I see dead people...with bug out bags

being in the army, i have a huge suggestion:

FOR THE LOVE OF WHATEVER IS HOLY TO YOU PEOPLE BUG "IN" OR STAY IN AND DEFEND YOUR HOME AS LONG AS YOU CAN!!!!

its not realistic to just freak out and leave your home in TSHTF type of emergencies!!! KEEPING A COOL HEAD WILL KEEP YOUR LIFE! please stock up what you can, learn how to maintain your weapon properly and shoot straight and learn how to ration your food and hydrate properly! i cant stress enough how learning how to keep calm in certain situations will save your life! only use your "bug out bag" when there are no other options but to flee. and even when that happens, find a sustaining shelter as soon as you can! i dont care what kind of a woodsman you think you are, you will not survive! there are other things to surviving besides hunting and fishing in a quiet spot!

also, learn your signaling techniques! morse code didnt go out of #ing fashion!!!!

learn how to treat yourself as well as others when it comes to common wounds! (sprained ankles, broken legs and wrists...) this will increase your morale guaranteed!!!!

please learn your plants and the animals that you can and can not eat!

and yes, learn about clouds in the sky and what different ones might be telling you about upcoming weather! WEATHER CAN KILL YOU NO MATTER HOW MUCH FOOD OR WATER YOU HAVE OR HOW GOOD OF A "WOODSMAN" YOU ARE!

and if you HAVE to leave your house, KNOW HOW TO SPOT OBJECTS THAT DONT BELONG IN NATURE!!! anything that is in a perfectly straight line or looks like a perfect circle is not natural!! please train your eyes!!!

and last but not least, dont just shoot at anything that moves!!

I agree with you about everyone thinking they are going to make it through a SHTF...Many have no idea how to shoot, trap, fish, snare, or build a shelter. They sit on there butts and dream of doing things that they see on tv or in the movies. Many even have gear but they have never taken it out and used it or even know how to use it...they don't want to get it dirty.

If you really want to know if your good to go or not in your survival skills, go out camping for a long weekend...a week, carry everything to the site on your back...walk from your house / apt. 1 mile--- 30 miles to where ever your going to camp. Stay there a week with out using the bathhouse or any type of electric or restroom facilities provided by the park or campground.

I bet most would never make it a week or even a long weekend...They would give up because thats just how people are these days...they talk a good talk but they should just put up or shut up....

Buy all the stuff you want and need...I will need resupplied by you when you fail...you could make my life and some others lives a little better by having new gear for us to break in for you once we take it off your dead rotting corpse.

You need to all be aware of the closest radiation shelter in the case of a nuclear attack. Many courthouses, government buildings and churches have those. Keep a stock of dry and canned food and plenty of water as well as medicines, towels, blankets, radio, flashlights, survival kits, panchos and clothing, weapons and a bug out kit if need be. Depends on where you live as far as bugging out. Stay where you are if possible as long as possible.

reply to post by oldschoolsuper star


Nice dude. That is good advice. I grew up on a cattle ranch. Learned to shoot, what to eat, etc all while on the range with the cattle. Surviving for weeks at a time, without walls and roof, stove, etc etc. It is not as easy as people think.

No matter what you do, stay or go, you eventually have to find a place to be stationary. That means some form of fortification. But also with fortification, that means you can again become a target. So...it's tough. What follows is HUGELY important.

Currently, I live in the outskirts of a small town. Basically, a 10 minute walk and I'm in the full wilderness. haha. But I'm still "in the city". It's a great set up. I can bunker down in my house, as I have a "root cellar", with 90 day stock and survival gear for my family.. Initial 90 days is important depending on the event. The only thing left to stock it with is water. It is hidden, and house to house searches would not reveal it.

I also have contingency plan for having to leave the area. Two possible plans depending on whether bridges are down or not. Either way, having to leave involves 6 other families in the immediate area, so that we are a force and can protect against what we know would happen. Being in law enforcement and Corrections, sadly the reality of surviving nature isn't your biggest hurdle. Not even close.

The worst of society will thrive in this situation, and that will be your biggest challenge. Of this, there is no doubt.

You cannot have remorse for these people, and you have to be able to recognize their ability to fool you, con you, take what you have, and kill you. They are FAR better at what they are capable of doing in a SHTF scenario that any of you can know. They, through prison life and criminal life, are far more organized, capable of setting up networks without technology, and have very little remorse for what they WILL do to survive.

