we cannot be truly tolerant to islam

reply to post by megabyte


Muslims are PEOPLE , just like me and you . The Only Difference is one of Culture , Not Religion .

reply to post by Michael Cecil


Excellent reply my friend.

Originally posted by Crutchley29
reply to post by backinblack

 

You are completely missing the point, and I dont need to have visited a Muslim country to be well acquainted with the religion, you can gain a lot from actually reading the religious texts, of which i did plenty of whilst studying Theology as a post grad in Manchester.

I don’t think all Priests are paedophiles because of the actions of a few, but you must understand that Shariah law is a founding concept of Islam and thus MUST be followed, the Quran is not as open to interpretation as the Bible is and so when it states that Muslims are to deceive non-Muslims for the benefit and continuations of Shariah and Islam it means it.

I am forming my opinion from fact, not personal belief, I know not ALL Muslims follow Shariah law...but in the UK it is seen as the ruling force and so my experiences follow suit.

edit on 22-11-2010 by Crutchley29 because: (no reason given)

Honestly, you simply have NO understanding of the majority of Muslims..
I think you should stop reading website and watching TV and instead get out into the real world...

Generalising like you do is akin to saying all Americans are KKK believers...
It's just so wrong it's not funny...

Originally posted by Redevilfan09
If you cannot tolerate Islam how can you tolerate the readings in the bible which promote stoning and killing sinners. I do not know whether you read a bible or not but even if you did not, what would any religious law matter to you anyway?

One thing I cannot tolerate is the amount of criminals in the USA. You know, the rapists, murderers, kiid tamperers etc. Before you say how you cannot tolerate another cultures laws, how about you have a look in your own backyard and see how pathetic your countries laws are towards criminals.

we all pretty much have a secular legal system and do not follow the bible in legal matters

kid tampering? in islam that is legal - you can marry a baby 3 months old if you want to and thigh her until you think she can take anal and then give your 3 month old wife to her mother for suckling at the breast

www.topix.com...

quoting

"A man can marry a girl younger than nine years of age, even if the girl is still a baby being breastfed. A man, however is prohibited from having intercourse with a girl younger than nine, other sexual acts such as foreplay, rubbing, kissing and sodomy is allowed. A man having intercourse with a girl younger than nine years of age has not committed a crime, but only an infraction, if the girl is not permanently damaged. If the girl, however, is permanently damaged, the man must provide for her all her life. But this girl will not count as one of the man's four permanent wives. He also is not permitted to marry the girl's sister."


end of quote

the only reason there is no rape in islam culture is because whatever the man wants is legal so rape does not exist and besides - it takes 4 women to testify they witnessed the crime.

there are a lot of things we in western countires consider abhorrent that are totally legal in islam countries

I dont care what the bible says because the bible is ancient- only about 8% of people go to church regularly and the rest of the time we all depend on secular laws so waht the bible says especially in the old testament is of no relevance

sorry - the topic is still how we in western countries cannot be tolerant of all the things islam allows in your culture. I certainly think it is abhorrent to even have laws in place about any bride who is under the age of 16 and most certainly even though thighing probably does not happen in every family it is abhorrent that it is allowed at all.

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by megabyte

 

Oh pleeeaaasseeee, the majority of the worlds Muslims are extremely tolerant..
.

Er....what is is exactly that they are 'extremely tolerant' of?


The real issue is not how many backsliding Muslims there may be - but is there a moderate version of Islam......................NO!

Islam is not capable of being reformed - due to the Koran being supposedly a direct revelaton fron Allah - Muslims who wish to be more 'moderate' have no leg to stand on as the 'extremists' are the ones with scripture and law on thier side.

Originally posted by backinblack

Originally posted by Crutchley29
reply to post by backinblack

 

You are completely missing the point, and I dont need to have visited a Muslim country to be well acquainted with the religion, you can gain a lot from actually reading the religious texts, of which i did plenty of whilst studying Theology as a post grad in Manchester.

I don’t think all Priests are paedophiles because of the actions of a few, but you must understand that Shariah law is a founding concept of Islam and thus MUST be followed, the Quran is not as open to interpretation as the Bible is and so when it states that Muslims are to deceive non-Muslims for the benefit and continuations of Shariah and Islam it means it.

I am forming my opinion from fact, not personal belief, I know not ALL Muslims follow Shariah law...but in the UK it is seen as the ruling force and so my experiences follow suit.

edit on 22-11-2010 by Crutchley29 because: (no reason given)

Honestly, you simply have NO understanding of the majority of Muslims..
I think you should stop reading website and watching TV and instead get out into the real world...

Generalising like you do is akin to saying all Americans are KKK believers...
It's just so wrong it's not funny...

And you have NO understanding of the impact of Shariah law on UK society, you also do not seem to understand what Shariah actually is, or have any experience with the Quaran itself, stop being defensive when you obviously lack the knowledge to reply back to me in a logical fashion.

