Should "Creationism" be considered a sign of insanity?

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
So is that any different than the mindset of the "Militant Muslim`` or ``Militant Christian``

edit on 6-12-2010 by Blue_Jay33 because: added a line

Mindset of a militant religious = murder the person whom disagrees
Mindset of a militant athiest = this guys an idiot.

Yes...there is a difference.

Originally posted by TheWill
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Success!!! I've found it! I knew there had to be a reason that some of the early replies used a word out of context,
Plus reaching the logical conclusion when you said it was a social experiment, I went back and read your original post
At least 3 times before I found it. Yes, I tend only to read the topic sentence of long paragraphs rather than reading
Right through (ironic for someone who has trouble writing a paragraph less than 6 lines long). But finally, at last, I
Know what the social experiment was.
Late, but better late than never.
E.

edit on 6/12/2010 by TheWill because: (no reason given)

Now to see the problem...
go through the first...well, go through all 10 pages, and see how many people have put it in somewhere...

you will find...4 people total

Do you understand the problem...if ATS is a place where the credo is to deny ignorance, than chances are, the 4 is actually a high number in general population standards...nobody listens, everybody talks. Its almost like a mental illness.

and -that- is actually the sub plot of this thread...and is actually more dangerous than the actual topic for our civilization.
Having an opinion is one thing, ignoring anything that may change it is another.

Finally someone is getting the picture, yes i do believe it is a sign of insanity, or a mental disorder, which in many cases can be linked to schizophrenia.
Thousands (even hundreds) of years ago, if you heard voices in your head, that meant god was talking to you, today this is called schizophrenic.

Sparkles.

To say the "whats in this book is how the universe works, everyone else is wrong, and they are also the devil" is another way of saying "this book is making generations after generations not know w hat is real and fake, i have lost my mind, now i think everyone who thinks differntly is evil"

There could be a supreme creator, but most likely that creator doesnt know we even exist, out of all the planets in the cosmos of all the galaxies, why would this creator come to this small rock, to write a book, that isnt even accurate? Simple, because he never did, it was made by the vatian as a means to control the populas.

God is the physical laws of the universe, to many this is an emotionalingly unsatisfying answer, there is no point in worshipping gravity, unless there is something wrong with you.

I didnt watch the videos, you are preaching to the choir.

reply to post by SaturnFX

You are conditioned by western society to not have passion in action, but rather just in anonymous postings. This is your issue...there is nothing you can say that will show westboro baptist church to be anything but a perfect example of how christianity is supposed to be. you have to resort to how you personally feel verses what is written..you will twist the bible and ignore massive clearly written chunks of it..

See, here is a point where I much disagree with you. You used the word "Christian" and that denotes a follower of Jesus Christ. Nowhere in any teaching of His own did Jesus ever condone hatred, bigotry or violence against others. So Westboro Church is a clear example of EXACTLY how not to follow Christ, which is what Christians should assumedly do. Using those loons as examples of Christianity is as insulting as to me as using a suicide bomber to portray all of Islam. There is no basis for that other than the need to paint everyone of a particular faith with the same bigoted brush to suit your own purposes.

I also have to add that yes, I disagree with homosexuality, abortion and several other "religiously hot" issues. It is God's place to judge, however. I will state my opinion and beliefs on the matter, but I would never personally condemn or viciously attack someone for their deeds. I know that you catch more flys with honey than vinegar, see. Those people don't need another attack, they need to see that there is unconditional love out there. I Do love EVERYONE, just not always the things they choose to do. But trying to browbeat and intimidate them into my way of belief is the complete opposite of what any Christian should ever do.

reply to post by SaturnFX


No, the implication is that saying the person is not fat is a falsehood, yet many consider it to be a noble lie. It is natural, a part of our culture to lie to a person in this situation. Perhaps the truth is overrated? One can logically link the now to the past and end up with "nothing." One can logically progress the now, the time frame one's mind is focusing on, to the future and end up with the concept of evolution. The "nothing" could be considered unfathomable, a god or creator of sorts. Also, our "realities" were in the very least created by parents or society before we were old enough to reason. So, we definitely have creators of sorts in the very least. If one FOCUSES on evolution, we just "progress" according to how parents/society dictates. If one focuses merely on creation, we don't progress past the original blueprint of the "creator." Both concepts are flawed without the other, in my opinion. Also, if the world and individual progress can be thought of merely in terms of evolution, shouldn't you keep your godlike mouth shut about banning certain religious beliefs? After all, if they are not fitting the needs of the culture, social evolution will sort them out. But no, you want to intervene and play creator. How interesting. Maybe that is why you don't like the concept of a creator. Steals your thunder, ha ha. No God, I am God.

