Anti-Islamic Bigotry in Dead Sea Scrolls Research

Originally posted by adjensen

Michael, who appears to have gone missing, claims that the Teacher of Righteousness IS Jesus (time differential not mattering when you add reincarnation to the mix,)

(Sigh)

What I find so 'interesting' about your comments is that they are lies created out of whole cloth. You merely make up these assertions without having carefully read either my notes or my book at all.

Your point is to win some argument, even if you have to lie in order to do that.

But this is not at all surprising. This is the way of the world.

Someone receives a Knowledge of Truth and people come out of the woodwork doing everything they possibly can to contradict that Knowledge on the basis of no information whatsoever; or at least to distract people from that Truth.

But, while the purpose of conveying the Knowledge of Truth is to attain Peace and Justice between people on this planet; the goal of those who contradict and attempt to distract from that Truth is to engender duality, conflict, hatred, violence and genocide.

I have never said that the Teacher of Righteousness is Jesus. In fact, I specifically deny that assumption or assertion by the other Dead Sea Scrolls researchers.

The Dead Sea Scrolls researchers assert out of thin air that the Thanksgiving Hymns were written by the Teacher of Righteousness; the entire purpose of which is to categorically prevent the possibility that Jesus had written the Thanksgiving Hymns. There is no evidence whatsoever for this assertion. Not only that, such an assertion is based upon the failure to understand that the "Sadduceean" Teacher of Righteousness would NOT have written about either the "Vision of Knowledge", nor would he have had any understanding of the Doctrine of "resurrection" as a Doctrine of 'Rebirth', as is the clear perspective of the author of 1QH. There is a quite fundamental difference in perspective between the 'Sadduceean' and the 'Sadducee' perspective compared to the perspective of the author of 1QH. It would be like saying that Mother Theresa was a member of the Green Berets.

[Oh, by the way, have you ever heard of 4QMMT (miq'sat ma aseh ha torah--if my memory serves me correctly)?

It is a Sadduceean rather than a Sadducee document.

There is a fundamental difference in both TONE and CONTENT between 4QMMT and 1QH.

If you can't recognize that, then you can't differentiate between Einstein's General Theory of Relativity and Dr. Seuss's Cat in the Hat]

Clearly, you do not recognize how utterly ridiculous such an assertion is to anyone who has even a minimal Knowledge of the Thanksgiving Hymns.

So, you are not only speculating on the basis of no Knowledge whatsoever; you are specifically LYING about what I have said about the Thanksgiving Hymns.

And, of course, Jesus said that "Satan is the father of lies." But, apparently, because he said that some 2000 years ago you no longer consider it to be relevant.

but, while there are those who say, like you, that the Teacher of Righteousness is attributed with similarities to Jesus (though being crucified by himself was not one of them,) the majority of scholarly works that I've seen do not view the Dead Sea Scrolls to be Christian in anything but a tangential manner (given that both are related to sects of Judaism, this would be inevitable.)

This makes me change my 'mind' about what kind of books should be thrown at you.

In lieu of all of those I have listed before, I would choose a dictionary.

Apparently, you have NO understanding of the meaning of the word censorship.

If something is censored, that means that you have never read it before...

Because no one would publish it; or, if it was published, not one single newspaper, not one single organ of the media, not one single book-reviewer anywhere on this planet would write a book review of it.

Taken as they seem to be, the texts of a long dead Jewish offshoot, the scrolls bear up to reasonable scrutiny. Attempting to turn them around to be something that they are not generally results in confusing and contradictory findings.

"Reasonable scrutiny" being only what the official Jewish and Christian researchers say--no Muslim research being allowed.

"Confusing and contradictory" being defined as anthing which contradicts what official Judaism and Christianity have to say about those scrolls.

I refer to it as the 'argument based upon Wikipedia', which rests on the assertion, as a Revelation come down from Mt. Sinai, that the Truth is already completely known, that there is no Truth which we do not already know, and that, for eternal time, there will never be the emergence of any other Truth which is not already universally known.

Mi cha el

Originally posted by Michael Cecil

Originally posted by adjensen

Michael, who appears to have gone missing, claims that the Teacher of Righteousness IS Jesus (time differential not mattering when you add reincarnation to the mix,)

I have never said that the Teacher of Righteousness is Jesus. In fact, I specifically deny that assumption or assertion by the other Dead Sea Scrolls researchers.

