The Holes of F-911

MICHAEL MOORE'S FAHRENHEIT 9-11
IS IT TRUTH OR FICTION?
(or Maybe the Truth IS stranger than Fiction!)

Was Fahrenheit 9-11 nothing but strung-together anti-Bush Propaganda with nothing but lies, lies and more lies about Bush hiding his relationship with the Bin Laden family?

Well, yes....and no.

Either way it sure will cause people to talk about it, and that is the life blood of any film in this post modern age of the DVD and rental movies where people would just as soon stay at home and not be hassled by tickets and crowds and noisy talkers... !

But what about its actual "contents"? Can you believe any of it?

Moore did string together a great deal of "hard news" information which was deliberately kept OUT of the American "Corporate Sponsored" Press: e.g. the real number of dead and mutilated Iraqi civilians (12,000) especially young children, are actually shown IN COLOUR often with their body parts blown out, we see the anguish on the face of several Iraqi mothers who've lost their entire family in the bombing

(One widow was asking the US press with the camera stuck into her face: Why are you Doing This to Us? What did WE do to YOU Americans?):

But it's Moore conveniently "edited out" the screams of the man next to the poor Iraqi widow who was screaming at the top of his lungs:

"Don't you American people know that ISRAEL is behind all of this? Don't you even know it was called OPERATION SHEKINAH? Shock and Awe, Shock and Awe is that all you can say? You don't even know what the word means!"

So some heavy handed editing of the material was evident in Moore's film: it wasn't "the straight skinny" as some people claim. But Moore did reveal a lot of things that are VERBOTEN in the American Press: e.g. his handling of the pre-Iraqi Prisoner Abuse Scandal which clearly violated the 4th Geneva Convention, the scenes of which left the audience visibly shaken.

Moore also showed the unmistakeable fact that throughout the heavy March-April 2003 bombings, the US deliberately targeted Iraqi civilian locations (e.g. marketplaces, schools, banks, libraries, and other "civilian infrastructures" meant to emotionally paralyse the already "economically sanctioined" Iraqi population and "bomb them back" a few technological centuries), and Moore included a touching human interest in the story involving a "real life" Flint, Michigan "patriotic flag waiving" middle class "burgeois" American mother whose son was killed in action.

Michael Moore is of course also from Flint MI, and so the implication is that this whole Iraqi mess has touched him personally.

Moore's clever (and sometime cruel) splicing-together of interviews pepper the film (at one point, Moore approaches some US congressmen with young adult children to ask them to get their "kids" to sign up for duty) and the looks on the congressmen's faces speaks volumes about the double standard of the ruling elite in this country.

This is the kind of brave "journalism" effect which clearly was one of the highlights of the film.

But, by the same token, Mr Moore left a good bit of the hard facts of the "larger" story OUT which would have produced a counter-visceral reaction (e.g. Moore's choice deliberately NOT to show visuals of the hijacked planes crashing into the World Trade Center in NYC).

Also curiously absent from Moore's film was any reference to Israel or Israelis and especially the FIVE LAUGHING ISRAELI MOSSAD AGENTS who were arrested the morning of 9-11 perched atop the adjacent bldg to the WTC taking pictures of the event as it happened.

Transcripts of their detention and interrogation by the FBI and CIA are now classified TOP SECRET by the US Govt, as are ANY Israeli links to 9-11, are "Classified Top Secret: National Security Issue") and apparently involved the socalled "Babylonian Exile" term "Operation Shekinah"(which Americans have re-named Shock-And-Awe)

But he DID mention the FACT that 11 out of ther 15 hijackers were SAUDIs (and NONE were in fact, Iraqis) and showed a number of times the "doublespeak" (read: lies) of the US government (including Ms "Dr" Cond-o-leeza Rice, the infamous Kissinger Stooge Mr "Bremer", the felon Mr Wolfowitz, Mr "Haliburton" Cheney and Donald "I didn't sell WMDs to Saddam" Rumsfeld) on the pseudo-connection between Saddam Hussein and 9-11, as well as the socalled Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMDs) and the "pending threat" to the US of Iraq and Al-Qaida which they all claimed for half a year ad nauseam were somehow in cahoots with each other....

The lies of the present Administration were exposed again and again, something which the US press has been loathe to point out with any vigour until fairly recently.

