The use of agent provovoteurs on ATS

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
ETA: think of it like this: people are paid t post in forums to "infiltrate" various terror cells, etc. In so doing, they behave in a way that will draw out more "terrorists". In the process of behaving this way, they actually tend to incite the very hatred that they are there to identify.

Call it entrapment, if you would like.

How do you know that it's "paid gubmint agents" and not your random freeper arseholes? Not that I'd put that past the Feebs, mind you.

It might also be the occasional unpaid gubmint agent having fun: I once gave a guy on Fark the home phone number of the then current director of DHS. I didn't like the guy, he wanted to give Ridge a piece of his mind, slap his face etc, so...I made his dream come true. You want it, you got it. Sim salabim! I grant your wish!

It didn't work out quite the way the guy expected. He'll be posting again in a couple of years, I suspect.

reply to post by brutalsun

As a whole. I would have to agree with your statement. Nevertheless, I do have some personal experience here, and know that these people are everywhere. That means here as well. Still, your point is valid. As I said above, witch hunts never turn out good. And you can't live in a constant state of paranoia. The best way to play their game, is not to play at all.

I really dont see the point to have any provocateurs on here.. much less paid ones. By the very nature of the subject matter there is a lot of dissent, argument, accusations, paranoia, etc. Ive seen way too many times that people are accused of being shills and etc for merely voicing an opinion thats contrary to the status quo. A newcomer would think the place is populated by only paranoids and shills by the nonsense on some of these threads. This place and the people are absolutely NO different than any other place.. some of the people here make it completely unnecessary for anyone to be paid to meddle. Whats spoken about here by some is simply NOT so profound that an agent would need to dissuade anyone of anything. If there is a nefarious agenda, some play into it even as they protest it making a provocateur unnecessary. All some scary govt agent would have to do is read.

The reason some people only go to certain threads or discussions is because those are the things they are interested in or curious about. I dont see how thats some sort of govt plot and an indication of a poster being a provocateur. I know very little.. certainly not enough to debate anyone.. on *many* subjects. I read and learn a lot, but dont post because Im not equipped with enough information to have a reasonable discussion. Other subjects I just think are stupid or not of any interest.

I dont care what it makes me look like or what list some goof here puts me on ( especially to the overly paranoid who thinks everything they utter is profound and all bow to their superior intellect.. and anyone who disagrees with it MUST be a govt operative) but the whole thing with provocateurs and shills and all of that is laughable to me. Sure when there are threats or whatever its noticed.. you know why?? SOMEONE REPORTS IT. Wanna know how I know?? I was co-admin on a board for a few yrs with traffic as much as this one has or similar. Youll always have those who cry conspiracy, get folks riled up, wrongly incite others to gang stalk another member, etc.. know why? This is a conspiracy board.. duh. Thats why I expect some posters to make lists of posers, stalk certain posters, and all of that nonsense. It happens at MANY boards including boards that claim they are patriot driven, tea party stuff, lib agenda, environmental, etc.. and that behavior always remains consistent with a certain type. They are what they clam others are.. they exhibit the same behaviors they accuse others of

There are more than likely IS agents here but that doesn't mean ATS put them there.Anyone can sign up.

I think a lot of them make up stupid threads and get all their other buddy agents to flag it so it pushes the real important stories off the front page.

reply to post by Bedlam


Because there are documents that state as much as part of the operating procedures of various agencies/interests. As well, there was the Doc Velocity guy and what turned out to be the facts regarding him (and his job title).

It is a major piece of the DHS, or whoever is trying to find the "terrorists".

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


So you're saying they're looking for terrorists on ATS?Or just people who talk bad about the government?

What's a terrorist?

How come they're not soldiers of war?

How come American's are soldiers and Muslims are terrorists?

I think it could easily be a place for "agents" to plant stories just to see people's response to them.So they can literally pick and choose the one's they think are beneficial to them.

Originally posted by XxiTzYoMasterxX
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

So you're saying they're looking for terrorists on ATS?Or just people who talk bad about the government?

What's a terrorist?

How come they're not soldiers of war?

How come American's are soldiers and Muslims are terrorists?

I think it could easily be a place for "agents" to plant stories just to see people's response to them.So they can literally pick and choose the one's they think are beneficial to them.

Did you read the link I provided about a hit piece done by the ADL that included ATS users as "extremists"?

The last sentence in your post....yes, that is called "psyops".

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by Bedlam

 

Because there are documents that state as much as part of the operating procedures of various agencies/interests. As well, there was the Doc Velocity guy and what turned out to be the facts regarding him (and his job title).

It is a major piece of the DHS, or whoever is trying to find the "terrorists".