.. snip ..

So, you are not only speculating on the basis of no Knowledge whatsoever; you are specifically LYING about what I have said about the Thanksgiving Hymns.

Yes, you are correct, and I apologize for misstating your point of view. My confusion arose out the the fact that your claim as to the authorship of the work in question is the minority view (a minority of one) and I forgot your rationalization. My other points still stand, regardless of this, though.

This makes me change my 'mind' about what kind of books should be thrown at you.

In lieu of all of those I have listed before, I would choose a dictionary.

Apparently, you have NO understanding of the meaning of the word censorship.

I would suggest that you read said dictionary before throwing it, because you confuse being ignored with being suppressed. You are not censored, Michael, you are ignored because your findings are wrong, being based on a biased view point.

You are not being censored, you are running into the "quality control filter" that society applies. One would think that you would have sorted that out by now, but no one listens to you because you are demonstrably wrong, not because you are right.

"Reasonable scrutiny" being only what the official Jewish and Christian researchers say--no Muslim research being allowed.

I am STILL waiting for you to cite any Islamic scholar who has been barred in the manner that you claim. Who has been suppressed? You are neither Muslim nor a scholar, and you are not suppressed, you are ignored, so unless you have another, real example, you admit that the whole premise of this thread is a lie.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by Michael Cecil

Originally posted by adjensen

Michael, who appears to have gone missing, claims that the Teacher of Righteousness IS Jesus (time differential not mattering when you add reincarnation to the mix,)

I have never said that the Teacher of Righteousness is Jesus. In fact, I specifically deny that assumption or assertion by the other Dead Sea Scrolls researchers.

.. snip ..

So, you are not only speculating on the basis of no Knowledge whatsoever; you are specifically LYING about what I have said about the Thanksgiving Hymns.

Yes, you are correct, and I apologize for misstating your point of view.

You did not "misstate" 'my point of view'.

You told a bald-faced lie.

Wanna dictionary so you can read the definition of the word "lie"?

And what amazes me here is that you 'think' that you can re-enter a conversation, after having told a bald-faced lie, as if that does not in any way threaten your credibility on this forum; which, of course, means that you are apparently of the view that no one else who reads your reply is either conscious enough or has enough appreciation of the Moral Law to recognize that there is something fundamentally amiss with someone who tells bald-faced LIES.

So you have apologized.

But that is merely a tactical move.

What happens if you choose to lie again?

Will you again apologize...until the next time you choose to lie?

Mi cha el

reply to post by adjensen

Otherwise, maybe you should read the note I recently wrote about the most difficult thing in the world being to explain the obvious.

I am not wrong.

I am explaining Revelations which have remained "secret and Sealed" until the "time of the End".

Maybe you can look up the terms "secret" and "Sealed", but the dictionary will prolly not tell you that the term "Sealed" in this context has to do with the Revelation of Knowledge through the Vision of the "Son of man" and the Revelation of the "resurrection".

Of course everyone is going to say that I am wrong.

The secrets of those words in the Book of Daniel were not Revealed to them through either the Vision of the "Son of man" or the Revelation of the "resurrection".

They don't know the "secrets". And, when I tell them what those secrets are, they say "No. Those are not the secrets. Those are not what the words "secrets" refers to."

But that is only because, once again, they don't know those secrets in the first place.

All they have is their 'arguments by Wikipedia' which assert that the Jewish, Christian and Muslim religious 'authorities' already know everything that there is to know about the Revelations...

Meaning, of course, that the Prophecy of Daniel 12:9, as well as the Prophecy of Isaiah about the "secrecy of the Revelation" being "Sealed in the heart of his disciples" are false Prophecies...

Since NOTHING is "secret or Sealed" to these religious 'authorities'.

Oh, by the way, I did not choose to call myself Michael; that is the name on my birth certificate.

But I'm not stupid.

All I would have to do is tell you the names of my biological parents and you would accuse me of having a delusion of grandeur.

Mi cha el

Originally posted by Michael CecilYou did not "misstate" 'my point of view'.

You told a bald-faced lie.

Sure, Michael. I've proved that your initial post in this thread is a total fabrication, and you have the audacity to accuse others of mistruths? I can understand the whole persecution complex thing, but come on, get a grip.

All I would have to do is tell you the names of my biological parents and you would accuse me of having a delusion of grandeur.

