What awaits us after death???

Originally posted by poap420
It is taking me ridiculously long to finish.

I have a crazy working theory that because language is 'math' (number theory) then that means.. er... vaguely, that knowledge itself essentially, the collective unconscious... exists as an 'entity' (god?)

Have you read the keys to the kingdom? the 'architect' of the universe leaves behind a 'will' that contains her master plan for existence, her subordinates destroy this will as soon as the architect disappears from measurable reality. This will is literally made of 'words' but in the 'architects' language...

entities math... I believe so at this point.

So the sum of ALL species knowledge (extraterrestrials and inter-dimensional beings) is somehow, corporal and the knowledge itself can be viewed to have energy (vaguely) so, (vaguely) it is not inert, it desires to continue its manifestation... and its growth is ensured by this... er (vaguely) desire to reproduce. (its taking me so long to finish because when i make a break through, it often invalidates one- if not all- of the chapters I have already written)

So, in a sense, if you follow, 'god'/entity desires to spread all that is .. er.. 'just' (itself)
So basically everything we will ever know is out there.. time is essentially irrelevent except in our belief that it IS relevant.

Ok, I am following you most of the way here. Definitely with language as math and the collective unconscious as an entity/god. I get that if it is energy it'll grow and want to reproduce. However, why does it have to spread all that is just. What about all that is unjust?? Also, I get that everything we know is out there, we just have not been able to get to it all. However, if time is irrelevant, how are we able to reach the point of knowing all or will we never? Because our life's here are not forever. Through my belief in reincarnation I guess we would eventually know all and reincarnation would make time irrelevant, because when one lifes' time would be up the next would begin after it at some point. Making there be no shot clock, so to say, on learning everything possible.

I bet it is taking you forever, especially when something new destroys what you have worked on. Though the best things take a long time, so keep cracking. I believe you are on a good and very interesting path so far.

No, I have not read the Keys to the Kingdom. I just googled it and the series looks intriguing, I'll have to go out and get it soon. Thanks!

reply to post by poap420


btw, because of the whole having to re-write thing i plan on forming a collaborative thread when i get around to it to speed up the manuscripts completion.

Originally posted by poap420
reply to post by poap420

 

btw, because of the whole having to re-write thing i plan on forming a collaborative thread when i get around to it to speed up the manuscripts completion.

Sounds good to me. Let me know when you do get around to it, I would love to be a part of it.


To kyred

Can you elaborate more on the more living. Do you mean more lives after you die, like reincarnation? Or do you mean living in a heaven/hell type place? Or just your soul continues to live? Or something else?
I'd love to hear your thoughts on this interesting subject. Thanks in advance.

What do you guys think happen to the truly evil people when they die?

Because using knowledge you can step back and, i believe, as a neutral observer, realize that a being benefits more from not experiencing physical pain than experiencing it. (essentially you can apply that logic to many different realms of ttthought)

The pain itself (and emotions in general) inhibit the beings sense of 'self'/safety/protection, which in turn would inhibit the beings productivity, which would in turn prevent them from creating new knowledge/energy/math(?)

Vaguely I believe in a form of planned reincarnation... once you achieve essentially, a state of 'complete knowledge' (0 or neutral) You may, (idk shot in the dark here) enter a state of being akin to that that 'god' started out as. obviously through observing existence the first complete... er... 'entity' would be the wisest

reply to post by poap420


Hence why so many SPIRITUAL innovators have myths around them stating they ascended to 'heaven' (left the earth) in a pillar of light... i would argue there entities math/equation finally found both sides of the yardstick.

reply to post by squirelnutz


I think they are in a state of 'hell' while they intellectually grapple with how much they damaged others experience of reality. bbut no... er... 'punishment' by an outside force

The idea of karma is to balance out spiritual progress. That 'really evil' being would then incarnate as someone 'lower on the totem pole', so that they will have less of an oppurtunity to commit so much bad against the world

Originally posted by poap420

Because using knowledge you can step back and, i believe, as a neutral observer, realize that a being benefits more from not experiencing physical pain than experiencing it. (essentially you can apply that logic to many different realms of ttthought)

The pain itself (and emotions in general) inhibit the beings sense of 'self'/safety/protection, which in turn would inhibit the beings productivity, which would in turn prevent them from creating new knowledge/energy/math(?)

