The Rite of an Exorcist

reply to post by Gradius Maximus


OK i'll play it your way then.

I know what I know through direct experiences. I've been attacked and stabbed at by people who are possessed by otherworldly creatures, I've witnessed and supported through possessions where people speak in other languages and barely resemble anything human

What makes you believe they're possed by other worldly creatures? and how do they barely resemble anything human? Do they morph or something?

Mentally ill persons still resemble something human, these possessed individuals did not

Again its easy to say this but in what ways do people who are "possesed" differ from a human acting as though their possesed?

It sounds like a book, I dont bear the burden of proof because I am not trying to prove anything

Im not asking for proof because that would be impossable over a forrum, just facts that back up your claims.

As for qualifications, some would insist you need spiritual power.

What is spiritual power and why have some people got it and others havent? Were all the same are'nt we?

To deny its existence is your choice, but to be open to the reality of it requires more then skepticism.

Im not denying anything, ive weighed up what ive seen and read on the subject and i have no doubt that people believe they're possed so strongly that they display all the "signs" of a possesion. Which as it go's snuggly fits in to a category. If you shout a lot, sometimes in another language, start moving abnormaly and acting like your not yourself. Then hey presto, your a class A possesion case. Or your displaying the behaviours of a certain illness.

I choose the latter.

Theres absolutely nothing about possetion cases thats paranormal or supernatural. I bet if i wanted to. I could convince someone i was possesed. Id just have to believe it enough to live out what people expect a possesed person to display. Where people get the notion that the person has been overcome by an evil demon from is beyond me. I think its just a primative attempt to explain these symptoms (probably by some holy person but i cant be sure of that) and people just go on believing it.

Your cup is very full.

I know because I know, sorry, but when my heart says this person is mentally ill, they are - and on the rare occasions when my heart says someone is possessed, they are.

Facts to give you...Sorry, its not that sort of gig. If you want to see it, look for it, its a personal experience.

As for spiritual power, yes everyone is similar. we are all a canvas from which a beautiful work of art can be painted. Some of us have learned to focus on different colors in our painting and thus can interperit a different reality. Spiritual poetency is separate and different then for instance, a higher understanding of mathematics. What is your chosen specialty?

your statements confuse me:

Im not denying anything,

Theres absolutely nothing about possetion cases thats paranormal or supernatural.

Perhaps you should seek out these phenomena beyond the confines of a book, search with an open mind my friend - They are there waiting for you.

Before you deny anything, remember that leading scientists were once so certain that the world was flat.

We are and always will be in a perpetual state of infancy, let us be humble.


-G

reply to post by Gradius Maximus


So you refuse to answer any of my questions then. I wonder why that is?

To say something is true simply because you believe its so, then try to persuade me that your beliefs are right and mine are wrong. shows you to be "close minded" as you say. How do you expect me to go out and experience something that i dont believe, is what people say it is. I could sit there and watch the whole thing unfold in front of me and yet it still would'nt change my mind because, as ive said in my previous posts. Theres nothing happening thats in any way paranormal or super natural. Thats exactly why you cant answer any of my questions.

So before you acuse anyone of being close minded. You should first consider the fact that such an extreme does,nt exist. My mind is in a constant state of flux and so can neither be fully open or closed.

I think resorting to some kind of personal attack indicates a lack of real facts, and shows that your only trying to change my mind on this to satisfy your own ego.

Guess what? You might just be wrong. Consider that.

I always wondered why none of this is ever video documented. I mean if there is really evil entities out there, capable of possessing people, then why would people not want to prove it to the world, so people really know of the dangers? Seems odd to me. My mother's cousin was supposedly possessed and committed murder, Not really sure if I believe it or not. Here is an archived article about it:

www.people.com...

I answered your questions to the best of my ability.

Everything is true, all possibilities exist.

I did not say you were close minded, I suggested searching with an open mind. Observing something new requires it.

This was not an attack and it surely was not personal. There are no facts I can give you, there are no vials of demon juice lying around that will tell the story in physical terms.

I can't be wrong if everything is true

Again my friend, seek out these phenomena if you want to know, crawl into the dark places, sit with the people you label mentally ill, look into the eyes and tell yourself what you see. Is it a sick man? Probably.