People will be your greatest enemy. We are great at adapting to survive, but since we are sheltered, catered to and spoiled, many of us have forgotten through generations, of what it takes to adapt. We change the environments we are in to suit us. Criminals, prisoners, and the like are practicing it every day, in a society that is contrary to THEIR way of life, and they are still doing it. Easily.

This is the most important thing I can tell you to survive some form of shtf.. Numbers. Get organized with others. Find a reasonable plan that will include other families. Each that can contribute something to some form of commune that you would be able to fortify. Like mechanic, gardener, carpenter etc... But most of all.. Be a force. Criminals are lazy, and will attack the weak first.

reply to post by xEphon

The biggest problem I see with assumptions is that most assume we're all talking about city people. We use electricity for lights and entertainment. Without it we'll use kerosene lamps and actually learn to talk to each other

A good many of us already live in the sticks and live now as we mean to go on. If the power went down today we'd be just fine. If some city got nuked most of us just need to wait out the fallout - there are many ways to make a shelter that will sustain you safely, even within your existing house. We have good line of site for incoming vehicles and folks on foot and a band of neighbors all willing to guard the area. For those who envision zombie outbreaks I live far enough away that I reckon neighbors and the nearest town of about 2000 would be our biggest threat, but I live in good ole boy country which means every Tom, Dick and Harry will be out with a gun like the original Dawn of the Dead movie . Our BOL is within walking distance and its already prepared and stocked with everything except what's in the BOB and our guns. If after all that we don't survive I hope someone is able to find and use all I have laid back.

slimpikkens:
That book you mentioned-Lights Out (by David Crawford, I think) is no longer available online. The author got a book deal to have it published so he had to remove the freebie. Some people have it on pdf form so those that can't wait for the release date can ask around.

fernz:
(Hope I spelled that right...) Before shooting all "invaders" on your property, you might consider setting up some sort of interview process (if you have enough people to post guards on your property). There may be some really useful, talented, helpful and skilled people coming through your area that your group could benefit from. If your group is lacking a medic, it would be a shame to shoot one that came right to you. Just a thought. Anyone bugging out will probably have a weapon so if you just start shooting, odds are they'll shoot back. Point being-
don't just assume everyone who walks across your land is a parasite.

OP:
I have a BOB that I have used a few times. I've had housefires, tornadoes and other situations that required I leave NOW! Having a change of clothes, toothbrush, MRE and a few useful items makes a huge difference in your morale when your house is burning down and you're standing out in the yard watching it happen in your pajamas in 20 degree weather at 0300 hours. No, having a BOB won't ensure your survival but it can certainly help and when you're in a survival situation every little bit helps.

I wrote a thread on survivalist mindset some time ago (if you're interested in my thoughts on the subject).
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Please, I hope that you all writing here will take this as a serious observation and question.

I am as completely opposite to the lot of you as can possibly be. I find it interesting but curious that people who have never personally experienced any kind of a serious SHTF scenario in their entire lifetime, would nevertheless spend so much time, energy and money on preparing for one -- as if it was inevitable and just around the corner. To me, that is strange.

Why would you prepare for something that has never happened? I understand that there is a lot of doom and gloom discussion on this site, but I get the impression that just about everyone in the USA is expecting everything to fall apart, not just sometime in the future, but any day now. Why?

Every generation has had its problems and overcame them for better or worse. In my youth it was the Cuban missile crisis and soviet nuclear threat. What I don't understand is why is today's situation seen to be so impossible that so many are going to such extents to prepare for total collapse and Armagedden?

Ok, I am not American. Maybe that is part of it. I suffer here in Canada in relative peace and tranquility and I don't worry about the end coming any time soon. I live in the city and don't own a gun. Like I said, I am opposite to you guys, my neighbors. I don't understand your fear.

What makes today any different than any other in history, with lots of problems but no Armagedden. Please clue me in if there is something concrete that I am missing.

I hope that everyone here has plans for both staying put and yet also bugging out. The situation will dictate what you will be doing.

I know that I would like to be able to stay put and live off what I have...however it might not be that way...you need to be able to do both to maximize your shot at surviving whatever the SHTF senerio is.

Stashing goods and provisions is nice but they might be gone or the area might be to dangerous to go to.

Something that has always bothered me about bug out bags and ALL of you here, is if your fleeing an area and wanting to get away, why would you worry about wistles and strobe lights and all the signaling equipment you say to have...isn't that an oxy moron??? Your wanting to hide and not be found but you take things to signal for a rescue? or to be found....I understand if your camping and you get injured or if your NOT in an evecaution or bug out situation for a SHTF but for a SHTF?? I don't get it.

