The Good Guys - They do exist

One of the primary reasons that otherwise good politicians enact bad policies in countries all over the world, but especially in low-income countries, is that they face significant constraints in their efforts to bring about reform.
netec.wustl.edu...

An interesting abstract to a research paper...good guys doing bad things...

Apart from those of us at ATS, who are (or were) the good guys fighting against corruption and civil liberties?

What about Carter, Reagan, Roosevelt, Fredrick Douglas, Upton Sinclair, Clinton?...These people did have some (in many cases, all) good in them, didn't they?

Thoughts....

Maybe I can get things going a little more...reflecting on Ike's term, there are those who believe this is incriminating (sorry if it's a little blurry)
www.cowz4.8m.com... - link to image was broken, but go to this site....

I can think of quite a few good things Eisenhower did - I don't think utilizing a better and cheaper form of advertising his campaign is a neagtive...What do you think?

Here's a rather funny, but provoking aphorism I found by Simon Cameron regarding the issue

An honest politician is one who, when he is bought, will stay bought.

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*bump* *bump* *nudge*
If you have positive input about politicians, past or present, let it be known

Not everything in our history or even in modern society has been a cover-up or a scandal and I'd like some ATS views on those who have inspired us to know more.

If you are looking for those that inspired us

For me mainly Thomas Jefferson I think he is probebly one of the greatest men who ever lived and yes he had his faults

But EVERONE has faults, most of us are not great enough to overcome them

Good one....yes, one and all...people with faults are also accepted - lol

I'm just curious to see who everyone gets their political drive and motivation from - It gets old hearing everyone bashing people....Take a moment here and "give a shout-out" to those who have inspired your political ideals.

We here at the ATS are the good guys! Well most of you guys.

For me is was growing up with Pierre Elliot Trudeau as Prime Minister of Canada.

He has probably had the most influence on my political views.

Originally posted by Gools
For me is was growing up with Pierre Elliot Trudeau as Prime Minister of Canada.

He has probably had the most influence on my political views.

I loved how he could flip his critics the bird then stroll off with some hottie on his arm.

I think good guys exist, they are everywhere, except unfortunately for us, not usually in politics. Then, even if they are what good is it. The system doesn't allow for much "good" these days. (Actually, it probably never did.)


What really good guy could stand it? Politics is not really a game for the good guys.

Originally posted by Relentless
What really good guy could stand it? Politics is not really a game for the good guys.

True....today they are far and few between....I remember I asked someone in another forum once who was debunking Arnold as corrupt to provide me a good example of an honest governor - it took him a little while to respond, and even his choice had a few clouds hanging over his reputation. I often wonder if the politicians with good intent in our history could survive the mud-slinging of today without becoming corrupt and loosing sight of their goals...

I think the best approach is to remain distant, but loud - like Gahndi

[edit on 8/6/2004 by EnronOutrunHomerun]

Originally posted by EnronOutrunHomerun
I think the best approach is to remain distant, but loud - like Gahndi
[edit on 8/6/2004 by EnronOutrunHomerun]

I['m not so sure about this. I think to really make difference one has to get inside the existing political system. That's were the action is, and where the world changing decisions are made. That's where it's possible to really make a difference.

(Great post btw, and and a thought provoking question! .)

I'll go for the obvious example I guess. Winston Churchill

Arrogant, egotistical, inconsiderate, ambitious, reckless, sexist, obstinate, cantankerous; as a man he was not without his faults. But he was also a man who gave his lifetime to the service of his country, and his King. His war record, even disregarding the small matter of WW2, was one that Patton would have been proud of.

He never sacrificed his principles for political gain. If the party line didn't match his he would try to change it. If that didn't work he simply left the party. He was a Liberal. He felt deeply responsible for all humanity, not just his country, or his class. He fought for and introduced the welfare state. He introduced pensions. He drove the creation of an independent Ireland.

Even though often excluded from the heart of government, his contribution to Britain, and democracy, over 40 years in the House, have been unmatched.

[edit on 6-8-2004 by muppet]

Originally posted by muppet
I['m not so sure about this. I think to really make difference one has to get inside the existing political system. That's were the action is, and where the world changing decisions are made. That's where it's possible to really make a difference.

Muppet - I've found in my short stay here at ATS that you always bring quality posts to a thread and often make me re-anaylze previous statements - Thanks

I suppose being the author of this thread I should post my own personal politcal "hero"...I mentioned Gahndi in an earlier post, and although he was an amazing man, I have another....

