ENOUGH! Manners in the Aliens/UFO Forum and those who habitually deride, insult, and just LOVE being

Originally posted by Adept_Zero
So, we have to dance around the emotions of believers because they can't handle criticism over the internet very well? Why is it so easy to offend this particular group of people, while the skeptics are essentially forced to take attacks in stride?

I think it's as simple as respect for another's opinion is a two-way street. And that there's nothing wrong with arguments as long as it's done in a civil manner with proper decorum. Ad-hominem attacks can be seen on a daily basis, and they're nothing but destructive for the community.

So it seems as though this thread has veered off into the familiar skeptics vs believers format.

Shame really, because the manners and civility round these parts has been a hot topic for a while now and we seem no closer to finding the common ground.

Now, before I continue I would like to state that I myself have been guilty of stepping over the line here and there with my manners, what needs to be said though, is that most of my outbursts come after I am attacked.

That is neither here nor there and to be clear I'm not using it as an excuse, I've been reminded of what needs to be done when someone is rude to me or others and that is alert them.

Problem is, I act and react in ATS (and anywhere else I post) as I would in real life, if you're gonna be an arse to me, you'll get it right back.

tit for tat and all that.

So, can I guarantee to be polite and civil all of the time?

Nope, not gonna happen, because after all I am human and UFOlogy is somewhat of a passion to me despite what some (many) may think.

Fact is, the youtube UFO phenomenon has unapologetically ruined UFOlogy in so many ways, I mean she was a cruel mistress before, but now it's bloody ridiculous!

No wonder people get angry and upset by it.

So, if this thread is aimed at me or not ( I did call someone a troll yesterday!), I will endeavor that I will do my best to keep the peace.

reply to post by Droogie


If that's what this is about, and this is the change that enforces mutual respect, then I am all for it.

Let's hope it succeeds in that case.

reply to post by semperfortis

The old.. "Well he did it, so I will too" stuff is NOT going to fly. It has no place on an adult forum...Especially ATS

I agree with you 100% on everything you said. I also think the above statement alludes to part of the problem....not everyone on this forum is an adult. This has been discussed before, since age is not a proper indication of good manners and decorum, but I'd venture to say that much of the ill behavior I've witnessed from the sidelines *appears* to have grammar and language associated with middle and high school students. The "adults" returning the rude banter should know better. I think if everyone knew the age of the person they were speaking with, things might take a different turn for the better in most cases...most adults would be more inclined to act like adults, and the youngsters would be protected or chastised, if needed. Would it be so bad to have an age indicator in the profile? I don't feel it would take away from the anonymity aspect, but that's just my humble opinion. Of course, there would be no way to verify someone's age, but most will be honest. Those that aren't will out themselves eventually.

This is my request.

Originally posted by SeventhSeal
I'm sick of the horrid UFO videos when they're just of lights. I'm sick of videos being debunked and members continue posting thinking they're real. I'm sick of Hoax videos not being shut down by mods and somehow making it front page making this site look looney.

How about this members: Post credible videos and not just some lights in the sky.

Maybe then there won't be as many "rude" comments on amateur videos of ...LIGHTS.

1- Ever heard of no smoke without fire?
It's like saying we shouldn't pay attention to loud bang of an explosion because it is just sound?
Lights always come from a source, if this source is flying and unidentifed then it is a UFO and belong in that forum.

2-If you feel a video is a hoax, you can contact a moderator with proof of it being a hoax and I am sure they will act upon it. Moderators are intelligent persons and they can make a valid judgement on what is a Confirmed hoax. And I am sure they read the topics on the front page too.
And FYI, a proof is not gut feeling or something someone can replicate with cgi, or because the UFO looks like something you think you recognize.
I like to think objectively. Imagine we are pygmees who never heard of modern civilization. We see a plane high in the sky, there will be people claiming it is a bird because it vaguely looks like one and there are the open minded ones who will see it as 'UFO' because it doesnt behave like a bird. Just like RC planes just don't spend hours in the air with bright lights on.
Get my point? Think hard before you claim it is not a UFO. Study EVERY aspect of a sighting and make a valid judgement?

3- you feel sick of threads with lights and hoaxes?
Is someone holding you at gun point to read and reply to them?
Are you paid to spread disinfo on every UFO thread and can't keep up?
If you are sick of seeing threads you don't like on the frontpage, I suggest you contact the site owners and make a generous offer to buy ATS and then you can have whatever you like on your front page

. Until then, ATS is for all of us willing to discuss and debate in a civil manner.

