Which Country Is A Better Alternative Than The U.S.?

Originally posted by dragonsmusic
That's kind of harsh coming from someone who doesn't live in the States and therefore cannot completely relate to what OP is saying. Why is it wrong? Just to put it in perspective; one can't really say it was "wrong" of the Jews in Nazi Germany not to stick around and help fix things...can one? It's an extreme scenario , but your statement called for one , I felt.

Yeah, it's an extreme scenario, and completely out in left field. Try again. Intrepid is right (even if he is a Canadian bacon-eating, Celine Dion-listening dude.)

Originally posted by Adramalech
Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Germany, Poland, France, Spain, Turkey, Greece, Italy, Switzerland, Australia, Ireland and even the UK have better solutions to most things. They all have a free national health service which covers everyone from cradle to grave for a start.

The ops appears to be trying to get -away- from social program style governments the american old west would be closest if I am reading correct.

the nations you mentioned are actually directly opposed to what he thinks utopia would be like...not that what you listed isn't nice mind you..just not what he is looking for.

think...anarchy..live by the gun type mentality..

I personally think some middle eastern nations may be in order.

or places like kentucky/arkansas in the states.

Originally posted by dragonsmusic

Originally posted by intrepid
Not to rain on anyones parade but leaving your country instead of trying to correct what's wrong just seems, well, wrong imo. We have plenty of problems in Canada but I'll be damned if I'm leaving. Vacations aside of course.

That's kind of harsh coming from someone who doesn't live in the States and therefore cannot completely relate to what OP is saying. Why is it wrong? Just to put it in perspective; one can't really say it was "wrong" of the Jews in Nazi Germany not to stick around and help fix things...can one? It's an extreme scenario , but your statement called for one , I felt.

Our problems in Canada are seeming small in comparison to what our friends south of us are experiencing. I would also never want to leave Canada, but up here, we haven't felt the pressure they've felt south of us. Hopefully, we never do.


***sorry about the nested quote, my answer wouldn't have made sense without it.

Originally posted by intrepid
reply to post by DINSTAAR

 

I have no problem with a person looking for a better life but it comes down to motivation. If it's because you don't like certain things then moving is tantamount to turning your back on your homeland as opposed to trying to right what's wrong. Sorry, I think that isn't right.

However, if the wrong your trying to right is actually just a unpopular perception...perhaps the place isn't good for you.

For instance, lets say I goto the UK and try my hardest to turn it into (for example only) a islamic state under sharia law only...try as hard as I might, the country will never accept my intentions...I may think it is the way, however, simply put...it won't happen.

So, I could live my life in a place I don't much like trying to endlessly try to install a wildly unpopular style of government...or I could simply pack up and move to a place more suited for my desires, living happy for the rest of my days.

Just because you (not you personally) see a problem in a country, doesn't mean there is one..just means you have a problem with something about it...fighting the wind is a futile effort.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by Adramalech
Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Germany, Poland, France, Spain, Turkey, Greece, Italy, Switzerland, Australia, Ireland and even the UK have better solutions to most things. They all have a free national health service which covers everyone from cradle to grave for a start.

The ops appears to be trying to get -away- from social program style governments the american old west would be closest if I am reading correct.

the nations you mentioned are actually directly opposed to what he thinks utopia would be like...not that what you listed isn't nice mind you..just not what he is looking for.

think...anarchy..live by the gun type mentality..

I personally think some middle eastern nations may be in order.

or places like kentucky/arkansas in the states.

Yes, you are probably right. However, such romantic notions of freedom are often bullsh*t. Once someone with a bigger gun threatens you, or you get sick and need a hospital (etc) the need for well organised fair civilization becomes far more apparent. How free are you if you ain't got your health? Even in Cuba nobody has to worry about healthcare bills (unlike in the USA).

reply to post by SLAYER69

Where I live we don't have one single Camera at any intersection. I think you may be confusing us with the UK?

I live in a mid-sized city in Ohio. I see 10 or more cameras everyday on my mere 15 minute drive to work everyday. I can take pics if it will satisfy you.

Wow, Let me ask you this...How many times has that really happened yet?

4th Amendment:
“The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”

One nutjob puts a bomb in his underwear, so now the whole dam country losses our rights? For all we know, the "Underwear Bomber" might have been a false flag to implement this TSA bull-crap.

I have not flown since the TSA implemented the new policies the last month or so, and I now refuse to fly at all. But is it not enough for you to watch all the videos, read all of the testimony, and read through the TSA policies for pat-downs and full body scans to know it is wrong?

Small, innocent children are not safe:
TSA gropes young boy's testicles while he is strip searched in front of everyone

Full Body Scan Images are saved:
Leaked U.S. Marshal body scan images revealed

Are you really ok with your naked body being viewed and saved on file by strangers or the government?
Do you feel no outrage if this was a picture of your mother, wife, girlfriend, sister, or daughter?



And this is with a simple color enhancement:



A TSA supervisor said, ""By buying your ticket you gave up a lot of rights." during the whole John Tyner event.

Personally, I have not been wronged because I have chosen to stay away from the airports.

Has that thing even passed yet?
Just curious....

