The Holes of F-911

Originally posted by KrazyIvan
but not mentioning something when you are trying to present the "whole truth" is decptive. all of this movies are only made to serve moore's liberal agenda

So true but moore also lies when he calls them documentaries.

Originally posted by PB
You have shown a link between Bush and Bin Laden's brother. Now show a link between Bin Laden and his brother.

Remember that Bin Laden has disowned several of his sons, I doubt that there is a close relationship between Osama and his brother. If I recall correctly, Osama's whole fanily disagrees and condemns his actions.

There you have it. Guilt by association.

Originally posted by goose
I watch the news, I've heard the facts long before Moore used them in his documentary. And here is another fact your opinion does not matter to me!

Please, tell me what news you watch. In addition, a "moore documentary" is an oxymoron.

nanna_of_6, do you really believe that moore won't intentionally put things out of context?

In a Canadian paper, Moore was qouted as calling Americans the dumbest people on the planet. In my local paper in the editorial section a good guy retorts to Moore's comment "Well he's somewhat right about American's being dumb. The dumb ones are the ones who go see his movies and believe them".

He has admitted to a paper that he stretched the truth for effect in Columbine.

I have discovererd another link, its a pretty big read.

LINK

Also refer to these links for more of his 9/11 fallacies.

Link

At that one Moore is qouted byThe New York Times "

Any attempts to libel me will be met by force,'" Fahrenheit 9/11 director Michael Moore told the New York Times on Sunday (June 20, 2004). "The most important thing we have is truth on our side. If they persist in telling lies, knowingly telling a lie with malice, then I'll take them to court."

link
Columbine

One of my favorite Moore moments was when he claimed he had the Abu Ghabi abuse footage before anyone else.

Originally posted by PB


Sorry but in a family of 50, and a link that isnt even really a link to a family member that ISNT one of the people convicted of dealing with Bush is nothing.

Tell me something, PB, do you personally know any of the members of the Bin Laden family ? I sure don't. That's why I provided a "url", to show the link. Until you can come up with something else proving other-wise, I believe the proof I've given is good enough.

Originally posted by BigJohn
nanna_of_6, do you really believe that moore won't intentionally put things out of context?

Big John, I'm sure that Moore intentionally created F9/11 in the way that he did, to open the eyes of America to the way Bush and his Administration really are and to show the American people how far the "news media" will go to hide things from the public, that should have been shown.
F9/11 wasn't only about Bush/Cheney , it was also about the news-media and how they DO NOT show ALL the news.
If you had seen F9/11, you would understand what I'm talking about, ie; Inauguration Day for G W Bush, for instances, American people crowding the streets, sidewalks, for blocks, throwing tomatoes, eggs and other things at the car Bush was riding in,........ did the "news-media" show that when they televised Bush on his way to be inaugurated into office ? No they did not ! Why didn't they show that ? Because it would show what thousands of Americans thought of George W Bush , it was almost a riot, that day ,...... people trying to stop that "oaf" from taking the "oath of office".

And there's NO WAY Michael Moore made that up, .
Michael Moore "loves and embraces" America, he just hates what Bush & Co has done to the country we love and the media's helping them do it by "covering-up" for the Oaf & Co.

[edit on 8-7-2004 by nanna_of_6]

Originally posted by nanna_of_6

Originally posted by BigJohn
nanna_of_6, do you really believe that moore won't intentionally put things out of context?

Big John, I'm sure that Moore intentionally created F9/11 in the way that he did, to open the eyes of America to the way Bush and his Administration really are and to show the American people how far the "news media" will go to hide things from the public, that should have been shown.
F9/11 wasn't only about Bush/Cheney , it was also about the news-media and how they DO NOT show ALL the news.
If you had seen F9/11, you would understand what I'm talking about, ie; Inauguration Day for G W Bush, for instances, American people crowding the streets, sidewalks, for blocks, throwing tomatoes, eggs and other things at the car Bush was riding in,........ did the "news-media" show that when they televised Bush on his way to be inaugurated into office ? No they did not ! Why didn't they show that ? Because it would show what thousands of Americans thought of George W Bush , it was almost a riot, that day ,...... people trying to stop that "oaf" from taking the "oath of office".

And there's NO WAY Michael Moore made that up,

.
Michael Moore "loves and embraces" America, he just hates what Bush & Co has done to the country we love and the media's helping them do it by "covering-up" for the Oaf & Co.

[edit on 8-7-2004 by nanna_of_6]

You have a very good point, the press did not show that on any tv news but there it was his car being pelted by angry Americans but yet it was not shown only the happy republicans who wanted to believe their guy won. If their leaving such an important piece of news out, who is doing the fancy editing Moore or the US news journalists who have cheerleaded us into this war?

