9/11 Planes... my theories

reply to post by tortillawraps


Honestly...proudly claiming you're a graduate in aerospace engineering, and working on your Master's in same field? But, you really don't understand (or didn't fully read the report) that detailed the circumstances of Helios 522???

Tell that to the pilots and crew of Helios 522. 'Merely' don their masks...

YES!! Proficient pilots, who aren't friggin' idiots (as those guys appear to have been...or else, the CAPTAIN was a friggin' idiot, and the First Officer was cowed by him) ...pilots who are skilled, not marginally capable, would have recognized the Cabin Altitude warning sound, and NOT have mistaken it for the Takeoff Config Warning!!!

The Takeoff Config Warning will ONLY work when you are ON THE GROUND! Not in flight. Jeeze a quick glance up at the pressurization panel!! There's a "cabin altimeter" gauge, labeled with a PSID scale as well. There is a Cabin Rate of Climb gauge too. AND, they should have felt it in their EARS, too!! Climbing at +2,000 fpm, versus the normal AUTO pressurization rate of about 500 fpm.

Here is an image of a Boeing 737 overhead panel. The pressurization controls are on the lower right (forward right, when yo are sitting in your seat, looking up at it).

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/cd9230ec34bf.jpg[/atsimg]

AND, yes "merely" don their masks!! Do you know what "quick-donning mask" means?

Our masks can be pulled from stowage (or, older style, from the hooked strap near the ceiling) and with ONE hand, swooped on over the head, and in place, in about ONE second. Te B-737-300 had the newer kind, looks like this when out of its stowage box:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/bf91293b8d94.gif[/atsimg]

See those red tabs? You squeeze them, thumb and fingers, the head harness inflates. Whip it over your head, place the cup over your nose and mouth, and release. The elastic straps deflate, and pull the mask tight to your face. (Think the "face-hugger" from the "Alien" movies).

I found a video a guy made...explains it perfectly, just watch:



These idiots didn't do that! It gets worse (this is why I CAN call them idiots, even if they are dead...I have no respect for stupidity, when it involves this sort of unavoidable accident, and innocent death).

Minutes after take-off the cabin altitude horn activated as a result of pressurization. It was, however, misidentified by the crew as a take-off configuration warning, which signals that the aircraft is not ready for take-off, and can only sound on the ground. The horn can be silenced by the crew with a switch on the overhead panel.

Above 14,000 ft (4,267 m) cabin altitude, the oxygen masks in the cabin automatically deployed. An Oxy ON warning light on the overhead panel in the cabin illuminates when this happens. At this point, the crew contacted the ground engineers. Minutes later a master caution warning light activated, indicating an abnormal situation in a system. This was misinterpreted by the crew as indicating that systems were overheating.

en.wikipedia.org...

The "Cabin Altitude" aural warning sounds first, above 10,000 cabin altitude. The masks are delayed, to not trigger until above about 14,000 feet, to prevent an an unnecessary complication, and cabin panic...assumes that any minor cabin excursion above 10,000 feet will be handled appropriately by the pilots. (Which those dolts failed to do).


Really.....I could go on and on and on, describing why your thread premise,your "theories" are totally and completely off the mark. This might be why many engineers in this field, without ANY practical experience, tend to over-think these things, from a perspective of total ignorance of reality; all they know is the math and science of engineering, NOT the way things are in the real world. They usually aren't pilots. BUT, they aren't stupid, so they CAN learn, if they just apply themselves. Go study the airplane systems, on the Boeings....the 737-300 (for Helios 522) and then the Boeing 757/767. Shouldn't take you more than a few months' time.

reply to post by weedwhacker


I guess the Helios crew also forgot to check the oxy cutoff switch (located behind the fo's seat on the classics), so when they needed oxygen there were none.

That's probably the reason why the capt. was out of his seat, to open it, or to grab a couple of walkaround bottles.

reply to post by Human_Alien


How can you post such stuff without making the simplest, most basic, enquiries ?

" Where are all the families to these victims " ? , you say, " Funny only a handful came forward making the rounds on TV " you say.