Trust me, Michael, nothing that you say could come as a surprise to me. The problem with a delusional mind is that it builds upon itself to the point where a person may never be dissuaded that anything is out of the question. One minute, you're God's chosen prophet, the next you're a censored Islamic scholar, the next you're the biological offspring of... I don't know, Adam and Eve. Or Jesus and Mary. Or John and Jackie Kennedy.

Everyone tells you that you're wrong, and have been for 34 years, because you ARE wrong. The fact that you never answer your detractors or provide any proof at all is sufficient indication of your wrongness for anyone but the most intellectually vapid. If you weren't labouring under the auspices of delusions, you'd see that, but you're almost certainly mentally incapable of it. It's just unfortunate that no one seems to want to get you some help.

Originally posted by adjensen
Michael, who appears to have gone missing, claims that the Teacher of Righteousness IS Jesus (time differential not mattering when you add reincarnation to the mix,)

First of all, a lie is the most evil thing in the world.

I do not like to be lied about with bald-faced lies.

I also do not like it when people feign an "apology" while asserting a second bald-faced lie.

Let me tell you what happened here:

I said that the Thanksgiving Hymns were written by Jesus.

You 'Wikipedia'ed the Thanksgiving Hymns--like a fourth grader could do (or someone with an I.Q. of 90)--and read the common fantasy that they were written by the Teacher of Righteousness.

Have you ever compared 1QH to 4QMMT?

Do you even know the relevance or significance of 4QMMT to this issue?

Never mind.

Do you know the differences in the paleographic analyses?

I doubt it.

Then you put two and two together and concluded that I was saying that Jesus was the Teacher of Righteousness.

So, your first bald-faced lie was to say that I said that Jesus "IS the Teacher of Righteousness"; while your second bald-faced lie was to say that you "misstated" my position.

Problem is that you cannot quote me where I said anything about the Teacher of Righteousness with regards to the Thanksgiving Hymns, since the term Teacher of Righteousness is NOT in my typical lexicon for the simple reason that it is a Sadduceean term.

Now, do you know the difference between Sadduceen and Sadducee?

I doubt it.

But the situation only gets worse because you have no experience with either receiving Revelations or writing Revelations. And I have had experience with both.

Let me try to give you just a glimpse of how little you know about ANY of these things:

Did you ever see the movie Amadeus?

There is one scene in the movie where Mozart's wife takes his music to Salieri to get his opinion on it. And she tells him that she needs the music back immediately because they are the originals. Salieri can hardly believe that they are the originals because there is not even so much as one cross out or correction. Everything that Mozart writes is written perfectly the first time. (Compare this with Beethoven, who has all kinds of corrections and cross-outs in the music that he wrote.)

Now, it just so happens to be the same with the Thanksgiving Hymns. There is only one cross out or correction in all of the Hymns; and the conclusion made by the nitwit Dead Sea Scrolls researchers--those who have never received or written Revelations--is that they are, for that reason, copies of an original written a hundred years before.

WRONG.

The Thanksgiving Hymns were written in the same way that Mozart wrote music: perfect the first time they were written.

How do I know that?

Because the very first time that I wrote down the Visions, Prophecies and Revelations I had received--this was in early 1976 shortly after the Revelation of the "resurrection" but a full YEAR after I had received the Vision of the "Son of man" and the Vision of the coming "time of trouble"--they came out as poetry. That poetry came out in a stream of words immediately put to paper unchanged and flawless. And, before I was able to explain any of these Revelations or Prophecies in the terms which are now found on my web page, they were first expressed in poetry. That poetry I have often referred to in my efforts to explain the Revelations I have received, but I have no intention whatsoever of publishing the poetry that I first wrote here because the Revelations are very closely interweaved with specific Prophecies.

So, the entire attempt to date the Thanksgiving Hymns to the time of the Teacher of Righteousness rests on nothing more than an assumption that they could not have been written without cross-outs if they were the original...

...Just like Salieri assumed about the music of Mozart.

Now, would Wikipedia allow any of this to be published as even a 'minority position' on the Thanksgiving Hymns?

Of course not.

All you have to do is read their policy about "original research" which cannot be supported by any independent citations in the literature.

