Malevolent or Benevolent? The BIG Alien question...

reply to post by Springer


probably there are quite a big number of different alien species in the galaxy. Some would be hostile and some would be friendly and most would be neutral. I think you can`t classify them into a single group.

If an alien race visits us, there's 2 things most of people miss regarding it:

1) The aliens would not have immunity to our bacterias, meaning they might get sick entering out climate bare skinned.
2) With such technology, they would probably only need our water for fueling their cold fusion or whatever, not our cows and sheep and children.

Maybe they're meat eaters, and would just eat us up Don't know.

Thing is, if they were evil, they would've wiped us out already.

reply to post by Springer


With all due respect to Mr Hawkings, he is a HUMAN...how on earth would he or anyone else know what ETs intentions are?

If ETs DNA was only 2% different to ours, there would be a massive difference

(Chimps have 98% human DNA) - To paint the picture!

I believe there are good and bad ETs out there, as there is the colour Black and White, i dont believe one can survive without the other, so i guess everyone is right. What i would say though is that the chances of ETs doing what us primitive humans do would be pretty far fetched, afterall they are more advanced than us so why?...we cant assume to know ET when we dont know they exist (yet).

At the end of the day does it really matter?

Originally posted by jrmcleod
If ETs DNA was only 2% different to ours, there would be a massive difference

(Chimps have 98% human DNA) - To paint the picture!

Very interesting point. The only probability that might make the aliens look ANYTHING like us humanoids, is they actually "planted" us here.

reply to post by observe50


Wow, that is incredibly intriguing. What more have you been shown? I would like to know everything.

I am inclined to think that otherwise advanced people might possibly have advanced beyond the stage where they have a need to go looking for raw materials with which to sustain themselves. I should think that if they can zoom from system to system and/or planet to planet they probably have learned how to synthesize what they need perhaps directly from a star. If this is true then why come here? Well for entertainment maybe. For them it's probably fun watching us killing each other over religion and oil etc... "Earth vacations". Come along with the group to view primitive humans who are only just beginning to leave their planet. Blah blah... Could be nothing more than this. We have a way about us of always looking for mysterious and mystical reasons for things. For this trait alone, they might consider us quite humorous and worth the price of a ticket to come here for vacation.

No, I do not think any "aliens" are hostile. I believe that Hawkings is wrong to suggest that. I do not see the logic. Why? Well, really advanced people, if they really wanted something that we had, could just sneak in and take it without bothering with us. Surely if they are so advanced then fooling us would be child's play. Thus, no need to be hostile at all. In fact they could easily take care to not harm our earth in the mining or whatever else they do out of compassion for our planet. So here is how an alien force might be taking from us without being "hostile". You know, those who go right to war without first thinking of less messy ways really are wasteful and stupid. That description would fit our great American neo-con business guys a lot better than it would fit any group of advanced beings.

Now that I think of it, this method might explain all the very strange sites around the world where evidence of mining remains but no stories of "wars with gods" endure. The gold mines in Africa that are tens of thousands of years old. The Nazca plain where entire mountain (or hill) tops are missing (never mind the lines) where did all the dirt go to? And why did it go? Are there concentrations of valuable minerals in the area? How come the naysayers never address that? Because they don't know what to say is why....

Sigh....

While it is true that humans, for the most part, have shown ourselves to be destructive and predatory at the societal level, we also tend to assimilate our neighbors without much bloodshed. And, with every war, more and more people have come to see brutality as excessive. When the Spanish plundered Hispaniola, Fray Bartolome de las Casas bore witness to the atrocities carried out against the Arawak stating that "millions" had been dwindled down to almost nothing. He also noted the destruction of the forests on what would become Haiti and the Dominican Republic. I would say that the Arawak and the forests of Hispaniola were intertwined and could not be separated, something that the Spanish had, through becoming an Empire, lost except for the smallest backwaters on the Iberian Peninsula. Empire had already risen and fallen so many times on that Peninsula, the Spanish were a product of atrocities.

From here, let's zoom forward to Brazilian thinker Paulo Freire and his Pedagogy of the Oppressed, where he states that in the brutality of oppression, the oppressed - when given the chance - become the oppressors, treating those who oppressed them, and eventually their compatriots, in the same fashion they were once treated. We see this on the human-to-human level when a person who is abused, sexually or otherwise, may see fit to do the same once that person is in a position of power over another. It is only logical to take this to the next step and see that, at the social level, the same possibilities exist en masse.