Just know and use your gear and your head.

Originally posted by saltdog
Something that has always bothered me about bug out bags and ALL of you here,

im sick of you, too.

Originally posted by saltdog
is if your fleeing an area and wanting to get away, why would you worry about wistles and strobe lights and all the signaling equipment you say to have...isn't that an oxy moron???

are you telling me that if at some point in a SHTF scenario somebody was using morse code to say something you would be better off not knowing what theyre saying? dont abandon the basics, its all you have. if you know morse code maybe youd know to stay away from some people and attract the attention of others. its all in how you use it.

S+F A very interesting point.........But not entirely true is it?.......Fallout(Fallout3 etc etc) for instance......I have a rifle I know how to use it....a sniper rifle actually for sport and home protection, no I don't live in America. I live in the UK and as for the above mentioned game, I know that if the Crap Hits The Fan the first ones to go are the loners in their homesteads. Guns, Food all in one place, the first point of call for the apocalyptic raiding party, who had the intelligence to organise a group of survivors and to return to the primal urge....Hunter Gathering....It is our first reaction. You're in your homestead all "mistakenly" safe, what's your first thought.....Burt at the house down the street has bought it (Dead) you know he had weaponry and a healthy appetite, what are you going to do homestead guy? Hunter Gathering!
Except Homestead guy will be the target in the end.
The only successful way to survive is to organise a militia that can protect your home growing activities in fact you will need more than a little patch in your garden to survive. Knowledge is key (e.g Crop Rotation).....Do you know when to plant certain crops, when to harvest and about pollination, creating your own seeds?
Survival takes more than being secure...........it's just an element in survival as a whole. So I would NEVER discount knowledge learnt in an FPS game all be it theoretical.
Try playing Fallout and its successors you may find it covers some of the scenarios you may have missed when primal human nature kicks in...

It's something I've always considered. . .why a bugout bag if there's nowhere to bugout to? It's a perfectly sensible question. So. . .say you're looking out your front door and notice 15-20 vehicles approaching your house and they appear to be govt., or are cops or whatever. Now, it doesn't matter if you're a criminal, or they want to come silence you for an awesome comment you made on ATS that is sure to incite a riot whcih compromises the safety of John McCain's high school boyfriend's dog. Either way, they're coming for you. So. . .you totally prepared because you got a bag! Survival food, weapons, tools, whatever. So now it's bugout time!

I guess what you'd then try to do is get out the back door before they approach the house? Because once you're out of that house and running through the streets or woods with your bag. . .they're never gonna find you. Not in a million years.

I'm sure I'm leaving out some important factor to "bugging out" that makes it completely awesome and a smart thing to do. We have to remember, we're only dealing with a govt. that either has or will inject us with IR chips to track us. That same govt. is allegedly in the process of killing or tagging all the wildlife so that we can't hunt them or fish. The govt. that's going to project the image of Jeus returning, all the while customizing audio projected directly into our minds. It's only the government that has been successful in hiding thousands of years of evidence of extraterrestrial evidence. . .it's only the government who can plan and execute all of the events surrounding 9-11 and as well, killed JFK and Abraham Lincoln. . . .so yeah. . .grab your bag and bug out. . .they'll never find you.

I'll take my chances in the thicket by a lake - silent, easy to capture food, no need to build a fire to cook it if things get really scary, easy enough to stay mobile with the woods and nature being a better early warning system than ADT.

To be real, I hope you are prepared for the bears, raccoons, opossums, snakes, poisonous spiders, rain, snow, hail and wind, just to name a few. Oh, and angry landowners who will shoot trespassers.

PS... I have a bag prepared if only absolutely necessary and I pray each time I add to it that I never have to use it.

I'm actually in the camp that has a "Bug out" bag to get to my pre-determined shtf destination, which is easy to secure and relatively isolated.

Luckily, my wonderful grandparents have a small brick home with their own garden, well water supply, and emergency generators only about 45minutes away via car. What's better is I'm in a relatively small town, but they are even farther from civilization, with the nearest village only being 200 people and the nearest towns of any real size (20,000) being 20 and 30 minutes away by car.

In-case we cannot get a hold of gas for the generators, we have also an ancient wood burner. Oh, and my grandmother being frugal and my grandfather being a great depression survivor, they have a massive storage cellar loaded every season with self-canned good.