Mi cha el

Originally posted by Michael Cecil

Originally posted by adjensen
Michael, who appears to have gone missing, claims that the Teacher of Righteousness IS Jesus (time differential not mattering when you add reincarnation to the mix,)

First of all, a lie is the most evil thing in the world.

Okay, quit prevaricating and demonstrate that you are truthful by citing the Islamic scholar who was censored, per your original post. Or are you admitting that you are an evil liar?

Originally posted by adjensen

Okay, quit prevaricating and demonstrate that you are truthful by citing the Islamic scholar who was censored, per your original post. Or are you admitting that you are an evil liar?

Not at all.

What I am admitting is that it makes no difference what I say; the likelihood is that you would accuse me of lying anyway.

To coin a phrase--or maybe not: "What I have written I have written."

If you don't want to believe what I have written, don't believe it.

But, just because you don't believe it, doesn't mean either than I am lying or that you have some 'right' to demand that I prove what I have said.

I am not asking you to pay my salary or for my health insurance.

I am not trying to gain followers who believe me.

I don't owe you any explanation.

I am merely making a statement.

And, unlike you, I do not lie.

Mi cha el

Originally posted by Michael Cecil
To coin a phrase--or maybe not: "What I have written I have written."

If you don't want to believe what I have written, don't believe it.

.. snip ..

And, unlike you, I do not lie.

On the contrary, your whole original post is a lie. An absolute, shameless, and embarrassingly obvious lie.

There are no Islamic scholars whose works on the Dead Sea Scrolls have been censored, by your own admission.

Thus, by your own admission, you are branded a liar.

(Sigh)

This, briefly, is the argument:

1) The precise nature of the relationship between the Creator and man is Revealed through the Revelation of the "resurrection" (in particular, the Revelation of the Memory of Creation); a Revelation which, in turn, Reveals the Vision of the "Son of man". (This is not widely understood. This is one of the 'secrets' referred to in the Book of Daniel 12:9) The Third Phase of the War of the Sons of Light occurs prior to the Second Phase of the War of the Sons of Light by means of a time-reversal; each of those Revelations consisting of a time-reversal in the first place. (Neither are these 'secrets' widely understood as a result of censorship. They are also referred to in the Book of Daniel 12:9)

(In The Treatise on the Resurrection there are three resurrections; 1) the physical; signifying physical 'rebirth'; 2) the psychic; signifying the revelation of the memories of previous lives; and, 3) the spiritual; signifying specifically the Revelation of the Memory of Creation. These things are not widely known; The Treatise on the Resurrection only being discovered in 1945. Both the Dead Sea Scrolls, discovered only in 1947 and later, and the Nag Hammadi Codices have been SECRET for the past 2000 years or so. So, apparently, to the Jewish and Christian religious 'authorities' the discovery of both the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Nag Hammadi Codices NEVER HAPPENED AT ALL since they ALREADY KNOW all the "secrets" that there are to know about the Book of Daniel, the Vision of the "Son of man" and the Revelation of the "resurrection".)

2) No one who receives these Revelations could ever assert that "Jesus is 'God'". This is simply not a possibility; as is demonstrated by the fact that Mohammed received these two Revelations and referrred to the idolatrization of Jesus as 'God' as a "monstrous blasphemy".

3) Both the Jewish and the Christian researchers of the Dead Sea Scrolls insist that the Thanksgiving Hymns are nothing more than poetry. In other words, they do NOT consist of Revelations.

4) The Quran is Arabic poetry. The Thanksgiving Hymns are Hebrew poetry. Thus, the possibility must seriously be considered that 1QH also consists of Revelations; something which the Jewish and Christian researchers specificlly deny.

5) The Orthodox Jewish religious establishment has an animus for both Jesus and Mohammed; both of whom received the Vision of the "Son of man" and the Revelation of the "resurrection". (I suggest that anyone who doubts this read the scurrilous screed entitled The Epistle to Yemen by Maimonides.) In addition, the Jewish religious establishment blames Jesus for the Christian theology of the Pharisee Paul which lead to the slaughter of millions of Jews during the Holocaust.

6) The Christian religious establishment has claimed that Jesus is 'God'. For this reason, they cannot consider even the possibility that the Thanksgiving Hymns were written by Jesus. (The Thanksgiving Hymns would actually have to be READ in order to understand why this is True.)

