9/11 Justice: Would You Accept This? (video to add perspective)

I found this nifty little video that adds some much needed perspective. When you take a step back and look at the abstract, it shows just how silly and absurd this situation is. It's real easy to get caught up with all of the buzz-words, stereo-types and distractions surrounding this subject matter, however when you break it down to abstracts, it becomes painfully obvious just how absurd the situation is. Of course, perspective is something that the OS needs to suppress in order to stay viable or even relevant.

With that being said, it should be noted that this thread and the above video is not arguing any theory over another, rather it is simply drawing a parallel to add some much needed perspective. This isn't about the 9/11 attacks per se but rather the after-math of the attacks and the absurd response that we are being forced to swallow.

Even the most ardent OS or official conspiracy theory supporter can't really deny that the so-called "independent investigation" wasn't really independent, nor was it really an investigation, at least one with any goal or outcome resulting in questions being answered. Knowing that, what's so wrong with a real, transparent and independent investigation, if for no other reason than to quiet us seekers of the truth and throw egg in our faces? I certainly don't think that it is too much to ask for an investigation into an event that has not only changed our way of life, but has also changed the planet.

The attacks on 9/11 have displaced our charter, snubbed the flame of liberty, slapped the face of lady liberty, dented our economy, subverted our Constitution and killed many brave Americans, both on that day and as a result of the related policy. Why on Earth would anyone not want a thorough investigation?

If it is such an obvious fact that the OS is accurate, then what could an investigation hurt? If it was so clear that what the government tells us happened, actually did, then surely an investigation would show that, would it not? Only those with things to hide or those not so sure of their claimed convictions would try and stifle or obfuscate a reasoned look into the matter.

This country belongs to the people, therefore we should be the jury, not the pawns. Allow us to weigh the evidence, as opposed to sheltering us from it.


--airspoon

reply to post by airspoon


Touche'.
A 3rd party investigation would definately be beneficial. When you think about it, we quite often have more than one investigation into certain matters. Fbi and NSA often investigate the same incidents, soo.... why not the most noticeable disaster in recent human history?

Thanks again Airspoon.

reply to post by airspoon


BRAVO! S&F!!!

That's all I ever wanted.... a fair investigation!

Thanks for the post!

In all honesty, a better analogy would be the book, "To Kill a Mockingbird" where Atticus Finch needed to defend Tom Robinson from rape charges-

Atticus Finch- "I have proven that all the witnesses claiming Tom Robinson raped this girl are lying"
Everyone- "Yeah, but he's a n*gger, let's hang him".
Atticus Finch- "but I have proven this girl was propositioning him and he refused her advances"
Everyone- "Yeah, but he's a n*gger, let's hang him"
Atticus Finch- "but I have shown Tom Robinson is crippled and couldn't possibly have done this"
Everyone- "Yeah, but he's a n*gger, let's hang him"
Atticus Finch- "His race doesn't matter. This man is clearly innocent of this crime"
Everyone- "Nah, you're just a n*gger lover. He's a n*gger, let's hang him".

...then there's you conspiracy people...

Us: "We have proven Dylan Avery and David Ray Griffin are lying"
You: "Yeah, but it's an inside job by the gov't to stage a false flag operation"
Us: "but we have proven it would require an astronomical amount of resources for it to be an inside job"
You: "Yeah, but it's an inside job by the gov't to stage a false flag operation"
Us: "We have shown the gov't is too disorganized to pull off any such complex conspiracy'
You: "Yeah, but it's an inside job by the gov't to stage a false flag operation"
Us: "Despite what the gov't did or didn't do in the past, these conspiracy claims still make no sense"
You: "Nah, you're just a secret gov't disinformation agent. It's an inside job by the gov't to stage a false flag operation"

The question should therefore really be, "Would YOU accept, 'To Kill a Mockingbird' justice"? Up until now, you obviously are.

reply to post by GoodOlDave


I gave you a star for creativity.
However, if a nation is divided on such a huge issue, and the government cares about its citizens and wants there to be trust and transparency, then they should listen to the people and reopen the investigation.

There is no "US" and "YOU" when it comes to the UNITED States of America. It's WE THE PEOPLE...

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

...then there's you conspiracy people...