As far as potential visiting travelers, I think we could probably expect somewhat similar actions. This opinion stems from evolutionary tendencies on our planet. I can only assume that evolution would be carried out in a similar Darwinian framework, no matter the basic elements of a given planet. So, any species that ends up following the social path that eventually leads to space exploration, by whatever means available, would most likely have gone through similar trials and tribulations as the human race:

1. All animals make use of relevant objects in their surroundings (Uexkull's Umwelt)
2. Humans directly manipulated their surrounding objects (as for making tools, building shelter)
3. As semiotic beings, Humans created a form of supra-individual communication ability (language)
4. The next step was the expanding of that communication system to totally flout time itself (writing)

In the process of these developments, we have had moments of awe, when we have realized that what we have done (as a specific group generally - such as the Spanish, or the Germans, or the Americans at this moment and so on) were not fruitful but for a few people running the show. This goes back to Freire, in that most people living in Empire, soon realize what that means at a personal level, even if they never see the battlefields, the battlefield mentality eventually hits home (surveillance state, terrorist-driven paranoia, etc.).

When the aliens finally get here, they may want us for food, or just resources, but make no mistake, they want something. You don't leave your planet without totally consuming your resources at home and most likely the resources belonging to someone else. At any rate, my hope would be that at some point during a predatory alien species's intergalactic resource grab, their consciousness would be affected by a similar de las Casas or Freire or Hawking.

How it will all play out depends greatly upon whether we become their Americas, their Waterloo, their Afghanistan, or their --insert eventual analogy yet to be realized by a future Empire whose empire-building leads to their own distruction. One thing I know for sure, they won't be Buddhists - Buddhists would probably never leave their planet, because it kind of negates the whole "being present" thing. You can't be present if you are removing mountain tops and destroying the sea floor to construct a space program cum military-industrial complex.

**I would normally proof-read a long post like this to fix there/their/they're style issues or pleonasms that come from pretty much straight-forward thought-to-keyboard action, but I have to run out now, so be kind on the grammar nitpickiness.

A race with the power of interstellar travel and advanced technologies that does not have the boundaries of emotions, morals, guilt, religion, compassion....etc. doesn't make them maelevolent or benevolent. I would think an advanced race wouldn't have these boundaries to begin with. These types of things limit the potential of a species, however, as far as humans go, these things help define who we are.....and they limit us as well.

I would imagine that "Survival of the fittest" works on a universal scale as well as it does on a planetary scale.

Try to reason with a shark the next time he's about to bite you and see how far it gets you. The best killing and eating machine in the ocean. It doesn't care who you are, what you do or what your opinion might be. You are food and nothing more to it. Thank god sharks have not evolved any further than what they have.

reply to post by Springer


maybe aliens don't have the resources or capacity to take over earth. just like we only send 1 space shuttle at a time into space. they might only have the capability send long range ships of exploration, and not a fleet of invading warships.

you would have to be insane just to destroy earth for no apparent reason.

Every one is talking about This Aliens and what their intentions could be. Remmeber that...., There is at least 1 or more alien species that are already here, watching US, watching NASA, chilling on the Backside of the moon, and every now and then making an vage apparience,. This aliens Do not appear to be harmless, this are the ones, disabling our Nukes etc.. maybe waiting for the right time to invade, or maybe waiting a little longer before letting us joing their space community,..

Other aliens outside of out solar system, that are NOT currently watching Us, are the ones that could have bad intentions, Truth is, we just dont know... Lots of alien races out there, lots of possible outcomes!

I alluded to this in another thread though not so eloquently. Well stated!

reply to post by Springer


When has any civilization with advanced technology and knowledge ever been benevolent to the cultures it visits?

Never.

reply to post by Springer

Have you read the Urantia papers sounds like its all laid out to a plan .
Tried to read it but it was to spiritual for me

DEATH APES ON CRACK

It would take at least a thread OP, and probably a book or movie, or at least a YouTube video to properly explain the concept of death apes on crack. Basically that's best characterization any TRULY advanced (meaning morally-ethically and spiritually) extraterrestrials would use for the dominant culture of Earth humans. (That's not ALL of humanity, but the clear majority, if not vast majority). And yes, there could be malevolent beings watching us, and/or f-ing with us, who are equally such apes as well. That's not to insult ACTUAL apes! They're natural and normal enough animals.

