9/11 Planes... my theories

reply to post by Human_Alien



First, you should vet your sources better....AND learn to properly attribute them, on ATS.

Your diagram and "quoted" text (quotes are used for other ATS members' post snippets, from these threads). When you use outside sources, you use the letters 'ex' inside the [].

fake example

Also, a link to the outside source of the information you posted. So we don't have to hunt it down, to show you that it is unreliable, the source you used. Some people ONLY seek out the sites and "sources" that have already been self-licking for many years, regurgitating the same false claims that others have...and along the way, there is no critical review happening. So, bad "info" gets spread around, like a plague.

The entire notion of the airplanes "landing in Newburgh" to "swap" in some way is utter nonsense, and NOT supported with the known facts. What is the purpose of making such crap up, when there is ample evidence to prove it incorrect???

AND, it is true that after American 11 was hijacked (but before the cockpit invasion on United 175) the UAL 175 flight crew were alerted by ATC to watch for AAL 11. This is on record. It's not unusual in any way, but is a sad coincidence in many ways. But, only a coincidence (and hardly surprising, given that BOTH airplanes departed form Boston, to the same destination, Los Angeles. People who know nothing about flying, and aviation, can't seem to understand this, for some reason?)

Here, a video that tells the story, FROM the perspective of the actual ATC personnel that morning. These are the real deal, they talk exactly like controllers, they use the right lingo, they were vetted (obviously) by the news company (NBC) making the documentary, etc.

Google Video Link

Originally posted by tortillawraps
I don't have links... it was just a logical conclusion i came to. When you have that many engineers and experts on a single plane, but with no official explanation as to why... then clearly something is going on.

How do you know that there were a large number of engineers and or aviation techs on board that plane??
I really do find it an interesting point worth investigation. No passenger list? is it just hearsay? A little evidence please.

reply to post by 5MaveN5


There were a lot of technical people onboard American 77 that morning. Hardly surprising. Anyone who lives in the D.C. area (or bothers to do the minimal research) will realize that the "Dulles Corridor" is like a mini Silicon Valley in a way....only, not so much the computer industry, but aerospace and related electronics. SO, the Dulles Airport is a natural departure point from that region (versus the 45-minute drive to the National Airport...and the sometimes higher fares from DCA).

Also, lots of aerospace industry in Southern California, especially LA.

But, those nutty "9/11 conspiracy" sites keep making hay out of these easily researched facts, into something that is nothing....just based on over-active imaginations.

If you could find out in some way (face-to-face polls at the airport??) even today, you could look at passenger lists flying back and forth on same IAD-LAX route, and still find many in the same sorts of professions, even today.

But, "conspiracy" wonks don't want their bubbles burst...they live for this paranoid crap.....

reply to post by impressme

I am not trying to be facetious, however 911 myths has been proven to be a disinformation website only consistent of the authors beliefs, in fact it is now look upon as credible as Alex Jones rants and raves and his opinions. 911 Myths lacks critical scientific evidence into supporting the authors’ opinions, even if the author supports theories from the truth movement.

If you read the link you will see that it is a little more detailed than what tortillawraps has given us.
If you or tortillawraps are capable of countering the information, do so.

www.911myths.com...

Quote from link

As far a tampering with the Pressurization System, good luck. I didn’t talk about this system above but I'll outline
it briefly now. There are 2 Pressure Auto Controllers which can be selected either manually or automatically. The
Cabin Outflow Valve receives open/close commands from the Auto Controllers and regulates pressurization by
modulating a door. If a Controller fails(there are a multitude of fault conditions), EICAS will display the warning
"CABIN ALT AUTO 1(2)", the system will then switch over the backup controller without any pilot input.
Should that controller fail, a "CABIN AUTO INOP" message will be displayed by EICAS. Even if cabin altitude
rises without a fault being detected, an aneroid switch in the system will activate at 11,000' cabin altitude, and
command the Cabin Outflow Valve closed, halting the loss of pressurization. Should this fail, there is a backup
DC system which commands the Outflow Valve directly from a selector switch on the Pressurization Control
Panel in the flight deck. There is also an Altitude Switch that activates a red "Cabin Altitude" warning light, a red
"CABIN ALTITUDE" EICAS warning message, which is accompanied by a steady aural tone - this happens at
10,000' cabin altitude. There are also Outflow Valve position and Cabin Altitude indicators in the flight deck. As
you can tell, the pressurization is a redundant system and would be extremely difficult to sabotage. However,
even if successful in defeating this system, the pilots would merely don their Protective Breathing Equipment
masks which supply oxygen.

reply to post by weedwhacker


First, you should ask the Mods if you can become one of them. Until you do (and are denied) don't dare tell me what to do, how to do it and how to post 'reliable sources'.