Us: "We have proven Dylan Avery and David Ray Griffin are lying"

And? because some points they made years ago may be wrong, its all wrong? please Dave

You: "Yeah, but it's an inside job by the gov't to stage a false flag operation"

Possibly Correct

Us: "but we have proven it would require an astronomical amount of resources for it to be an inside job"

And losing millions, if not billions in defense money.. isnt astronomical amounts of resources...?

You: "Yeah, but it's an inside job by the gov't to stage a false flag operation"

Possibly Correct

Us: "We have shown the gov't is too disorganized to pull off any such complex conspiracy'

Thats heresay, and speculation.. its easy to appear disorganized.. come on Dave, you are a smart feller...

You: "Yeah, but it's an inside job by the gov't to stage a false flag operation"

Possibly Correct

Us: "Despite what the gov't did or didn't do in the past, these conspiracy claims still make no sense"

But actually investigating it makes a lot of sense... perhaps millions of sense..

You: "Nah, you're just a secret gov't disinformation agent. It's an inside job by the gov't to stage a false flag operation"

Perhaps you are.. though possibly correct.

The question should therefore really be, "Would YOU accept, 'To Kill a Mockingbird' justice"? Up until now, you obviously are.

Uh... thats extremely absurd to relate investigating the deaths of thousands, which lead in the deaths of more thousands.. to an old book telling a racist story.

I expected a better arguement from ya.

as always Spoon you post some
of the greatest stuff on ATS.
This was a great find
S&F

and it is spot on

and to answer the question:
NO, I would not accept it.

Spot on in the abstract - Lee Hamiltion helped Reagan dodge some painful questions about the "October Surprise" during the 80's, somehow keeping up his illusion of being bipartisan.
The real man in charge of the coverup, er "investigation" - Phillip Zelikow worked with Condoleeza Rice and is neocon to the core. Another case of foxes guarding the hen house I'm afraid.
Subpoena powers were granted but rarely if ever used while investigating 9/11.
One would think that since that day was the single largest failure of US intelligence and Military someone might be reprimanded for poor performance? Nobody was demoted,criticized or blamed for any part of the government response, in fact several people were promoted including Major Nasypany for arriving too late and JCOS Gen Myers - for failure to protect the US.
Our secretary of defense abandoned his duty post for a photo op (Heckuva job Rummy!)
What kind of whackjob government do we have anyway?

If we wanted to have a cost-effective military perhaps we should arm our soldiers with box cutters and cell phones, look at what just 19 (mostly Arab) men did in one day!

i couldn't agree more,the world is screaming for a full public independent international inquiry,lets put this 9/11 to bed once and for all,if there nothing to hide,there nothing to worry about.

even though they disposed of all the evidence,they still won't have one..WHY..? what are they afraid of..well we all know why.

Genius that was Bill Cooper explain it all in this vid...





and as usual goodoldave is loitering in the 9/11 threads again.

reply to post by Asktheanimals


It's pretty crazy when you realize all of the similarities between the "Tower Commission" and the so-called 9/11 "Commission". The two were even staffed by the same people.


--airspoon

Originally posted by snapperski
the world is screaming for a full public independent international inquiry,

They are? Care to provide proof of that claim?

What most truthers refuse to accept is that with their silly conspiracy theories of:
beam weapons, holographic planes, mini nukes, nanoo nanoo thermite, hush a boom explosives and the old standby, THE JEWS DID IT etc etc. they have zero credibility in the real world!

reply to post by dereks


Many people make a good argument that certain influences are the one spreading those theories, however they are just as silly as the wild and outlandish official conspiracy theory. The theory that 19 cave-dwelling Arabs were jealous of our freedoms and so set out on a mission that had 1,000,000/1 odds (at best), then got lucky and succeeded. The point here, is that all kinds of people come up with all kinds of crazy theories and "lazer beam weapons from outer-space theories" don't represent the truth movement any more than the absurd and outlandish official conspiracy theory.

The one thing that most "truthers" do have in common, is we simply aren't willing to throw common-sense, reason and logic out of the window, all on the word of government, absent any kind of proof, compelling evidence or investigation.

I have yet to meet one single person who believes whole-heartedly or is convinced that lazer-beam weapons brought down the buildings or that there weren't any planes. It's generally some blogger somewhere, basically giving fodder to official conspiracy theorists and an excuse to side-step the more reasonable claims/evidence by debunking the outlandish and claiming to debunk the entire movement.