Originally posted by goose


You have a very good point, the press did not show that on any tv news but there it was his car being pelted by angry Americans but yet it was not shown only the happy republicans who wanted to believe their guy won. If their leaving such an important piece of news out, who is doing the fancy editing Moore or the US news journalists who have cheerleaded us into this war?

Well, I would put my money on the US news journalists to being the ones that did the "fancy" editing. They more than likely never gave it any thought that someone would get their hands on the original segment and show some of the news- media/journalist for what they are, One-Sided. This is one of the biggest reasons why I do not believe any of the "crap" they've been saying (bad crap ) about Moore's F9/11, of course they have to make it look like lies to try and "cover-up" the truths.

Originally posted by nanna_of_6
Until you can come up with something else proving other-wise, I believe the proof I've given is good enough.

Actually, as was discussed above, your source debunked your and Moore's postulation that every Bin Laden is a terrorist. I dont need to provide links that show Osama has been disowned, you already accomplished that.

I saw the movie and while it presented many facts, it was deceptive. There was much speculation as to what these facts mean when tied together.

I've also been watching the Bush administration. They do present some facts, but go out of there way to deceive. They speculate a lot as to what these facts mean when tied together.

The bottom line is that the Bush administration and their deceipt is much more damaging to national security. As far as I'm concerned, Morre can keep making his deceptive 'documentaries' without risking the security of my country. Allowing Bush and friends to continue to run a deceptive administration may very well threaten the security of my country and the lives of my family and friends.

In essence, Bushes lies and deception are much more damaging than Moore's lies and deception. We should hold the leaders of our country to a higher standard than our filmmakers.

Kerry and Edwards may not be much better, but IMO, we need a change. The alternative scares the **** out of me.

Originally posted by PB
I dont need to provide links that show Osama has been disowned, you already accomplished that.

Actually, you should give "links" showing as you stated that the family has nothing to do with Osama, this is what you keep stating as "fact", so prove your fact, just as I proved that certain family members DO keep in touch with him. Futhermore, I did not say the whole Bin Laden family are terrorist, that has never came out of my mouth, the artical states that at least one helped as a terrorist and another may have sent money to Osama, which they are still investigating the Bin Laden family fortune to try and track down where their money goes ( as stated in the artical ). Do not put words into my mouth, which I never said. I said there were family ties,..... period.

Humour me then, which family members were in NYC and flew out the first day that flights resumed? Having not yet spent my hard earned cash on seeing this film, I wouldnt know. We know from your links, nanna, we know which family members have in fact severed ties with Osama. In fact, reading the article, I couldnt find a single family memebr who hasnt. But thats not the issue. Lets find out which members we are interested in, then I will provide evidence of their having disowned Osama.

PB it's up to you to find the information, your the one wanting it and saying that there are no ties,.......... not me, and until you show proof, your words are meaningless.




Just had to edit this post so I could add this into it.
Bush and Cheney are such great guys, huh, well it doesn't look that way from the way this artical reads in this url I'm supplying. Their lies and dirty-dealings are starting to catch-up with them, even if it's only one of them at a time,...... their getting caught

, yes !!!!!!!

www.capitolhillblue.com...

[edit on 8-7-2004 by nanna_of_6]

OK, here is what I have done:

I went to this site, which contains a transcript of the first half of F-911. I read through the section pertaining to the 9/11 attacks, and found all the names of bin Ladens Moore cites. If they are not named, I have not investigated them. I have provided the name, an article about them, and a brief summary of their status

Salem Bin Laden - Deceased 1988. Crashed one-man plane into power wires and crashed. According to the link, "conspiracy theorists suspect he was 'eliminated' by an unknown entity"

Shapfi Bin Laden* - No record of his existance except in F-911, also note he is a "half-brother"

Moore's case is terrible. These are the only 2 bin Ladens cited by name, the rest of the references are to the "Bin Laden" family. Of the two individuals he cites, one is a half-brother who has no record of existance on the internet, and the other is deceased, and, speculation is he was knocked off by someone, logic dictates it would be either the Bin Laden empire or the government. And if he doesnt get along with one or the other group, he obviously is not a link.

To sum up, Moore's only "proof" of a business link is an implied link between Osama bin Laden and his family, which he offers no evidence of. His "evidence" creates prejudices against Saudis and the bin Laden family that are completely unwarranted.

EDIT: * The spelling of this individuals name was not known by the person who transcripted the movie. The had it marked as "shapfi [sp?]". Searches for "shapfi", "shaphi", "shapfie", "shapfie", "shafi", "shafie", "shaffi", and "shaffie" proved fruitless.

[edit on 9-7-2004 by PB]