
However, you are correct to say that we USED to condone practices similar to those practiced by some / most / all Muslim controlled countries.
And at that time some of those countries were relatively tolerant.

Like I say, it's cultural relativism.

Your use of the word ''tolerant'' is a bit of a paradox here, because displaying antipathy to another culture's morals and laws is a sure sign of intolerance.

Originally posted by Freeborn
But we have progressed and are far more tolerant and understanding and far less brutal and repressive whereas those self same Muslim countries, and some would argue Islam in general, has regressed.
Surely that's not something to defend and respect?

''We'' are far more tolerant, yet you appear to be completely intolerant of another culture's values and laws.

The ''some that would argue'' are mainly Westerners who judge other cultures by their own Western standards and upbringing, rendering the judgement futile from an objective basis.

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood
I suggest you do a personal survey about the 'moral equivalence' of these actions amongst your friends and neighbours - you might then get some inkling of just how 'wrong' this is!

And I'd suggest that my friends and neighbours are almost entirely made up of people that live, and have been raised, in the same culture that I have.

Therefore, they're hardly a wide selection of people to discuss laws and morality with, other than the laws and morality that they've been personally indoctrinated with in their society.

edit on 6-12-2010 by Sherlock Holmes because: (no reason given)

Look - it's really quite simple.

Being intolerant of someones desire to choose thier own religion or sexual partner to the point of killing them - is not moraly equivalent to being intolerant of someone who intentionally kills other people.

It doesn't need to be analysed it is just obvious!


Suppose Muslims were apt to kill anyone who preffered tea to coffee - is that equivalent as well?

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


I don't believe in this moral relativism BS, its just another form of "political connectedness"

Just because a different culture has a twisted mentality (in my western view of course) doesn't mean that it is "equally moral".

Some acts are more moral than others.

If some culture performs human sacrifices then yes this act is UNIVERSALLY immoral and is not "right' just because you can say that it is "relative" anyways.

There are "basic" human rights and morals that every human being on this planet is born with.

There is always a "more" moral choice that humans have used since the beginning of time.

Such as not killing people in the group since this would affect the groups fitness and survival.

Stoning to death is not moral since it uses CRUEL and EXCESSISIVE punishment for such a crime.

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
Spoken like a true brainwashed sheeple

Using a term like ''sheeple'', in an attempt to belittle my perspective, and curry favour with other posters on this site, is rather pathetic.

I think the invocation of the word ''sheeple'' is the ATS equivalent of ''Godwin's Law''.

Poor show.

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
I am really surprised americans and even British sheeps still believe the claim of Muslim women who were raped now live in nice Bosnian Islamic backed houses for the so supposed victims.

What happened to these women, then ?

The raping of women was systematic as a tool of war amongst all sides, so I doubt you'd be able to categorise and pigeonhole any particular woman, amongst the tens of thousands, who got raped during the Yugoslav civil war.

Do you think that systematic murder, torture and rape, would not have an effect on people living in the former Yugoslavia today, less than 20 years after the conflict ?

Bosnia-Herzegovina mightn't be the greatest European country to live in, in 2010, but they are still trying to recover from the damage of the civil war ( as are a lot of the other countries, such as Croatia, Macedonia, and even Serbia ).

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
Remember one supposed victim who claimed was raped by the Serbian solider yet somehow she had a black baby? sigh since when there were black soldiers in eupore?

No, I don't remember.

I'm going to have to have a bit more than an anecdotal or apocryphal story online, to believe a bizarre and illogical claim from someone who posts on an internet message board.

Please tell me you're not trying to deny the mass murder and rape of Bosnian villagers, such as the notorious example in srebrenica, with thousands of witnesses ( including UN ''peacekeepers'' from the Netherlands ) ?


Next thing we know, you'll be claiming that the Hutus and Tutsis were just having a picnic in Rwanda, in 1994.

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
Oh by the way the so called Serbian rape camp has never been found, plus it is documented all these so called victums are been funded or at least are getting there money by the bosnian goverment installed by the west.

Are you crazy in the coconut ?

There's nothing about a ''rape camp'' that I am aware of. Systematic rape occurred - along with systematic killing and torture - when armed groups of Bosnian Serbs, with the support of the ex-Yugoslav military, descended upon Bosnian villages and towns.

I'm aware that a lot of the conflict was ''six of one, and half a dozen of the other'', and no side was ''right'' or ''wrong'', but to misrepresent the facts of the conflict ( as you have done ), is the same as someone who misrepresents the fact of the Holocaust in WWII.

