Muslims celebrate the death of 40 Israelis in huge forest fire.

reply to post by Yissachar1


from what i can make out,

one i am not questioning your service to this country nor to be honest give a toss (i know and have family which serve/d this country)

what i do question is your service to Israel as like islamic fanatics its guided by faith not out of duty for ones country. Israel isnt your country to defend but your obliged by your faith to do so (unless you serve Israel other then following the jewish faith?)

also Peace Years ago if thats what they wanted? plenty of chances Israel choose to ignore as they need to house people like your self who would risk taking their familes to yes a warzone to expand their boarders.

Peace now is kind of Dead due to the fact Israel is reluctent to stop building in occupied palestine (which as stated is against UN laws)

also Think what you like about me

edit: your comparing council tenents who pay Rent to someone living in a building built on forign soil in an occupied area, when did council homes count as homes built on occupied land?

reply to post by flymetothemoon


I'm trying to put it in perspective, most Muslims feel Israel is at war with Palestine, so they can't help but root when one of the bad guys gets killed, especially since they were prison guards. Then we are also still expected to give Israel a pass on everything and to give them special treatment, any crime or slight against them is made to seem like such a big crisis including this one. Given their track record, they definetley should not be given this treatment at all, and should be treated like the pariah they are. There is just a lot of double standards and hypocrasy where this is concerned.
If 5 Palestinians died in that fire and Israelis were seen celebrating many wouldn't see anything was wrong with that because they will say that its the Palestinians fault for making the Israelis hate them by all the bombings and rocket attacks, if it even would be reported on.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
reply to post by Rosha

 

and wasn't it humane of those countries to aid Israel, and lay differences aside if only for a moment?

hi..which comment are you reffering to?

If you are talking about sending fire trucks..imo...no, as that act will eventually be used as propoganda to kill more children. Denying them assistance, will also have an effect, and will most likely be used to further justify their persection complex..but it is the lesser of two evils as I see it...children alive..children dead..the equation is simple for me.
Sadly, that is how any hand of friendship with Israel has been utilized in the past. There has to come a time, like in South Africa where the line is drawn and people start to say NO. My line starts here and points Israel back to its own actions and the responsibility it has for its own outcomes.

Generally speaking though... if the aid is given to both sides..equally...then its real "aid" and can at least to be said to be unbiased in intent - a support of each party in equality. When its given only to one side..no..its politics...manipulation...patronisation and its handing a valuable tool of propoganda to the receiver.

Military aid alone:
During Fiscal Year 2009, the U.S. is providing Israel with at least $7.0 million per day in military aid and $0 in military aid to the Palestinians.

(View Sources & More Information here www.ifamericansknew.org...)


Ironically...if Israel knew what real 'aid' meant..they'd know the Palestinians are getting by far the better part of that bargain atm, by way of building solid relationships with the EU and other nations..in the repurcussions of the honest giving and care love and support from a plethora of humanitarian groups, individals and aid workers, groups like MSF and others who give without judgement and only offer care and support...things which..in the future..will be more practical and helpful than bombs and guns can ever be as this helps these people retain a soul and retain their dignity and helps them to retain their humanity and awareness knowing for certain that the entire world doesnt hate them or think as Israel does...just knowing that there are still peoples free to choose and think out here...that 'goodness' still exists...is a powerful thing.

In that same framework..Israel needs to know they are ultimately being given the tools their own suicide and demise by the US and others who give them arms....as these things cause and bring only death both of body mind and soul to the peoples using them. I would question any 'free gift' of such death, and wonder rightly, why anyone would want me to have more weapons when they already know the weapons I have are killing my spirit....enslaving my people...and leaving me to die in darkness.

The issue of 'doing' 'with the best of intentions' and untintentionaly feeding future propoganda a very real one on both sides..and we - the 'rest of us' - that are not infected by the hatred or affected directly do have to think carefully and act with great caution in any matter to do with these two nations.

Its not just how the Israelies will use those fire trucks and any assistance given them to solidify their actions' and social 'acceptableness' in the international commnity and so justify their hold on Gaza, but also, thinking another step, its also how the Palestinians will eventally use that care, love, support they are recieving and wether or not they too will use that support one day as a platform for healing the rift or as fodder for more war too just as Israel did as regards those nations that supported, hid, fed and aided them during the 2nd world war war...as then, and under the cover of peaceful intentions, they went on to make war and became their own oppressors...will Palestine do the same but worse as Israel has become a more horrific version of the reich?