Though the hard part will be getting there, as the back roads will probably be choked with city kids after they clog the highways trying to get home in a panic.

Luckily, closer to their/my permanent home it gets more and more off the beaten path for getting to any area of merit
--
I have no problewm admitting it could be hard as hell to even make it that far in a shtf disaster scenario, but atleast I have means to try, and I feel that is the most important aspect.

Originally posted by DreamerOracle
S+F A very interesting point.........But not entirely true is it?.......Fallout(Fallout3 etc etc) for instance......I have a rifle I know how to use it....a sniper rifle actually for sport and home protection, no I don't live in America. I live in the UK and as for the above mentioned game, I know that if the Crap Hits The Fan the first ones to go are the loners in their homesteads. Guns, Food all in one place, the first point of call for the apocalyptic raiding party, who had the intelligence to organise a group of survivors and to return to the primal urge....Hunter Gathering....It is our first reaction. You're in your homestead all "mistakenly" safe, what's your first thought.....Burt at the house down the street has bought it (Dead) you know he had weaponry and a healthy appetite, what are you going to do homestead guy? Hunter Gathering!
Except Homestead guy will be the target in the end.
The only successful way to survive is to organise a militia that can protect your home growing activities in fact you will need more than a little patch in your garden to survive. Knowledge is key (e.g Crop Rotation).....Do you know when to plant certain crops, when to harvest and about pollination, creating your own seeds?
Survival takes more than being secure...........it's just an element in survival as a whole. So I would NEVER discount knowledge learnt in an FPS game all be it theoretical.
Try playing Fallout and its successors you may find it covers some of the scenarios you may have missed when primal human nature kicks in...

see, this is truly saddening. somebody basing this type of situation off of a GAME! why dont you try to pull off this theoretical bull$%&! in the real world without a joystick? it wont happen for you, trust me.

To the guy who questioned and insulted the OP as to why they started this topic: I think the OP did us all a service starting this topic, even as I disagree them.

We need these discussions, and we need to keep childish insults off of ATS. Even as there are some goofy posts on here, there have been some VERY valuable discussions because the OP started this topic.

Thank You kadyr80!

That said: some posters on here don't understand what a BOB is supposed to accomplish.

People, the whole purpose of a BOB is to either get you to your pre-selected place to hunker down, or give you basic tools to survive if you have to suddenly bail out of your shelter.

Nobody in their right mind is going to leave a perfectly fine shelter to go sit in the woods, not without some darned good reason!

But IF that shelter is compromised, and you HAVE to flee, that's when a BOB is vital - it gives you the tools to get to next shelter on your list, be that another building or some spot in the woods.

If the SHTF, you need options to both stay in place or to get the hell outta dodge.

It's not either/or: if the SHTF I want (and have) both options at my disposal.

reply to post by wayno


Why would we prepare for somethign that has never happened you ask? Why do you carry homeowners and auto insurance? Has your house ever caught fire or been in a tornado and you've lost everything? Probably not but you are prepared in case it ever does happen. The monetary investment is very small before an event happens but is invaluable when you need it. You weren't in the Scouts were you. Be prepared, it's the motto. : )

Originally posted by Divine Strake
It's only the government that has been successful in hiding thousands of years of evidence of extraterrestrial evidence. . .it's only the government who can plan and execute all of the events surrounding 9-11 and as well, killed JFK and Abraham Lincoln. . . .so yeah. . .grab your bag and bug out. . .they'll never find you.

You give the government way to much credit. You realize the government is not a single being but a multitude of individuals. It only takes a few to put a crimp in or expose a plan as large as you pointed out.

Even tho no-one has chosen to help me understand why you all are so sure you need these plans at all, I am still here. I am certain that if the world fails economically and politically, those who live a relatively primitive lifestyle now will hardly notice; unless nuclear fallout gets them.

Just speaking hypothetically, it makes sense to store extras at home. It makes sense to stay at home, once prepared as long as it is safe to do so. It makes sense to have an optional place to go to once home is unsafe. It makes a whole lot of sense to not go it alone, but to be part of some group, where there are enough people with varying skills to cover all the need areas. There is safety in numbers.

But all of this is hypothetical, and given the indicators will never be anything but. I don't forsee any of you ever having to resort to any of these. But like I said in my earlier post, if there is some clear reason for all of this, please, I am all ears.