The truth be known Weed....no one knows what happened that day. My theory is as good as the OS so you're out of gas.
I don't care if you don't deem my 'sources' reliable. Shall I just ask George W what happened? Oh wait, that's right, he said he saw the first plane that morning. Shall I ask Rumsfeld? Ooops, he said the plane over Shanksville was 'shot down'.

Again, get off my back and your berating me shows total lack of character! If in the future you don't like my post, skip over it and don't give me a star. Problem solved.

My 'planes being swapped at Newburgh NY' resonates well with me in fact, it helps answer a lot of missing information.
At this point, any one can take a stab at what happened. All if not most of us know, the omissions in the Commission report speaks volumes. In fact, they've made it so we are SUPPOSED to fill in the blanks.

reply to post by Human_Alien

My 'planes being swapped at Newburgh NY' resonates well with me in fact, it helps answer a lot of missing information. [/ex

So why did nobody see these mythical planes? Had to takeoff from somewhere - 767 requires several thousand
feet of runway to takeoff. Requires hard surface to support a 300,000 lb aircraft so where did they come from ?

Where did mythical airplanes come from - takes MONTHS to construct one using millions of manhours and
a huge factory - not like Boeing cranking 'em out like sausages All the 767 constructed are accounted for.....

Want some FACTS - not usual BS from you .....

....

Originally posted by thedman
want some FACTS - not usual BS from you .....

You want facts??? I implore you to make a time-machine and travel back to that morning if you want concrete FACTS.

"Facts" become 'confusion' when convenient.
"Fact" WAS, flight 93 landed in Cleveland. But then......ooops, it was just confusion.


"Fact" was....Bush 'saw' the first plane crash into building that morning. Again......that fact was 'confusion'.
When caught up in a 'truth'.....just spin it into 'confusion'. Most of you buy it anyway so why should they stop now?

So you want facts? Good luck. I am not distributing BS. I am offering options and opinions.


And 'manhours' you question? They've had 39 years since Operation Northwoods and 4 years since PNAC.
I think that was ample time, no?

However, even if successful in defeating this system, the pilots would merely don their Protective Breathing Equipment masks which supply oxygen.

Tell that to the pilots and crew of Helios 522. 'Merely' don their masks? Rapidly reducing oxygen leads to confusion and nothing is as simple as 'merely'.

IMO if we assume that the technology exists to close out the crew and control these planes from a distance, than any safeguards that are in place in the cockpit are useless. Even though these planes were flown with hydraulically assisted cables instead of the full fly by wire, it would still be perfectly possible to remote control just as autopilot can move these control surfaces, and ridiculously easy if the pilots are incapacitated so they can't try to gain back control. Even if gaining back control were as simple as pushing a button or popping out a circuit breaker, passed out pilots can't do this.

If it were simply terrorists overpowering the pilots in all the planes, why no warning from the crew (i don't believe 4 times they were caught by surprise) and why is this like the first time that the records which match a black box to a plane go missing... not for one but all the planes? What is someone hiding hmm? Add to this the coincidental 'training exercises' which perfectly matched what was actually going on just enough to mess with proper response protocols, and Cheney putting himself in charge and being told 'the plane is approaching are we still going ahead with the plan' or something to that affect... and there's no argument here. Too many coincidences and odd happenings. If it were real hijackings by armed men the government would be shouting from the high hills with evidence and we'd probably be hearing the real CVR and seeing real FDR evidence.

And some of the 'hijackers' wouldn't later be found alive and well after the fact.

reply to post by weedwhacker


Well, since you frame your beliefs on the fact that these are passenger jets, nothing will ever change your mind...however we are still waiting for proof that they were.

Certainly in all the videos one does not see evidence of any normal passenger jet...if you would please provide a picture that could show us what plane it was.

Until then, why bother trying to convince people of how "normal" procedures would have been followed and how things went down.

reply to post by Human_Alien


I asked a direct question

You said swapped planes in Newburgh NY

Question is where did you get 2 767's, not like you buy them in supermarket as Boeing only builds them to
order and takes months to construct ?

Question - where did these mythical planes takeoff from considering require hard surface runways several
thousand feet long - not like can easily hide?

Try to answer .....

Originally posted by GrinchNoMore
reply to post by weedwhacker

 

Well, since you frame your beliefs on the fact that these are passenger jets, nothing will ever change your mind...however we are still waiting for proof that they were.

Certainly in all the videos one does not see evidence of any normal passenger jet...if you would please provide a picture that could show us what plane it was.

Until then, why bother trying to convince people of how "normal" procedures would have been followed and how things went down.

You do the same prove they were Not!

Originally posted by thedman
reply to post by Human_Alien

 

I asked a direct question

You said swapped planes in Newburgh NY

Question is where did you get 2 767's, not like you buy them in supermarket as Boeing only builds them to
order and takes months to construct ?

