Can China Invade Taiwan?

Nuclear non-proliferation will be king.

Nuclear disarmament will be king.

Or the world is doomed.

the most likely event is a cold war but lets hope that doesnt happen either as there is always the a change of the resulating arms race or build up causing the once cold war to become hot. There was a cold war and arms race before 1914 but the cold war became hot and many many poeple parished in the most brutal modern era war.

lest we forget.

A cold war may dampen china's ambition to take taiwan. However, it's highly unlikely - the US and China's interests are heavily intervined. China doen't desn't have to compete with the US for influences around the world, she just need to focus on taiwan and that's all.

Besides, China's number one target for now is Japan, not Taiwan. Chinese top leaders believe that taiwan would cease to be an issue if China lead on a course of destroying Japan. What would be the causes - the potential conflicts over oil-rich eastern sea and a small isle. China has begun the commercial production of oil and gas from the rigs on the sea, and Japan is getting jumpy. Japan want to see a war between China and the US real bad, in order to reap big benefits. On the other hand, every Chinese has this secret wish - to put out japan once and for all. Now the Chinese have the capabilities, what they lack is the resolute, the excuses, and a window of opportunity. China is kind of waiting Japan to make the first move, fire the first shot (i.g, attacking Chinese oil rigs), and is prepared to take some initial losses to her naval force. If that happens, China would gladly deal Japan a deadly blow - not just the destruction of its production capabilities, a blow that will turn Japan back to stone age, literally. Only through this way, will japan stop being an grave menace to the central kingdom.

It would be interesting to see how the US would defend japan, arm japan with nukes? or launch nuke strikes against China?

Chinese believe that justice was not done in 1945 and thereafter, especially when they learn that Japanese want to forget and deny the brutalities they committed in China. Funny thing is, now japanese claim they are entitled to an seat in UN security council, that they make such big contribution to the rightful cource of the world, and that they share the prevailing international values, blahblahblah....., at the same time, their children are being told lies such as "Japan entered (not invaded) China and other asian countries to liberate the peoples from the opression of western colonists and emperialists, or they never meant to harm they just wanted the whole east asia to follow japan's lead to prosperity....". Chinese don't take this well, they don't believe this is the common value that the world should share. (Convicted war criminals are being mourned at their national shrine, well, they say: no disrespect to the world, it's just the way their unique culture, phylosophy and value go, hahaha, where is justice, where is morals?)

Strangely, the US take japan's abnormal practices quite well, yet It's understandable to Chinese - the US are so busy dealing with China's rise, that she is willing to let the morals down the drain to make herself feel safer. Japan is such an important pawn that should not be censured.

IF there is ever a cold war over the pacific, that could only be between China and the US, and it will harm both like a hot war would. But the war between CHina and Japan would be different, that could well be the last war between them.

I know this is off topic, but since someone metions this I have to ask:

What does Chinese people (excluding CCP) want from Japan?

Didn't Japanese prime ministers and emperors in the past apologize several times already? And recently Koizumi also apologized.

I am also wondering what specific things that Germany did post WW2 which Japan hasn't done?

It is also ironic. When Japan invaded Korea, China and other east asian countries, they also use things like "we have the same skin colors, similar culture" etc as their propaganda. Now China is using similar propaganda on Taiwan.


[edit on 28-9-2005 by twchang]

Japanese want to forget and deny the brutalities they committed in China. Funny thing is, now japanese claim they are entitled to an seat in UN security council, that they make such big contribution to the rightful cource of the world, and that they share the prevailing international values, blahblahblah....., at the same time, their children are being told lies such as "Japan entered (not invaded) China and other asian countries to liberate the peoples from the opression of western colonists and emperialists, or they never meant to harm they just wanted the whole east asia to follow japan's lead to prosperity....". Chinese don't take this well, they don't believe this is the common value that the world should share. (Convicted war criminals are being mourned at their national shrine, well, they say: no disrespect to the world, it's just the way their unique culture, phylosophy and value go, hahaha, where is justice, where is morals?)

The US is satisfied the war is over. Atrocities were on both sides. The US never brings it up cause the war is over. It's practically ancient history. My dad fought WWII on a cruiser in the Pacific and he never spoke a harsh word about the Japanese. Go figure. The CCP fears Koizumi might be the PM with the clout to restart the nukes program that is why they berate him. They want money Japan invests allot of money in China. Japan should lighten it's payment to the UN. 19% is what they currently pay. While Russia and China, who sit on the security council and are the source of weapon proliferation, pay 2.1 and 1.1% of the UN budget.

Originally posted by bodebliss
Atrocities were on both sides. The US never brings it up cause the war is over. It's practically ancient history.