I also stated not all Muslims followed Shariah, but again you choose to reply back in a typically ignorant way, I can see where you got your warning from.

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by megabyte

 

poligamy is unfair to women - I know guys would love it being married to as many women as they fancy but it is not fair to women and i would never ever share a man. its either me or get lost!

Well, I believe marriage should not be regulated by laws, so thats the reason for my stance. But this is probably for another discussion.

until something goes wrong in a marriage - then both parties and any children suddenly need to have the government dole out some justice

I too would like marriage not to be regulated by government but thousands of years have proven that regulation is needed for when things go wrong

the marriage certificate in in fact a pre-nuptial agreement for the rest of us who are not rich

reply to post by Crutchley29

And you have NO understanding of the impact of Shariah law on UK society, you also do not seem to understand what Shariah actually is, or have any experience with the Quaran itself, stop being defensive when you obviously lack the knowledge to reply back to me in a logical fashion.

I also stated not all Muslims followed Shariah, but again you choose to reply back in a typically ignorant way, I can see where you got your warning from

Mate, I have read the Quaran, have you??
If the UK Government is stupid enough to allow a minority religion like Shariah law to dictate laws in the UK, is it really the average Muslims fault or just your stupid politicians???
You have to ask yourself who is the problem?
The normal tolerant muslims or YOUR Government that allows extremists to dictate the laws...
Get back to me when you grow some..

Originally posted by Crutchley29

I hate to tell you, but you seem to be ignorant to Shariah...which is definetly NOT a minority within Islam.

Why is everyone so uninformed about Islam these days while calling others ignorant. Shariah definitely are the minority within Islam. The Sunnis make up about 80-90% of all muslims in the world.

Also....
Female circumcision - cultural

Honor Killings - Pride issue

Child brides - If this does go on these days, its probably in remote villages that take forever to advance, so cultural

Forced marriages - Pride issues with the family again, so cultural issue again...

Polygamy - Blown way out of proportion, its so the husband can get a new wife if his cannot bear a child or passes away...

Anyway, I've had enough of all these silly threads calling for a rally against Sharia Law in the UK, it's just never ever going to happen. I even discuss this with muslims themselves, and even they say you don't have to follow sharia law to get to tango with Allah when you die...

Originally posted by FermiFlux

Originally posted by Crutchley29

I hate to tell you, but you seem to be ignorant to Shariah...which is definetly NOT a minority within Islam.

Why is everyone so uninformed about Islam these days while calling others ignorant. Shariah definitely are the minority within Islam. The Sunnis make up about 80-90% of all muslims in the world.

Also....
Female circumcision - cultural

Honor Killings - Pride issue

Child brides - If this does go no these days, its probably in remote villages that take forever to advance, so cultural

Forced marriages - Pride issues with the family again, so cultural issue again...

Polygamy - Blown way out of proportion, its so the husband can get a new wife if his cannot bear a child or passes away...

Anyway, I've had enough of all these silly threads calling for a rally against Sharia Law in the UK, it's just never ever going to happen. I even discuss this with muslims themselves, and even they say you don't have to follow sharia law to get to tango with Allah when you die...

Like i already advised, I am referring to my country, of which Sunni's sadly do not exert control, I already stated that I know a lot of Muslims do not follow Shariah.

There is a clearly defined line between the two, of which Shariah usually receives the media attention.

reply to post by FermiFlux


Nice reply, and you know what's even stranger?
Most of these so called experts on Islam have probably never even read the Bible..

Originally posted by backinblack
Most of the people complaining here have probably NEVER been to a Muslim country..

I'd rather not go to a country where they stone homosexuals in the public square simply for being homosexuals. I'd rather not go to a country where you get sentenced to death for telling the truth - that Muhammad wasn't a prophet but was instead a thief and apervert who mass murdered and destroyed ancient civilizations. I'd rather not go to a country where I can't walk down the street to the coffee shop by myself but instead have to get permission from my husband and have him escort me. I'd rather not go to a country where I can't drive a car simply because I am a female. I'd rather not go to a country where I'd get tossing in jail for holding hands with my husband in public. I'd rather not go to a contry that has 'morals police' who patrol the streets and who will beat me if my ankle or wrist is showing. etc etc etc

Not all cultures are worthy of respect. It's just that simple.

reply to post by FlyersFan


If I had to guess I'd say none, but tell me, how many of these countries have you visited??

You know, maybe many black people are scared to come to the US for fear of being strung up in a tree by men in white hoods..But guess what, It doesn't always happen...

Originally posted by Crutchley29

Like i already advised, I am referring to my country, of which Sunni's sadly do not exert control, I already stated that I know a lot of Muslims do not follow Shariah.

There is a clearly defined line between the two, of which Shariah usually receives the media attention.

The Sunni's don't assert control because they can completely comply with the western lifestyle and still tick all the boxes in Islam. Why would Sunni's campaign and receive media attention if there is nothing to change?