Frederick Douglass, to me, has always inspired great passion and respect. Not only did this man learn to read and write at high levels as a slave, but he felt it was his duty to teach those around him. If anyone here has read Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass, an American Slave, Written By Himself, you know the incredible nature of this man....one of the most prfound statements that rings for the modern-day need of truth in that book reads..."The life of the nation is secure only while the nation is honest, truthful, and virtuous."

His accomplishments were monumental.....and to think that they are equally as impresive if they were to occur today with another person in a minority, but considered ritual and orthodox if a white person achieves it - A double standard strikes me here....blacks are expected to fail, whites are expected to acheive, and when the opposite happens both races encounter force and disbelief - He was ahead of his time....but not....to me, an incredbile man.

[edit on 8/6/2004 by EnronOutrunHomerun]

Cheers Enron, you too, (and many others here as well. I've been forced to rethink my position sometimes!)

Originally posted by EnronOutrunHomerun
Frederick Douglass, to me, has always inspired great passion and respect. Not only did this man learn to read and write at high levels as a slave, but he felt it was his duty to teach those around him. If anyone here has read Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass, an American Slave, Written By Himself, you know the incredible nature of this man....one of the most prfound statements that rings for the modern-day need of truth in that book reads..."The life of the nation is secure only while the nation is honest, truthful, and virtuous."

I have to admit my ignorance and say I've never heard of him! I will look him up though Actually taking the inside/outside question a little further, I guess the best place to be probably depends on the situation and what you want to achieve.

Taking Ghandi as an example. He was educated in England, and could have entered more traditional politics within the British political system if he had chosen. In his case though, the problem was British rule in India full stop, and not merely aspects of it's policy. In his case you a right, he had to take a stand outside the system.

I guess inside/outside is not as clear cut as I first thought. thank YOU!

I wonder you know, whether in coming years we are going to start seeing a renewed increase in mainstream politics. There must be millions of people round the world, just like us, debating in forums, hearing opposing views and arguing over them, and trying to understand the world. Maybe this will carry through into the real world, as people rediscover the relevance of politics?



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My vote is for William Carny.

He was the flag bearer for the 54th Massachusettes Army during the US civil war.

One of the firts blacks to win the Congressional Medal of Honor.

Shot 5 times and kept going back for more...all to defend a country that thought he was cattle.

That guy inspired me more then anyone.

muppet, your a genius, but the same could be said for saddam. im not trying to start anything here, but im going to:

saddam ruled mightly. he understood his people for what they were. he loved his country. but he understood that his people were wild and unruley. they needed to be controled. this is something we cant understand here because of our policy that says we have to treat everyone with white gloves because we might hurt their feelings

in saddams time, if you messed up, not only did you get it...your whole family might. that is DEFINITLY A DETERENT TO CRIME. not saying its right, just a good deterent. secondly sadddam loved his country, more than any person or thing, saddam loved iraq and respected her and her history.

now dont get all "saddam killed millions"...cuz he didnt, or "saddam had WMDs" cuz we aint found them. the guy got screwed. he may have run his country with an iron fist, but apparently the people didnt mind, as if evidenced thru the continued "insurgent response" (lol, i love that name) remember people, in the late 1700's, we were the insurgants....

any rate, for having the cojones to stand up to america and tellin bush to cram it, for leading his people so mightly and for being sacrificed on the alter of the media, I admire the guy. sick. but thats just me..

Sublime, now that you have opened my eyes I see that Hitler was a misunderstood genius too.

Pol Pot, heck of a guy to leave your kids with.

Stalin? Man did he know how to reorganize populations or what?

nice try crmanager...all 3 put millions to death. saddams "mass graves"? a few thousand. mostly kurds how led a uprising to defeat him and soldiers bodies from the iran-iraq war. listen to our spin on it, watch the same grave filmed from 5 different angles, call it genocide and you got yourself a story.

but hey, im sure if a group of people led an uprising against our government, there wouldnt be any shallow graves around.....

Sublime?

You seem to have jumped in the middle of other people naming examples of good guys. Are you actually putting forth Saddam as one? Or are you just taking an opportunity to express your disbelief in the reasons for the US being in Iraq?

Please clarify - Thanks.

no, i honestly feel his leadership was second to none. hey--- people are still fighting for him. even though they know it is a lost cause, people are still fighting for him. you tell me,.....

Sublime, this is supposed to be a somewhat pleasant thread but...

"only a few thousand?" What body count turns mass murder into genocide for you?

He tried to kill off the Kurdish population!

Also, there was an uprising in the U.S. Late 1800's? Lincoln was president?

No mass graves.

The ones fighting for Saddam want the power/priviledge back. Not him.

You know what, this is just stupid now. see ya sublime.
Evryone keep naming the real good guys.