Did it never occur to you to consider the claims being made to the 9/11 compensation fund ? Not every bereaved person wants to go on tv. Here is an article from which you will see that up to Dec 2003 there had been 2823 claims !

articles.cnn.com...:US

reply to post by Ivar_Karlsen


Oh, I see...I know what you're saying. I haven't read up deeply, yet, on Helios. Again, this perfectly illustrates poor pre-flight discipline, then, as well as bumbling ineptness once airborne, and in that situation.

As (I presume, since I have followed his postings, and know that HE knows what he's talking about) Ivar knows, I will explain it anyway. There is a knob to turn "OFF" the O2 flow to the flight deck, behind the F/O's seat, outboard. This usually is not done routinely, at MY airline anyway, unless the airplane will be out of service for an extended time....to prevent any minor leakage, and waste of O2.

It is part of our "receiving aircraft" checklist...the O2 knob. The F/O's duty (...but, as always, ultimately the Captain's responsibility. That's how it works, you have to rely and trust...guardedly, but like a mentor at times, depending on the experience level). A further double-check occurs when you test the masks, in their stowage compartments, before flight. A proper check of operation involves pushing and holding the "test" button for several seconds, AND looking at the O2 pressure gauge, overhead panel, at same time. Because, IF the O2 valve knob is "OFF", there will be a little bit of trapped O2 pressure in the lines to the masks....but, the O2 pressure gauge reads downstream from that valve....so, if the valve is closed, the pressure will drop rapidly during the mask test.

In any case, knowing they had difficulty with the 02, the immediate response is to declare an emergency, and DESCEND, with or without ATC approval. Hypoxia isn't a problem at 10,000 for most people. Not even 14,000, unless you linger there for a while, and then exert yourself....and if you're a smoker, etc.

Helios 522, while tragic, has nothing in common with this nonsense "theory", nor would the professional pilots of American and United airlines have made such amateurish mistakes regarding cabin altitude problem recognition, and reaction...and the O2 dilemma, as well....


Here's another video, guy demonstrating removal from stowage, slowly putting it on (for demo purposes). Note, at the end, he's goofing around...but, in the simulator we try to re-create real life whenever possible (pain int eh butt) and have to communicate, like that on the inter-phone, using the mask mic, to read the checklists for the emergency descent procedure, when we do those drills. Most (our) Boeing audio panels don't have a "hot" mic position, so we push-to-talk, toggling the PTT switch differently than when transmitting to ATC on VHF. ("down" position for ATC, "up" for inter-cockpit and pit to cabin).

The sound quality? Just as bad. AND, if you keep holding the PTT switch down, as you breathe in between speaking, then that annoying sound is distracting to everyone. Practice selectively keying the intercom makes it more tolerable, and less annoying.

reply to post by Alfie1


According to your link 97% of the World trade center families joined the fund.
From the Shanksville, only 12 of the 33 families or 40 if you include the crew.
From the Pentagon there were 55 who never applied.
There was 53 passengers. 59 if you count the crew.
Does seem strange to me.

Originally posted by impressme
reply to post by pteridine

 

You are as confused as ever, Princess Leia. I never use Star Wars references. That was Weed's post. Check with Jar-Jar at PFT to get help.

weedwhacker, calling me a Princess doesn’t hide the fact that both of you are the same person, and has nothing to do with the OP.

Your paranoia is showing. Weed is a pilot. I am a chemist. I couldn't make any of his posts as I have only been a passenger on civilian and military aircraft.

Nice link alf.....

confirms everything I am saying....

Did you read the link you posted to dispute what i said previously....??

haha, dont think so......

Only 30% of the Shanksville "victims" applied for 1.8million $$$ each......how very strange!!

reply to post by Alfie1



Ya know what? You're right. In fact you (9-11 trusters) are all correct.

There was nothing to 9-11-01.

Simply put: three planes were able to penetrate two of the most secured cities in the world by 15 hijackers (7 of which are still alive) and the other plane "let's roll" met it's fate by 3 American heroes who thankfully killed the other 4 plastic-knife wielding Arab-hijackers.

Buildings fell.
Planes disintegrated.
Black boxes un-recovered and the man in charge of this atrocious crime; Bush....er, I mean bin Laden, has been duly-punished!
So.....everything is (and was) fine.