It shouldn't be considered a sign of insanity. It IS a sign of insanity. Anyone who believes in it is a delusional human being and seeks professional help.

I don't hate these people, I just feel so bad for them.

reply to post by orwellianunenlightenment


From an evolutionary perspective, correcting them makes sense as
a) reciprocal altruism - you save them from one mistruth and they may save you in your hour of need (= ignorance) at a later date, out of gratitude. Being saved obviously enhances fitness and through allowing for greater productivity through an extended lifespan.
b) understanding evolution may represent an individual selected unit which causes, like a prion causes healthy proteins to become like itself, the host to spread it - a self propogating "meme" of social evolution,
c) it may be kin selection - if you are related to these people - socially or biologically - and can increase their fitness by altering their beliefs, you increase your own fitness by association.
d) in the most basic terms, being right could be seen as a signal of quality to potential... well, think a little bit about biology and complete that sentence yourself.

point is, these are just some of the adaptionist explanations of trying to explain evolution to a creationist, and non-adaptionist evolutionary explanations can include that the urge to correct them has a genetic basis which is not sufficiently self-limiting to remove itself from the gene-pool, or even that it is by mere accident that this tendency has arisen (thank you SJ Gould, and RIP)

reply to post by TrailGator

Originally posted by TrailGator
have you not done the very same thing from the opening post? calling creation believers ignorant,

They are.
Most (if not all) of them don't even know a definition of the word "evolution", most of them are uninformed as to the meaning of the word "theory".

constantly repeating that they 'didn't read' your original post,

...they didn't read Saturn's original post.

and repeatedly mocking and demeaning them?

Creationists on ATS do things that are ridiculous in the most literal definition of the word: Deserving of ridicule.

I believe by faith in my Creator. Yes, by faith.

Hence, by ignorance. I do not know yet I choose to believe.

But the simple fact is, since NO ONE was there when whatever happened...happened

*facepalm*

*le sigh* I guess I'll have to repeat this example again. I seem to have to repeat it at least once a week.

If you walked into your house and found your TV, computer, DVD player, and jewelery missing with a broken window and clear signs of frantic searching, would you not conclude that someone probably broke into your house and stole that stuff?

We're in the same situation scientifically. We see the obvious evidence of things. Galaxies are moving, if we track that movement backwards we see that they were all in the same place at one point.
Species are evolving, if we track that evolution backwards we all had a common ancestor.

The evidence points to things quite clearly.

- whether a big bang, a gradual evolving, or an instantaneous creation spoken into existence by a Creator God.

...the big bang theory is a cosmological theory, gradual evolving is a biological theory, and the last one is religious nonsense.

No, faith is the operative word here, whether one has faith in a deity creator, or that transspeciation is possible, when its never actually been observed.

Oh transspeciation, Ken Hamm must be so proud. There is no such thing as 'transspeciation'. There's just speciation.
We've observed it quite often.

Of course, you'll just say that it's variation within 'kind', when nobody has ever defined what the creationist 'kind' is. Some say that all dogs are a 'kind' while both zebras and horses belong in the same 'kind', which shows a blatant ignorance of biology.

The use of the word 'transspeciation' is ignorant.

If you wish to have faith in your so-called science,

It's not faith, it's based upon rigorous testing. And you have an equal amount of faith in it, you are using a computer and internet connection after all. Those are based on the exact same scientific method that gave us the scientific theories that relate to the origins of the universe, life, and biodiversity.

thats fine with me, but then let us peacefully have faith in our creator beliefs.

Well, we do let you have faith. The problem is that your creator beliefs are based entirely on ignorance of science.

Dont act so smug and arrogant about something you cannot be certain of.

It is impossible to be certain of pretty much anything. The problem here is that we aren't being smug or arrogant, we're being more or less sure of something. We know evolution occurs, we've observed it and we have mounds of evidence to support it.