Its a weird matter of perspective I guess....and knowing that every action and inaction matters...symbolically and literally.

Originally posted by Unilluminist
reply to post by flymetothemoon

 

I'm trying to put it in perspective, most Muslims feel Israel is at war with Palestine, so they can't help but root when one of the bad guys gets killed, especially since they were prison guards. Then we are also still expected to give Israel a pass on everything and to give them special treatment, any crime or slight against them is made to seem like such a big crisis including this one. Given their track record, they definetley should not be given this treatment at all, and should be treated like the pariah they are. There is just a lot of double standards and hypocrasy where this is concerned.
If 5 Palestinians died in that fire and Israelis were seen celebrating many wouldn't see anything was wrong with that because they will say that its the Palestinians fault for making the Israelis hate them by all the bombings and rocket attacks, if it even would be reported on.

Your perspective i guess was not based on your own experience. I could give you another perspective as well. Just this is about a fire. This could happen in your country as well. Should people laugh at you and celebrate the dead people, because they don't agree with your politics ?

And you don't have to worry that people won't see anything wrong if Israelis celebrate dead palestinians. There have already been plenty of posts about that !

I wonder if they have reason....

mondoweiss.net...

From the piece I read on BBC web site 2 things stood out for me:

1. The Turks have sent special fire fighting planes to help out ..... I thought the Turks hated the Israelis after the aid ship murders.

2. There is some talk of the fires being started deliberately ... dunno what that is about but Israel is unable to deal with it and has put out a 'plea for help'

I find that quite funny in that as soon as Israel needs help they squeal like pigs and everyone is supposed to rush to their assistance .... yet they can make life unbearable for Palestinians for years and anyone who tries to stop them is castigated, or worse murdered.

Such hypocricy is sickening.

The good news is it shows Israel is not as invincible as it thinks it is and has some weak points which will give it's enemies some encouragement.

reply to post by bigyin


Yes! Soon the so called state of Israel will be whipped off the map for good!
Thank God for that!

Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel
reply to post by bigyin

 

Yes! Soon the so called state of Israel will be whipped off the map for good!
Thank God for that!

Yes I would like to see Isarel removed as an entity. I would like to see members of all faiths living in peace on the land with walls removed, illegal settlements removed and displaced Arabs able to return to their lands.

We will call the land Palestine or some other name ..... but not Israel

reply to post by bigyin


You know as a believer of God! I see this Israel as the anti Israel. There is nothing Jewish about this country. This is classic Imperialism!

Now I'm not a fan of Israel, but we have an old saying in my country: Dead people are not enemy. These 40 men also had lives, families, dreams, be it good or bad ones, and even talents and experience what cannot be replaced at all. Forty died in vain, regardless where they were from. There is nothing to celebrate in people's death.

reply to post by FlyersFan

Being aware of what Islam is isn't 'phobia'. It's called being smart. Islam is a horrid sex cult. It's founder was a liar and a mass murderer who faked visions of god in order to gain political power over people and to gain wealth. The Qu'ran is so full of errors and contradictions that it's a pathetic mess. The Islamic version of an afterlife is an abusrd unending sex orgy for men and eternal whore-dom for women. The cult is a misogynistic stinkhole. Being aware of all these facts, and being aware of the fact that many in the cult push it at the point of a bloody sword (just as their ancestors did when they destroyed vast and ancient thriving civilizations across the middle east and north africa) ... being aware of these facts is SMART .. not 'phobia'.

Most of those lies were spread by Craig Winn's book Prophet of Doom and have been debunked. Other people spreading that are just Christian Zionists like John Hagee and other preachers with similar views, they all base their theology off of a heretical interpration of the Bible, then spread anti Muslim propaganda to help justify there extremism. The MIC that makes a lot of money off of war against Muslims also funds many of the think tanks that promote Islamophobia like Frank Gaffney. Just like there are a few Christian preachers like Hagee and his ilk that twist the Bible around to suit their own agenda, there are a few Muslims that do this, but this is not a majority, and other Muslims reject it too.