Keep looking, and one day you may be surprised if you find something different from another world.

Blessings,


-G

reply to post by Gradius Maximus


OK once more from the begining. Ive been keeping an open mind from the start you just have'nt opened my mind too, anything.

You said that people who are possesed, look different to normal people. You've seen this with your own eyes so surely you can relay what you've experienced. right? This is a simple request that requires no proof. Just a description.

I just wanted say to you to be careful what you want.Deamons do exist,if you dare them they will come to you! I know some people...its not importain now,just be smart,dont push them,they will come to you and they will become your worst nightmare,like i said i know some pople that said deamons and ghosts dont exist and they continued pushing them until they got convinced oposite...If you are not pope,playing exorcist is not the smartest idea...guys leave that stuff before is to late,trust me

Originally posted by KrypticCriminal
reply to post by Gradius Maximus

 

OK once more from the begining. Ive been keeping an open mind from the start you just have'nt opened my mind too anything.

You said that people who are possesed, look different to normal people. You've seen this with your own eyes so surely you can relay what you've experienced. right? This is a simple request that requires no proof. Just a description.

edit on 4/11/10 by KrypticCriminal because: (no reason given)

I'll replay 2 instances for you.


The first, I was escorting a man home (I thought it was a man) He was part of a group I belong to that delves into the knowing of spiritual learning. I was acompanied by 2 women highly experienced in possessions. I knew something was up, he stunk of it.

I walked down to get some food and bring it back up into the room, we were preparing to leave the man at his home, safe and sound. One moment he was eating food with us, laughing, sharing stories, he walked into the kitchen, I heard a glass break, I went to see whats up, and there he stood completly naked, but it was the body of a woman, in her hand she carried a knife and began advancing towards one of the 2 women who acompanied me. Her eyes were out of focus and was litterally going to stab her. The woman came to face her and it was as if a battle of wills occurered and my friend screamed "SO YOU WANT TO HURT ME!?" The man/woman blinked in disbeleif, and in that moment my friend struck her back into the wall and disarmed them.

I grappled him/her down and watched as the consciousness shifted between the 2 beings. One who was a woman, scared and confused. The other was a man, angry and would have killed us gleefully. Looking into my eyes he/she cackled visciously "So you're here to burn me are you!?" She then proceded to try and seduce the women and myself saying "I want sex, NOW!" my friend replied to her/him "Ah yes...but you forgot to ask us if we wanted to have sex" To man/woman looked extremly confused, as if this was some kind of trick question, then burst out laughing and tried to strangle me"


So maybe you're wondering, is this person mentally ill? Borderline psycotic? Criminally Insane? Demonic possession? You be the judge, eventually whatever this being was that was within her is now gone, and shes a woman again...and hopefully I never see her again. Ick.



Second encounter was during a ceremony, we had a new participant who I got the creeps from the very beginning. halfway though the ceremony I saw his figure running on all 4s into the darkest part of the building, I've never seen a grown man run on all 4s as fast as he did. When I caught up with him there was a smell, a stink like nothing I have ever smelled before, it made you gag. He turned to face me with his teeth bared and hissed.

I asked him the same question I always ask in these situations "Who are you" Laughter prosisted, sick twisted laughter. "What is your name....Laughter....What is your NAME....Laughter....TELL ME YOUR NAME...He started to twitch in his neck towards his shoulder and his arms contorted and he looked into my eyes and all I saw in him was an empty shell as he screamed out "I am LgglgIeeIooonn!!"

The more experienced members came over and dragged him into a room where he stayed for the rest of the evening, when I came back to check on him, he was a little boy crying for his mother, asking where he was, what happened, the smell was gone and his eyes had become a soft baby blue color.

Possessions happen, rarely are they documented, but they are out there and if you look for them.

You will find them.


-G

reply to post by Gradius Maximus


See if you had of said all this from the begining, we could of had a great discusion. Obviously i only have your word that this is true, but i'll believe you as ive no reason to think your a liar, so now we can move on.