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
No and it seems your not to aware on what happened in the region oh and did you know halliburton was given contracts before the wars in kovoso and wars in the balkans started?

Why should any security firm's contracts in the region alter my opinion of the conflict ?

Correlation does not imply causation.

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
Alot of my freinds in the region there tell me they see another war a coming,yet you wont be able finger pointing the war on the serbs this time.

The Yugoslav civil war was just a free-for-all amongst various factions and ethnic groups.

The reason that the Serbs got the bad press is because the ethnic Serbs in Croatia and Bosnia were supported by the Yugoslavian army, which, by the time of the civil war and all the ramifications, was mainly composed of soldiers from Serbia-Montenegro ).

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood
Look - it's really quite simple.

Being intolerant of someones desire to choose thier own religion or sexual partner to the point of killing them - is not moraly equivalent to being intolerant of someone who intentionally kills other people.

This is even simpler...

Judging a culture's morals and cultural practices is based upon the axiom that the judger's cultural morality is the ''correct'' one. This is abundantly untrue.

Ergo, your ''pecking order'' of things that should and shouldn't be done in your society is ridiculous, on a larger scale.

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood
It doesn't need to be analysed it is just obvious!

Only ''obvious'' in a culturally biased perspective.

I prefer objectivity to my rationalisations.

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood
Suppose Muslims were apt to kill anyone who preffered tea to coffee - is that equivalent as well?

Absolutely.
Just as those that were deemed to be ''of the devil'' were tortured and murdered by Christians in the West, over the years.

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes



Shows the lack of knowledge you know about the conflict that took place,

The usa supported and funded and even ordered middle east Mujahedin there are even videos of them training to kill Serbian and Croatians civilians to further spread the influence of Islam and the western influences and finally reduce the Russian influences it once had on the region during the 1960s through the 80s.


The war was designed to stop the spread of the russian influence.

The Yugoslav civil war was just a free-for-all amongst various factions and ethnic groups.

Again only for the press and Civilian to further claim up there accusations of a so called ethnic war

Please tell me you're not trying to deny the mass murder and rape of Bosnian villagers, such as the notorious example in srebrenica, with thousands of witnesses ( including UN ''peacekeepers'' from the Netherlands ) ?

srebrenica was a mixer of Serbs and Muslims, oh yes sorry i am not buying the The Srebrenica massacre , besides counting the dead bodies with a DNA testing has been proven false if not trusted by most courts in canada and america.

Another thing.

The bosnian Srebrenica foundation or rather the Islamic bosnian government keeps playing with the number game yet they keep placing the graves with there Islamic markings.

with thousands of witnesses

Right ever heard of fake and paid witnesses during war times?

Just so you know i believe the Holocaust but not the Srebrenica massacre.

What happened to these women, then ?

They live happily in there rich houses compare there lives to the poorer families in Bosnia.

Why should any security firm's contracts in the region alter my opinion of the conflict ?

www.globalresearch.ca...


Oil In Kosovo,Camp bondsteel was never meant for the protections of serbs or Albanians it was meant to protect the oil piplines in Kosovo, It was meant to further compelete the southern oil steam line in the blakan region, which by the way serbia Yugoslavia refused the project in the past.


So a war was needed to gather the oil reverses and keeping the russians at bay with there hands full..


Oh? whats this CIA already has plans for the future of Kosovo
www.globalresearch.ca...

Originally posted by Steam
I don't believe in this moral relativism BS, its just another form of "political connectedness"

No it isn't.

The only way that morality can be absolute, is if there's an arbiter of those absolutes.

Not everyone believes in God, and those that do, completely differ on what ''God'' thinks is right or wrong.

Originally posted by Steam
Just because a different culture has a twisted mentality (in my western view of course) doesn't mean that it is "equally moral".

Cultural relativism, once again.

What you think is ''twisted'', is normal to someone else, just as what someone else thinks is ''normal'', is twisted to you.

Different cultural versions of morality are, by definition, amoral, and are in the eye of the beholder.

Originally posted by Steam
Some acts are more moral than others.

If some culture performs human sacrifices then yes this act is UNIVERSALLY immoral and is not "right' just because you can say that it is "relative" anyways.

No, human sacrifices aren't immoral, let alone ''universally'' immoral.