Also featured in the film was the Bush Family's disturbing and long-standing Saudi connection (generally avoided in the US press) and the fact that several prominent members of the (Saudi born) Bin Laden family were allowed special transportation to leave the US on 9-13 at a time when US citizens were grounded, and the fact that the Bin Ladens were allowed to leave the country without being interrogated by the CIA or the FBI raises some disturbing questions about Bush and his "PNAC" circle of oilmen.

Moore however "mysteriously" left out Bush' s "Masonic" Skull and Bones Connection at Yale University (both Kerry and Bush are members of that Elite Establishment which boasts a number of corporate and high level political leaders in the US): that would have added a little credibility to his film, but may have tarnished Kerry and the Democratic ticket...it seems Moore wants specifically to reveal ONLY the dirt on proBush Republicans

On balance was actually kind of a refreshing to see another view (knowing that the editing was deliberately provacative in advance), that is, apart from all the blind pro-war, blind pro-Zionist, blind pro-Bush propaganda that Americans have been subjected to since before the invasion of Iraq in the US "news" (or rather, Dis-InfoTainment) over the 5 corporate controlled major news media outlets (e.g. CBS NBC ABC CNN FOX, which means ONLY 5 Corporations control almost ALL of the "News" that passes over the airwaves in the US).

The impression one has while leaving the theatre is: the American people have been duped (again!) and lied-to by an Administration who cares nothing for the Truth, or else feels the average American "can't handle the truth" about our real reasons for being over there in the first place in the 21st century---something rarely seriously discussed in the US press : O-I-L.

Originally posted by PB


Show a link between Osama Bin Laden and Osama's family member.

You asked for "proof" of Osama Bin Laden's link with his family. So here's the "link" .

www.binladenfamily.com...


Now, How are you going to dis-credit this link ? If you want a link to connect Bush-Bin Laden connections, I could get that too,.... but, that wouldn't be fair that I do all the work, just to "prove" it , just so you can read the truth. But here, I'll be nice enough to give you a "link" that has many "links" in it about the Bush/Bin Laden connections. Enjoy!!!

www.freedomdomain.com...




[edit on 3-7-2004 by nanna_of_6]

Later, his opposition to the presence of U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia during the war alienated the royal family and threatened the family business. The family disowned Mr. bin Laden, and he moved to Sudan and then Afghanistan

I have no problem seeing a link between members of the Bin Laden family and Bush. But your own source shows that the link between Bin Laden and his family has been cut.

Sorry, but Moore is one link short of a chain here.

Originally posted by nanna_of_6
You asked for "proof" of Osama Bin Laden's link with his family. So here's the "link"

.

Once again you must not be reading your sources as that is a family history of the BinLadens.

In fact!

In fact all that shows is the family relation, and even points out how Osama has ran out of his inheritence and can not use it to fund terrorism. It even shows he needs outside finance.

Of far greater importance are the enormous sums which have for more than two decades been pumped into the financial network available to terrorists ranging from the World Trade Center bombers in 1993 to the al-Qaeda hijackers who razed it to the ground eight years later. Bin Laden's al-Qaeda organisation became the most formidable group of its kind. But the man who inherited $300m at the age of 10 on the death of his father - as his share of what is today a $36bn family business, the Saudi Binladin Group - is none the less unable to finance this global campaign on his own. In Afghanistan during the 1980s, bin Laden had been footing the bill for Arab fighters in the anti-Soviet war at up to $25,000 a month, according to those who knew him then. By any calculation his personal fortune would have been rapidly depleted, requiring that he have access to new funds. As a result, since those days he has broadened and deepened his sources of finance." (Mark Huband, "Bankrolling bin Laden", Financial Times, November 29, 2001)

Thats got to burn to get pwned by your own source.

Your grasp on the Bin Laden family is very weak with the evidence you provided.

And even worse all of your evidence has the words "possible" plastered over ever heading.

Nothing in your evidence even attempts to go out on a limb and say "This is fact".

What a bunch of speculation.

[edit on 3-7-2004 by Agent47]

www.abovetopsecret.com...
If anyone here has comments on the timing of Moore's additional release dates over Fourth of July weekend, let me know what you think by posting in the above thread!

Originally posted by PB


I have no problem seeing a link between members of the Bin Laden family and Bush. But your own source shows that the link between Bin Laden and his family has been cut

explain this then if the ties were cut between families.





