Anti-Islamic Bigotry in Dead Sea Scrolls Research

This is the conspiracy:

That the Jewish and Christian religious 'authorities' consider the Dead Sea Scrolls to be exclusively the property of Judaeo-Christianity, Inc.; and, thus, that the Muslims should not be allowed to publish their commentaries on the Dead Sea Scrolls which draw any parallels to the Revelations in the Quran.

It was for this reason, I suggest, that, at the height of the 'Dead Sea Scrolls scandal', approximately 20 years ago, the media would NOT publish any Muslim perspective on the Dead Sea Scrolls; in particular, a Muslim perspective on the Thanksgiving Hymns of the Dead Sea Scrolls.

My research indicates, first of all, that the "Vision of Knowledge" referred to in the Thanksgiving Hymns is the same as the Vision of the "Son of man" received by Daniel and Jesus, and the same as the "Night Journey" of Mohammed in the Quran.

Secondly, the Christian belief that Jesus is 'God' categorically BLINDS the Christian religious 'authorities' to even the possibility that Jesus could be the author of the Thanksgiving Hymns--as is clearly demonstrated by my research over the past 36 years--inasmuch as there are numerous statements made by the author which are distinctly 'unGodly'.

Furthermore, were the information to be widely publicized that Jesus was the author of the Thanksgiving Hymns, it would seriously threaten the economic interests of the Christian religious establishment which insists that Jesus is 'God'.

These are the two principal reasons why, to this day, as far as I am aware, there are NO articles by Muslims published in any of the official journals of Dead Sea Scrolls research.

That is anti-Islamic bigotry, whatever the Jewish and the Christian religious 'authorities' choose to call it.

Mi cha el

so why are there no commentaries from islam?

maybe islam wasn't invented yet?

does it even pertain to islam? any relevancy at all?

does the DSS even mention the beloved mohammed?

may he rest in peace.


islam is trying to horn in on the dead sea scrolls now?

bb!!

edit, chicken or the egg, dude.

Originally posted by Michael Cecil


Secondly, the Christian belief that Jesus is 'God' categorically BLINDS the Christian religious 'authorities' to even the possibility that Jesus could be the author of the Thanksgiving Hymns--as is clearly demonstrated by my research over the past 36 years--inasmuch as there are numerous statements made by the author which are distinctly 'unGodly'.

Furthermore, were the information to be widely publicized that Jesus was the author of the Thanksgiving Hymns, it would seriously threaten the economic interests of the Christian religious establishment which insists that Jesus is 'God'.

These are the two principal reasons why, to this day, as far as I am aware, there are NO articles by Muslims published in any of the official journals of Dead Sea Scrolls research.

That is anti-Islamic bigotry, whatever the Jewish and the Christian religious 'authorities' choose to call it.

Mi cha el

I am a Christian, as is most of my family and we do not believe Jesus is 'GOD'. Jesus was GOD's gift to mankind, he was the "son" of GOD.
Please explain where you get that Christians believe that Jesus IS 'God', because that is not in my families belief system, and many of them are devout Christians acting as missionaries to third world countries every year. One family member of mine is an ordained minister.

They're always going to be bigoted toward one another; it's never going to stop. Not until people give up the crutches of these religions and begin to take responsibility for themselves. When people start to do that maybe they'll be more apt to take into consideration the grave danger of such bigotry.

All of these religions are like sicknesses and should be treated as such.

reply to post by Michael Cecil


S&F Interesting subject. Mi cha el can you provide a link to the documents in question? I would like to read them. It stands to reason that Jesus would have written something down at some time.

Originally posted by fooks does the DSS even mention the beloved mohammed?

(Sigh)

It is irrelevant that Mohammed is not mentioned in the Dead Sea Scrolls.

As previously stated, there are Revelational parallels between the Thankgiving Hymns and the Quran; not merely with regards to the Vision of Knowledge and the "Night Journey"; but, also, with regards to the use of the word "heart" as a code word reference to the Revelation of the Memory of Creation and the revelation of the memories of previous lives (referred to as the "resurrection") which continues from Isaiah, through the Dead Sea Scrolls (including the Scroll of the War of the Sons of Light) and the Quran.

The Jewish and Christian religious 'authorities' do NOT want it to be known that there is such a Revelational and Doctrinal continuity with the Quran.

Mi cha el

reply to post by kimish

I am a Christian, as is most of my family and we do not believe Jesus is 'GOD'. Jesus was GOD's gift to mankind, he was the "son" of GOD. Please explain where you get that Christians believe that Jesus IS 'God', because that is not in my families belief system, and many of them are devout Christians acting as missionaries to third world countries every year. One family member of mine is an ordained minister.

Just one example (that I could think of off-hand) is a verse in the gospel of John (14:9):

Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

I'm sure there are others, but I'm working on no sleep.