I suggest you read up in history. The Chinese did not commit any atrocities. It's not over if Japan consistently denies and play down it's own crime.

www.gendercide.org...

China by far lost the most amount of civilians in WWII, many times more than the numbers of Jews killed by the Germans.

ww2bodycount.netfirms.com...

Originally posted by bodebliss
They want money Japan invests allot of money in China.

Actually Japan invest money in their own self interest, they didn't do it to help China. It's the recent growth in China that help Japan pull out of their 20 year recession.

Originally posted by bodebliss
Japan should lighten it's payment to the UN. 19% is what they currently pay. While Russia and China, who sit on the security council and are the source of weapon proliferation, pay 2.1 and 1.1% of the UN budget.

Think about how much money Japan invest in their almost non-existent military? They need to invest more heavily in the UN in case they were attacked.

The CCP killed 50 million chinese. Are they trying to make their own evil look smaller?

They just said they would sacrifice the most populated part of China in a nuclear war with the US. This could lead to the death of 700-900 million chinese. Are you ready?

Oh great and masterful CCP, what plans for the masses of chinese do you have?

But the CCP didn't kill them for fun like the Japanese did. The majority of these civilians died because of the famines and great leaps which in turn was the result of horrible leadership from Mao. He didn't do this because he enjoyed it, but because his peacetime leadership sucked. The Japanese on the other hand held massacre games.

Mao had an emporer complex and those close to him that retreated from hierarchy and escaped to write books in the West, said he didn't care how his policies effected peasants and if millions died to implement his plan so much the better.

Hitler said as much and was condemned.

I'm sure Mao was condemned as well. But that has nothing to do with Japan's apology. Just because Mao did poorly doesn't mean the Japanese are off the hook. Many other Asian countries are seeking an apology from the Japanese for what they did in WWII as well. You can forgive them easily because they didn't do as much to your country. Would you still say the same thing had they invaded your country, destroyed entire cities, killed 10 million, raped all the women and girls, and beheaded all the children?

Japan should lighten it's payment to the UN. 19% is what they currently pay. While Russia and China, who sit on the security council and are the source of weapon proliferation, pay 2.1 and 1.1% of the UN budget.

Japan is a developed country, perhaps even more so than the US. They don't need to spend money on development. China on the other hand is a developing country. And Russia is just poor.

Originally posted by Taishyou
I'm sure Mao was condemned as well. But that has nothing to do with Japan's apology. Just because Mao did poorly doesn't mean the Japanese are off the hook.

That is the wierd thing...I don't think he was condemned...isn't his portraits still hung over places in Beijin?

It is not just he did "poorly." He did those things for his own gain. You can consider both Mao and Chiang as some sort of emporer who has absolute power...which people gave them...Chinese was so used to a absolute leader they support Mao eagerly, and didn't question him.

Many other Asian countries are seeking an apology from the Japanese for what they did in WWII as well. You can forgive them easily because they didn't do as much to your country. Would you still say the same thing had they invaded your country, destroyed entire cities, killed 10 million, raped all the women and girls, and beheaded all the children?

I think you have to be careful here. I know the KMT and CCP taught us all these great atrocities committed by Japan, but they are part of propaganda. Japan's invasion is wrong, and many innocent people died. But CCP and KMT actually over blow the facts. For example, a lot of photos shown by CCP and KMT are cut and edit in ways that mislead people. Unfortunately a lot of these are just taken as facts after they are published and retaught over and over.

Japan was wrong, but believing totally in what CCP and KMT said is not very good. I don't think it is worth it to be over zealous over Japan's apologies since they have apologize many times I think. And in the end Japanese people suffered as well when US fire bombs and nukes their cities. Some form of forgiveness might be worth it as well.



[edit on 29-9-2005 by twchang]

[edit on 29-9-2005 by twchang]

Japan is probably on it's tenth apology now to every country.

I don't think there is anything more to be got out of it.

The CCP just wants more free money in their private accounts.

Originally posted by bodebliss
The CCP killed 50 million chinese. Are they trying to make their own evil look smaller?

I'd like a source which can proove those deaths were the fault of the CCP please.

Originally posted by bodebliss
They just said they would sacrifice the most populated part of China in a nuclear war with the US. This could lead to the death of 700-900 million chinese. Are you ready?

I do believe they said "They would risk a nuclear war with America to protect themselves."

Originally posted by bodebliss
Oh great and masterful CCP, what plans for the masses of chinese do you have?

By the looks of things, fairly decent ones.

Last I checked China's population below the poverty line was going down...not happening in your back yard is it?

Originally posted by Odium
By the looks of things, fairly decent ones.

Nuff said

hrw.org...