If you're talking about that "q group" thing, it's only been 'documented' on places like Prison Planet and Wayne Madsen. I don't really consider that 'fact'. Actually, pretty much I can't stand to read anything out of that bunch. And it's way off base considering their charter, and the stuff I know they do day to day. It's like Wayne saying that McDonalds is about to start selling tailored suits. Yeah, I guess they could, but it wouldnt' fit with hamburgers and fries.

And how do you know what the 'facts' are with Doc?

edit: the DHS and special ops aren't related all that closely. There's been some training programs for DHS, but I can't see how it would apply here. OTOH, if it's a purely DHS thing, they're a bunch of clowns so I could see it.

Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by Bedlam

 

Because there are documents that state as much as part of the operating procedures of various agencies/interests. As well, there was the Doc Velocity guy and what turned out to be the facts regarding him (and his job title).

It is a major piece of the DHS, or whoever is trying to find the "terrorists".

If you're talking about that "q group" thing, it's only been 'documented' on places like Prison Planet and Wayne Madsen. I don't really consider that 'fact'. Actually, pretty much I can't stand to read anything out of that bunch. And it's way off base considering their charter, and the stuff I know they do day to day. It's like Wayne saying that McDonalds is about to start selling tailored suits. Yeah, I guess they could, but it wouldnt' fit with hamburgers and fries.

And how do you know what the 'facts' are with Doc?

edit: the DHS and special ops aren't related all that closely. There's been some training programs for DHS, but I can't see how it would apply here. OTOH, if it's a purely DHS thing, they're a bunch of clowns so I could see it.

edit on 29-11-2010 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)

The "facts" as I witnessed them unfold. I already covered that on prior pages.

RE: Q...no that is not what i refer to. There are operations in which various levels of monitoring are done. Often, it is with bots that just mine data. Other times, it requires people to physically go to the forum/website to actively investigate.

It is common sense, though. All these terror busts coming from people talking on internet forums. We always hear, "After a year long sting...." The cases are worked for awhile. This tells me that there are people, paid by the government, to post in forums.

I have to run get the kids from school. I will try to find the links I have on government agents online.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


The bots I believe completely. The humans who sit there and play super agent.. not so much. If there are, they certainly arent as prolific or intrested in what you or anyone else has to say toi hang on every word. There are guidelines for "seditious speech" and "threats"... these have always been around and always watched. I highly doubt anyone cares if you dislike Obama and are happy he got socked in the nose or believe that 9/11 was a conspiracy and hate the rothchilds. The things that are watched all over the web and in real life are not the same things that are popularly believed to be "off limits". Of all of the crazy stuff I witnessed daily on PP the thing that was moved upon by the Govt was a direct threat. Only because it was turned over to them and the posters information was turned over to them after being legally demanded... not snatched with super secret spy software. He wasnt SUICIDED or anyting very dramatic. Jones tows the company line... and he manipulated it to his advantage.

I expect this board as well is very clear on what is allowed and not.. and its within reason. I expect this board will comply with legal investigation.PLENTY of posters and lurkers will report any threats and etc.. no paid agent needed. In fact, they better stay within the law because I kinda like it here and dont want them to disappear. That would defeat their purpose

reply to post by ChaosMagician

sites get investigated all the time... individual posters get investigated all the time.

Directed investigations are not the same as "agent provocateur" employment.

Lots of folks get "called out" for their own personal BS.

The OP is about the presence of poseurs seeking to inflame others to action. I see no "action" related to 2112, "disclosure", chemtrails, Nibiru or any of the other top-ten ATS subjects.

About the ONLY topic that might foster a-p interest would be the ATS "founding conspiracy," 9-11.

Even here, a quick perusal of the threads/posts reveals nothing worth inciting; much less any potential "threats" to the status quo.

We give ourselves way too much credit.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
It is common sense, though. All these terror busts coming from people talking on internet forums. We always hear, "After a year long sting...." The cases are worked for awhile. This tells me that there are people, paid by the government, to post in forums.

Maybe. In my case, the guys didn't get to our posts for about six months because they were way behind. When they caught one of mine that got their attention, they looked for my posts, found our little hiding place on a back thread about something inane, and then we got in trouble.

So I guess there was a "six month long" sting comprised of them being six months in arrears, followed by a few weeks of trying to figure out who all the players were. In my case they were hassling someone who had rather foolishly used his real bonafides in his profile for my real identity, so I just admitted to it.

My but they were irritated.

Protip: Never discuss your own projects. Stuff you're not read on to they have a lot harder time getting legal about.

Edit: this wasn't on ATS. I wasn't expecting the site to be audited, but it was indeed. Luckily, we had a nice collection of various people in the discussion including some highly placed military officers they couldn't burn, so only one guy from the State Department got it.

dbl post

Reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan[

You've referred to posts about surveillance/manipulation.

Here, you want one I posted over a year ago?
Gov't Admits Spying on Blogs and Forums

There's more.