Apart from being really freaky. The first one is definatley weird. Was it only you who saw him/her this way or did all of your party. Obviously a mass experience would rule out the possability that it was just your interpretation. Ive seen videos where peoples physical features have changed, while doing research on this subject, but the change was'nt trans genderal. More a disfigurement of the person features. As though they were using muscles that you usualy dont see in such a way. Is there any possability it could have been that?

The second one, is more what i mentioned before. The person displays things that dont look human. Yet are well within a persons capability to display if you know what i mean. The rest is just interpretation. Its interesting that you mention your group. At the risk of making you sound like a devil worshiper or something. Do you or this group, try to make contact with spirits in anyway? As for the smell, ive actually experienced phantom smells on sessions ive done. Nothing serious just me and my friends trying to catch evidence while using a oiuja board. So i can believe that no problems.

You see, i actualy believe in ghosts, yet ive found nothing that convinces me of demonic possesion as of yet. This may be down to limited knowlege as you say, but all the cases ive studied have showed nothing beyond the realm of human possability. If i witnessed or even saw evidence of a trans gender, or any kind of full transformation then id have to rethink. I can only go on what ive seen.

Originally posted by predator0187
reply to post by hangedman13

 

I think exorcisms are bull anyways.

The majority of demonic possessions are prepubescent children, as with most poltergeists. No scientist is really sure what causes them but they do happen.

An exorcism is not the solution to the problem, even the real story behind "the exorcist" is embellished. The priest there never thought it was a demonic possession, and if you hear stories of the boy beforehand he was a weird one.

I think all of these "bad things" that happen are peoples energy and when you start focusing on bad things, more of them happen because your paying attention to them.

So to me the idea of an exorcist is moot, because they're useless anyway.

Thanks for a cool thread.

Pred...

You can think they're bunk...that's fine... but I know first hand that there are things in this world that are unexplainable, in fact we had a Evil presence in my house, I saged and did the protection oil in crosses on all my windows and doors and My children will tell you that it works, maybe something different than any exorcism per se but same concept. My children and a friend saw the evil presence masking itself as a frightened young girl in a gown (yeah I know it is cliche but this is what they told me, and I trust them they don't make up stories!) any way it tried to touch my window trying to get in, and it pulled back really fast as if it had gotten hurt and my daughter saw blood coming from the place it tried to touch the window with, the hands!!!! So I am here to tell you, it IS REAL !!! VERY REAL!!!!

And if that old religious beleif is proven, then to me, excorcism is true, as well, you see the answer does not lie in the act itself....but in the hands of the faith of the practitioner; your excorcism, as well as cleansing, ritual, spell, prayer, whatever lies in the hands of the practitiioner's faith...period!

reply to post by KrypticCriminal


What qualifications has a trained exorcist got that i havent got? The fact that they follow a certain faith.


Alot, I don't mean to sound rude by saying that but it's the truth. You can't take your "Average Joe" to a possessed person and hand him a book of rites even if he is of that faith. You have to know without a doubt in your mind that what you're doing is right. And without going over the Rite of exorcism hundreds of time there is a HUGE chance that you can screw up, lose focus that the "Possessor" will just laugh at you.

reply to post by TKDRL


Not all people can truly deal with that sort of thing. If a demon showed it self to a mass of people in Time Square with irrefutable proof that it was a demon there would be chaos and panic. Simple as that.

reply to post by bosito


Why is it only the demons can play this game? Why doesn't angels come and possess evil #ers committing mass murder, and creating wars? Why would god stand by and let a demon mess with the free will he supposedly gave us? Makes no sense at all.

reply to post by TKDRL


I would assume that If angels do possess people, it would be to maintain a balance that has been lost.

There has been many times in ceremony where I have felt benevolent entities working through me in very profound ways.

No this was a woman, who was pretending to be a man - she thought she was a man. Everyone saw this and the only morphing was in the facial features.

The group I mentioned is intended for shamanic journeying. Many people show up and have profound experiences with us, and very rarely we get people who are already possessed, or have opened enough doors and made enough pacts that the journey can manifest the demon into their body, We really dislike dealing with these cases as we're not a spiritual hospital, its more of a dedication to personal developement.

We dont attempt any contact with spirits, but the spirits are always there regardless and quite often during the ceremonies interactions can occur, VERY rarely do the interactions contain malevolent entities. Positive reigns supreme if the space is sacred.