The "death apes" part should be obvious; humanity is an entirely too dominantly violent, crazed, fanatic "civilization." The "on crack" part represents, again, fanaticism (or mere BELIEFS with no DESIRE for objectivity), but in the ADDICTED-to-illusions of all types of illusions sense... Or that's the nearest I can define it in a few words. Yippee for death apes on crack!

If extraterrestrial beings did in fact exist, in all likeliness they would be diverse in beliefs, values and ideals. there would be malevolent and benevolent aliens, just as there are malevolent and benevolent humans beings.

I have yet to hear of a single valid argument of a negative based entity that is based even a little bit in plausable reality.

People whom give the bad alien discussion either envoke religion, or simply do not understand the makeup of the galaxy. There is no resource here that is not in major droves in space ripe for the pickins..there is no task we humans can do that a basic machine could not do better...there is no computation a human can make that even a dated computer could not exceed at, etc...

nothing...not a single valid argument that doesn't use the terms "Jesus" or "antichrist" in its topic...and thats all I really have to say about it...people watch too many cowboys and indians hollywood movies (like skyline coming out) to jade their views...and its my opinion that our views of aliens are even more primitive than what blacks and chinese used to be in very early television (jungle spearchucking apes and big toothed ching chow ming mau characters of a early mega racist america).

We look at aliens as potential monsters because in reality, we are the monsters...its obvious the reason why they don't pop over for a very public cup of tea...its because us apes would go nuts with our racism and religious intolerance.

Originally posted by Jonas86
If an alien race visits us, there's 2 things most of people miss regarding it:

1) The aliens would not have immunity to our bacterias, meaning they might get sick entering out climate bare skinned.
2) With such technology, they would probably only need our water for fueling their cold fusion or whatever, not our cows and sheep and children.

Maybe they're meat eaters, and would just eat us up

Don't know.

Thing is, if they were evil, they would've wiped us out already.

1) They figured out FTL travel, yet cant figure out how to beat off a bug? unlikely
2) There are entire planets made of nothing but water...not to mention comets flying all over the place.....what does our water have..and fusion reaction? how quaint..bit like suggesting a space shuttle is run off of a steam engine (ya, we are -that- far behind). I am thinking zero point would be the natural progression for power considering it doesn't matter what resources are available, it all works

reply to post by Springer


Once more TPTB that run the various media outlets have come up with the old "lets scare the cattle to believe that all aliens are evil". Why its a standing military order to shoot down any incomming craft and has been for the last 40 years. Have you ever noticed that all the big blockbuster movies that have aliens in them are creepy bugs, or some other hidious lifeform. Never any aliens that look just like humans. I believe its part of the program to keep the human race in fear. Since the real aliens are already here, and have infiltrated all forms of goverment, banking, media, mega-corporations, the military, intelligence services, religions. They'll just put out a scarry movie to make lots of $$$. To continue the program and keep the cattle in line.

Reminds me of that black & white movie from the earily 60's where the alien came to offer the cure for all cancers, and we the people thought it was a weapon and broke it.

If you conquor your fear then there program won't have the effect its ment to have.

my 2 cents

Originally posted by rusethorcain
reply to post by lowki

 

Interesting post but among many things doubtful, this is not true.

Look at nature, it's an ongoing war for resources, one plant growing taller with more leaves than another. letting the saplings in the under-story wait, hoping for one of the greats to fall, so they can fill it's place.

Nothing in nature is waiting for another thing to fall so it can prosper.

Actually if you've ever been in a forest,
you will quite likely notice this is the case,
there are some tall trees, and some saplings,
the saplings can only grow big when there is enough light.

carnivores aren't gardeners, they are hunters.

Ever hear of a cattle ranch?

sure, we are hybrids though.
it's the mammal in us that can take care of things.
Reptilians lay their eggs and leave.

sure, maybe some hybrids do occur, that can garden,
that are capable of the vast agricultural requirements of meat.
or at least are capable of gathering food to feed an animal.
realize you have to understand plants to gather,
and grow them to be able to garden,
though at that point it seems,
why not just go vegan?

herding does occur among carnivores,
like they can move them from place to place,
or motivate them to do so,
such as by hook and whip,
or mortgage and interest,
in homo-sapien terms.

the main skills of the herder,
is killing the weak and lame,
and scaring the strong,
to be submissive examples.