Question - where did these mythical planes takeoff from considering require hard surface runways several
thousand feet long - not like can easily hide?

Try to answer .....

Okay, allow me to put on my 'what-I-believe-happened-that-morning' hat.
This is assuming the 'people' were real.

Flights 11 (Boston 7:59 AM) and 175 (Boston 8:14 AM) were actual flights. They had a rendezvous and met up in Stewart International Airport @ Newburgh NY around 8:41.
Air Traffic Control personnel were all F'ed up not knowing what was real and what was 'a War Game"
At that time, 'hijack planes were already reported so the 'confusion' was on!

The passengers/crew were led off the two planes and evidence shows one plane (Flight 93 but probably held passengers from all four planes) was flown and landed in Cleveland early that morning. But was later denied or deemed: confusion.

Two other remote controlled MARKED planes, Flight 11 and Flight 175, proceeded into Manhattan (pre-planned and launched from Newburgh International Airport seeing it was/is a military base).......... where three towers fell.

Yup! I buy that more than I do the OS.

"Well, since you frame your beliefs on the fact that these are passenger jets, nothing will ever change your mind...however we are still waiting for proof that they were."

Don't hold your breath. Although it is not too difficult to produce a crappy looking bluescreen CGI which few people would question using a clear blue sky as background (see WTC fake videos), the complex Pentagon scenery is another story. You're talking about highways, light poles, an irregular looking building and a very low altitude approach.

Releasing such a phony looking CGI video would have blown the lid off the cover. Who knows? Maybe they attempted to create such a fake Pentagon video and ended up canning it because it looked awful.

Funny how the Pentagon has even refused to release video from the Pentagon which would show the side of the Pentagon which was not attacked. This makes one wonder, does this video even exist? Or were the camera systems conveniently shut off prior to the attacks to prevent any leaks.

As for the commercial airliners being switched in Newburgh, that is apparently total rubbish since there is no evidence of commercial airliners being directly used for these attacks. As with many other ridiculous theories, that story was probably concocted by the same perps to make conspiracy theorists look like whackjobs.

If you do not have the mental capacity to distinguish reality from a massive psychological screw job, you're better off completely swallowing the official fairy tale.

reply to post by weedwhacker

That's your claim. You are full of claims, based on flawed assumptions to begin with, and little else.

The irony is thick, young Padawan.....

Definition of padawan :

1. (n.) An apprentice who undergoes intensive training under a learned Jedi Knight. In many cases, the apprentice is referred to as a young padawan.

Origins: From the popular Star Wars saga.

www.unwords.com...


OK, let's review... Truthers are supposed to be the ones wearing tin hats and believe in disappearing planes, etc., but YOU, Pteridine, are the one using "Star Wars" vocabulary to ridicule me!!!

You really are a child! I think we can all sit back and have a good laugh - only this time, it is at your expense!

911Myths is a proven disinformation website.

9/11 Myths has long been a favorite resource for skeptics and debunkers alike. Its author, Mike Williams, has compiled a collection of straw men, coupled with many distorted interpretations of valid claims. While many of Mike’s “takes” can be dismissed as patently absurd by most of us, his slimy nature and style of addressing these can be deceptive to those who are new to this material and haven’t had time to do their research. Therefore, I think it’s important that we have a thread dedicated to debunking 9/11 Myths. It’s a huge website and so I don’t know if I will ever have the time to write an entire debunk, however, if we all work together on this we’ll have Mike’s site debunked in no time!

pilotsfor911truth.org...

This is just one of the facts on the page why don’t you read the rest of the proven lies that are on this page uncovered by people who have thoroughly done their research on many of the 911 events.
Many of these people showed how and where 911myths lied about some of their information and these people posted credible sources to back their findings. So, it’s not my “flawed assumption,” it is a fact. Any time you guys want to challenge me using disinformation from 911myths, I will have no problems counter the lies with proven facts.

Originally posted by tortillawraps

However, even if successful in defeating this system, the pilots would merely don their Protective Breathing Equipment masks which supply oxygen.

Tell that to the pilots and crew of Helios 522. 'Merely' don their masks? Rapidly reducing oxygen leads to confusion and nothing is as simple as 'merely'.

IMO if we assume that the technology exists to close out the crew and control these planes from a distance, than any safeguards that are in place in the cockpit are useless. Even though these planes were flown with hydraulically assisted cables instead of the full fly by wire, it would still be perfectly possible to remote control just as autopilot can move these control surfaces, and ridiculously easy if the pilots are incapacitated so they can't try to gain back control. Even if gaining back control were as simple as pushing a button or popping out a circuit breaker, passed out pilots can't do this.

