Children should be protected from bigoted Christian foster parents

reply to post by mysticalzoe

OMG!! Read the damn bible!!

FYI I have read several of the bibles, which is more than I can say for many if not most xtians

Jesus did not give Moses the ten commandments GOD did, big difference!! Jesus wasn't even around in the Old Testament,

According to most xtians the claim is that jesus (the one that appears in the bibles NT) is god ie he and yahwhe are one and the same being.

I am informed "by chrsitians" that jesus is "god" ie the creator of all that there is, was or will ever be, because jesus claimed that "he and the father are one" etc.

I do not make the claim that jesus, is god my friend I merely observe the christian claim, of course you may not believe that jesus is god, you may beleive that he's was a prophet or that he was second in command the son of the yahwhe god type thing.

Whatever, the general consensus of christianity is that jesus is "god" but he and yahwhe are one and the same being.

That being the case if jesus and yahweh are one then jesus, being an omnipotent being could not "not be around" as you put it as this would negate the claim to him being a divine being extant from the begining.

Those are OLD and OUTDATED testament laws!! Jesus and God are not the same thing!! I wish Christians and people like you would get that through their head!!

Again, I don't make the claim to jesus' divinity quite frankly neither do the bibles, you really have to work hard and apply some serious cranial gymnastics to make the bibles read that jesus and yahwhe are the same being.

Nevertheless, the laws given by the god "yahwhe" were never changed this is quite clear as the jews still adhere to them. It is only when jesus comes into the narrative that things go down silly street but unfortunately for xtians who want to cherry pick the bibles to suit themselves jesus was quite clear that "not one word" of the law was to be changed which is why he did.

There, do with it what you will!! Good day to you!

Do I take it that you are a jew ? Or do just see jesus as the bibles describe, a contender to the throne of David ?

reply to post by sisgood

My God never endorsed hurting children

Oh really ?


Second Kings 2:23-24 - - - - -the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, - - - - - . And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.



Luke 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

Leviticus 20:9 For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.


Deuteronomy 21:18-21 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; …And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die:..................


Deuteronomy 13:6-10 - - - - , or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, - - - - secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; …thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die;.


Leviticus 20:12 And if a man lie with his daughter in law, both of them shall surely be put to death:


Exodus 20:5 - - - - - for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

.

Deuteronomy 28:18(verse 32) - - - - Thy sons and thy daughters shall be given unto another people… (verse 41) Thou shalt beget sons and daughters, but thou shalt not enjoy them; for they shall go into captivity.

Joshua 7:24-25 - - - - - …and his sons, and his daughters… and they brought them unto the valley of Achor. And Joshua said, Why hast thou troubled us? the Lord shall trouble thee this day. And all Israel stoned him with stones, and burned them with fire, after they had stoned them with stones.


Second Samuel 12:11-14 - - - Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die.


Isaiah 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers…


Oops nearly forgot , every single little boy that had his genitals mutilated on the instruction of your bible god

reply to post by The Djin


Can of worms, you say? May be, but I am too old to care. I love a good discussion, and love to educate those who live in chains and bondage of organized religion that there is no truth to their teachings, and a better way without their dogma. Ever read any reference to Jesus other that the NT? And don't start with Titus Flavius Josephus, there are but a few lines, and they were put there by another person at a later date. Philo of Alexandria never mentioned such a superman. I say the Piso Family of Rome were paid well (by Emperor Constantine)for their hard work in creating the New Testament, and, by the way, a few days ago I happened to see a "new" version, called, "The Holy Bible - The New Translation." I wonder translated from what, exactly? The King James version? Let me see here, the original books were written in ancient Hebrew, then translated into Greek, then Latin, for christ sake, the language of the Holy Roman Church. Then it was translated into English. King James changed it again, and with each new translation something is lost. Most Christians, as I said before, do not, or can not read the entire things and gain any real insight from it. Ever try to read the book of Isaiah? You cannot read it properly! Something like 8 different people wrote that. The five Scrolls or books of the Pentateuch tell the history of the Israelites... from the creation of the universe, through the exodus from Egypt and the revelation at Mount Sinai, to their entry into the so called Promised Land. The first book, Genesis, contains most of the stories--the creation, (two versions) Adam and Eve, (from the ancient book by the same name) Cain and Abel, and Noah; and the patriarchs Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, etc., ending with the story of Joseph and the arrival of the Israelites in Egypt.