"One of Osama bin Laden's half brothers, Yeslam bin Laden, was reportedly questioned by Swiss authorities last month after terrorists struck the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. According to the Swiss magazine L'Hebdo, federal inspectors were seeking information on the activities of several bin Laden family companies. One of them is Geneva-based Saudi Investment Company, or SICO, a financial clearinghouse for the family's international investments. The other, Avcon Air Charter, owns a fleet of private jets which it leases to business clients. Avcon offered flight training to clients at one of the same Florida pilot schools attended by some of the 19 hijackers, according to the French newspaper Le Monde." (Jonathan Wells, Jack Meyers and Maggie Mulvihill, "Saudi Elite Tied to Money Groups Linked to bin Laden", Boston Herald, October 14, 2001)




Doesn't it seem strange that some of the terrorist used the same flight school that the Bin Ladens own, it is called , Avcon Air Charter ?

Originally posted by Agent47




Your grasp on the Bin Laden family is very weak with the evidence you provided.



[edit on 3-7-2004 by Agent47]

Thats really funny, Agent47 . If I'm reading my sources incorrectly than I must be reading this wrong also, according to you.





"There is proof that a few rogue members are still in contact with Osama and may hold dangerously similar political beliefs. The lingering fear is whether or not this means Osama still has some sort of financial link to the family or even, through them, access to the corridors of power in Saudi Arabia and beyond." (Neil MacKay, "Family Ties; The Bin Ladens", The Sunday Herald, October 7, 2001)

"There are appearances of impropriety. No question about it." says Vince Cannistraro, former counterterrorism chief at the CIA (Interview with JohnDoe, September 2001)

"This isn't a family with just one aberrant son. If you look below the surface, Osama is not the only member of the family with links to terrorism. One of Osama's brothers was involved in an attack in Saudi Arabia, another helped Osama flee the country when he was under effective house arrest, and a brother-in-law has been linked by the CIA to the attack last year on the USS Cole in Yemen by Osama's terror group, al-Qaeda ("the base").�" (Neil MacKay, "Family Ties; The Bin Ladens", The Sunday Herald, October 7, 2001)


It says here that there is "proof" that there is ties from a brother, and brother-in-law to Osama, the CIA even says so.

So now what, Agent 47, are you going to say that the above paragraphs taken from the url that I gave is lies too ?

Originally posted by nanna_of_6
So now what, Agent 47, are you going to say that the above paragraphs taken from the url that I gave is lies too ?

No but I didnt use that as evidence did I?

I was only pointing out how the bulk of your evidence has the word speculation plastered all over it, and some portions of your evidence directly contradict your thoughts.

Notice I didnt try and use any of your evidence as evidence for something else, I was simply questioning the truth and accuracy of the material.

Your links say many contradiciting things that both hurt and help your point of view.

Originally posted by Agent47

I was only pointing out how the bulk of your evidence has the word speculation plastered all over it, and some portions of your evidence directly contradict your thoughts.

First, I have always said there were connections between the Bush's and Ben Laden families,................ I proved that

Second, I have always said that the Bin Laden's still keep in touch with Osama,.............. I gave proof of that, also

So, what I'd like to know is, how can you give asumption to my thoughts ? I think about a lot of things and have many opionions about different things. Can you read minds ? I didn't think so.

Ummm...three brothers keep in contact with him out of how many? I believe he has somewhere around 46 brothers and sisters...that's quite a bit.

However, I believe that even more of his family keeps in contact with him...even after 9-11. I just gotta go back to my house to get the refrence material. If I remember correctly, after 9-11, Osama got hitched and had many members of his family in attendence. Now, if there are "cut ties" and he's the "black sheep", why would his family go...especially when he is a man being hunted by the US military. But, then again it's all speculation of whether his family has anything to do with terrorism. And since there are no apparent links to that, it is moot...you can't condemn a family for the actions of one or two or three. (See Prescott Bush, Nazi sympathizer)

Originally posted by SupaFly
You do have to look at this from both angles. Everyone has their opinions. This is a propaganda film that should be taken with a grain of salt. However, some good points were made between the connections of the Bush family, saudis, and bin ladens. Some of it has to make you think.

this remains the most intelligent evaluation of f911 that i have heard so far. bravo

Originally posted by nanna_of_6
"One of Osama bin Laden's half brothers, Yeslam bin Laden, was reportedly questioned by Swiss authorities last month after terrorists struck the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. According to the Swiss magazine L'Hebdo, federal inspectors were seeking information on the activities of several bin Laden family companies. One of them is Geneva-based Saudi Investment Company, or SICO, a financial clearinghouse for the family's international investments.

In other words, the police's first instinct was to question family members. I could have got that much from an episode of Law and Order. Also notice that the article says he was questioned, not that anything came of it. In any investigation, countless witnesses are interviewed. Only a portion provide useful testimony.