Vaguely I believe in a form of planned reincarnation... once you achieve essentially, a state of 'complete knowledge' (0 or neutral) You may, (idk shot in the dark here) enter a state of being akin to that that 'god' started out as. obviously through observing existence the first complete... er... 'entity' would be the wisest

edit on 13-11-2010 by poap420 because: incorrect formatting

Hmmm, this one I am not too sure on. I see where you are leading to how it could be preventing new knowledge. Though I still feel that without experience one would not have the knowledge of what it actually is like. So then that person would be at a loss there without that knowledge.

Can you have knowledge without experience???

I am with you that once you have completed all the cycles you are meant to through reincarnation that you possibly would enter a state of being akin to that of a 'god' I think all who reach this stage would be equal, since I think we are all one with each other. Though the first to complete it may possibly be just ahead of everyone else.

Originally posted by squirelnutz
What do you guys think happen to the truly evil people when they die?

Well as I said before I believe in reincarnation. I also believe in that in this world all is allowed, good and bad. In our lives we are all meant to experience everything and then we reach the state of being akin to a god, so to say. So if we are all meant to experience everything, at one point in our lives we have been an evil person. I could be wrong here on this, but this is what makes sense to me, as it justifies why there is evil people in our world.

Though when they die like everyone before they reincarnate, they see everything they have done and how it has affected everyone in the world. I would assume that this would be a terrible experience for someone who has committed terrible acts in their life, to witness the horrors that they have done to others.

Originally posted by poap420
reply to post by poap420

 

Hence why so many SPIRITUAL innovators have myths around them stating they ascended to 'heaven' (left the earth) in a pillar of light... i would argue there entities math/equation finally found both sides of the yardstick.

Definitely agree with you there. Those people have completed all their cycles and are done. They are where we aim to be eventually.

Originally posted by theUNKNOWNawaits

Originally posted by squirelnutz
What do you guys think happen to the truly evil people when they die?

Well as I said before I believe in reincarnation. I also believe in that in this world all is allowed, good and bad. In our lives we are all meant to experience everything and then we reach the state of being akin to a god, so to say. So if we are all meant to experience everything, at one point in our lives we have been an evil person. I could be wrong here on this, but this is what makes sense to me, as it justifies why there is evil people in our world.

Though when they die like everyone before they reincarnate, they see everything they have done and how it has affected everyone in the world. I would assume that this would be a terrible experience for someone who has committed terrible acts in their life, to witness the horrors that they have done to others.

It gets really scary when you realize 'evil' is almost purely a subjective concept.

We say killing in general is evil, but the killer whale has no construct of its 'evil' when it is eating a baby seal. We say Hitler is 'evil' but in his mind (not necessarily his spirit) he truly FELT justified in what he was doing...

So what separates what we as humans have always viewed in terms of 'absolutes' is our limitations (inherently imposed by our corporal existence) when it comes to communication- language like I said earlier is not the most efficient way of communicating.

Originally posted by poap420

It gets really scary when you realize 'evil' is almost purely a subjective concept.

We say killing in general is evil, but the killer whale has no construct of its 'evil' when it is eating a baby seal. We say Hitler is 'evil' but in his mind (not necessarily his spirit) he truly FELT justified in what he was doing...

So what separates what we as humans have always viewed in terms of 'absolutes' is our limitations (inherently imposed by our corporal existence) when it comes to communication- language like I said earlier is not the most efficient way of communicating.

Exactly!!!

There are definitions to the words in our languages, however everyone has their own definitions. That is why there is no real set of morals out there. You can not say be moral to someone and expect them to do what you think. One person's ideas of morals are totally different then another person's and so on. That is why I also try not to judge people, because as you said in their "mind (not necessarily spirit) they feel that what they are doing is justified by their morals or beliefs or whatever.