7) Because of the animus of the Orthodox Jewish religious establishment toward Jesus, they are very careful not to allow anything to be published about Jesus which would threaten their perspective. Were it widely known that Jesus is the author of 1QH--and that this is the kind of person who the Pharisees and the Sadducees rejected--that would reflect negatively on the Jewish religious establishment today.

8) Similarly, the wide publication of the assertion that Jesus was the author of 1QH would reflect extremely negatively on the assertion of the Christians that Jesus is 'God'.

9) The Muslim perspective on Jesus is that he was not 'God'. He was the messiah and a prophet sent by God; and, for that reason, had received Revelations similar to Moses, Isaiah, Daniel and Ezekiel. That perspective is nowhere to be found in any of the publications of the 'official' Jewish and Christian Dead Sea Scrolls researchers.

10) That the term "Vision of Knowledge" in 1QH is the same as the "Night Journey" of Mohammed in the Quran is another of the 'secrets' referred to in the Book of Daniel 12:9.

11) The radio carbon dating of 1QH to between 25 B.C. and approximately 65 A.D.--there was a reason that this was not publicized until 1991 (in other words, approximately 44 years after 1QH had been discovered) at the very "END" of the 'Dead Sea Scrolls scandal'--places it specifically within the time frame that Jesus was alive; the midpoint of that time frame being ~~20 A.D.; when Jesus would have been approximately 23-25 years old.

12) The Quran explains the meaning of the terms "Islam" and "Muslim". I will not accept any explanation of those terms by any Christian or Jew speculating on the basis of the 'fallen' consciousness/consciousness of the 'thinker'.

Mi cha el

Originally posted by adjensenYou are not being censored, you are running into the "quality control filter" that society applies. One would think that you would have sorted that out by now, but no one listens to you because you are demonstrably wrong, not because you are right.

Let me make this as simple as I can; although I seriously doubt it will help:

1) The Treatise on the Resurrection was found at Nag Hammadi, Egypt in 1945.

2) This means that, since its writing several hundreds of years ago, this particular document has been a secret. But it is no longer a secret. Because it was discovered. Understand?

3) Is it widely known that the physical resurrection referred to in that document refers to physical 'rebirth', that the psychic resurrection referred to in that document signifies the revelation of the memories of previous lives, or that the spiritual resurrection referred to in that document signifies the Revelation of the Memory of Creation?

4) The answer to that question is "No".

5) Why not?

6) Because Wikipedia and the media and the religious 'authorities' will not allow this to be published.

7) Why not?

8) Because this is something of which they have no Knowledge; this Revelation being Unsealed only by someone who has received the Revelation of the "resurrection".

9) In other words, although The Treatise on the Resurrection is no longer a secret; the precise meaning of the words in The Treatise on the Resurrection, similar to the words of the Book of Daniel 12:2, have remained "secret" because of censorship. Understand? (Prolly not)

10) If you actually READ the Koran, as translated by N.J. Dawood, you will read numerous references to 'Sealed hearts', or 'hearts that have been Sealed' in echo of the Book of Isaiah 8:16; the word "sealed" being a specific code word for Revelation; and the phrase 'sealed hearts' being a specific reference to those who have NOT received the Revelation of the "resurrection"; a Revelation that is received in the heart. Understand? (Prolly not)

Any further questions?

Look in a dictionary under the words "censorship" and "secret".

Or read my writings about the explanation of the word "Sealed".

Although the Revelation of the "resurrection" is "Sealed in the heart", the hearts of those who have not received that Revelation are ALSO 'sealed': 'sealed' or 'hardened' by arrogance and self-righteousness and accusations of evil against anyone who has received that Revelation.

But merely to say this, of course, is just another instance of "hate speech".

Mi cha el

Originally posted by Michael Cecil
(Sigh)

This, briefly, is the argument:

Please stop babbling, Michael. You have yet to name an Islamic scholar whose work on the Dead Sea Scrolls has been censored. Either do so, or admit that you lied in the OP. You are not a Muslim, your credentials as a scholar are questionable, as most everything I've seen you post is speculation, and no one censors you -- they ignore you because your speculations are wrong.

Reposting your nonsensical beliefs ad infinitum does not show you to be truthful, and neither does attacking me.

Originally posted by Michael Cecil

Originally posted by adjensenYou are not being censored, you are running into the "quality control filter" that society applies. One would think that you would have sorted that out by now, but no one listens to you because you are demonstrably wrong, not because you are right.