After my experience in the El Paso lights thread, which by the way is prime example of what Springer is talking about, I have felt very apprehensive about sharing on this site, anything having to do with UFO's let alone my personal experiences. I grew up being bullied and laughed at for being "weird" as it is. I don't want to come to a forum that's chock full of more of the same. It's really sad because this is a great place, but you can't really share unless you're willing to get trolled.

In the past week I came across two incredible UFO videos. I thought about sharing them on ATS for opinions, but then I remembered the way some folks on the El Paso thread acted and decided against it.

The personal attacks and insults are taking place on all forums that I've encountered by browsing. Continual name calling and tactics to bring down threads, by attacking the OP from every angle possible. Over in the "false flag, 3 days" thread, we have people crying for the OP to be banned for pete's sake, and for all flags to be removed, or the thread to be shut down. Shouldn't the moderators step in and tell them that THEY will decide what thread is shut down? I'm confused...

I don't understand why the trolls aren't flat out banned.

Springer, I think you have wasted enough time asking the entirety of ATS to "behave and be civil". It seems that many are either in denial about their bad behavior here, or, simply don't feel they should follow your rules. Either way, maybe bannings left and right will bring about the behavior you seek. Otherwise, I see alot more threads pleading for good behavior without any result, in your future.

Thanks.

well said springer i've been thinking the same thing the last week or so and its not just in the UFO threads. now about this back slapping mental masturbation......


have a great day
bigkevNZ

Originally posted by Springer
reply to post by IgnoreTheFacts

 

A thread like you describe deserves you replying and keeping in the spotlight, WHY?

Seriously...

Springer...

I agree. The only problem is I care about this subject deeply. My absence from such threads will do little to keep it going on for pages upon pages of utter nonsense. If someone really cares about the subject, and wants it to taken seriously by folks other than the UFO crowd, they would endeavor to interject their thoughts and opinions on such threads.

Springer, what you are in danger of doing is turning this place into a GLP clone by chasing out anyone that doesn't swallow BS as easily as others do.

I understand the need for civility, but I think there is a major amount of folks around here that are confusing civility with denying ignorance. You know as well as I do, there are tons of posters on your forum using it to makes asses out of folks like you and me. Now, it is hard for those of us with a head on our shoulders to answer this issue without getting shat upon by the very people that WILL make this board a laughable joke.

This is the internet, the wild west. I admire your efforts to maintain civil playing field. But I think there are some thin skinned folks who believe these lights in the sky are reptilian ambassadors form the planet zorg which are hitting the alert button so often it compelled you to act. More often than not, I imagine that the problems are not related to civility, but with difference of opinion.

You may be playing into their hands, maybe not...who knows. But in the future, when there are less and less folks that bother to respond to some of these topics, you will be left with pages of ridiculous nonsense that will make this place look foolish....and eventually ATS could end up the butt of many GLP jokes.

Just mentioning to someone around here that you don't think their blurry youtube video shows aliens from planet dracgon results in a diatribe of "close minded, debunker" retorts. You can even spell out why it is fake, how it was done and all that, but because no one can debunk something 100%, we have to be dealt with I guess.

I would hope that thread like this don't chase certain folks to other boards, as that does no good. It doesn't do anybody any good to have different forums on separate sites where skeptics live on one site and believers flourish on another. Nothing will get done that way.

This place is in the most danger that it ever has been when it comes to contributing negatively to the signal-to-noise ratio.

Another thing I think people around here forget is the power of the written word. It often carries a note of emotion that can't be properly understood. If you imagined all of these threads in a bar or party setting, and imagine these things being discussed in person, you would see that the MAJORITY of these comments would not be taken the way they are taken at all. The internet is a blessing and a curse.


That being said, civility is what the one side demands, and we will effort to deliver.

Really, again, wow, what is it with the attitude of people who can't either be polite or just move on to a new topic when they've posted their view in a thread, that's all that is being asked yet here we are again.

Is this their new arguing game?

If it is you can't possibly win in this game as all that is being asked of you is to be polite arguing against such a request just makes you look churlish, whoever you are from whatever side of the "fence".

People don't come here to read pithy put downs or snide replies that skirt the limits of the t&c's, they come to read the likes of Zorgon, Protoplasmictraveler, Phage, Airspoon et al.

Enough really is enough, over the course of these few threads Springer has been forced to start we have been given testimony to the fact that what we feared was indeed happening potential posters with the desire to start a thread were declining to do so because they didn't want to experience the tide of hate and scorn they'd face if they were on shaky ground, not even proven wrong just on shaky ground.