If it were simply terrorists overpowering the pilots in all the planes, why no warning from the crew (i don't believe 4 times they were caught by surprise) and why is this like the first time that the records which match a black box to a plane go missing... not for one but all the planes? What is someone hiding hmm? Add to this the coincidental 'training exercises' which perfectly matched what was actually going on just enough to mess with proper response protocols, and Cheney putting himself in charge and being told 'the plane is approaching are we still going ahead with the plan' or something to that affect... and there's no argument here. Too many coincidences and odd happenings. If it were real hijackings by armed men the government would be shouting from the high hills with evidence and we'd probably be hearing the real CVR and seeing real FDR evidence.

And some of the 'hijackers' wouldn't later be found alive and well after the fact.

edit on 7-11-2010 by tortillawraps because: (no reason given)

Why is this idiotic theory of hi-jackers found alive still doing the rounds? It didn't happen. It is as bad as the idiotic theory that still does the rounds of no hi-jackers listed on the media list of victims. Al Q named and praised their 19 'martyrs'. Some of them produced martyrdom tapes. The hi-jackers still alive theory has been done to death. It is best explained on the following video.



TJ

Originally posted by GrinchNoMore
reply to post by weedwhacker

 

Well, since you frame your beliefs on the fact that these are passenger jets, nothing will ever change your mind...however we are still waiting for proof that they were.

Certainly in all the videos one does not see evidence of any normal passenger jet...if you would please provide a picture that could show us what plane it was.

Until then, why bother trying to convince people of how "normal" procedures would have been followed and how things went down.

Not 'normal passenger jet'? Have you studied the images and videos? Do you have any training in aircraft recognition? I have during my time in the military. Both the aircraft imaged during the WTC attacks are immediately recognisable as Boeing 767s. This is basic aircraft recognition skills. Any aviation enthusiast with those basic skills will be able to determine from those stills that they are 767s.

The nuts examining those videos and stills try to point out 'no windows' or 'mysterious under fuselage pods'. Others examine stills and claim that one engine or wing is larger than the other without taking into consideration of the effects of perspective. It is based on pure ignorance, naivety and gullibility.

TJ

reply to post by Human_Alien


Still didn't answer the question

If landed at Stewart airport why did nobody see them?

Not like can hide a 767

Explain how passengers from Newburgh get to Flight 93?

Not making an logical sense - not that expected you would....

I also remember the lack of weeping families at their respective airports....

Yet every other crash of a plane always shows grieving families waiting at the airport for further news....

Didnt happen on 9/11.....

Originally posted by benoni
I also remember the lack of weeping families at their respective airports....

Yet every other crash of a plane always shows grieving families waiting at the airport for further news....

Didnt happen on 9/11.....

What a distasteful truther comment and someone has given you a star for it !

A comment presumably intended to suggest that the the 9/11 plane victims didn't exist. An idea nobody could reasonably expect to gain traction outside the funny-farm.

How do you know how many victims were expected to be met by relatives as opposed to being on business trips etc ?

How do you know no grieving relatives were at Los Angeles and San Francisco ?

Fact is all the hi-jacked flights were trans-continental and were hi-jacked and crashed early in their flights. How many people in California do you think would have been blissfully unaware of what had happened in the east by the time these flights were due to land ? ( 5 1/2 hr flight time approx ) Not forgetting that many had already heard by telephone.

Originally posted by thedman
reply to post by Human_Alien

 

Still didn't answer the question

If landed at Stewart airport why did nobody see them?

Not like can hide a 767

Explain how passengers from Newburgh get to Flight 93?

Not making an logical sense - not that expected you would....

Let's clear up the flights, shall we?
Flight 93 (Let's Roll) Shanksville Departure Newark NY 8:42
Flight 175, WTC Departure Boston 8:14
Flight 11 WTC Departure Boston 7:59
Flight 77 (missile) Pentagon Departure Washington DC 8:20

How do we know nobody noticed anything? I never had the opportunity to interview anyone. Did you?

Good chance people were silenced with threats. Stranger and more sinister things happen within the "greatest country in the world" Are you aware of what this 'great' government is capable of?
(Operation Northwoods) (PNAC)

You are the type that if you don't see it on TV then, it didn't happen. If it wasn't reported in the Wall Street Journal then again, it never took place.
You know how to tell what's true? Stop relying on MSM to tell you and whatever they DO tell you, apply the opposite!

I have no reason to believe 19 fictitious hijackers killed 97 innocent people.

I DO have EVERY reason to believe our government fabricated 19 hijackers and might've, could've, would've killed 247 innocent people (crew/passengers if......real) not to mention the ones in the towers.

The Pentagon?.......I'm not sure anyone was killed there seeing it was a missile and we know no one was killed in Shanksville. Let's Roll!!!!!


Let me ask you this. Where are all the families to all these victims? Funny, only a handful came forward making their rounds on TV.
Where are all the rest?

Yeah. Just as I thought. No one knows.
I rest my case.