6) Because Wikipedia and the media and the religious 'authorities' will not allow this to be published.

7) Why not?

8) Because this is something of which they have no Knowledge; this Revelation being Unsealed only by someone who has received the Revelation of the "resurrection".

See, here's your problem. You equate quality control -- the elimination of false, unsubstantiated or misleading claims in a medium that is one of fact, not of opinion -- with censorship, which is not the case.

If I went to Wikipedia right now and edited the entry on, say, Ronald Reagan, to say that, because of a dream I had, he wasn't dead, but alive and well in the person of Sarah Palin, it would, rightly, be reverted within moments. People read the entry on Ronald Reagan to learn facts about him, not wild speculation that is without any basis.

Only an idiot would claim that I'm being "censored" by those actions.

You've published your book. Why wasn't that censored? You have your blog. Why isn't that censored? You post (and repost, over and over) here on ATS. Why isn't that censored?

The only conclusion that one might draw is that you really, really do not understand the concept of censorship, nor the difference between objective and subjective statements, and the appropriateness of each in the public realm.

Your only basis is your dreams, which result in you coming to a radically different conclusion than everyone else. Have you heard the statement "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"? You're making an extraordinary claim, backed by NO evidence, and any questioning of that is met with "it is impossible for anyone to understand who has not received the revelation," which is essentially saying "take this on blind faith."

Go add "Jesus was a space alien" to his Wikipedia entry and see how quickly that's taken off. Censorship? But it must be, because there is as much evidence of that as you offer for your reincarnation theories.

I ask you this, Michael: if your dreams were true, and if it were really this important, and if it was impossible to understand without having received your dreams, why hasn't everyone received your dream? Why would God (or whoever you think sent this to you) send it to you, and you alone, particularly when you are so very ineffective in relaying the message or convincing anyone of its validity?

On the one hand, we have you -- with a track record of not understanding some of the basic facts of Christianity, Judaism and Gnosticism, demonstrable delusional thinking, and no facts, no basis, beyond "believe me and live!", while on the other hand we have sanity, historical and archaeological proofs, and reasoned, rational arguments that have a component of "believe", but that's not all that they are.

If there is the slightest amount of lucidity left in you, ask yourself why any scholar, or any person who respected the truth, would see any value in what you offer.

You are not censored, you are ignored because you are wrong.

reply to post by adjensen

How do I know that?

Because the very first time that I wrote down the Visions, Prophecies and Revelations I had received--this was in early 1976 shortly after the Revelation of the "resurrection" but a full YEAR after I had received the Vision of the "Son of man" and the Vision of the coming "time of trouble"--they came out as poetry. That poetry came out in a stream of words immediately put to paper unchanged and flawless. And, before I was able to explain any of these Revelations or Prophecies in the terms which are now found on my web page, they were first expressed in poetry. That poetry I have often referred to in my efforts to explain the Revelations I have received, but I have no intention whatsoever of publishing the poetry that I first wrote here because the Revelations are very closely interweaved with specific Prophecies

He learned through his visions and prophesies. This should be enough to tell you to give it up, arguing with him is useless and a waste of time

.
BTW, I'm on your side

edit on 8-11-2010 by kimish because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by kimish

Originally posted by Michael Cecil


Secondly, the Christian belief that Jesus is 'God' categorically BLINDS the Christian religious 'authorities' to even the possibility that Jesus could be the author of the Thanksgiving Hymns--as is clearly demonstrated by my research over the past 36 years--inasmuch as there are numerous statements made by the author which are distinctly 'unGodly'.

Furthermore, were the information to be widely publicized that Jesus was the author of the Thanksgiving Hymns, it would seriously threaten the economic interests of the Christian religious establishment which insists that Jesus is 'God'.

These are the two principal reasons why, to this day, as far as I am aware, there are NO articles by Muslims published in any of the official journals of Dead Sea Scrolls research.

That is anti-Islamic bigotry, whatever the Jewish and the Christian religious 'authorities' choose to call it.

Mi cha el

I am a Christian, as is most of my family and we do not believe Jesus is 'GOD'. Jesus was GOD's gift to mankind, he was the "son" of GOD.
Please explain where you get that Christians believe that Jesus IS 'God', because that is not in my families belief system, and many of them are devout Christians acting as missionaries to third world countries every year. One family member of mine is an ordained minister.