Just some bedtime stories (or are all of these fabrications???)

China: End Censorship of Internet
Tibet: Monk Spirited Away by Security Forces
Restrictions on AIDS Activists in China
Tiananmen 16 Years Later
Religious Repression of Uighurs in Xinjia
Architecture of Xinjiang Suppression Detailed
Take Tough Action To End China's Mining Tragedies
Tibet: Monk Leaves Prison a Broken Man
China: Crackdown on Activists Widening

Originally posted by FredT
China: End Censorship of Internet

Maybe the media should just start saying the truth instead of what they thought happens?

Also this whole idea makes no sense, due to the increased numbers of Chinese citizens coming over to the U.K. to study politics and the introduction of low-level direct democracy in China.

Originally posted by FredT
Tibet: Monk Spirited Away by Security Forces

Again they don't say what this monk said but that he has been arrested. How can anyone make a judgement on this when we do not know the facts of the case?

Originally posted by FredT
Restrictions on AIDS Activists in China

Again the article says; "officials deserve praise for finally beginning to confront the epidemic".

Don't expect it all at once, no Nation does that however they are moving in the right direction.

Originally posted by FredT
Tiananmen 16 Years Later

Again whose side of the story should we listen to?

Should we take the Western View on what happened this day over the Chinese? Maybe every Nation should stop changing their history?

Originally posted by FredT
Religious Repression of Uighurs in Xinjia

And to some religions this still happens in the U.K. but again China is moving forward and not back.

Originally posted by FredT
Architecture of Xinjiang Suppression Detailed

Could not find that story.

Originally posted by FredT
Take Tough Action To End China's Mining Tragedies

They have been attempting to do that?

I do believe China has just began to put in more laws on the miners.

Originally posted by FredT
Tibet: Monk Leaves Prison a Broken Man

Originally posted by FredT
China: Crackdown on Activists Widening

Couldn't see this one either.

China Threatens First Strike, out of the Blue, No provocation.

Read details(been sleeping Odium?):

They state they are willing to lose the most populated part of China!?!

www.taipeitimes.com...


Here's the story of the ingrained systematic killing Dialectic of the CCP:

clearwisdom.net...

Odium , I give this for you to read, but it won't sink in because you only wish to sugarcoat evil. You need to examine that.

Japan is probably on it's tenth apology now to every country.

They haven't issued a single official apology. All they did was have their politicians say "oh... sorry about that" and they don't even mean it. They still go visit the war shrine to pay respects to their buried war criminals.

The CCP just wants more free money in their private accounts.

The apology is not something that just the CCP wants, but what every person in China wants, as well as what every person in other countries that were affected by Japan wants.

That is the wierd thing...I don't think he was condemned...isn't his portraits still hung over places in Beijin?

What kind of a party would condemn itself and its own leaders? If the Nazi party survived they would have their Hitler picture hung up too. Mao is criticised by the population, but the CCP wouldn't do that because otherwise they would lose face.

No, bodebliss, you are making out as though the view of General Zhu Chenghu is the view of the whole of the CCP and of Hu Jintao.

They also do not quote directly what he said;

Source "If the Americans draw their missiles and position-guided ammunition on to the target zone on China's territory, I think we will have to respond with nuclear weapons," the official, Maj. Gen. Zhu Chenghu, said at an official briefing.

Oh and forget to mention that he is only a dean of the Defense Affairs Institute for China's National Defense University and not that important however is one of the better known military analysts.

He also in recent years went from his 'Front Line' Position in the Institute for Strategic Studies to the Department of Military Training for Foreigners which of course became the Defense Affairs Institute. Which means he doesn't get as much public air time, however they keep him in thier army. They side-lined him...

[edit on 30/9/2005 by Odium]

" They still go visit the war shrine to pay respects to their buried war criminals. "

Yasukuni Shrine also houses the ashes of 2.6 million dead soldiers. Our President goes to Arlington cemetary and confederate soldiers are buried there.

Yasukuni is a religious shrine and a man under the UN human rights convention is allowed religious freedom to worship as he pleases.

There was a civil case on Koizuml's visits and the plaintiffs lost . Because Japan recognizes the right of religious freedom also.

I'm sure he'll go again before the year is out.

This is about money.The billions in foreign aide Japan gives to China Goes right into the pockets of the CCP. The CCP only allows sanctioned riots for the press to parlay. All others are crushed mercilessly.








[edit on 9/30/2005 by bodebliss]

Odium ,

He didn't just wisper to a coworker who leaked it to the press.

He called a press conference and shouted out his(?) views.

This like the CCP Letting it be known they have gone to a "First Strike" policy, and he didn't lose his job?









[edit on 9/30/2005 by bodebliss]