No, not yet. However, a "motion to Invoke Cloture passed on a vote of 74-25, sending the bill forward for a vote with shortened debate." They didn't give us enough time to research this bill to be able to contact our Congressmen/women. And the fact that this year they keep trying to push different legislation down our throats to restrict natural food is a frightening trend.

Could you give us your personal examples of your experiences of your rights being trampled please.

I didn't know that I'm still considered free in America if government injustice happens to my fellow American, and not to me because I stayed home.

When cops can taser us for speaking our mind "Don't taser me dude!"
When we are forced to undergo a nude body scan or invasive pat-down just to travel "Don't touch my junk!"
When the government tries to tell me I can't eat natural foods....
When we are constantly being monitored....
That's evident my rights can be trampled on if I am in the right place at the right time.

You avoid wild lions not because they attacked you personally, but because you know the danger that exists.

"They who would trade liberty for security soon have none and deserve neither."
- Benjamin Franklin

"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."
- Thomas Jefferson

Too many people to reply to individually, so let me just give a "Thank You" to everyone that offered suggestions!!

I saw New Zealand come up a lot. I'll have to check it out.

To the few people talking about small towns in America, maybe you guys are right. I should check out more of this country.

I'm surprised no one mentioned anywhere in Asia.

Leaving America is not set in stone for me. It's just an idea that sounds more tempting with each passing of some new bull-crap "keep us safe" legislation.

Originally posted by signal2noise

Originally posted by dragonsmusic
That's kind of harsh coming from someone who doesn't live in the States and therefore cannot completely relate to what OP is saying. Why is it wrong? Just to put it in perspective; one can't really say it was "wrong" of the Jews in Nazi Germany not to stick around and help fix things...can one? It's an extreme scenario , but your statement called for one , I felt.

Yeah, it's an extreme scenario, and completely out in left field. Try again. Intrepid is right (even if he is a Canadian bacon-eating, Celine Dion-listening dude.)

No more out in left field than jumping on one line and missing the bigger picture of what' s being said. Without adding any significant thought to the discussion , which didn't involve you in the first place, you just sound like another "tough" keyboard jockey thinking you said something smart.

The extreme scenario you don't see is that the extreme scenario is the whole point. Should they have stayed in Germany and tried to "fix the problem?" Apparently that's the thought process you are supporting.

Originally posted by snowspirit

Originally posted by dragonsmusic

Originally posted by intrepid
Not to rain on anyones parade but leaving your country instead of trying to correct what's wrong just seems, well, wrong imo. We have plenty of problems in Canada but I'll be damned if I'm leaving. Vacations aside of course.

That's kind of harsh coming from someone who doesn't live in the States and therefore cannot completely relate to what OP is saying. Why is it wrong? Just to put it in perspective; one can't really say it was "wrong" of the Jews in Nazi Germany not to stick around and help fix things...can one? It's an extreme scenario , but your statement called for one , I felt.

Our problems in Canada are seeming small in comparison to what our friends south of us are experiencing. I would also never want to leave Canada, but up here, we haven't felt the pressure they've felt south of us. Hopefully, we never do.


***sorry about the nested quote, my answer wouldn't have made sense without it.

I hear you. Thanks for empathizing. It's hard to watch a nation experiencing its highest suicide rates in the past hundred years, the worst economic depression in the making ever, and all its liberties stripped away and have people say flat out that it's "wrong" to want to leave that.

I suppose we are just supposed to start a revolution that fixes it.

Originally posted by Sahabi
I'm surprised no one mentioned anywhere in Asia.

Asia? you will either find alot of socialist style countries, or damn near anarchy...or a curious mix of the two (not somewhere in between, but one extreme and the other coexisting.).

Not your cup of tea...small backwoods towns seem up your alley.

keep in mind, in heavy urban areas, theres plenty of good people, however, there are security measures in place because the nasty sorts are like super villian nasty there...laws are not typically set up to punish 95% of society...but is a necessary evil to protect the 95 from the 5%. You may hate that camera on the corner...until your wife is mugged and/or raped and suddenly the evidence that camera has becomes a godsend to prosecute the people that did it...its not to see what your up to (well, beyond speeding...meh, someone has to pay for the roads)

however, too much security that hampers individual liberty is not good...



oh, and that senate food bill thing is a spin..twisted lie that is pushed into the people that haven't read it so they will ignorantly throw their hands up and demand it not be passed...as the corporations that are effected want you to do..its expensive to monitor the food...cheaper to start a outcry by the ignorant than to deal with the bill effecting your commercial facility. Dont fall for it.

Originally posted by dragonsmusic
No more out in left field than jumping on one line and missing the bigger picture of what' s being said. Without adding any significant thought to the discussion , which didn't involve you in the first place, you just sound like another "tough" keyboard jockey thinking you said something smart.

Yeah, whatever. Cry me a river. And last time I checked, you didn't own this board, which means anyone can jump into a discussion. Sorry if it hurt your precious feelings. Need a tissue?

Originally posted by dragonsmusic
The extreme scenario you don't see is that the extreme scenario is the whole point. Should they have stayed in Germany and tried to "fix the problem?" Apparently that's the thought process you are supporting.