Human sacrifices were quite common practice in some American Indian tribes; are you telling me that you'd be against that, if you were brought up in that society ?

Originally posted by Steam
There are "basic" human rights and morals that every human being on this planet is born with.

Have you got a source for that, or are you just projecting your own personal feelings and beliefs on to everybody else ?

Originally posted by Steam
Such as not killing people in the group since this would affect the groups fitness and survival.

That is just bunk logic.

Many people suffered terribly short lives and deaths, because their community didn't think that they were ''fit''.

Don't think that humans in 2010 are any different to those 10,000 years ago.

Originally posted by Steam
Stoning to death is not moral since it uses CRUEL and EXCESSISIVE punishment for such a crime.

Unlike slowly burning someone alive in an electric chair... ?

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
The usa supported and funded and even ordered middle east Mujahedin there are even videos of them training to kill Serbian and Croatians civilians to further spread the influence of Islam and the western influences and finally reduce the Russian influences it once had on the region during the 1960s through the 80s.

I need a source for this.
Please show me footage of Mujahedin troops training to kill Serbs and Croats, or a source that validates your claim about Middle Easterners in the Balkan wars...

The rest of your points are opinion orientated, and have no basis in objective reality.

Do you really think that the only two European nations with a Muslim majority ( Bosnia-Herzegovina and Albania ), remotely have an influence in current European politics and diplomacy ?

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
The war was designed to stop the spread of the russian influence.

Again, I'd like a source for this ( the inside of your head doesn't count ).

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
srebrenica was a mixer of Serbs and Muslims, oh yes sorry i am not buying the The Srebrenica massacre , besides counting the dead bodies with a DNA testing has been proven false if not trusted by most courts in canada and america.

Sorry, this is where I have to cease the replies to your previous post:

What would be the difference in the DNA markers between the Bosnian Muslims and Bosnian Serbs, if such a test was actually conducted ?


What is the genetic difference between a Bosnian and a Serb ?

reply to post by Mdv2


Maybe they should do a poll in Western nations to find out how much they favor CIA, Mossad and M16, as all these three organizations use the same tactics as Al-Qaeda.

Regarding Stoning etc, they are laws, they have nothing to do with Human Rights.

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
The usa supported and funded and even ordered middle east Mujahedin there are even videos of them training to kill Serbian and Croatians civilians to further spread the influence of Islam and the western influences and finally reduce the Russian influences it once had on the region during the 1960s through the 80s.

I need a source for this.
Please show me footage of Mujahedin troops training to kill Serbs and Croats, or a source that validates your claim about Middle Easterners in the Balkan wars...

The rest of your points are opinion orientated, and have no basis in objective reality.

Do you really think that the only two European nations with a Muslim majority ( Bosnia-Herzegovina and Albania ), remotely have an influence in current European politics and diplomacy ?

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
The war was designed to stop the spread of the russian influence.

Again, I'd like a source for this ( the inside of your head doesn't count

).

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
srebrenica was a mixer of Serbs and Muslims, oh yes sorry i am not buying the The Srebrenica massacre , besides counting the dead bodies with a DNA testing has been proven false if not trusted by most courts in canada and america.

Sorry, this is where I have to cease the replies to your previous post:

What would be the difference in the DNA markers between the Bosnian Muslims and Bosnian Serbs, if such a test was actually conducted ?


What is the genetic difference between a Bosnian and a Serb ?

edit on 6-12-2010 by Sherlock Holmes because: (no reason given)

www.youtube.com...
Starts
6:15 -6:37 ends
Daniel Fried Assistant Secretary of State of
Euporean Eurasian Affairs.


Stated during a closed door meeting of Georgia Conflict 2008
To prevent russia drawing new lines in eupore under the sphare of influence



Mujahideen propaganda
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...


British Bosnia - A British M15 Agent most likely In Bosnia
www.youtube.com...

Bosnia - Bosnia - child soliders child soliders
www.youtube.com...
bosnian muslims using child soliders

UN Troops Carrying High Ranking Officals from there own UN Vehicles
www.youtube.com...


The Mujahideen came into by the united states air force in tuzla.


Any other proof you Islamic apologist need?



By the way this video was never talked about by the western press
Its a Islamic Flag this Bosnian child is holding the flag of the Mujahideen.

The Flag Of The Mujahideen In Black Color

Bosnia - Bosnia - child soliders child soliders
www.youtube.com...
bosnian muslims using child soliders





The Pro Mujahideen comments are proof more then i need.