The other, Avcon Air Charter, owns a fleet of private jets which it leases to business clients. Avcon offered flight training to clients at one of the same Florida pilot schools attended by some of the 19 hijackers, according to the French newspaper Le Monde." (Jonathan Wells, Jack Meyers and Maggie Mulvihill, "Saudi Elite Tied to Money Groups Linked to bin Laden", Boston Herald, October 14, 2001)

In other words, a flight school offered training to potential clients. Nowhere does it say that the people who were offered training were the terrorist hijackers. It only says that some students at that school were offered training. If a terrorist goes to Harvard, and Yale offers different Harvard students a spot, does that make Yale part of a terrorist organisation?

Sorry bud, but youve got nothing. You have not only shown sources that contradict themselves, but now you have shown a source that is essentially slandering 50 of the 51 Bin Laded children who are not terrorists.

Michael Moore is hurting America by telling half truths. Anyone can take facts and distort them in ways to support their side.

VOTE BUSH in '04

Think of America if Michael Moore was President. We might as well be in the middle east.

If Kerry is elected this country will be in bad shape.

Go Elephants!!

Originally posted by NumberI

Think of America if Michael Moore was President. We might as well be in the middle east.

Got something against the Middle East NumberI.

Are you wearing blinkers or a blindfold, or maybe a pointy white hood.

You're what's wrong with the US, thank humanity you're all not like this...!!

Originally posted by Koka
Are you wearing blinkers or a blindfold, or maybe a pointy white hood.

You're what's wrong with the US, thank humanity you're all not like this...!!

And your whats wrong with foreigners, always quick to label the conservative American a racist.

See the street runs two ways.

The man might be passionate in his beliefs, and if members of this board can try and portray bush as hitler then how is that different from his choice to draw parallels between Kerry and the Middle East.

Just my two cents.

Originally posted by mr_brewski
When it comes to discovering the truth about his films it isn't about right or left it should be about the thruth. That is a subject I am afraid MM doesn't have a clue about.

Exactly. THis is how I felt about Bowling for COlumbine and most of Moore's work. To hell with partisanship or personal ideals. If it is not truthful, and it agrees with your ideology, then DONT SUPPORT IT BECAUSE IT DEGRADES YOUR OWN IDEOLOGY.

However, as one who hates partisanism and does not subscribe solely to one ideology, I must say that I find fahrenheit 9/11 to be overall truthful, especially where it counts.

I just saw the film and although there are parts which may be factual, there is a lot taken out of context. This is the first I noticed, that Saudi Arabia "owns" 6% of USA. This is blatantly taken out of context. First, they don't own the US, they have invested in American companies. However, every other country on earth invests in American companies. Do you know how much China has invested in America?

Bill Clinton actually sold American land to China back in 1998. There was a lot of back room dealings between China and Clinton also Saudi Arabia and Clinton.

Second, the film projects the impression that all Saudi Arabians are terrorists and that doing business with any Saudi is like doing business with a terrorist.

Thirdly, Osama was disowned by his family and whatever other business done with a Bin Laden shouldn't be perceived to be doing business with Osama himself. The US has a pretty good relationship with Kind Hussein of Jordan who happens to be Saddam's cousin, but the public doesn't perceive that we are working with a terrorist because we know King Hussein to have disowned Saddam as a family member and has publicly rebuked him.

I hope that clears up that segment of the movie.

Originally posted by OXmanK
Ummm...three brothers keep in contact with him out of how many? I believe he has somewhere around 46 brothers and sisters...that's quite a bit.

Dude, I was only asked to provide a link between Bin Laden and family, even if it was only one (1) brother, brother-in-law, or sister, etc., it wouldn't matter, really, because family is family, no matter how mad they may get at the member at the time.

Hey and you know what else? Everyone from Saudi Arabia is a terrorist. And if your brother kills someone, by law youre a murderer too. Theres even a law being pushed through by that evil enigma Bush. From now on, if anyone in your family gets a parking ticket, you all get tickets sent to you too. Because obviously evil is genetic.

Sorry but in a family of 50, and a link that isnt even really a link to a family member that ISNT one of the people convicted of dealing with Bush is nothing. Too bad Moore isnt running for president, he would have all the lemming votes.

Originally posted by donguillermo
You people should be ashamed to participate in a web forum whose slogan is "Deny Ignorance."

You're funny! You don't deny it, you EMBRACE it!