Yeah smell is huge. The 5 senses are designed to interact with the spirit world more so then what mainstream media would have you beleive. Feel the space, smell the air, watch with eyes unfocused, note the taste. The spirit world speaks in many languages most would not expect.

You're wise to know that these occurences are extremly rare, in regards to the mentally ill, I have the feeling that 99% of them while they are not possessed, they are still interacting with certain aspects of the spirit world much more intensely then we ever could and this makes them appear absolutely insane, but I assure you, their reality is all too real. People who hear voices and kill people or themselves are likely tapped into to something we cannot truly comprehend and it is not as simple as a brain chemical imbalance.

i was an altar boy within the catholic faith from a very young age. i attended and assisted
in many rites within the acceptable parameters of normal church running. i would speak to the
priest on many topics and he give me valuable knowledge in many areas. i came across the rite
of excorcism around the age of ten and enquired about this ritual. the priest was very fluent
in this area and we talked for what seemed like hours on the matter. he informed me that a case
of possible possession was taking place in the carlisle area of the uk. he said there were
preliminaries that were being attended to prior to the decision to invoke the rite ie permissions
from the bishop/diocese. i got to the point and asked him to submit a request for my attendance.
i was seriously curious about the matter. a few weeks later he informed me my request to the bishop had
been denied through safety concerns. i continued to be an altar boy for approx 2 years and decided
i needed to widen my parameters on this and many other subjects.
Gradius Maximus, i hear what you are saying and it resonated. i would agree not all cases are down
to possession but you just never know. i think i have enough experience and knowledge to smell
one when in the presence of. to all on here who are skeptical on this subject, i respect your position
however when you have been in the presence of a malevolent energy/force, the knowledge reveals
to you that your nuts are well and truely on the table.
to all those that are curious i would say be careful and conduct yourself in a manner as if you are walking
on eggshells. to those that think it is a crock of poo, stay safe and well because you just never know!
f

reply to post by bosito


That still does'nt answer my question. What qualifies someone to remove demons from a possesed body.

"A lot" is'nt an answer. So would you care to ellaborate.

reply to post by Gradius Maximus


Well, as it go's ive toyed with the idea that some mental illness could some how be linked with the person openening themselves up to something, that they dont understand. I suppose that could be the spirit world, and its something im definatley going to do some more research in to. As with possesion cases, i think it will be hard to tell whether thier behaviour is down to illness or other influences of some kind.

Theres still a lot of questions over possesions, for me personaly. I admit that i may be over sceptical at times, but its served me well so far. Im not sure how i would get the oppotunity to witness one first hand, without joining a group or faith that deals with them. I prefer to be on the outside looking in, rather than on the inside, were my judgment may be twisted by personal allegiances or relationships.

I guess im just going to have to take peoples, like yourselfs word for it. Untill i get something more than that word and the occational documented case.

Peace.

reply to post by TKDRL


What I think you need to understand is this...If I become possessed and the possessor kills someone am I responsible in Gods eyes...Do I know he answer...no I know what I believe and it makes sense.


Second..remember Lucifer took 1/3 the hosts of heaven with him. That means angels that were good are now "Evil" or "Fallen" They can possess people...as well as "Good" angels or angels that are still in Gods grace.

If someone is possessed by a pre-Christian "Entity" They do not answer to God or recognize Jesus or obey him.
When that happens an angel can "Fight" for the body of the possessed in a "Winner takes all" then once the "Entity" loses the angel gives ownership of the body back.

reply to post by KrypticCriminal


I will restate by previous post....."You have to know without a doubt in your mind that what you're doing is right. And without going over the Rite of exorcism hundreds of time there is a HUGE chance that you can screw up, lose focus that the "Possessor" will just laugh at you."


It's mainly the training. I'm not talking about with swords or magical spells that throw fire balls and entities. An Exorcist know the ritual for an exorcism front to back. Memorizing the rite is the first thing you do.

Second there are things you need to know...like what questions to ask the possessor....and things not to ask...like when are you doing to die where is the lost city of Atlantis......and so on...


Once you walk into the room of the possessed if you are not 100% sure of what you are doing you will fail, ontop of that you can become ill both mentally and physically.