I find the amount of attention the Sharia's are receiving in our media to be ridiculous, and it's our own fault for giving them the smallest of hope that Sharia Law can be implemented, because every time the spotlight is on them, albeit negative news (99% of the time), it still gives them un-needed momentum.

It's simple, it is near impossible to implement Sharia Law in the UK, but the media here won't dare drop the barrage of negative outlets towards Sharia because Muslims are the current boogeyman in the west and they care about their ratings.

The Sunni's don't assert control because they can completely comply with the western lifestyle and still tick all the boxes in Islam.
No they can't - For a muslim to be ruled by Infidels is a shame and a disgrace - one that can only be absolved by Jihad, univerally understood as the conquest of Infidel lands for Islam!

I find the amount of attention the Sharia's are receiving in our media to be ridiculous, and it's our own fault for giving them the smallest of hope that Sharia Law can be implemented, because every time the spotlight is on them, albeit negative news (99% of the time), it still gives them un-needed momentum. ]

What sort of media are you watching!? - they are bending over backwards to avoid pointing out the horrors of Sharia law, or to make the equation between terrorists, honour killers, pirates etc and Islam!

It's simple, it is near impossible to implement Sharia Law in the UK,

The UK muslim population is increasing at ten times the rate of the native population - who do you suppose they are going to vote for in a few yrs time - hmmmmm? www.timesonline.co.uk...


but the media here won't dare drop the barrage of negative outlets towards Sharia because Muslims are the current boogeyman in the west and they care about their ratings.

What you don't seem to realise is that the small amount of news about muslims in the UK that manages to slip past the BBC PC censors, is hiding the true picture of what muslims are up to in the UK.

Originally posted by backinblack
You know, maybe many black people are scared to come to the US for fear of being strung up in a tree by men in white hoods..But guess what, It doesn't always happen...

Big difference .... the KKK and what they used to do are against the law. It's rare to find a cross burning on a lawn let alone a black person being strung up by a bunch of KKKers. HOWEVER ... what I posted is the RULE OF LAW in those lands. It's not rare. It's the law in those countries. They are strictly enforced. And being a woman, I haven't got much oooomph in their court systems. A woman's word in a court of law over there is practically useless.

Again .. no thanks.

there is what? how many kkk? lol

50-150?

how many crazy ass islamists? 1%-10%?

2 million? err..in numbers, give me a break. when the kkk start burning crosses in pakistan, call me.

Another stupid anti-muslim uninformed qthread. These are starting to wear thin. Hey if you guys are so obsesed with Muslims maybe you should go and actually meet some, read up about them, get educated. Then maybe you can stop spouting all this damn hatrid and intolerance.

we cannot be truly tolerant to islam

No, we can be tolerant to Islam and Islam can be tolerant to us. What we can't be tolerant to is folk like you spouting out this rubbish. You're no better than those extremists on the other side that re doing the same. It's people like you that are the issue.

Oh yeah, Sharia law is taking over the UK. Boo feckin hoo. I'm getting so fed up of this same piece of rubbish getting thrown about by folk that have no understanding of how Sharia, Halcha and Canon Law operate in this country, and who have no intention of actually finding out.

You all sit here, complaiing of this and that. Muslims this and that. Never looking in the mirror and seeing how you're part of the problem, how you're making it worse, how you only have intentions of making it worse and not better.

So many people on here should be ashamed of themselves.

No, we can be tolerant to Islam and Islam can be tolerant to us.


Wonderfull - we have a genius that is going to sort all this out - perhaps you would begin by explaining how aposty=death in the Koran, is going to be reconciled with freedom of religion in the West.

Originally posted by backinblack

Originally posted by Crutchley29
reply to post by backinblack

 

Indonesia and Maylasia are not Western countries; the point of this thread is to focus on the relationship between Western countries and Islam.

I dont know what country you are from, but in the UK and other countries in the EU we have a term called "Creeping Shariah" which basically describes the current methodical approach Shariah is taking to plant itself within our very fabric of society.

Shariah is already established in the UK's legal system.

If in doubt I would do some research on the subject, focus on the core concept of Shariah and not the interpretations from other sects.

So what your saying is you have NEVER been to a Muslim country and therefore know very little about their religion...
If the UK allows Shariah law to flourish then it's on their own heads as the VAST majority of Muslims are just as disgusted at Shariah law as you and me...
Why listen to a minority and then blame the majority??
Why doesn't the rest of the world consider ALL people from the UK as soccer holigans???
Lets ban them all!! Disgusting troublemakers that they are!!

I agree.
i'm from Malaysia and i don't support extremism. most of us muslims in Malaysia don't. Islamic extremism and failure of shariah law is a perspective of countries who invade 'extremist' countries, of which the wars are not to be won, while the oil and gas to be pumped or stolen the name of 'freedom', 'liberation' and 'justice'.