Language is definitely not the best way to communicate and is easily confusing. Yet it is the way of our lives.

reply to post by theUNKNOWNawaits


Hopefully people like us here at ATS will help the rest of humanity rewrite the dictionairy/commonvernacular definition to include what, to us, seems so logical.

In my mind... life=existence

Originally posted by poap420
reply to post by theUNKNOWNawaits

 

life=existence

Agreed

Yes, hopefully that day will come and a beautiful one it will be. Hopefully it will be sooner rather than later!!!

Here she blows.

abovetopsecret.com...

If you set a computer before me and declare it has some sort of problem, I can define that problem within minutes and most usually repair the issue so quickly that it's been said I seem to have supernatural powers. Super-Geek. What a title. It pays well though.
Now, what I do not have any experience at all in, is dying. I've NEVER done it before, I wouldn't know WHAT to expect. I know some pretty solid methods of getting the process started, such as stepping out into oncoming traffic, or making TWO comments to my mother-in-law in one sentence regarding her talkative nature and bulging waistline.
Just what IS this whole death business? From what I observe, it's when the organism stops functioning as a whole. No heartbeat, no brain activity, no conscious moving about, no blood flow. If left to it's own devices, over the period of a few short months, this dead body will have been a catalyst for MILLIONS of life forms using is as food and shelter. Then of course as nature has her way, they will inevitably excrete what is left over into the environment...and well, you know the rest.
"Death" as we are discussing it is death of the organism, not mere cellular death, as this happens all the time and we are hardly even aware of it. Now I've heard that our bodily cells are replaced entirely every seven years, but I really do not believe it is that frequent, nor is it that complete. In a nutshell though, I do believe that the vast majority of our cells have been replaced over the years, some more often than others - maybe even some not at all such as the ones in our neural cortex. Once again, "computer guy" here - I AM most likely WRONG.
I've often heard as well that there is no difference at the atomic level between living tissue and say...a rock. I can believe that - carbon is always carbon, copper is always copper, hydrogen is always hydrogen UNLESS some extreme forces come into play and change it to something else.
I have often tried to imagine not existing. The easiest way for me to do so is to try to think about all the time that passed before I was born. Now THAT 4.X billion years really FLEW by before that fateful night in 1970.

If you had asked me 30 years ago, this same question, I would answer "You either go to heaven, or hell"
The same question 20 years ago, I would answer "The dead are in the grave, unconscious, and will be resurrected to eternal life or won't be resurrected at all"
10 years ago..."I'm not so sure now....maybe you stick around, or go to a place of your own making"
And now....well, the only thing that I'm certain of now is that I know absolutely nothing about it at all. I would like to believe that I will have an existence later on at some point, being alive does have it's perks.
I recant my earlier statement, I DO know a few things, or I THINK I know them anyway. Here goes:

The universe will expand forever, or either it won't. It may contract once again and we'll have a big bang all over again.
I know that I can exist. I've already done it at least once. I AM a possibility in this cosmos. This is all I know, for a fact.

I used to subscribe to the reincarnation theory, where we are in a learning phase. If this is true, we need to pay more attention in class because nothing we are learning is having any bearing at all on us in our next lives. It seems that the only things we are learning is greed and destruction.

As I said before, I most likely am grossly mistaken. We could die, and wake up to find ourselves actually 20ft tall alien species of insectoid-reptile living on an industrial planet in which we are all workers for the hive, and this whole life experience was nothing more than a simulation we partook of during our lunch break.