The book of Exodus tells the story of the enslavement in Egypt, ( they were not slave, they were a heavily armed mercenary force, the Bible says that, in effect) the exodus, the revelation of the Ten Commandments (after the Quabbala was smashed my Moyses, correct spelling) and the Law at Mount Sinai, the Golden Calf, (worship of Baal and the construction of the Ark of the Covenant. (a radio to speak to the God, most likely an Annunaki) The book of Numbers tells of the Israelites' wanderings in the desert and the legal and religious structure of their society. The book of Leviticus deals largely with the rules of the priesthood, sacrifice, and worship. (and torture and murder) The book of Deuteronomy is essentially Moses' farewell address to the Israelites as they are about to enter the Promised Land, recapping much of what was covered in the prior three books.

How did these books come to be written? There's a wide range of opinion, I have only one.

reply to post by intrepid

That's YOUR belief though. How does a kid know what s/he wants until they know the options?

I disagree. It is more a moral rather than a belief. I would be happy to support my children in any religious endeavor they wish to set out on, whether it is Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, it doesn't matter. I would never force my beliefs or thought system on anybody!

reply to post by autowrench


Most excellent post thanks for the contribution in the battle to educate the ignorant christians

Its not even worth trying to talk sense to the delusional Christians. The huge majority of them dont even know ANYTHING about their OWN faith. And the ones who do know a thing or two, cant even agree amongst their fellow believers!!!!!

They are in a web of delusion and in desperation do they always fabricate additional nonsense to explain the original nonsense. So much nonsense that its unreal. Their intolerant silly set of beliefs ARE extremely HARMFUL to innocent minds that do NOT want to HATE others. That is until of course religion is introduced to them. VERY SAD!!!!

I see this thread has now become a smear campaign against Christians and their bible when I assumed this was about Christians fostering children.

Since many of you are against Christians fostering children perhaps some of you would seriously consider fostering a child since you have a whole lot to say on the subject of their beliefs?

I guess not.

Ignorance is bliss among the pack on this thread

Originally posted by The Djin
the battle to educate the ignorant christians

You're the bigot in this equation. Your self righteousness eclipses ANY real attempt at objectivity. This is not an equiry to get to truth, you are only using this forum as a platform for your own hatred.

I am a christian, and while i'm not going to say much more than that, you're wrong, about a lot of stuff. Not even about God or the church, you raise some valid points. You're wrong about yourself, and others.

I hope you learn the truth, but you have to change your attitude first.

There, said what i had to, i'm out.

Djin...
I have come to enjoy reading your threads and posts, as they are always, without exception, attacks on Christians. You are nothing, if not consistent, and I admire that!
Incite, offend, retort... your behaviors only underline what my core beliefs are, my friend. It's actually interesting.

I also love the secular society quotes... No bias or slanting on any of the text you actually did attribute from there...

However, just thought I would throw this in the pile.

On wiki, secularity is defined as such: Secularity (adjective form secular) is the state of being separate from religion...
..This does not necessarily imply hostility to God or religion, though some use the term this way (see "secularism", below); Martin Luther used to speak of secular work as a vocation from God for most Christians.
en.wikipedia.org...

Just had to comment on the "secularity".

P.S. It's too darn bad Vlad the Impaler was a "Christian". You would have liked him, I think.
Have a great morning!

reply to post by harryhaller

I hope you learn the truth, but you have to change your attitude first.

There, said what i had to, i'm out.

What ? throw your toys in the dirt poke out your tongue wave a bible at me and run away ? Nothing new there .

Thanks for your contribution

Truth ?

Ah, bring back the good old days eh? When people like me could be burned at the stake for questioning the chrisitan delusion and you could feel safe and cozy spending your life pretending to love an imaginary man that lives in the sky.

Truth ?

What exactly does a christian know of truth ?

Millions of children are indoctrinated through fear into unquestioningly believing in the biggest lie of all time without a shred of evidence and totally contradictory to logic and reason.

What exactly is the benefit of joining your cult should one (mercifully) not have already been indoctrinated into it or another like it ?

Greater wealth ? Christians are as poor or rich as non xtians Ah it's not about material gain is it ?

Better Health ? It appears that chrisitans spend as much on health care and succumb to diseas as much as none chrisitians


Better marriages ? Well christians get divorced about the same rate as non christians and the levels (for want of a better word) of contentment within the marriages rarely differ.