Why do some people look for flaws that day? I guess they're just lookin' for problems.

Let's dance.

Originally posted by Human_Alien
reply to post by Alfie1

 

Ya know what? You're right. In fact you (9-11 trusters) are all correct.

There was nothing to 9-11-01.

Simply put: three planes were able to penetrate two of the most secured cities in the world by 15 hijackers (7 of which are still alive) and the other plane "let's roll" met it's fate by 3 American heroes who thankfully killed the other 4 plastic-knife wielding Arab-hijackers.

Buildings fell.
Planes disintegrated.
Black boxes un-recovered and the man in charge of this atrocious crime; Bush....er, I mean bin Laden, has been duly-punished!
So.....everything is (and was) fine.

Why do some people look for flaws that day? I guess they're just lookin' for problems.

Let's dance.

Why are you claiming that '7' hi-jackers are still alive? See my post on the following page.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Every time I see claims such as yours the numbers of 'living' hi-jackers increases. Why? Al Q have released the names of their 19 'martyrs' some of whom made martyrdom tapes. None of the 19, either from the list or from Al Qs martyrdom releases, have been found alive.

TJ

reply to post by Human_Alien

Buildings fell.
Planes disintegrated.
Black boxes un-recovered and the man in charge of this atrocious crime; Bush....er, I mean bin Laden, has been duly-punished!
So.....everything is (and was) fine.

Why do some people look for flaws that day? I guess they're just lookin' for problems.

I totally agree with yeah. It has got to the point now, that many of the OS defenders have resorted to making up fallacies in trying to defend the OS lies.

You would think asking questions about 911 was an American thing. Apparently not. It appears the propaganda media has done its job well.
I think it is becoming obvious that being patriotic is better than the truth, to some the truth doesn’t matter, and this is how treasonous corrupt governments can get away with murder and doing false flag operations. The powers that be have all the money and influence to fool the world population and believe me when I say this, these people depend on the patriotic Americans to help defend them, because that is their government that we are talking about, and in most of their minds their government can do no harm, or lie to them.
I see this demonstrated mostly on the 911 threads. Every time I bring up the facts with credible sources to back my claims that Bin Laden was working for the CIA right up to 911, I always will see the OS defenders kick in overdrive and move the goal posts, this alone punches a big hole in the OS and some of these posters cannot handle it.

The OP mention that people on these planes may have been gas, one has to ask, is this possible? Of courses it is possible, it may not have happened that way or perhaps it did we really don’t know. The government covered up the greatest crime and told the American people a pack of lies, which are being uncovered little by little each year, by science, and inside government information.

But I hear you, and I support your opinion and you are correct.

Let's try and get some more perspective on this whole switched airplanes/remote control theory via Stewart Airport (Newburgh, NY). Half way down is an article which states that Top Gun Turban, Mohamed Atta, considered nuclear power facilities as targets for the 9/11 attacks. Indian Point Nuclear Power Plant, located 35 miles north of Manhattan, and approximately 25-30 miles south of Stewart Airport is pretty much directly en route from Newburgh to Lower Manhattan.

Why did Top Turban Atta not pull the trigger and sacrifice one of the four planes into Indian Point? Did he not fly right over or very close to the Indian Point nuclear reactors on his way to the Towers? Kind of tough to miss them when you're flying right over them.

From what we're being made to think, Atta was an ace who would have given the Red Baron a run for his money. Slamming into Indian Point would have been a piece of cake for him. Why would Atta risk continuing for another 35 miles, where you would have to avoid NORAD, if they had been properly doing their job that day.

The article below states the plan to strike nuclear facilities was scrapped because the terrerrists thought "it might get out of hand". Now, if this lame excuse does not win an award for obscurity, nothing does. It's nice too see that even ruthless terrerrists have a sense of morality.

www.energybulletin.net...

In any event, getting back to the point of this thread, in the planning for 9/11, a discussion of Remote Controlled Aircraft must have been OFF THE TABLE because of high security venues such as the Indian Point Nuclear facility. Can you imagine either the remote control or the aircraft malfunctioning, or worse, the signal being hacked/intercepted for the purpose of redirecting the planes into a let all hell break loose target such as Indian Point?