Here's another.
Gov't Proposes Massive Shift in Online Privacy

Both of these threads fell on deaf ears. There are none so blind as those who will not see.
If you feel like crying about what the internet has come too, why did you wait so long? This has been a long time coming.

Originally posted by jdub297
Both of these threads fell on deaf ears. There are none so blind as those who will not see.
If you feel like crying about what the internet has come too, why did you wait so long? This has been a long time coming.

Meh. As for your second link, sure they look at who goes to government websites. Some of them will garner you more attention than others, and a pattern of visits to certain combinations of sites is supposedly a Bad Thing. They don't just use cookies, though. If you've got flash enabled, they'll store persistent data there, and they also use computer profiling with your browser data.

I've heard they can also get your MAC address, so it identifies a machine specifically, and in some cases it might be possible to tie owner to MAC address. Just sayin'.

Originally posted by Advantage
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

The bots I believe completely. The humans who sit there and play super agent.. not so much. If there are, they certainly arent as prolific or intrested in what you or anyone else has to say toi hang on every word. There are guidelines for "seditious speech" and "threats"... these have always been around and always watched. I highly doubt anyone cares if you dislike Obama and are happy he got socked in the nose or believe that 9/11 was a conspiracy and hate the rothchilds. The things that are watched all over the web and in real life are not the same things that are popularly believed to be "off limits". Of all of the crazy stuff I witnessed daily on PP the thing that was moved upon by the Govt was a direct threat. Only because it was turned over to them and the posters information was turned over to them after being legally demanded... not snatched with super secret spy software. He wasnt SUICIDED or anyting very dramatic. Jones tows the company line... and he manipulated it to his advantage.

I expect this board as well is very clear on what is allowed and not.. and its within reason. I expect this board will comply with legal investigation.PLENTY of posters and lurkers will report any threats and etc.. no paid agent needed. In fact, they better stay within the law because I kinda like it here and dont want them to disappear. That would defeat their purpose

I think you sum it up nicely. Except to add that there are FBI and other agencies with people here. It is "undercover" work, if you will. You don't have to believe me. This is one of those things that I know to be true.

Originally posted by Bedlam

I've heard they can also get your MAC address, so it identifies a machine specifically, and in some cases it might be possible to tie owner to MAC address. Just sayin'.

THis is the real danger of going to .gov and .mil sites.

Originally posted by jdub297
reply to post by ChaosMagician

 

sites get investigated all the time... individual posters get investigated all the time.

Directed investigations are not the same as "agent provocateur" employment.

Lots of folks get "called out" for their own personal BS.

The OP is about the presence of poseurs seeking to inflame others to action. I see no "action" related to 2112, "disclosure", chemtrails, Nibiru or any of the other top-ten ATS subjects.

About the ONLY topic that might foster a-p interest would be the ATS "founding conspiracy," 9-11.

Even here, a quick perusal of the threads/posts reveals nothing worth inciting; much less any potential "threats" to the status quo.

We give ourselves way too much credit.

yeah, but that's like saying that you know for a fact that no "personal BS" from any poster on this site is not related to a larger conspiracy.

Can you be so sure in every circumstance? I think it's pretty ballsy to sound so sure.

For example, let's say someone who claims to have info from inside the government and is spreading his claims around on this site even though he has already come out on other places on the net. He wants to spread the word but doesn't want to seem like he's advertising so he just comes onto the site as a regular joe while purposing the ideas and dropping some names and book titles and what-not. Let's now say the info he has is real and certain agencies want to shut him up but aren't planning on taking him out or anything... so they track him around the internet and into this site and while he proposes his ideas, a lot of debunkers seem to come out of the woodwork and make his claims look stupid and false even though they actually have credibility. And not just that but they begin using this forum under their little made up screen names to insidiously hint around about his lack of safety in ways YOU can't identify and he can't come out and talk about because it would blow any cover he has and he is considering that it might not be that serious, but it makes him a little paranoid and he starts trying to complain here and there and warn people, but it all sounds like personal crap to you, and next thing we know this guy is having serious issues in his life... how will we ever know the difference?

So the hypothetical agency that is putting a stumbling block in front of his feel don't give two #s about the site itself, yet follow a specific poster talking about random stuff just like anyone else on this site and you are none the wiser. You think since the site itself is not experiencing massive issues... that it can't be an agent provocateur because it's personal? You think that because someone has had personal issues with the law and with agencies that it's always only about their personal bull# and could be nothing more?

What's with the need to pigeon hole everything?

I know full well what the OP was referring to. I can't give proof about anything going on with this site, but I can tell you some mighty strange stories that cannot be explained by personal BS... and you can't give proof of any of these issues either... so why try to sound so factual about it?

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

Easily remedied. You can either change your mac address with software. Or you can change your network interface card. Not worth the hassle though.

reply to post by jdub297


I didn't wait so long. I have been decrying the encroaching Nazism for quite a long time.