The Bible quotes Jesus as having said.....
John 10:30-33: 'I and the Father are one.’
Source < a Christian site or at least they purport to be....

reply to post by eNaR

Strictly speaking, "Jesus is God" is an inaccurate way of putting it.
I quote from the Athanasian Creed;
"For the right faith is this, that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man ...Who, although he be God and man; yet he is not two, but one Christ".
So Christians believe that "The Son" is God, and that there is a combination of "Godhead" and "manhood" in Christ- but in many ways it is better to limit the use of the name "Jesus" to the human side of that combination.

Originally posted by Michael Cecil
This is the conspiracy:
That the Jewish and Christian religious 'authorities' consider the Dead Sea Scrolls to be exclusively the property of Judaeo-Christianity, Inc.; and, thus, that the Muslims should not be allowed to publish their commentaries on the Dead Sea Scrolls which draw any parallels to the Revelations in the Quran.

It was for this reason, I suggest, that, at the height of the 'Dead Sea Scrolls scandal', approximately 20 years ago, the media would NOT publish any Muslim perspective on the Dead Sea Scrolls; in particular, a Muslim perspective on the Thanksgiving Hymns of the Dead Sea Scrolls.

As far as a conspiracy goes, this is the crux of the matter. Everything else is fluff.

So, my questions are; what Muslim scholars were not allowed to publish their work concerning the Dead Sea Scrolls, who stopped them, what did their work entail (a general overview is fine), was the work that of an individual or a group and was it peer reviewed.

I believe that these are very basic, neutral and reasonable questions that have no bias for or against Michael and his beliefs. I look forward to his reply.

Eric

Originally posted by EricD

Originally posted by Michael Cecil
This is the conspiracy:
That the Jewish and Christian religious 'authorities' consider the Dead Sea Scrolls to be exclusively the property of Judaeo-Christianity, Inc.; and, thus, that the Muslims should not be allowed to publish their commentaries on the Dead Sea Scrolls which draw any parallels to the Revelations in the Quran.

It was for this reason, I suggest, that, at the height of the 'Dead Sea Scrolls scandal', approximately 20 years ago, the media would NOT publish any Muslim perspective on the Dead Sea Scrolls; in particular, a Muslim perspective on the Thanksgiving Hymns of the Dead Sea Scrolls.

As far as a conspiracy goes, this is the crux of the matter. Everything else is fluff. So, my questions are; what Muslim scholars were not allowed to publish their work concerning the Dead Sea Scrolls, who stopped them, what did their work entail (a general overview is fine), was the work that of an individual or a group and was it peer reviewed. I believe that these are very basic, neutral and reasonable questions that have no bias for or against Michael and his beliefs. I look forward to his reply.Eric

First of all, what I have conveyed are not beliefs, but the Knowledge Revealed through the Vision of the "Son of man" and the Revelation of the "resurrection". Belief has to do with the consciousness of the 'thinker'; the Knowledge I am talking about has to do with the consciousness 'Created by and in the image of God' (Genesis 1:27)

Secondly, thanks for actually quoting what I said--in which the term "Muslim scholar" is not to be found.

Thirdly, to the substance of your questions, which almost sound reasonable; but are based upon a fundamental lack of understanding as to the way the 'business of theology' works.

The fundamental goal of the theological profession is to preserve the different religious establishments; the Jewish, the Christian and the Muslim. And what that necessitates is thought control. And what that necessitates is the establishment of very distinct boundary lines between each of the religions.

What this means is that all research must be "peer reviewed"; and, if anyone ever gets an especially new idea at all, for example, an idea that crosses those boundary lines by establishing parallels between one religion and another, that idea will not be accepted as being worthy of publication until it has been established beyond any reasonable doubt that that idea will not be in any way threatening to the religious establishment. Ideas or findings which in any way are determined as threatening to that religious establishment are collectively attacked as being "shoddy research", to quote a theologian at the University of Notre Dame with regards to any views on the Dead Sea Scrolls which challenged the 'official' research.

What this means is that, in order to get anything published at all, you must be able to provide citations to previous research which you have used as a stepping stone, as it were, to arrive at your conclusions. In that way, all of those other previous researchers are validated in their conclusions, a very, very small incremental increase in knowledge is accomplished, and the religion itself is given more credibility.