Originally posted by Dantas
reply to post by wayno

 

Why would we prepare for somethign that has never happened you ask? Why do you carry homeowners and auto insurance? Has your house ever caught fire or been in a tornado and you've lost everything? Probably not but you are prepared in case it ever does happen. The monetary investment is very small before an event happens but is invaluable when you need it. You weren't in the Scouts were you. Be prepared, it's the motto. : )

Actually all of those things happen all the time. You know that its only a matter of time before your number is up and it could happen to you (me), and so, yes, I pay for insurance. I don't pay for flood insurance because I know my risk of that is negligible.

All of this SHTF stuff is pure speculation and hasn't happened to any civil society in my lifetime (to which it is quite dry behind the ears I might add). Therefore, I see no reason to fear it nor invest any money. I do think about it mildly, and plan subtle strategy but I sure don't lose any sleep over it.

I agree with the OP 100%.

Many of these members who think that they are going to be able to live off the land and throw a fishing line out into the lake in order to sustain make do are sadly deluding themselves.

The biggest problem with running is when you come to the realization that there isn't truly anywhere to run to. Many a criminal has found this out much to their dismay, and that's when all resources such as food, travel, fuel, are available to them.

Probably the first thing to go when the SHTFan is going to be your electricity. Your phone lines will go a few hours later once the telephone central office batteries die.

Now, no more communication through the internet. In fact, at first you wont even know to call a relative in another state to find out all is well because you probably will only think that it is a local affair and just try and ride it out like we normally do. It is when that second day arrives and now the phones are out that you will begin to feel the fear. Once that food in your refrigerator starts to smell you will need to hop in the car to find that there is already a free for all at the supermarket.

Perhaps the police department will set up order there. Perhaps they will be too busy trying to defend their loved ones to even report to work.

Gas pumps will cease to function. How far will you get in order to bug out with your little pitiful bag of water and nuts? Cell phones wont work either. No more computer, no more phones, no more television to inform you, Just a steady waning down of resources and a ramping up of anxiety coupled with growing looting and violence.

And what if this happens in the dead of the winter? How far will you get before you die of exposure? Building a fire in the winter time is not easy folks. Especially when your wood is wet due to snow and your priming material (leaves, stems, etc.) are buried too.

Some members have mentioned that hitting targets with a gun is hard. Not only that but ammunition is heavy people. How much can you carry with you?

Has anyone here ever seen a roving angry mob before? One that's looking for food and there you are all be your lonesome with a bag of food? I'd much rather have the defensive advantage with a mob in a home than be caught out in the open having to negotiate one.

Then there's the problem of bugging out and winding up several towns away from your home. Will you know the people in this town? Will you be out of your familiar surroundings far more prone to getting lost or disorientated? Will these strangers help you out when your bug out bag becomes empty? I'd rather take my chances with my neighbors who are far more likely to band together out of necessity, rather than relying on the goodwill of strangers who are trying to survive themselves at the moment. You the stranger from another town will rank dead last on their hospitality list I guarantee you.

Now, as to foraging for food and hunting. Guess what everyone else is going to be doing initially? How long will it take for wild life in the country to be wiped out and I mean wiped out! So then you'll be stuck fishing for food. But so will everybody else. Lakes could become areas that are contested by hungry crowds who don't wish to take on another mouth. So you will be relegated to rivers.

Not to mention what will happen if Martial Law is declared. In which case you will be considered a bandit or looter if you are found away from where your driver's license says you live.

Bugging out to where I ask? To the countryside? Are you going to pack a tent in your bug out bag too? Once your car runs out of gas it's shoe leather express from there on out. Everyone you come into contact with at that point will not know you and therefore consider you a threat whether right or wrong.

I'd much rather have a cache of food, water, shelter to take my chances in. Not to mention that I can store all the ammunition that I need there and not have to lug it on my back everywhere I go.

People who lived through the complete economic collapse of Argentina have this to say:
Initially you have the opportunists (mobs) who go around stealing everything they can get their hands on. But eventually everyone starts getting pissed and these people start getting killed by those who are defending their homes, communities, and/or by the authorities. Because eventually order will be restored again, one way or another as they found out.

It is the first initial anarchy and chaos that you have to survive and that is the key here. If you can make it past the first 2 months then the odds are in your favor of making it for the long term. You will not be able to survive on your own in the middle of the brush when it is peppered with hunters who are doing the same thing or foraging for food which you are now encroaching upon.

You can easily store enough food/water and defensive tools to ward of thieves in a place of your own recognized surroundings and feel the necessary psychological justification in order to shoot to kill if your house is being attacked.