Other people have stated that they don't go to threads that they may be interested in because they dislike the abusive discourteous atmosphere promoted by this aggressive attitude, the pseudoskeptics, not the skeptics, have gone from being necessary cleaners of bunkum to being an unsightly splodge on the site.

Sad that I have to add this at the end to avoid confusion, I think skeptics are great, they do a great service and they save a great deal of my time with their facts and knowledge, these requests are aimed at some not all skeptics, the requests are indeed made by skeptics, why is being nice so hard, is bullying so ingrained in our society that the bullies think they're normal?

reply to post by Springer


Thank you for this much needed reminder. Skeptic have open minds. Some of these folks are not skeptics but convinced due to prior conditioning or honoring known science to a fault. Either way they are not honestly skeptical but certain of their position. "Impossible" they say. This itself is preposterous since we are bound to be facing unknown factors, theories, mechanics and universal laws not even discovered yet.

to be honest I have NEVER believed one of those You Tube vidoes anyway, even the "NASA" footage (which clearly shows ice particles, camera glitches, etc etc etc)

If these videos are real do you really think the PTB will allow you to view them in the public domain ??

me thinks not

Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts
reply to post by IgnoreTheFacts

 

A thread like you describe deserves you replying and keeping in the spotlight, WHY?

Seriously...

Springer...

Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts
Another thing I think people around here forget is the power of the written word. It often carries a note of emotion that can't be properly understood. If you imagined all of these threads in a bar or party setting, and imagine these things being discussed in person, you would see that the MAJORITY of these comments would not be taken the way they are taken at all.

Here's you:

Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts
I don't know what is worse. The fact that some idiot makes a video like this, or the fact that folks here deem it worthy of discussion. 5 pages, really?

Here's you again:

Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts
I agree. Folks using nightshot seem to have a built in audience of people that will pretty much be astounded over the mundane.

Anyone who visits this thread will be deducted 5 IQ points.

And again:

Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts

The fact that you have titled this thread "most genuine UFO footage i have ever seen" indicates that you have not seen much ufo footage ever, or you just wanted to trick a bunch of folks into your thread to make yourself feel important.

I simply can’t believe that you honestly think this is the "most genuine UFO footage" you have ever seen, no way, no how. So that leaves you in the "please give me attention" category.....

Either way, there is nothing to this footage, nothing. Struggling to hold onto what would be the LEAST likely conclusion to this is an exercise in ignorance.

And again:

Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts
Why bother arguing over this totally absurd and useless video anyway? It was shot by someone who has a post history of seeing UFO's in his mash potatoes and what not.

And again:

Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts
reply to post by keyseeker

 

Are you for real or are you here pulling out collective legs? I know having an overactive imagination can be fun, but after a while it starts to make you look bad.

Imaging artifacts are not "ufos", "space shuttles" or anything other than imaging artifacts. Your inability to grasp that easy to understand concept in a rush to believe in the least likely explanation is called "ignorance".

*I posit that anyone who looks through your posts will see that you use the guise of skepticism to abuse people over the internet.

The selection of your quotes are from just a few choice postings of yours from within the last three week period.

You are needlessly abusive.

This thread is another reminder that traffic and page ranking appear to be more important than denying ignorance.

You Encourage new, young, or critical thinking challenged members and when they degrade the site's reputation, you bash on the mature long standing members who are trying desperately to defend the quality of content on here. I think you should aim to be the best quality conspiracy site with the best research and content, rather than the largest site with a much lower standard of quality control and content. New members of any community have to learn to adapt to the culture and standards of that community. You appear to be forcing the opposite. Those that have earned their ATS stripes, rather than being rewarded are being singled out repeatedly whereas the true believers to whom sceptic and debunk are dirty words get to carry on their insults unabashed.

I'm a believer, but unlike most believers on ATS what matters to me above all is the truth even if that shatters any fantasies I may have been entertaining. In the last month I have made a particular point of trying to make myself aware of the 'civility' issue and it appears to me that it is the believers who are behaving badly. They are the ones that make the majority of ill-mannered posts and nearly always begin the mud slinging. They are the ones who turn their opinions into categorical fact. They are the ones who throw insults at the debunkers and sceptics when their erroneous "OMG can't debunk this UFO" mentality is shot down with logic, commonsense, research and evidence.