And, in order to get an advanced degree in theology (in order to be PAID to 'do theology'), you have to have a major professor; your first responsibility to which is to validate his or her research and not to uncover any information which threatens his conclusions or in any way diminshes their validity. ( I know of one unfortunate case of a woman at Notre Dame who was tasked to find research in support of the conclusions of her major professor in pursuit of a higher degree. At first she found what she was told to find. But then she found more and more information which clearly demonstrated that the conclusions of her major professor were, in fact, contrary to a much more plausible explanation of that information. Neither the major professor nor any of his associates were in any way amused by this situation. And they responded as any institution would that considered its existence to be threatened.)

So, that is the situation within the religious establishment.

Now, is it possible to break into such a religious establishment from the very get-go in order to obtain the advanced degree necessary to give credibility to the ideas that you present?

Not on your life.

The institution--whether it is Judaism, Christianity or Islam--is instantly capable of recognizing those ideas which threaten their very existence as separate religions.

And this is precisely where the issue of the "Muslim perspective" enters the equation.

There are numerous Revelations in the Quran which specifically condemn the separation into the different religions and the different sects of Judaism, Christianity and Islam (Sunni and Shi'ite, for example). Such separations are considered to be an unnatural consequence of the failure or refusal of people to believe the progression in the Revelations. From the perspective of the Quran, the Revelations do not engender conflict between religions; but, rather, the realization that the Revelations are from the same Source.

So, instantly, we have a problem: To say that the "Tree of Life" of Genesis (in Judaism) is equivalent to the Vision of the "Son of man" in the Book of Daniel--which is almost universally disregarded by Judaism but is held to by the Christians--is equivalent to the "Night Journey" of Mohammed in the Quran is to strike very directly at the root of the separation between Judaism, Christianity and Islam. And, obviously, neither the Jewish, the Christian, nor the Muslim religious 'authorities' are amused at such a situation.

What this means is that the Jewish religious 'authorities' would have to take the Book of Daniel as a Revelation and at least parts of the Gospels as Revelation; the Christians would have to have more understanding of Jewish mysticism and the "Ten Sephirot" of the "Tree of Life"; and both the Jewish and the Christian religious 'authorities' would have to acknowledge the immediate relevance of and would also have to study the Revelations in the Quran, as would the Muslims have to acknowledge the relevance of the Revelations in Genesis, Isaiah, Daniel and the Gospels.

What this would involve is the complete collapse of religious 'authority' for the Jewish, Christian and Muslim religious 'authorities'.

And there is no way to 'finesse' this.

The Truth about the Revelations received by Moses, Isaiah, Daniel, Jesus and Mohammed is, ultimately, a quite lethal threat to the ENTIRE monotheistic religious establishment...

Which is why no "Muslim perspective" on the Thanksgiving Hymns can possibly be published in the official journals of Dead Sea Scrolls research.

Similarly, for the "dog and pony show" referred to as "Inter-Faith Dialogue" in an attempt to achieve "peace" between the religions. The MOST important aspect of the term being "inter"; in other words they all INSIST that there be separate religions of Judaism, Christianity and Islam--when the very SOURCE of those separations is the categorical denial, rejection, and contradiction of the original Revelations in the first place; in particular, the denial of the Truth about the Doctrine of "resurrection".

And the bottom line here is that all of these religious 'authorities' would PREFER the near-annihilation of human civilization itself rather than to acknowledge the Truth of the original Revelations which would threaten all of the separations between the three monotheistic religions.

In any case, nothing I have said in 34+ years and nothing I will say here is going to make ANY difference at all with regards to the Visions and Prophecies I have received.

As I understand it, those Prophecies will be fulfilled in all of the horror in which I originally received them more than 35 years ago.

The train has been going much too fast, and has built up much too much momentum, for far too long.

But it was my responsibility to TRY.

I did what I could.

That is what I have spent most of my life doing.

And, probably sooner than anyone expects, you will WISH that I had succeeded.

Mi cha el

I call HOAX or Flat out someone using their imagination to construct this thread. Is it possible to close it?

reply to post by kimish


You can bring the thread to the attention of a moderator, if you would like. Lay out your case and see if they agree with you.

I, on the other hand, believe that Michael truly believes what he is saying and therefor this thread doesn't reach the level of fraud or fabrication.

Whether you or I agree with him really doesn't enter into the equation.

Eric