Improved relationships with other people ? Hm, it's not that easy to spot an atheist or jew,muslim or Buddhist at a party is it ? There again if history is anything to go by one should perhaps be a little on guard as you never know when the jesus/yawhe god will instruct his follower (who happens to appear tob getting on fine with everybody at the moment) to kill you for no better reason than a test of obedience.


Better sex ? Me thinks not here either, your instruction manual is quite specific with who you are to have sex with and how.

So what exactly is your imaginary man for ? It is quite clear that one can get on quite fine without him and it could be argued much better indeed.

Your club has nothing of value to offer humanity my friend, humanity can do quite fine without being in your club and I for one would argue that humanity would improve in leaps and bounds without it.

In the case of fostering a child I certainly wouldn't have to even consider the question of what should I do say or think if the child had been born gay.

Thank you for you contribution to moving our species one more step closer to an age of reason.

May the god of reason light your way.

reply to post by The Djin


Yes, i can see you worship the god of reason. Knowledge. Gnosis. Good and evil.

Your little rant above shows clearly how agenda driven you are. And how hateful towards the world.

Your light of reason has blinded you ... to truth. You know the truth, but accept it not. Hard heart and pride.

May God bless you brother.

reply to post by thegoodearth

Djin... I have come to enjoy reading your threads and posts, as they are always, without exception, attacks on Christians. You are nothing, if not consistent, and I admire that!

Thank you I aim to please however, I must correct you here I quite openly attack christianity this much is true but I don't attempt to attack individual christians.

Needless to say this is obviously misconstrued on times which is understandable as some people can have wobblies if they think their decisions are being attacked when in fact they are being vigouresly challenged and questioned.

Perhaps it would be easier to see where I'm coming from if one considered my intention not unlike condemning the act of a man having sex with another man but not the man himself , but without attempt to prevent the man from living how he chooses To be fair my experienc is that this is quite a difficult concept for a christian understand

Incite, offend, retort... your behaviors only underline what my core beliefs are, my friend. It's actually interesting.

Inciting and offending, indeed this is quite interesting considering the allegation is mostly made by the ones claiming the moral high ground in enlightenment.

To be honest I don't ever recall taking offense at anything a christian has ever said to me or called me although the intention has clearly been there, perhaps I must be too stupid to understand the attack upon me, lucky me eh ?

I also love the secular society quotes... No bias or slanting on any of the text you actually did attribute from there...

Maybe maybe not I suppose it's subjective I can't speak for others as each member of the NSS has their own mind views differ which is borne out with a lack of doctrine but a common objective.

However, just thought I would throw this in the pile. On wiki, secularity is defined as such: Secularity (adjective form secular) is the state of being separate from religion... ..This does not necessarily imply hostility to God or religion, though some use the term this way (see "secularism", below); Martin Luther used to speak of secular work as a vocation from God for most Christians. en.wikipedia.org... Just had to comment on the "secularity".

I am not hostile to whichever go this article is referring to, come on that would be dumb if I don't actually believe there are these gods let alone that particular one .

My atheism and secularism are two different thing my friend, atheist defines my view point secularist is a representation of how I choose to live and what type of society I would prefer to live in.

P.S. It's too darn bad Vlad the Impaler was a "Christian". You would have liked him, I think. Have a great morning!

Hey what a coincidence, Adolf Hitler was also a christian, seems like their ideology can bring the best out of people .

reply to post by harryhaller

Yes, i can see you worship the god of reason. Knowledge. Gnosis. Good and evil.

Amazing, you managed to turn reason into good and evil how clever of you

Your little rant above shows clearly how agenda driven you are. And how hateful towards the world.

Agenda ? Pleas enlighten me as to what you think my agenda is so I can agree or disagree.
Hateful toward the world ? I think not matey boy perhaps I hate what some on the world do but not who they are.

Anyhoo, wasn't it your god guy that created hate ? Perhaps you should thank him for all the hate he created, but be careful he could turn around and smite you for not observing it was a perceptional bias on your part that made you in error.

Your light of reason has blinded you ... to truth. You know the truth, but accept it not. Hard heart and pride.

Wonderful words almost poetic, but they don't actually mean anything do they ? They don't actually address my earlier post but deflect from the obvious observation that christianity has nothing to offer apart from words without content meaning or reason.

