North Korea’s Military Strength. No Pushovers!

reply to post by JohhnyBGood

Russian open sources, these are small, low-yield nuclear weapons that can generate extraordinarily powerful EMP fields, many times more powerful than the E1 EMP from a multi-megaton weapon.12

Just useless fairy tale actual efficacy of toys that kind depends upon EMP wavelength, charge's power & distance to target.

reply to post by snusfanatic
That scenario works in reverse also.

U.S. logistics are stretched too far already.

reply to post by wisefoolishness
Kind of a mess in the making then,all over again.

Since almost everyone in NK is either military or militia.

reply to post by OrionHunterX
I have training and experience in guerrilla warfare.

I would never go there again without being forced.

I am invisible,they can't see me,they can't find me...

Anyway.....

In the end,the end of all wars,low tech will win after high tech's batteries run down.

Then low tech will fail,and we turn to using rocks and clubs.

Unless we all grow the # up before that.

Originally posted by sensible thought
reply to post by OrionHunterX

 

"Spot on! It's the man behind the machine that counts. Not that I'm saying the US/SK Forces are zilch, but remember the NKs are rabidly indoctrinated and will fight to the last man last round. Are American soldiers game for that? Simple answer - NO! Three months on in Afghanistan and they want to get back to the U.S. The stress is pretty hard to handle."

I will take our army/navy/air force that CHOSE to be in the military over any indoctrinated army. It is why we had problems with draftings in vietnam. Those that make the decision always make better fighters. The NK may very well start off feeling motivated, but just like the iraqies it becomes very evident you are fighting against impossibility and they will quit.

Comparing NK to Iraq is a great mistake. NK is a whole different breed of people. Asians are know for very high discipline something the US sure ain't recognized for being. These NK don't shoot from the hip if you know what i mean, they hit what they aim at. Not many US soldiers actually hit what they aim at unless its a guided bomb or a rocket they are using.

NK has been preparing for war since the last Korean war. Their whole national structure is built around its military structure. NK won't collapse when its a Military structure all the way down to the last person.

NK even know how to suffer. They are born into it. And they will fight for it as sick as that sounds. Because we are the blame for their suffering. No Kimmy.... His is fighting against us politically and that is how it is portrayed to the NK people.

Originally posted by sensible thought
reply to post by OrionHunterX

 

They may have 80 vs 21 divisions in favor of NK, but within hours they will have no power do to the sky raining down cruise missles and our plains taking out their air defense. The command and control will be lost in hours like Iraq. Those 80 might as well be 800.

Raining down cruise missiles? Have you heard of a HEMP which is a high altitude nuclear detonation for creating an EMP (Electro magnetic Pulse)? All systems aboard the cruise missiles launched from the CSGs will pretty well be fried due to their integrated electronic circuits being damaged by huge voltage surges.

And the same goes for the fancy F-16/18s and of course the AWACS, and the C17 Globe Masters and C5A Galaxies which would be used for logistics support! And needless to say, the US/SK Joint C3I command/control systems in the area!


Circles depict the hundreds of kms affected
by an EMP.
Courtesy:businessinsider

Now, the question that would be asked is whether NK has the capability for a HEMP. Check out Johhny’s post below:

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood
Senior Russian EMP experts warned the EMP Commission that “brain drain” from Russia enabled North Korea to make what the Russians call “Super-EMP” weapons. According to Russian open sources, these are small, low-yield nuclear weapons that can generate extraordinarily powerful EMP fields, many times more powerful than the E1 EMP from a multi-megaton weapon. Both of North Korea’s nuclear weapons tests that produced low yield “fizzles” look very like what would be expected from a “Super-EMP” weapon. According to open source reporting, South Korean military intelligence claims North Korea is receiving Russian help developing “Super-EMP” weapons. www.thespacereview.com...

They have been collaborating with Iran very closely - who has also been testing missile detonation and delivery compatible with EMP warheads.