The 9/11 attacks were obviously planned with pin-point precision/timing, lowest possible risk for perps to be exposed and minimum fatalities in mind. A technology still in its infancy, such as Remote Control of large aircraft would never be risked, especially when you have extremely accurate missiles, Blue Screen CGI and ready and willing media whores at your disposal.

Using such unreliable and hi-risk technology such as RC Aircraft not only increases the chances for undesired catastrophe, it creates an unnecessary timing problem (switching of aircraft) and it goes completely against the philosophy of the 9/11 plan.

Remember, the immediate objective here was to quickly and efficiently raze two decrepit nearly vacant money sucking asbestos time bomb dinosaurs and have the insurance carriers foot the bill. A few missiles, some strategically placed explosives and a low quality made for TV movie suit the bill perfectly here; no need to get all fancy with RC planes and risk being exposed.

As for the long term objectives, a convenient excuse to remain perpetually at war against cave dwelling phantoms may come to mind.

reply to post by tortillawraps

I have to say dude that i don't think there were any boeings involved, i think the planes were re-routed and the passenger manifest was alot smaller than was reported. The reason for this is that i am a member of Pilots for 9/11 truth, and they say that the reported speeds (480 knots) cannot be acheived by those planes at that altitude without shaking apart, and certainly not with those heavey maneouvres going on. So we are left with one option, remote drones or cargo planes. Check out september clues on youtube for a full explaination on how the thing could've been executed.

reply to post by Human_Alien

Don't forget about the fact that one of the noses of the plane (made of aliminium) manages to penetrate the outer steel reinforced concrete then travels all the way through the building and out the otherside intact until the picture is pulled ie blacked out. Some nose!

Originally posted by Somehumanbeing
When I read the topic title I mistakenly read "9/11 Planes... my heroes" haha.

One thing though, how do you think they would of faked the voices on the calls from the planes? I'm of the thought that perhaps maybe something DID happen that was strange, but perhaps just, what if everything that happened was mostly as factual as it gets? as in, terrorists did hijack the planes, terrorists did drive them into the WTC, and the terrorists were linked to al qaeda. It seems the more we drift away from the "official fact", the more surreal the theories turn out to be, like someone trying to find that everything coincides with the number 11, or 23. You will find it because you are looking for it, and you will make it so.

edit on 6-11-2010 by Somehumanbeing because: (no reason given)

First off the CIA have voice morphing technology, and secondly mobile phones do not work at those altitudes.

reply to post by jelleepie


WOW - a truther trifecta of stupid.....

No passengers, just remote control planes

The infamous plane nose out of the building ..

Phones don't work on airplanes

Care to post some evidence or just going to parrot the idiotic truther conspiracy crap,,,,..

Originally posted by jelleepie
reply to post by tortillawraps

 

The reason for this is that i am a member of Pilots for 9/11 truth, and they say that the reported speeds (480 knots) cannot be acheived by those planes at that altitude without shaking apart, and certainly not with those heavey maneouvres going on. So we are left with one option, remote drones or cargo planes. Check out september clues on youtube for a full explaination on how the thing could've been executed.

As a pilot yourself and a prime example of pilots for 911 truth, why can't the planes reach those speeds in a dive? Cargo planes are essentially passenger planes, so why would one be able to make the maneuver and the other not be able to.

reply to post by jelleepie


Building penetration by aircraft was not a precedent set in the 911 event, for example in July 28,1945 a bomber named "Old John Feather Merchant" crashed into the Empire state building. The plane motors ripped through the building taking out the elevator supports at the top. The accident caused one elevator attendant Betty Lou Oliver to brake her back when the elevator she was operating plummeted into the basement. At least one of the plane motors made it all the way through the Empire state building and exited the other side ending up in the street. Since the Empire State building was so tall I doubt they could have used special ladders to reach the fire.

www.check-six.com...

The motors were of the rotary air cooled variety pioneered for the Navy by several engineering partners back in the 20's.

www.bigscalemodels.com...

No terrorist flight school should be without this history