The Good Guys - They do exist

I can see where you are coming from sublime, although I don't agree with it....those who support(ed) Saddam make up but a fraction of Iraq - When you rule with an iron fist you may have personal success, but you easily isolate and frighten innocent neutral parties. His rule was so powerful that any alternatives on how to improve certain situations were muted by his presence alone, and then by force if neccessary. To me, that constitutes a man that is unwilling to accept change, which is one the most important aspects a politician should embrace.

[edit on 8/7/2004 by EnronOutrunHomerun]

Sublime,

It's a fair point but I wouldn't put Saddam in quite the same category!

He was a strong leader, certainly, but how much better could Iraq have turned out if it had remained a democracy? He stood up for Iraq, but did he actually benefit it? Did his actions actually leave iraq in a better state than he found it? he was a strong leader, but he also allowed the country to disintergrate on his watch.

I'd have to say his faults more than outweighed his positive aspects!

Aw - Come on Now

How could a discussion about who the good guys are possibly come down to this? (Discussing the merits of Saddam)

Honestly! Should we advocate this kind of behavior in our leaders? Maybe Saddam should have come over here before we went over there to free us from the oppression of our government - the way they are letting us run around with our freedoms and our american dreams and what not, instead of ruling with an iron hand.

Anyone else you admire sublime?

Another thread shot down......

Saddam does not even exist on the same plane as Jefferson, Churchill, Ghandi, etc.

Heres a few more
Robert E Lee
William Wallace
Alexander the Great
Ben Franklin

I have to admit that as far as more modern politicians go....I'm going to go out on a limb here - I like James Carville. Those of you at ATS who know the name and can't quite match a face...try this...


He's got the charisma, he's got the attitude, he's funny, and he stands for a lot of the same things I do. I found a couple good quotes online from him:

"What's the real difference between Republicans and Democrats?.. Let me tell ya the real difference ... Republicans will always take on people in the interest of power and good democrats will never fear to take on the power in the interests of people."

Republicans now have their own network in Fox, so guys who don't like to answer questions, like Trent Lott, have a place to go to hit softballs.

What in the name of God would have happened if the man who was investigating Gingrich [Independent Counsel James Cole] was representing the AFL-CIO and giving speeches to gay groups and environmental groups? It would be the end of days.

And my favorite...mwa ha ha

I mean, they're not bad people, but what I really care about is that a woman who cleans bedpans in a hospital has health insurance, or has a better life. Now if that's what I care about, I gotta be a Clinton person.

This guy is a political consultant with a wicked tongue and a quick lips...he eats radical and conservative Republicans for breakfast - I always get worked up watching him and for some reason I truly believe he means everything he says, b/c it comes so quick and honest.

Originally posted by Relentless
Aw - Come on Now

How could a discussion about who the good guys are possibly come down to this? (Discussing the merits of Saddam)

Yeah sorry, you're right. off topic and way too generous of me!!

Ok, here's another one. Somewhat controversial.... I'm going to pick the Iron Lady herself Margaret Thatcher! (milk snatcher...) *ducks*

Why? She dragged the country, kicking and screaming,(literally at times) into the modern age. She broke the back of the unions at a time when they were bleeding British industry to death. She garnered immense respect amongst foreign leaders in the West, the East, and the developing world. She was a major force in bringing about the end of the cold war, through her diplomatic relations with the USSR and the US. She was decisive, yet always consulted her cabinet, and ran an effective team. She won three terms and was never defeated at the polls.

On a conspiracy note she stood up to the Bilderbergs, the forces of European federalism, and the NWO. She was finally betrayed by a pro-European cabal, (a former ally) and replaced by John Major (who is now on the board at Carlyle!.. Hmmm).
...
I await a severe thrashing for this one!!


p.s. Enron, I'd always thought that pic was John Malkovich, even though it makes no sense!!



[edit on 7-8-2004 by muppet]

Originally posted by muppet
Yeah sorry, you're right. off topic and way too generous of me!!

Ok, here's another one. Somewhat controversial.... I'm going to pick the Iron Lady herself Margaret Thatcher! (milk snatcher...) *ducks*


[edit on 7-8-2004 by muppet]

Yes, I didn't want to actually come out and say so, but I did think that was almost frighteningly generous of you.

However, you are totally redeemed for actually thinking of a good gal there.

I for one still can't come up with anyone at the internationally recognized level on my own, but I am glad to see most of the names put forth who certainly deserve considderation (the Saddam thing notwithstanding).

Perhaps Henry Kissinger?

Originally posted by Relentless
Perhaps Henry Kissinger?

Hmm.. I don't know much about him either. He was part of the Nixon administration wasn't he? Accused of being a war criminal for supporting dubious dictators like Pol Pot... though to be fair what little I do know about him is pretty one sided...I'm guessing there must be a positive side too. Any career highlights?

EDIT : The differences between the UK and US political structures make it hard for a Briton(or me anyway) to really understand the subtleties of US political achievement. The office of President for example is often held by someone who comes to politics late in life, whereas in the UK the Prime Minister is almost always a career politician.

That I guess means a different set characteristics and achievements must be measured.

ANOTHER EDIT : Enron, I'm starting to like Carville myself What's his standing in the US right now? Is he taking it easy or biding his time for something in the future?



[edit on 7-8-2004 by muppet]

Originally posted by muppet
ANOTHER EDIT : Enron, I'm starting to like Carville myself

What's his standing in the US right now? Is he taking it easy or biding his time for something in the future?

You know - I have to rather bashfully admit that I'm not 100% sure right now....I'll look into it tho - I followed closely during the Clinton era...when he seemed to be on the news almost every morning - but I'll look into it. Glad to know I'm not alone - lol