Now do you realise the seriousness of the issue? Those who keep saying that NK would be plastered with cruise missiles and the US Air Force with impunity, will need to think again.
Now let’s forget the electronic systems/equipment for a moment which would be rendered almost useless with an EMP. Check out the AA defenses along the DMZ and Pyongyang most of which do not depend on solid state electronics:


AA templates along DMZ


AA template around Pyongyang. A veritable
fortress!

So, again I'd say it's not going to be a walk in the park! And what is the US Forces' threshold where acceptable casualties/equipment damage is concerned? Because that would indicate when it's time to call it quits!

reply to post by OrionHunterX

yes, vacuum valves are most effective solution versus powerful EMP's, but they're more weighty, voracious & leisurely that makes dozen restrictions to use'em for missiles & aircrafts

Now let’s forget the electronic systems/equipment for a moment which would be rendered almost useless with an EMP.

OK let's put this HEMP or EMP crap to bed already. Nobody is buying it not even the Koreans. It seems the US defense industry has been doing a brisk job purchasing hardened electronics for the past 40 or more years. They're in everything. Tanks, Fighter Aircraft, Subs, Aircraft carriers, Missiles and rockets. We designed them that way to fight WW III against the Soviets. Did you think you were the first to think about that possibility?


The civilian electronics would be toast but not the military's

Hardened Electronics

Radiation hardening is a method of designing and testing electronic components and systems to make them resistant to damage or malfunctions caused by ionizing radiation (particle radiation and high-energy electromagnetic radiation)[1], such as would be encountered in outer space, high-altitude flight, around nuclear reactors, particle accelerators, or during nuclear accidents or nuclear warfare.

Honeywell

Honeywell's radiation hardened electronics products and technology provide aerospace system and electrical designers a strategically hardened family of products to increase performance, reduce risks and ensure mission success in space and in other radiation prone environments.

Radiation-hardened electronics technology remains stable amid steady demand in the space market

The economic downturn has affected many high-technology markets, but much like the military sector the space electronics market continues to prove resilient. Investment in new designs and new programs are steadily increasing and designers of radiation-hardened electronics (rad-hard) are optimistic midway through 2010 despite the recession and government cutbacks.

Radiation-Hardened Electronics

BAE Systems is a leading provider of advanced radiation-hardened electronics to the missile defense and space markets. These products have enabled a wide variety of civil, commercial, and national security space missions for the past twenty years.

Iraq is not an irrelevant analogy. Iraq had sophisticated systems and in many respects more sophisticated than NK's.

In the unlikely event of a physical war it comes down to blinding their command and control.

Long before that however the battle will be fought on the political battlefield. NK survives with the patronage of China. When China comes to it's senses and pulls the rug, NK will have nothing except 80 divisions of starving soldiers.

Thank you Mr Assange.

reply to post by SLAYER69

heh, my friend, you're too hastened to bury EMP for good Radiation-hardening techniques arises actual cost to Skies, but it's not 100% stable solution.

Originally posted by SarK0Y
Radiation-hardening techniques arises actual cost to Skies

Already been bought and paid for from decades of Space as well as Military research and development.

It may be news to some Armchair Generals but nothing new to the REAL US or Russian military.

reply to post by Aim64C


Dude get some manners next time you're in Walmart, Sarkoy is Russian, I'd like to see you go and try to give a US point of view on a Russian site.

Originally posted by SarK0Y
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

heh, my friend, you're too hastened to bury EMP for good

Radiation-hardening techniques arises actual cost to Skies, but it's not 100% stable solution.

Negative, young sir. Hardening against "radiation" isn't the problem in an EMP pulse. It's the radio waves generated by the blast inducing an over-amped electrical current in circuitry that fries it. "Hardening" against that generally involves simply putting the electronics inside a metal box (a "Faraday Cage") which shields it from that generated current. All of my computers, and I suspect yours as well, are already inside a metal case. They have a built-in Faraday Cage. I'm sure if us mere civilians are covered there, the military equipment is as well.