You, on the other hand, have a lot of ignorance of science coupled with some superstitious beliefs.

reply to post by slowisfast


I'm sorry, but the Westboro church is just as Christian as any other Christian church. The differences are doctrinal.

Hell, Christians are easy to say that any group they disagree with aren't Christians. Some Catholics don't consider Lutherans as Christians, some Lutherans don't consider Catholics Christians, etc.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


Yes, the militant YouTube atheists that are so militant that they 'preach' by...talking about how stupid creationists are...and....make videos detailing how hateful certain pastors are...and...make videos that you don't really have to watch and are subject to public discussion.

The atheist community on YouTube is a bunch of fairly nice people (for the most part) that aren't really 'preachers' so much as they are responders. Atheists have been a relatively quiet voice in the discourse throughout history, so now that we have a public forum in the west we're now "preachers".

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by slowisfast

 

I'm sorry, but the Westboro church is just as Christian as any other Christian church. The differences are doctrinal.

Hell, Christians are easy to say that any group they disagree with aren't Christians. Some Catholics don't consider Lutherans as Christians, some Lutherans don't consider Catholics Christians, etc.

i understand what you're saying regarding doctrine.
but it's their actions i call in to question.
they don't act like a group of people who have had a heart/life change
that would be associated with conversion to faith.
they act as if they use their 'doctrine' as protection from which behind they can spew their hate.
to use language from the bible, it's the 'fruits of their labor' i call in to question.
but who am i to judge anybody. i'm a messed up dude.

Op, what is the difference between this and other anti-jew/christian/islam forums? I am wondering?

Again, people do not understand the thought process of a beliefs. The word is faith, nonetheless. You cannot argue those with faith. Most logical christians will probably keep away the idea of a evolutional planet. Obviously, most hardcore christians are probably 60 years old plus.

Faith is different. You even have faith that you will wake up alive tomorrow eating a bowl of cereal

Originally posted by jennybee35
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

You are conditioned by western society to not have passion in action, but rather just in anonymous postings. This is your issue...there is nothing you can say that will show westboro baptist church to be anything but a perfect example of how christianity is supposed to be. you have to resort to how you personally feel verses what is written..you will twist the bible and ignore massive clearly written chunks of it..

See, here is a point where I much disagree with you. You used the word "Christian" and that denotes a follower of Jesus Christ. Nowhere in any teaching of His own did Jesus ever condone hatred, bigotry or violence against others. So Westboro Church is a clear example of EXACTLY how not to follow Christ, which is what Christians should assumedly do. Using those loons as examples of Christianity is as insulting as to me as using a suicide bomber to portray all of Islam. There is no basis for that other than the need to paint everyone of a particular faith with the same bigoted brush to suit your own purposes.

I also have to add that yes, I disagree with homosexuality, abortion and several other "religiously hot" issues. It is God's place to judge, however. I will state my opinion and beliefs on the matter, but I would never personally condemn or viciously attack someone for their deeds. I know that you catch more flys with honey than vinegar, see. Those people don't need another attack, they need to see that there is unconditional love out there. I Do love EVERYONE, just not always the things they choose to do. But trying to browbeat and intimidate them into my way of belief is the complete opposite of what any Christian should ever do.

edit on 12/6/10 by jennybee35 because: clarity

However, the old testiment is filled with lots of hate, judgement, etc etc etc.
Jesus was a nice guy..no doubt..if christians were a bit more christlike, then things would be pretty good in the world, however...Christ said he was here to fulfill the old testiment. he sacrificed himself to remove the sacrifical tenants of sin (aka, no need to kill off goats and doves and whatnot), however, the rest of the stuff is still in play.

Yes, God still hates homosexuality, and shellfish, and sin, etc. Jesus was not here to overrule the 10 commandments, nor was he here to invalidate the old testiment. All he did was come to remove the hypocracy of the church, and to remove the blood sacrifices by offering himself up as the final blood sacrifice...

Most of the points christ made are lost..they are not followed, so what is followed is still the old testiment.
Christians rarely follow christ...they follow Paul normally and his visions and interpretations. You can thank the crusades for that one.

