'Koreas on 'brink of war' because of Seoul, Pyongyang says'.brand new cnn article

Originally posted by randomname

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
For the record, there is no proof that NK sunk the ship. That is conjecture. The 'torpedo' was german made.

ya and guatemala just mortared the island and your right it wasn't n. korea, south korea's mortal ememy, that sunk that ship it was the bahamas with a caribbean coalition that included barbados and princess mary cruise lines.

captainyinknots is trollin hard. if he doesn't let up his head is going to burst and all that crap that's been coming out of his mouth is going to damage his monitor.

edit on 24-11-2010 by randomname because: (no reason given)

Just waiting for proof on your claim.

Originally posted by randomname
america has a bad track record against asian nations. they should sit this one out. urban fighting in pyongyang will make fallujah look like a picnic.

You mean like over 129,000 Chinese soldiers killed and untold numbers of North Korean soldiers compared to the US's 50,000 killed in the Korean war or when the US pretty much smashed Japan in WWII?

Or North Vietnam where the North couldn't win their invasion of the south for over 10 years until 1975 two years after the US pulled out back in 1973?

Like that?

I hope i can still buy xbox games this Christmas.

There are two nuclear capable nations who could deliver a crippling EMP blow to the US and who are not afraid of retaliation NK and Iran - they are both ruled by insane crazy belligerent leaders - and whose ultimate goals can only be achieved by the destruction of the US - both have the tacit support of Russia and China, both of whomwould also dearly love to see a world without the US as a superpower.

In the case of NK - it is the re-unification of the kerean peninsula, and thier doctrine of 'total war.'

with Iran it is the appocalyptic 12'ver fantasies of Shia eschatology.


“We do not worship Iran, we worship Allah. For patriotism is another name for paganism. I say let this land [Iran] burn. I say let this land go up in smoke, provided Islam emerges triumphant in the rest of the world.”

–Ayatollah Ruhollah Musawi Khomeini

@the argument of Rome = America

Rome spread their military too thin. America could have 1,000 soldiers in the entire Korean peninsula and still win that war. Modern War is no longer "my army bigger than your army". Air superiority would be achieved within days, hell, hours and then N.K. could send the entire population of their country into the bloodbath that would be an American Carpet Bomb.

@N.K.'s 3 nuclear bombs ("rumored")

Call me overconfident, but as a citizen of a fine nation that can shoot freaking satellites out of the damn sky, I seriously doubt the graveness of a nuclear missile beings shot from the Korean Peninsula to the Californian coast (close to 10000 km in case anyone is counting). If we can't shoot that down then we deserve the nuke. Now, granted, I understand the argument "well what if they nuke S. Korea". Frankly, they had better use it as a first strike because I don't see a nuke getting off after the Shock & Awe hits them and if it does I'd imagine emergency anti-missile devices would have already been planted (if they aren't already near the DMZ) on the border.

@Big Bully China's loan leash on America and the threat they pose as an enemy in war

China cannot afford to go to war with America. Do you honestly believe the US would think about paying a debt while at war with China? Let me narrarate this conversation for you in an incredibly racist and stereotypical way.

"Uhh....hello America? You pay our money back now!"
"Dude we're at war."

Regardless of the size and expanding technology the Chinese Army possesses, they simply cannot project it a continent away. And even if they could, it wouldn't be sustainable. A war in the mainland US in unwinnable by any foreign power. The US is a natural fortress. There's a barren desert followed by an incredible mountain range on the west coast, a mountain range on the east coast, a naturally defendable MASSIVE gulf to the south with strategic posts all along its entrance, and a long allied border to the north that is frozen wasteland. Bring it on Chinaman.

-st

reply to post by soultorent


reply to post by soultorent


You make some good points.
But...
1)You are right, in this day and age it isnt about 'we have more soldiers than you'. But equipment is spread out, and the logistics of transporting these things all over the world spreads things even more thin.

2)A nuke can be fired from a sub, just the same. Ands china has proven that subs can breach our waters.

3)No, America wouldnt pay china during a war. But guess what-all that money we owe china comes from something. Meaning we dont pay, we dont trade, we suffer, just the same as they do. No more monetary loans from china. No more chinese goods. Sure, some people would be great with that idea, but consider the amount of business that would go down without chinese goods. Playing the economy game with China would hurt us, just as much as it would hurt them.

No, China couldnt win a war in mainland US. But thats not where the conflict would arise, given the situation in Korea right now.