The problem then becomes one of shielding the internals against current induced in externals - like antennae, network cables, etc. so that current isn't carried to the internals in quantities to fry them. I won't go into the details of the mechanics of doing that here, but it CAN be done, fairly easily. In the case of your personal computer, disconnect the external cables if you think you're in danger of getting zapped, and it will survive. Local infrastructure may not, due to the current generated in miles and miles of wires hanging from telephone poles, but your own stuff will be safe. It just won't work without the juice from the power company and the internet connection from your ISP, which may not fare as well if they aren't hardened. You need a generator,, kept in a shielded place, to make it run after that until infrastructure is restored. No hope much for a network connection. That will be hit and miss, depending on how worried about it your local ISP was before the blast.

That is the purpose of generating an EMP from a high altitude burst - frying the infrastructure badly enough to bring a CIVILIAN population to it's knees, potentially necessitating pulling troops from the front in order to restore order and infrastructure to the civilians. The military already has generators and such to prevent their being frozen out by it.

Also, with a burst altitude high enough to produce a meaningful EMP area, radiation is NOT an issue, beyond the initial radiation of the blast (a pulse measured in microseconds), and that is so far away from the surface as to be negligible, since it obeys the inverse square law of propagation. In such a burst, radiation from fallout that has so many scared spitless is non-existent, since fallout is produced by sucking up quantities of the surface at ground zero into the cloud, where it is combined with fission products to become radioactive to begin with. No surface burst = no fallout.

Edit to add: You're dead on about the vacuum tubes being the BEST protection against EMP. That's how we dealt with it in the 70's and 80's - using vacuum tubes instead of transistors and such in mission-essential equipment. From what I gathered back then, that's what you guys were using, too. Nowadays, solid state has just about taken over, so hardening becomes a must.

It takes slightly less than 7/10ths of ONE volt to completely fry an IC, so the problem is to make sure that 7/10ths never gets there via the wrong avenue. One person can generate more than that on his person through static charges, which is why one isn't supposed to use fingers to work on such things, and why the individual tech's hands have to be grounded when working.

reply to post by nenothtu


Aren't radio waves radiation, genuine question.

Well, we're really not popular in South Korea, actually. I don't mind being called a "Pucking Miguk" all the time, but being refused service at restaurants, internet cafes, grocery stores, et cetera in Seoul time and time again can get old after a while. And they have rallies like this one occasionally: www.youtube.com...

As for the North Koreans, if they're starving, it seems like that would make them even more highly motivated to push down into South Korea to raid 7-11, GS25, E*Mart, Dunkin Donuts, Mr. Pizza and so on. A war would raise their standard of living while the standard of living of South Koreans would collapse. The North Korean soldiers would be drinking their first Budweisers, then killing some ROK soldiers, than eating some Oreos for the first time in their lives! It would be like they've died and gone to Heaven.

reply to post by nenothtu

oh, my friend, i didn't argue landed objects can be protected versus all kinds of radiation (protective earthing, thick walls with radiation shielding ), but that doesn't work so well for missiles and aircrafts

reply to post by subject9


too bad to send people in fraud resources

Originally posted by Thepreye
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Aren't radio waves radiation, genuine question.

Most people think of "radiation" in connection with a nuclear blast to be the ionizing form of radiation, the alpha, beta, and gamma radiations that destroy cells at varying energy levels as they pass through. Ye, you can think of them as "radio", but a very specific, special kind of radio wave. They are not of energy levels dangerous to most electronics, any more than your local radio station is a danger to the radio that receives it.

Ionizing radiation damages cells, and thus organism, by ionizing the atoms in the cells as it passes through, eventually causing them to break down and cease to function. Alpha and beta, by the way, aren't a great concern, since they are not strong enough to penetrate human skin. It's the gamma you have to worry about, biologically speaking.

EMP does it's damage to electronics rather than organisms. It does so by inducing a strong current in metallic components in the same way that passing a copper coil through a magnetic filed induces current flow in it (the principle on which generators are based). If that voltage pushing the current is too strong for the electrical design, it overloads it and burns out circuitry. That's how EMP fries electronics - by zapping the weakest parts of the circuitry.

yes, radio waves are "radiation", because they radiate. Likewise with sunlight, and any number of other things. It's the ionizing type of radiation that most folks are thinking of when they think of scary radiation from nuclear blasts.