Nothing new here then . as I said wave a bible at me and run away Sunday is coming, recharge the batteries for another week no one in the sky answereing back.

May God bless you brother.

Thank you, it's nice to have a well mannered dialogue

Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh

Originally posted by The Djin
What's moral about teaching a child that the way that he was born is somehow repugnant and that he will be tortured for all eternity for it by the very being that has allegedly created him like it ?

Even the most fanatical Christians will tell you that Children are cherished, no matter who they came from or how they came to existence. Read the Bible story of Jesus and the little Children.

Oh poppycock.

My Christian parents,who used to belt me so badly they'd knock me unconscious and leave me covered in bruises, on learning that my brothers had raped me and made me pregnant, tried to kill me.
A friend's Christian parents disowned him when he told them he was homosexual, have never seen him since.
A local born-again primary school teacher had a reputation for injuring children.
A local paedophile who has abused at least a dozen children and done time for it is a devout Christian, - and the church he attends has defended him, protected him, and has him running a club for handicapped children.

I've known a heap of Christians who have gone beyond cruel in their treatment of children.

reply to post by bluemirage5

I see this thread has now become a smear campaign against Christians and their bible when I assumed this was about Christians fostering children.

Well, let's be honest about it the topic is pretty much a smear against the ridiculous beliefs that have the potential to cause serious harm to a child being fostered.

It's a pretty piss poor turn out from the chrsitian corner my friend there's been little debate refuting the claim.

I'm quite disappointed at the christian lack of christian input, I don't think they see the bigger picture here.

Should the council in question win this case (which they appear to have done) absolutely then it will likely become a standard that will spread across the country.

The next logical step will be for the councils to follow this reasoning through and have any christian teachings removed from schools. Of course the reasoning has to apply across the board so efforts will have to made to prevent christians indoctrinating their own children as a foster parent can not be seen to be a safer bet than the natural parent in the eyes of those that saw potential harm in the first place.

This thing is not going to go away or get buried but steadily escalate especially so in the UK where the social services have been severely hammered for their incompetence of late.

Needless to say things are going to get very complicated, it would appear that christianity has made a rod for its' own back by making attempts to prevent gays and lesbians adopting or fostering.

To my mind the simplest solution is nearly always the right one, so to resolve this problem amicably putting the childrens' best interest first. I would propose ( and I'm not on my own here) that the churches take it upon themselves to withdraw all public copies of the bibles and replace them with edited versions that don't contain the bigotry ,misogyny and instructions on how to kill or maim people etc.

Yes I do appreciate the less informed and more ignorant christians will complain about changing their book, but it could be pointed out that their book has been changed over and over many times. Also most of the passages in question are already claimed to be ignored or not relevant by most chrisitians that enter into discussion of them so it will make no difference to them.

Perhaps for the sake of good will, a couple of original copies of the bibles containing all the homophobia, bigotry, racism misogyny etc could be held in a few museums for the children to peruse when they're old enough to choose to do so.

Since many of you are against Christians fostering children perhaps some of you would seriously consider fostering a child since you have a whole lot to say on the subject of their beliefs?

Perhaps you should take the trouble in finding out how many foster parents have no beliefs before you nonsensical remarks like this.

reply to post by Kailassa

Oh poppycock. My Christian parents,who used to belt me so badly they'd knock me unconscious and leave me covered in bruises, on learning that my brothers had raped me and made me pregnant, tried to kill me.
A friend's Christian parents disowned him when he told them he was homosexual, have never seen him since.
A local born-again primary school teacher had a reputation for injuring children. A local paedophile who has abused at least a dozen children and done time for it is a devout Christian, - and the church he attends has defended him, protected him, and has him running a club for handicapped children. I've known a heap of Christians who have gone beyond cruel in their treatment of children.

Dear god !! I've never read anything like that before,

Not to make light of your experiences but have you considered writing a book ?

Originally posted by pplrnuts
Its not even worth trying to talk sense to the delusional Christians. The huge majority of them dont even know ANYTHING about their OWN faith. And the ones who do know a thing or two, cant even agree amongst their fellow believers!!!!!

They are in a web of delusion and in desperation do they always fabricate additional nonsense to explain the original nonsense. So much nonsense that its unreal. Their intolerant silly set of beliefs ARE extremely HARMFUL to innocent minds that do NOT want to HATE others. That is until of course religion is introduced to them. VERY SAD!!!!