Originally posted by sykickvision
If you set a computer before me and declare it has some sort of problem, I can define that problem within minutes and most usually repair the issue so quickly that it's been said I seem to have supernatural powers. Super-Geek. What a title. It pays well though.
Now, what I do not have any experience at all in, is dying. I've NEVER done it before, I wouldn't know WHAT to expect. I know some pretty solid methods of getting the process started, such as stepping out into oncoming traffic, or making TWO comments to my mother-in-law in one sentence regarding her talkative nature and bulging waistline.
Just what IS this whole death business? From what I observe, it's when the organism stops functioning as a whole. No heartbeat, no brain activity, no conscious moving about, no blood flow. If left to it's own devices, over the period of a few short months, this dead body will have been a catalyst for MILLIONS of life forms using is as food and shelter. Then of course as nature has her way, they will inevitably excrete what is left over into the environment...and well, you know the rest.
"Death" as we are discussing it is death of the organism, not mere cellular death, as this happens all the time and we are hardly even aware of it. Now I've heard that our bodily cells are replaced entirely every seven years, but I really do not believe it is that frequent, nor is it that complete. In a nutshell though, I do believe that the vast majority of our cells have been replaced over the years, some more often than others - maybe even some not at all such as the ones in our neural cortex. Once again, "computer guy" here - I AM most likely WRONG.
I've often heard as well that there is no difference at the atomic level between living tissue and say...a rock. I can believe that - carbon is always carbon, copper is always copper, hydrogen is always hydrogen UNLESS some extreme forces come into play and change it to something else.
I have often tried to imagine not existing. The easiest way for me to do so is to try to think about all the time that passed before I was born. Now THAT 4.X billion years really FLEW by before that fateful night in 1970.

If you had asked me 30 years ago, this same question, I would answer "You either go to heaven, or hell"
The same question 20 years ago, I would answer "The dead are in the grave, unconscious, and will be resurrected to eternal life or won't be resurrected at all"
10 years ago..."I'm not so sure now....maybe you stick around, or go to a place of your own making"
And now....well, the only thing that I'm certain of now is that I know absolutely nothing about it at all. I would like to believe that I will have an existence later on at some point, being alive does have it's perks.
I recant my earlier statement, I DO know a few things, or I THINK I know them anyway. Here goes:

The universe will expand forever, or either it won't. It may contract once again and we'll have a big bang all over again.
I know that I can exist. I've already done it at least once. I AM a possibility in this cosmos. This is all I know, for a fact.

I used to subscribe to the reincarnation theory, where we are in a learning phase. If this is true, we need to pay more attention in class because nothing we are learning is having any bearing at all on us in our next lives. It seems that the only things we are learning is greed and destruction.

As I said before, I most likely am grossly mistaken. We could die, and wake up to find ourselves actually 20ft tall alien species of insectoid-reptile living on an industrial planet in which we are all workers for the hive, and this whole life experience was nothing more than a simulation we partook of during our lunch break.

Love the solid method on commenting on you mother in law's talkative nature and bulging waistline. Hilarious.

I would agree totally that we all know nothing and can be certain of nothing. I did though ask not what you know, but what you believe will happen. These are two different thing. You say that you would like to believe there is an existence later on at some point. Believing in something is better than nothing. What kind of existence do you see our fate after death to be, possibly???

There is a lot of greed and destruction out there. For me though I justify it as there are a lot of people in our world and I lot of them are in early stages in their cycles. There are only a few who have made it completely through and most are at the beginning and as you get farther in the cycle there are less in the world who are at this stage. That is my opinion, but who knows, as pointed out no one for sure.

Crazy thought at the end there.

Does anyone believe that our lives are just a simulation or a dream, and that in another reality/world when we die hear we just simply wake up and go on with that life? Thoughts on this??

I know we got a little off topic of the subject of the thread early this morning, but what are other people's thoughts on what awaits us when we die? Looking forward to hearing more thoughts on this interesting subject.....

After death we go through a period of healing.You get yourself all patched up emotiopnally.Then you make an evaluation on what your next step will be.There are so many options, it is like a giant buffet.It is basically like waking up on a saturday morning and choosing what to do.You may have to chose a life somewhere so you can straighten a certain situation out .You may choose to stay idle for awhile where you can be useful as a planner for the universe.You help coordinate natural cycles ...to make sure everything maintains a balance.There are all sorts of enjoyable activities if you are between lives.This is a very magnificent place,it is your home,filled with unimagineable peace and beauty.You will be surrounded by loved ones,your real family.You dont have to ever leave home if you dont want to.When you choose to take a life somewhere,it is like going to work for the day.You go to work,then you come home shortly.At your permanent home,there is total security.You never want for anything.You can pick and choose lives,which is the beauty of it.The conversation between you and family and freinds when your are home is great.Trying to discuss different lives on different planets,the animals,natural features...proves fascinating to everybody.

reply to post by theUNKNOWNawaits


I agree with you UNKNOWN; I believe in reincarnation.