Sorry, Slick. What I was pointing out was you comparing the problems in the US today as being similiar to what the Jews were going thru in Germany when the Nazis were in power. It ain't close; no one is being hauled off to concentration camps and being gassed.

i've searched a good chunk of the world and some how always end up coming home.
i'm going down with the ship, my m1a in my cold dead hands.

reply to post by Sahabi


Well, the US is the only country where the populace hasn't been disarmed for the most part. When my husband and I bought our ranch in 2003, we also looked into Canada, but the weather and gun control were downsides that we could not get past. We moved to the heartland and are happy to report that the average number of firearms by household in my area is 21. I doubt they will try to forcibly vaccinate anyone around here

Originally posted by Sahabi
I'm surprised no one mentioned anywhere in Asia.

Jim Rogers moved to China. He likens the move to coming to the US in its heyday. I'd rather stick it out here in middle America.

Originally posted by GirlGenius
reply to post by Sahabi

 

Well, the US is the only country where the populace hasn't been disarmed for the most part. When my husband and I bought our ranch in 2003, we also looked into Canada, but the weather and gun control were downsides that we could not get past. We moved to the heartland and are happy to report that the average number of firearms by household in my area is 21. I doubt they will try to forcibly vaccinate anyone around here

21? how many damn guns do you need to defend the property? I would think one or two would be enough...

however, should a zombie apocolypse hit, you lot are well prepared...


Plenty of places around the world with loose or no gun laws...from the nordic areas, to the middle east..but meh...gotta learn a new language

reply to post by Sahabi


The second picture in this post is a hoax. It is a negative of a picture from an artist's anatomical reference. That's why it tuned out so well when "negativized". Try turning the first one negative, and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Also note that in the first one, which is a real scan, no hair shows up in it, but in the second one (the hoax) has hair. That's because hair goes the same way as clothes in a real scan.

Originally posted by intrepid
reply to post by DINSTAAR

 

I have no problem with a person looking for a better life but it comes down to motivation. If it's because you don't like certain things then moving is tantamount to turning your back on your homeland as opposed to trying to right what's wrong. Sorry, I think that isn't right.

Is there any difference in this decision as when people move to another house or neighborhood? Maybe for better schooling. Maybe you don't like the weather. Maybe the quality of the area is deteriorating. Maybe you can afford to "upgrade" house and neighborhood. Maybe there aren't enough available jobs opportunities. Etc., etc.,etc.

I am one person. I can only speak for myself. I do not represent the majority, and I can't be sure my ideas are held by the majority. You think I should go around fixing everything I don't agree with, because if I don't it makes me wrong? What if I'm in the minority on the way I see things? Force my definition of change onto others? If things are not the way I feel they should be, perhaps I should find a place that fits my desires. In doing so I am not forcing my idea of life onto others, because I can just move to where it already exists.


Whatever reason people choose to relocate is their personal reason, relative to their life, based on what they desire in life. You choose to condemn me for desiring a better life, but you are being indifferent to the desires of others for a better life? My definition of a better life is one free from government encroachment into my personal life and privacy. Another person's definition of a better life might be education, employment, weather, or standard of living. But I'm wrong for pursuing what my definition of a better life is? 0_o

I would love to live in Norway.....

I'd be a hermit.


I'd live in a hut beside a cave filled with sheep, just relax and enjoy some of the BEST CHOCOLATE IN THE WORLD!!!!!

Originally posted by Sahabi

Leaving America is not set in stone for me. It's just an idea that sounds more tempting with each passing of some new bull-crap "keep us safe" legislation.

Excellent! Then you aren't completely lost yet!

There's a lot to be said, in my mind at least, for standing your ground. Some times, that will involve a tussle, and if you go down, you go down swinging. Make it count. In most cases, however, unless one is specifically trolling for confrontation, simply refusing to comply, and quietly going about one's own business is sufficient. The thing about the insistence on "natural" foods is such a case. They can pass whatever law they like, but there is no way to force compliance short of converting half the country into law enforcement agents, and assigning us each hi own 24 hour a day agent.

Otherwise, you just do what you want, eat what you want, and ask no man's permission to do so.

The "health care reform" travesty is another such case. Just don't buy it if you don't want it. That's what I intend to do. Not gonna buy it, not gonna pay any "penalties" for not doing so. If they want to provide it gratis, that's fine. I'm not going to use what they give. Simple, no problems. They can waste as they like.

As a matter of fact, that applies to just about anything. Do what you want, and don't ask their permission. Anything that truly IS enforceable (as opposed to what they CLAIM is enforceable) will eventually catch up with you, but you'll skate on everything else.

Always remember, you can't take a free man's liberty away from him, no matter how hard you try. He has to give it up intentionally to lose it. If he's not afraid of what you threaten, you've got no hold on him at all.

reply to post by nenothtu


Thank you very much for pointing out the second pic is a hoax.
I'll no longer cite that pic.

However, my point still stands. The unaltered, unenhanced scan is still horrible on it's own! You can clearly make out vaginal and anal contours, full detail of the butt and breasts, and penis in the male scans. I still say this is an injustice and violation of personal privacy.