Lazer beam weapon theroies are just as absurd as the OS and the truth movement is about rejecting the absurd OS, not championing any theory over another.

As far as "the Jews did it", it isn't that simple. Many people, believe that Israel could have had a hand in it and most people who believe such a notion, do so based off of evidence and precedent. The official conspiracy theorists can't even claim as much. We know that Israel has at least tried false-flag attacks on the US before 9/11 (USS Liberty). We also know that suspicious "dancing Israelis" were arrested on the day of the attacks for at least suspicious behavior, then quietly released, all the while the entire incident was ignored by the MSM, save for when they were first arrested and they were seen as Middle Eastern, as opposed to Israeli.

The simple and sad fact of the matter, is that we don't know what happened on that day and therein lies the problem. Nobody knows with any certainty what happened, as there has been a crystal clear effort to obfuscate the truth. OSers or official conspiracy theorists base their entire belief on "the word" of government, a government that has been caught [red-handed] lying on several occasions. Whatever the case and whatever side of the fence you sit on, you simply don't know for a fact what happened or who did it, as there is a clear effort to keep thatproof under wraps, ultimately sewing suspicion on those obfuscating.

While OS'ers need to ignore (root word of ignorance) a plethora of conditions and evidence in order to maintain their belief in the OS, truthers simply don't and reject the OS because they aren't ignorant of variables. Again, a truther is not someone who comes up with all kinds of theories about what happened on that day, rather a truther is simply someone who refuses to embrace ignorance by beliving in the government's version of what happened, which requires a certain level of ignorance.


--airspoon

Originally posted by airspoon
The theory that 19 cave-dwelling Arabs

Here we once again have a blatant truther lie. Who says that they were cave dwelling? The truthers, as they refuse to accept reality once again!

Originally posted by dereks

Originally posted by snapperski
the world is screaming for a full public independent international inquiry,

They are? Care to provide proof of that claim?

What most truthers refuse to accept is that with their silly conspiracy theories of:
beam weapons, holographic planes, mini nukes, nanoo nanoo thermite, hush a boom explosives and the old standby, THE JEWS DID IT etc etc. they have zero credibility in the real world!

ONCE again stereotyping anyone who disagrees with the OS,trying to dis-credit all of us as cranks,who belive all these outrageous claims,i think your find most of us are normal people with normal lifes,who see something is very wrong,and just is not rigth,and want to find the truth,and answers to the question's that don't add up,and we don't belive in the no planes theorys or holograms laser beams from space blah blah blah !,but we do belive the story were told don't add up,and all the evidence was removed from the crime scene in amazeing speed,never to be seen again.

the commision which was clearly handpicked,even said they were brickwalled all the way,and they basically avoided building 7.

and as for the world screaming for a full public independent international inquiry,i belive they are,it becomeing more and more common of people in power from different nations openly questioning the OS...so the more people are aware of the oddity of 9/11 the better...

3000 people died that day,and resulted in many many more deaths still going on today from events that happen on 9/11...one of the biggest crimes in history..what are you finding so hard about wanting a full proper investigation,without the handpicked investigators,one that open to public scrutiny.


why do you have a problem with that ????

Originally posted by snapperski
,and all the evidence was removed from the crime scene in amazeing speed,never to be seen again.

Once again we have a truther lie, you obviously have never heard of Fresh Kills, or hanger 17 at JFK....

reply to post by dereks


It's no more of a lie than alien death-rays being a truther theory. If someone doesn't agree with you, they are wrong right? The old "ignore it if it doesn't fit in with your world-view".


--airspoon

reply to post by dereks


Give us a real reason not to have an investigation, not just another truster lie !

You have lied at least 55,000 times on this site, it does not help your credibility...not to mention the fact of being totally negative...and against anything that would put this to rest, instead you cling to your incredibly sad theory that 19 dudes took out some towers so your way of life would be taken away...as if anyone really cares about your way of life.

All you seem to care about is hating muslims, despite your trying so hard to hide it.

Originally posted by GrinchNoMore
You have lied at least 55,000 times on this site,

Poor truther, has to tell lies to try and make a point!