I'm a computer scientist but I don't believe we, with all we feel and perceive, are simply programs running on meat machines.

What would be the purpose?

Furthermore, there are too many well documented cases of people who were not even born yet, "remembering" where people were slain and buried, or other events that happened in WW2 and other events through out history - that tells me somehow our memories, and maybe what makes us US is transffered.

I think the human body, specifically the brain, is more a receiver than a processor. I think a consciousness attaches to a brain, like an antenna brings in a radio signal.

I believe like the hindus - that's it's a process of refinement. Some ultimate goal we are intended to head towards, over many lifetimes.

So if I wrong, and we just die and go into oblivion, non-existence, what harm is there to thinking we had a higher purpose?

We have no choice but how we live our lives today, either way it goes - right?

Originally posted by sykickvision
If you set a computer before me and declare it has some sort of problem, I can define that problem within minutes and most usually repair the issue so quickly that it's been said I seem to have supernatural powers. Super-Geek. What a title. It pays well though.
Now, what I do not have any experience at all in, is dying. I've NEVER done it before, I wouldn't know WHAT to expect. I know some pretty solid methods of getting the process started, such as stepping out into oncoming traffic, or making TWO comments to my mother-in-law in one sentence regarding her talkative nature and bulging waistline.
Just what IS this whole death business? From what I observe, it's when the organism stops functioning as a whole. No heartbeat, no brain activity, no conscious moving about, no blood flow. If left to it's own devices, over the period of a few short months, this dead body will have been a catalyst for MILLIONS of life forms using is as food and shelter. Then of course as nature has her way, they will inevitably excrete what is left over into the environment...and well, you know the rest.
"Death" as we are discussing it is death of the organism, not mere cellular death, as this happens all the time and we are hardly even aware of it. Now I've heard that our bodily cells are replaced entirely every seven years, but I really do not believe it is that frequent, nor is it that complete. In a nutshell though, I do believe that the vast majority of our cells have been replaced over the years, some more often than others - maybe even some not at all such as the ones in our neural cortex. Once again, "computer guy" here - I AM most likely WRONG.
I've often heard as well that there is no difference at the atomic level between living tissue and say...a rock. I can believe that - carbon is always carbon, copper is always copper, hydrogen is always hydrogen UNLESS some extreme forces come into play and change it to something else.
I have often tried to imagine not existing. The easiest way for me to do so is to try to think about all the time that passed before I was born. Now THAT 4.X billion years really FLEW by before that fateful night in 1970.

If you had asked me 30 years ago, this same question, I would answer "You either go to heaven, or hell"
The same question 20 years ago, I would answer "The dead are in the grave, unconscious, and will be resurrected to eternal life or won't be resurrected at all"
10 years ago..."I'm not so sure now....maybe you stick around, or go to a place of your own making"
And now....well, the only thing that I'm certain of now is that I know absolutely nothing about it at all. I would like to believe that I will have an existence later on at some point, being alive does have it's perks.
I recant my earlier statement, I DO know a few things, or I THINK I know them anyway. Here goes:

The universe will expand forever, or either it won't. It may contract once again and we'll have a big bang all over again.
I know that I can exist. I've already done it at least once. I AM a possibility in this cosmos. This is all I know, for a fact.

I used to subscribe to the reincarnation theory, where we are in a learning phase. If this is true, we need to pay more attention in class because nothing we are learning is having any bearing at all on us in our next lives. It seems that the only things we are learning is greed and destruction.

As I said before, I most likely am grossly mistaken. We could die, and wake up to find ourselves actually 20ft tall alien species of insectoid-reptile living on an industrial planet in which we are all workers for the hive, and this whole life experience was nothing more than a simulation we partook of during our lunch break.

What an insightful viewpoint, I really have never viewed things from that angle.

Im going to have to think about this for a few hours, and then come back and try to better understand your ideas, and hopefully better relate mine to yours.

Brilliant dude