You show me an innocent mind and I will gladly walk away from my faith. YOU are saying WE are delusional WHEN WE are ALL EQUAL! Maybe you believe it is nonsense but why do you care what I believe? If my faith helps me lead a good life why should I stop because one peanut said your faith is delusional!

These beliefs aren't harmful. Have Christian harmed others people? Yes. Have Atheists? Yes. So what makes us two DIFFERENT? Do you think you are more innocent and free than Christians because you believe you think for yourself? Because in the end, all you are doing is following someone elses work too.

Your rant with emphasize on certain words is a form of delusion. You are one of those people who think the world would be a perfect place without religion. Wouldn't there be wars over food, power, and land?

If you seriously think not than your innocent mind has not learned a thing about humanity.

reply to post by harryhaller

Does it occur to you that christians are one of the few groups left that still believe in the family? It's all very well and good accusing christians ... of anything at all. But they still have families, it's not their kids that are left on the streets

Hmmmmm

Originally posted by The Djin
reply to post by bluemirage5

 

I see this thread has now become a smear campaign against Christians and their bible when I assumed this was about Christians fostering children.

Well, let's be honest about it the topic is pretty much a smear against the ridiculous beliefs that have the potential to cause serious harm to a child being fostered.

It's a pretty piss poor turn out from the chrsitian corner my friend there's been little debate refuting the claim.

I'm quite disappointed at the christian lack of christian input, I don't think they see the bigger picture here.

Should the council in question win this case (which they appear to have done) absolutely then it will likely become a standard that will spread across the country.

The next logical step will be for the councils to follow this reasoning through and have any christian teachings removed from schools. Of course the reasoning has to apply across the board so efforts will have to made to prevent christians indoctrinating their own children as a foster parent can not be seen to be a safer bet than the natural parent in the eyes of those that saw potential harm in the first place.

This thing is not going to go away or get buried but steadily escalate especially so in the UK where the social services have been severely hammered for their incompetence of late.

Needless to say things are going to get very complicated, it would appear that christianity has made a rod for its' own back by making attempts to prevent gays and lesbians adopting or fostering.

To my mind the simplest solution is nearly always the right one, so to resolve this problem amicably putting the childrens' best interest first. I would propose ( and I'm not on my own here) that the churches take it upon themselves to withdraw all public copies of the bibles and replace them with edited versions that don't contain the bigotry ,misogyny and instructions on how to kill or maim people etc.

Yes I do appreciate the less informed and more ignorant christians will complain about changing their book, but it could be pointed out that their book has been changed over and over many times. Also most of the passages in question are already claimed to be ignored or not relevant by most chrisitians that enter into discussion of them so it will make no difference to them.

Perhaps for the sake of good will, a couple of original copies of the bibles containing all the homophobia, bigotry, racism misogyny etc could be held in a few museums for the children to peruse when they're old enough to choose to do so.

Since many of you are against Christians fostering children perhaps some of you would seriously consider fostering a child since you have a whole lot to say on the subject of their beliefs?

Perhaps you should take the trouble in finding out how many foster parents have no beliefs before you nonsensical remarks like this.

because it is idiotic to even consider christians are worse than anyone else.

i will teach a kid that there is no god and they are just here because i get money from the state to take care of them?

wait, islam! ya that's good too! here is a toy ak-47 and a bandana for ramadan.

then you can protest all that is not islam in this western democracy.

what is my motivation to take care of them? love?

is that something only atheists have for others?

"yes, we can celebrate christmas but not buy into the dogma, little one"
"what is dogma?"

"there is no god, my son"
"i'm sorry but there is no god to love you, but i do"

"there is only me to love you"

reply to post by The Djin


Since you were POUNDING on the door,I decided to answer it!
1.You have complained about the poor christian turn out on this thread.
Many, who have become familiar to your rantings on these topics,don't
listen to you anymore,get off your soap box dearie.
2.Christians do see the bigger picture,people like you,don't.You are all
in self-denial.
3.In the U.S.,we do have separation of church and state,which includes
public education.That is why a lot of christians put their children in church
schools.Some even home-school their children.
4.You go to far when you suggest that..."efforts will have to be made to
prevent christians indoctrinating their own children".
Your constant bashing of any religious teachings are noted,applauded
by some,ignored by others.