And lets not forget, China is no military slouch.

asian nations, like russia can take huge amounts of casualities to win their cause.

if a u.s. soldier nicked his toe clipping his toe nails, there's already riots and calls to bring our troops home.

america is soft and relies on its technology to much, plus it's broke an couldn't take the finiancial burden of replacing a shot down f-22.

reply to post by randomname



This isn't 1940s Stalingrad.
The USSR/Russia after losing nearly 20,000 killed in Afghanistan had enough and walked. The Chinese took a beating when they invaded Vietnam back in 1979

Cool your jets folks.
Kim is just looking for another handout like Clinton gave him. He wants some free food and money.
Hide and watch.
Obama will give it to him.

reply to post by badgerprints


I don't doubt he'll get it in the slightest..

Things have been going pretty badly with the Koreas for a long time.. Im hard pressed to believe they are going to go to war over this.

reply to post by XxRagingxPandaxX

pathetic

Pathetic is the actual fact you know she had a birthday!. people will be people.If they are sheeple you are a the president of the Cyrus fan club or was that Justin's club LOL

reply to post by Miraj

Things have been going pretty badly with the Koreas for a long time.. Im hard pressed to believe they are going to go to war over this.

I think you are probably right. They did nothing when they sank one of their Naval Ships. When it comes to NK SK=SOFT!

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by randomname
america has a bad track record against asian nations. they should sit this one out. urban fighting in pyongyang will make fallujah look like a picnic.

You mean like over 129,000 Chinese soldiers killed and untold numbers of North Korean soldiers compared to the US's 50,000 killed in the Korean war or when the US pretty much smashed Japan in WWII?

Or North Vietnam where the North couldn't win their invasion of the south for over 10 years until 1975 two years after the US pulled out back in 1973?

Like that?

edit on 24-11-2010 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)

And you forgot the untold amount of Japanese troops that were sent on their way to heaven courtesy of the USMC. Guess randomname forgot about those guys, too.

North and South Korea are always on the "Brink of War." They've been on the "Brink of War" since the armistice was signed. The artillery strike by North Korea was to boost the Kim Jong II's son and to get more aid from the UN. Guess what, it worked. The UN will cave and give in to the leadership of NK and the people will rejoice....because if they don't, they get jailed. Again, I can't state this enough, there will not be a nuclear or conventional war on the Korean Peninsula in the foreseable future. Sorry to disappoint the warmongers and sabre ratlers.

Look at least as far back as the Clinton administration (that's when I really became aware of this). The North started developing nuclear energy, the US didn't like it so we offered the North aid and they supposedly stopped their program. When they needed more aid, they restarted their program.

Now, to force the world to give them more aid, they kill a few South Koreans and we give in to...you guessed it...avoid total nuclear war on the Korean Peninsula. Win/win...except for the families of those killed by the North...but they are compensated for their loses.

BTW, aren't we supposed to be going to war with Iran? Whatever happened with that? I suppose that was just a smoke screen for the US' real objective....North Korea. Yea, right! Not even the High Commander of the InterGalatic Fleet would by that one.

I believe we are witnessing China, not North Korea. I think China is using N Korea as a proxy to test the waters of war. China thinks the west as a whole is weak. The best way to see how weak is to make a provocative move like this and see what kind of response the west gives. So far the response has been very telling. It is obvious that the US is over burdened with all the middle east wars and does not want to have to engage the far east. A good clue is how our media is responding to this. For example CNN made this attack a 3rd item on 360. Normally this kind of action would take up the whole show if not the whole day of broadcast. The west is trying to imply that this isn't as serious as it really is. By doing so weakness is being exposed! Think about it... If you didn't want to fight out of fear of loosing you would imply the threat isn't that bad and not worth your time. You would walk away, brush it off and hope to your self that it didn't escalate from there. If the west was confident and ready it would strike fast and hard, to send a strong message. Our lack of anger and action is exactly what China expected and wants. They are in a position of economic and military power and now they know it!

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood

www.sikharchives.com...

Thanks for sharing this with us.
www.sikharchives.com...