Here is one of the main anti Islam crtics being caught repeating all the same lies you tell on neocon Mike Gallagher's show and even he was forced to admit Winn was making the stuff was made up about Islam.
Craig Winn EXPOSED! Part 1 of 2
www.youtube.com...

You people that still spread all the fear about Islam don't care about our country and if it goes bankrupt fighting neverending war in the middle east and if we turn into a police state at home.

Hey as long as we keep getting our dividends from the MIC and big oil for now until we get taken away in the rapture when the second comming happens none of that matters right?

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by Sentinel412
There is nothing to celebrate in people's death.

edit on 3-12-2010 by Sentinel412 because: (no reason given)

[/quote


Well said Sir

reply to post by flymetothemoon


It already happened in Mexico after 9/11 durring a soccer game, and I understand why they don't like us, I wouldn't either if I was in Mexico or other 3rd world countries. We have to clean up our act if we want to be treated with respect, so does Israel.

Originally posted by no special characters
Can you please change your topic title to something that doesn't condemn a whole religion because of a few comments on some forum ?

I might be against the muslim religion but topic titles like these are just not a good idea.

The OP is a Christian Zionist, he would do anything to push for his agenda to fulfill the prophecy, so that Jesus might come back and bum him out.

Anyways..

I feel sad for the deaths, at least those deaths and suffering are natural, the Palestinian deaths and suffering is orchestrated by the Zionists.

Originally posted by oozyism


I feel sad for the deaths, at least those deaths and suffering are natural, the Palestinian deaths and suffering is orchestrated by the Zionists.

It won't surprise me one bit if after the flames have been put out the Zionists come out with some story about the whole thing being the fault of Arabs somewhere.

They don't miss a trick

Originally posted by thegoodearth
reply to post by Romantic_Rebel

 

I have to ask why you get into these things when you are
an atheist?

Thats is one of the silliest posts I have seen on ATS......

I am an atheist..Should I ignore all the news about death and hate caused by religion?
Do you also then think skeptics should never get involved in UFO threads?

reply to post by Rosha


How is that valid??? That is like a child saying "I know you are but what am I?" How ridiculous. I ask you for facts.. You give me some over dramatized crap and request sources and info from me?? How is that logical? Then, you stand by your point, by saying "This is how Israel works" .. Pathetic at best.

Take a seat and listen: I do not like Israel. I think Israel has it's hands in 90% of the negative global problems. I wish there was a standing army that was willing and able to overthrow the Israeli Govt. and sort out the evil from good.

Israel has been playing the victim card for long enough. We get it! Hitler was bad, and you were mistreated. The world does not owe Israel a thing.

Now, does that take away any of your pre written anti-Israel anti Zionist garbage that you are going to repeat over and over until the earth ends or your life comes to a close?

The only thing that changes, is the incident in question or the hostile climate in the area.

I only gave opinions. Either your comprehension skills need some fine tuning or you didn't read what I wrote. I simply was giving my opinion on this situation.

I went back to get your quote... But you have deleted it and rewritten most of the post.

You basically said "I was just on another forum discussing this and there were several NON Muslims applauding this dreadful act."

All I did, was ask you for links to these web sites. Then you got defensive because you never went to another site, and saw what you said you did. I called you out on it, and asking for the links. You then delete your words and replace them with questions and sources, that you are now demanding answers to your newly written questions, before you will answer anything.

Are you sure your not a defected IDF? That's pretty snake like and mighty dirty... IMHO


I will continue on this thread, only because most of the folks here have intelligent opinions. They are basing their arguments on opinions and facts.... Not lies and smoke!

Have a good day... I feel great.... I realized that debating you on this would be waste of my time... You are simply not qualified.

Maybe one day, you will start earning the respect of your fellow Anti-Israeli Govt. folks... Your willingness to post intentional lies....will one day, help you in posting the truth more confidently.

reply to post by backinblack


I hate to agree with Black ---- But... what does one have to do with the other? It is very telling that a person would say that and think the things that led to that post... The real problem is buried in there somewhere.

reply to post by oozyism


I knew I could count on you Oozy... Your anti-Israel script is like the sun... If you wait a little bit.. It will pop up. I think I might be a psychic!!!... I predicted on page 1 that you would be visiting in the near future.