Originally posted by jennybee35
I will state my opinion and beliefs on the matter,

Well, lets be honest here...they aren't -your- opinions...as a baby, you had no opinion on the matter. As you grew, you were taught how to think by those whom influenced you...you were programmed to have certain opinions, and what your left now is pre-programmed data being shoved out...like playing a tape recorder of what others have told you to say, but in a slightly nicer voice (assumption, you sound nice..women have more pleasing voices).

in nature, homosexuality is not a concern to animals...the worry about homosexuality in humans is actually unnatural..the act itself is neither here nor there.

I personally do not like homosexual behavior...I also recognise fully that is a product of my environmental teaching. when I was a child, I didn't care whatsoever about it, but as I grew older, I was told how to think about it. Its hard to reprogram a brain that was indoctrinated so young...but hey, something to be said about at least recognising the error in programming...fixing it is another matter.

I do not remember christ mentioning anything about homosexuality. Nor is it in the ten commandments. I do feel that you are taking a book apart for your own benefit in this thread.

Also, large amounts of rumours were created against the relationship between Jesus and John apsotle. Most of these were question due to their almost homosexual relationship. Which is not the case at all. Furthermore, if christ knew everything (accepting he is the Messiah). then he would of obviously precevied the idea of past present and future to know that he was hangin with a possible homosexual (john the apsotle). If he was so concerned he probably would have kicked out John the apostle

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by SaturnFX
, but I would never personally condemn or viciously attack someone for their deeds. I know that you catch more
However, the old testiment is filled with lots of hate, judgement, etc etc etc.
Jesus was a nice guy..no doubt..if christians were a bit more christlike, then things would be pretty good in the world, however...Christ said he was here to fulfill the old testiment. he sacrificed himself to remove the sacrifical tenants of sin (aka, no need to kill off goats and doves and whatnot), however, the rest of the stuff is still in play.

Yes, God still hates homosexuality, and shellfish, and sin, etc. Jesus was not here to overrule the 10 commandments, nor was he here to invalidate the old testiment. All he did was come to remove the hypocracy of the church, and to remove the blood sacrifices by offering himself up as the final blood sacrifice...

Most of the points christ made are lost..they are not followed, so what is followed is still the old testiment.
Christians rarely follow christ...they follow Paul normally and his visions and interpretations. You can thank the crusades for that one.

Well, I cannot argue with any of this post. There are precious few, and by few I mean a shockingly small amount, of people who are really followers of Christ. That being said, you do realize that the judgements handed down in the O.T. were God's judgements, only meted out after ample warnings and pleas to repent and return to Him? He has never carried out an unjust judgement. He has always given ample warnings and lots of time to change. That is why it is not my place to practice on the judgement that God has spoken of.

My place is to speak the love and truth of Yeshua, the only way any of us can ever be fit to learn the truth about our ultimate goal: Yahweh. Our main goal is a personal relationship with our Creator. Sadly, I don't really know of but a few who are willing to quit listening to men and their lies long enough to hear what Yeshua speaks.

Actually I think it is the other way around.

Insanity is just a result of Creationism, but first you have to believe in Creationism.

Why does this thread even exist? Insane? really? thats like saying that people that are bi-polar should be in the nut house. Things like this are kind of insulting, I don't even know why people fight about this stuff, nothing can be solved by putting them together. Religion is based on Faith, not Logic. Closest logic you will be able to put with faith is History and Geography.

Science is just a more direct and complexed religion in itself if you ask me.

Well, it's great to see others who have a problem with those who put their "faith" into creationism. I was raised as a methodist, became an atheist at sixteen when I could not fathom there being a man in the sky that counts my mistakes, and still cannot grasp how people see it as fact.

With creationism being the largest subject of blatant ignorance I've seen in my life. It's hard for me to hold my tongue when I hear them talk up how some deity created our universe in an instant but took five more days before finishing a mere blue spec. Then he needed a day off for rest, although I doubt an omnipotent being would need such a mortal thing. And this all happened less than 10,000 years ago, yet we have proven the age of the Earth at approximately 4 billions years and the universe at 13-14 billion! And still people believe in what the bible preaches to them...

Sometimes it makes me sad to see how delusional 95% of our species are.

reply to post by SeventhSeal


Quess what?Some of us are even armed!
I have a C.C.W. and I'm a member of the
USCCA.I believe in God and creation!