5. North Korea’s Defense Against US Attacks a. Fortification North Korea began to build fortifications in 1960s. All key military facilities are built underground to withstand American bunker-buster bombs. North Korea has 8,236 underground facilities that are linked by 547 km of tunnels. Beneath Pyongyang are a huge underground stadium and other facilities. About 1.2 million tons of food, 1.46 million tons of fuel, and 1.67 million tons of ammunition are stored in underground storage areas for wartime use. Most of the underground facilities are drilled into granite rocks and the entrances face north in order to avoid direct hits by American bombs and missiles. .... North Korea has many false caves that emit heats that will misdirect unwary GBU-28/37 and BKU-113 bunker-busters.


b. Air Defense North Korea has a large number of ground-to-air missiles. It has SA-2 and SA-3 missiles against low-flying enemy planes, and SA-5 missiles for high-altitude planes. SA-5 missiles have an effective range of 250 km. SA-5 missiles can hit enemy planes flying over the middle of South Korea. North Korea has reengineered US shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missiles captured in Vietnam, and designed its own missile, wha-sung. North Korea began to manufacture wha-sung missiles in 1980. Wha-sung comes in two models: SA-7 that has an effective range of 5 km and SA-16 with 10 km range. North Korea has more than 15,000 wha-sung missiles in place. In addition to the missiles, North Korea has 12,000 anti-aircraft guns, including 37mm twin-barrel guns, 23 mm automatics, 57mm, 87mm, and 100mm heavy guns. These are mostly manually operated and thus not subject to electronic warfare. c. Coastal deferences North Korea’s coastlines are long and jagged. Coastal guns are placed in fortified tunnels along the coastline. North Korea has six ground-to-ship missile bases. North Korea has anti-ship missiles of 95km range, and of 160km range. The latter are for hitting US carrier battle groups over the horizon. North Korean anti-ship missiles can hit ships anchored at Inchon on the west and Sokcho on the east. America’s main defense against anti-ship missiles, the Arleigh Burke class Aegis destroyers are ineffective outside 20-50 km from missile launch pads.


d. Sea Battles North Korea has two fleets – the West Fleet and the East Fleet. The West Fleet has 6 squadrons of 320 ships and the East Fleet has 10 squadron of 460 ships. The navy has a total manpower of 46,000. North Korean ships are sheltered from US attacks in about 20 bunkers of 200-900 m longs and 14-22 m wide. North Korean ships are small and agile, designed for coastal defense. North Korean ships carry 46km range ship-to-ship missiles and 22-channel multiple rocket launchers. The main enemy of the North Korean navy will be US carrier task forces. The Russian navy has developed a tactic to deal with US carriers task forces: massive simultaneous missile attacks. In addition, Russia has developed the anti-carrier missile, “jun-gal”, that can destroy a carrier. China has developed similar tactics for destroying US carriers. On April 1, 2003, North Korea test-fired a high-speed ground-to-ship missile of 60km range. A US carrier task force of Nimitz class has 6,000 men, 70 planes, and a price tag of 4.5 billion dollars. Destroying even a single career task force will be traumatic. A carrier is protected by a shield of 6 Aegis destroyers and nuclear attack submarines. An Aegis destroyer has an AN/SPY-1 high-capacity radar system that can track more than 100 targets at the same time. An Aegis can fire about 20 anti-missile missiles at the same time. Thus, a career force can track a total of 600 targets at a time and fire 120 anti-missile missiles at the same time. The anti-missile missiles have about 50% success under ideal conditions.....

I believe this adds a lot to the conversation. I was feeling pretty positive about America's ability until I had read this on another site and was wondering how ya'll think we would overcome these points without going nuclear? Even if China was going to stay out of it - I don't think they would stand idly by while we are going nuclear in their back yard?

So again, How would these points be overcome militarily/realistically with the least amount of loss to the South and our service men?

Be sure to take a look at the link - especially: 5. North Korea’s Defense Against US Attacks

reply to post by XxRagingxPandaxX


Odd how people are programmed to not believe any thing N-Korea says, and programmed to believe everything S-Korea says.

Does anyone notice that>?

Did anyone notice how South Korea was firing towards N-Korea>?

South and North are officially at war, you do that at the time of war, whether it be a military exercise or not, it would be taken seriously.

I'm just saying..

The Chinese military really isn't much to fear. If they were, they would own Taiwan by now but they can't even do that.

China craves stability and if NK were to collapse, they would be forced to act by either taking over NK to fill in the vacuum, or watch as SK and the US fill the vacuum..right up to their own border...either situation is undesirable for China..

NK understands that and although China can economically constrain it, it has no political leeway at all.

Simply put, NK does what it wants and China is FORCED to support NK because it can't risk destabilizing NK. China does not, and never has been particularly close with NK...

reply to post by SLAYER69


Vietnam is a joke compared with North Korea

Land invasion by USA on North Korea will be the biggest nightmare of all nightmares in war history