Just a few days ago I read a post by someone stating without humor or sarcasm that they hated sceptics and debunkers because they ruin every thread with their solutions, proof and evidence. This member was angry that anybody successfully debunks a thread because it ruins their fantasising about first contact and disclosure. With each new member that has this viewpoint the ATS brand is diluted and truth obfuscated.

reply to post by IgnoreTheFacts

Springer, what you are in danger of doing is turning this place into a GLP clone by chasing out anyone that doesn't swallow BS as easily as others do.

Curious how asking for civility among posters regardless of their position, is a fault?

It certainly "clones" no other website by virtue of this reasonable request, which reasonable people should have no trouble with. And since many websites catering to this subject matter do not monitor posters and permit gratuitous abuse, the "civility and decorum" reminder makes ATS unique.

I did that with the prophet Yuewah, that has his guys let off laterns, but he said he can summen ufo's, I didn't know over 2 years ago that a-hole had been here and been debunked by the ATS guys and that he was offered to come out and confirm himself with some of the members here... Some of us are new and getting the hang of this, I think all we can do is try better every day at understanding how to conduct talk, explain ourselves better, and listenening to someone elses side...

reply to post by Springer


Come on OP, this site has gotten pretty huge, and theres bound to be instant naysayers/disbelievers/etc.

Not our fault they think our tiny spec in this huge (Huge is actually quite an understatement) galaxy etc, but that they think we are alone and havn't had contact with species from other planets.

Yes I am quite sure we have, and quite certain they will contact the authority/beings in charge, to make sure they are not over stepping their grounds. A advanced race that could fly here, would not care for taking over the planet... I mean instead they would observe us from afar, attempt to infiltrate our populace in order to get a point of view/understanding of how we 'tick'.

There will be naysayers, stating and sprouting their disbelief that such a thing is happening, and they want proof, screenshots or video footage... However even the best quality video of 'proof' will be 'debunked' and once the 'debunkers state so' its a no go area from then on. Maybe they benefit from 'debunking' videos, or themselves want absolute proof...

Unfortunatly the only absolute proof it seems is when big flying UFO's come into our skies and non-humans exit out of their doors/lifts etc.

reply to post by Aoxoa


Man on the web is a microcosm of man on earth.
Sad. Left to our own devices it is a melee.
More than a little embarassing.
And we say we don't need government!

reply to post by Aoxoa


This thread isn't about that... (proof or no proof, are we alone? etc...)

This thread is about members being polite to each other, regardless of the topic. It's about not being trolls, not insulting each other; not verbally abusing each other.

Plain and simple.

reply to post by Exuberant1


Yup, you got me. Take comments I made out of threads without showing ANY CONTEXT regarding the actual thread and you look like you are the champion of the downtrodden and the weak. How strong you must feel! If you would like, I can gather up quotes from yourself where I can make you look like a total tool as well, would you like me to do that? Only a weak minded individual would resort to such things, and an even weaker minded individual would swallow it. I guess I know who you are catering to now, lol.

Let me get this straight (and this is something you are FAR guilty of too, so don’t bother) if I say something like “I don’t understand how legions of folks can even entertain such ridiculous evidence” and someone like you says “I don’t see how closed minded, ignorant folks can’t open their eyes to such obvious sings, they are here!!!!”….how are those two statements different? I’ll tell you, one of those statements doesn’t agree with your particular faith, so you defend it as anyone of faith rabidly defends their religion. That, plus many will hit the alert button because their believes are being challenged and thus their feelings are being hurt, so those of us with a level head end up looking like government enemies….further feeding the very thing that makes us all like fools. But don’t let the bigger picture stop you, keep doing what you’re doing and we will see that comes of it in the coming years.

Enjoy your time here, when you guys are sitting here talking amongst each other, not questioning each other’s stories and inability to properly view folks videos (etc)....the rest of us will check in here over the next 10-15 years to see if your ignorance has even made a dent in the subject or if you have contributed to the signal-to-noise-ratio so greatly that this subject is forever muddled in some internet forum that no one will bother to take seriously.

reply to post by Exuberant1


Real evidence then

A type of alien dna that is not comprised of 4 Base Pairs, would be a good start.

A Alien Device with Narly Powers like Stargate

An Alien Postcard to Mom, with Wish you were here on it

A Raygun


Why must all Alien Spaceships look like cups and saucers ?
To cut down on the wind resistace travelling through space ?
To make them more aerodynamic travelling through an Atmosphere, why
would you need to if they are obviously using Anti-Gravity?
And if You didn't want to seen, why would you enter the Atmosphere at all,
especially if your not even going to drop in for some grits and crawdads.
.