Care to back up your claim, of course you cannot!

reply to post by dereks


oh you mean,the few little bits,that were put there,from them massive buildings...and you always call everyone a lier ?? ...are you a christian by anychance...and ermmm those few bits at the 2 sites you mention,was they not removed from the crime scene before the investigation was done,infact everything was cut,ripped removed,destoryed,before any real investigation was done,not that the investigation anywere near a real investigation...

i'm still waiting for you to tell us,why we shouldnt have a proper independent investigation,with real neutral parties,that have no vested intrest in the outcome,and ties to neocons...

all your saying is everyone is a lier...YAWN !

Hangar 17, where the only known 9/11 evidence still in existence is locked away from public scrutiny.
ermm what happen to the rest of the building..????
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ffa7e003c0c9.jpg[/atsimg]

“During my 33 years as a research physicist at the Naval Research Laboratory, it was my great joy to be able to contribute to the advancement of science without the slightest interference by NRL officials. So I was sickened to read in David Ray Griffin’s assiduously researched book of unequivocal evidence for massive scientific fraud committed by a politicized NIST. I implore President Obama to end the subversion of science at NIST and open a new, unfettered, investigation of the 9/11 attacks.” —David L. Griscom, Fellow of the American Association for the Advancement of Science and of the American Physical Society.

"Based on my engineering knowledge and experience, I fully agree with Dr. Griffin's conclusion that NIST’s report on the collapse of WTC 7 is pseudo-science, containing claims that are misleading and even outright false. Numerous contradictions exposed by outside experts during the public review process were completely ignored, because they did not fit NIST’s contrived explanation.” —Jack Keller, Fellow of the American Society of Civil Engineers; member of the National Academy of Engineering

“A definitive study of what happens when political concerns are permitted to override science and the scientific method. With intellectual finesse worthy of a scientist, Griffin shows that NIST’s WTC 7 report has no scientific credibility. A must read for all concerned with the restoration of science to its ‘rightful place’ in our democracy.”—John D. Wyndham, Ph.D., Physics, Cambridge University; former Research Fellow at the California Institute of Technology

Just a few reasons we need a new full open to public scrutiny independent inquiry,

Originally posted by airspoon

The simple and sad fact of the matter, is that we don't know what happened on that day and therein lies the problem. Nobody knows with any certainty what happened, as there has been a crystal clear effort to obfuscate the truth. OSers or official conspiracy theorists base their entire belief on "the word" of government, a government that has been caught [red-handed] lying on several occasions. Whatever the case and whatever side of the fence you sit on, you simply don't know for a fact what happened or who did it, as there is a clear effort to keep thatproof under wraps, ultimately sewing suspicion on those obfuscating.

--airspoon

Ah, but we do know what happened that day, it's called a coup. The one thing Bush didn't lie about is that "911 changed the world forever". Indeed it did. Our freedom died that day. What kind of ass hat logic is it that says that we were "hated and attacked because of our freedoms" and then takes them away in the name of "National security".

National security isn't the Nation as we perceive it, nor is it We the People (including you Dereks and Dave). It is the acting government. They are the only ones being protected when claims of National security are invoked.

Why haven't they rescinded the National state of emergency yet? 9 years on and we are still under it! WHY?!? Is it so they can continue with their Continuity of Government plans? Where do "We the People" fit in with that type of government? WE DON'T is the sad fact and every election since is simply a sham to let us feel like nothing has changed and somehow America is still run by a government Of the People, For the People and By the People. It isn't.

America is now governed By the Elites, For the Elites. The people have no power and that is why there will never be another investigation into the events of 911. Case closed, Game over.

Willingly or not, the American people have allowed the power to slip from our hands into those of a few who run the shadow government. They are not accountable to us. If there was a time for revolution in the US it is long past. This ship of state is headed for the rocks (intentionally) and we are all watching in horror like some B - movie as our destruction moves closer and closer. Most Americans can sense this, but not understanding what has happened are unable to articulate why and how this is so.

I lost my hope years ago when I realized what really happened on 9/11.
America died, that's what happened, and I mourn each day for her and the dreams of my fellow Americans that died along with it.

Most of all I mourn for my grandchildren who will never know the freedom that I did. 9/11 didn't take that away nor did any "terrorists". It was the Bush administration who destroyed what was left of America.

As Robert E. Lee said after Picket's charge: "It's my fault, it's all my fault" - and it is.
I let them get away with it and that is something I can never forgive myself for.
I was silent for far too long.