In an apocryphal book, The Story of Adam and Eve, God says to Adam that he will come down to earth as a son of Adams' seed to live as a human with all of our infirmities in order to save us before he will bring Adam and his seed back to the garden. The apocryphal books are just as viable as the canonical books (because they're all made up anyway, in my opinion).

p. 13 3 Again said God unto Adam, "All this misery that thou hast been made to take upon thee because of thy transgression, will not free thee from the hand of Satan, and will not save thee. 4 "But I will. When I shall come down from heaven, and shall become flesh of thy seed, and take upon Me the infirmity from which thou sufferest, then the darkness that came upon thee in this cave shall come upon Me in the grave, when I am in the flesh of thy seed. 5 "And I, who am without years, shall be subject to the reckoning of years, of times, of months, and of days, and I shall be reckoned as one of the sons of men, in order to save thee." 6 And God ceased to commune with Adam.

The above is the first time in that book where god tells Adam this. He makes many more promises of what he will do when he comes as a son of man in later passages. These are all concessions for Adam because he is impressed by Adams' actions. Link to the passage in The Story of Adam and Eve

Originally posted by Alethea
reply to post by Michael Cecil

 

S&F Interesting subject. Mi cha el can you provide a link to the documents in question? I would like to read them. It stands to reason that Jesus would have written something down at some time.

I suggest you Google 1QH, 1QM and 4Q529.

Just read the Thanksgiving Hymns AS IF they had been written by Jesus, and see what kind of understandings you come up with. See how that changes your understanding of what the Teaching of Jesus was all about.

Mi cha el

reply to post by Michael Cecil


What evidence do you have that 'Jesus' wrote The Thanksgiving Hymns?

And what exactly connects 'The Vision Of Knowledge', 'The Vision Of The Son Of Man' of Daniel and Jesus and Mohammeds 'Night Journey' or are we expected just to take your word for it and also accept that it's all part of yet another anti-Islamic conspiracy without supplying any supportive evidence whatsoever?

Originally posted by Michael Cecil
This is the conspiracy:

That the Jewish and Christian religious 'authorities' consider the Dead Sea Scrolls to be exclusively the property of Judaeo-Christianity, Inc.; and, thus, that the Muslims should not be allowed to publish their commentaries on the Dead Sea Scrolls which draw any parallels to the Revelations in the Quran.

Actually, I'm not sure how much the Christian community hangs on to these Judaic documents. Aside from a couple of fringe types, no one claims that anything in the DSS has anything to do with Christianity, and largely predates it.

It was for this reason, I suggest, that, at the height of the 'Dead Sea Scrolls scandal', approximately 20 years ago, the media would NOT publish any Muslim perspective on the Dead Sea Scrolls; in particular, a Muslim perspective on the Thanksgiving Hymns of the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Was such a perspective written and rejected? Was the author a noted Islamic scholar or just another fringe type? Why wouldn't Islamic journals publish it? Could they not self-publish their work?

I suspect that you are said author, though the fact that you chronically complain that the media ignores everything that you write, combined with the fact that you are not a Muslim, is reason enough to say that the title of this thread is erroneous.

Barring such an explanation, I await details of the scholars who did study the scrolls, wrote commentaries, and were then banned from publishing.

Furthermore, were the information to be widely publicized that Jesus was the author of the Thanksgiving Hymns, it would seriously threaten the economic interests of the Christian religious establishment which insists that Jesus is 'God'.

I have yet to find any source, apart from yourself, who makes such a ludicrous claim, and yours is made without any basis, and in the face of conflicting evidence (not the least of which is the likelihood that the text was written before Christ was born.)

Islam wasn't invented until LONG after the Dead Sea Scrolls.
Muhammad stole bits and pieces of paganism, Christianity and the Jewish faith.
He mushed it together, threw in some of his own sex perversions, and made an new political religious cult.
Since Muhammad made Islam by filtering his beliefs through the other religions of the time,
perhaps it is karmic that Islam doesn't get to see the Dead Sea Scrolls unless they too are filtered
through other groups first.

Honestly though .. I don't care.

I absolutely adore your writings on religion, Mr Cecil. Thank you for this latest offering.

reply to post by StinkFist


Thank you for those tid bits of info . Now it makes sense to me how some Christians believe that. star for you.

reply to post by kimish


Hi, may I ask you what denomination or sect of Christianity you are, if you don't mind - just for my personal studies, thankyou.

Michael, we are still waiting for you to cite the Islamic scholar who studied the Dead Sea Scrolls, wrote a commentary on them and was refused the right to publish...

Without this citation, or if you claim it is yourself (who is neither Muslim, nor scholar,) your entire thread is fictitious.

Hello,

I have been researching the subject on the Book of Revelation. Christianity and Judaism have this common link as for the usage of symbolic personification of things in the Old Testament. Islam on the other hand seems to contain inaccurate and even incorrect or flawed connections.

I present to everyone my research at: thebookofrevolution.blogspot.com...


Read my expose concerning 'Gog and Magog' and you will be surprised on the conclusion. You could also read other chapters to get the idea that the Book of Revelation does not derive from a divine source but rather is a natural document containing a yearning.

I used to be Muslim therefore I know the flawsi n the Qu'ran and hadiths ( or Islamic sources ). My surprise conclusion is that both the Islamic texts(Qu'ran and Hadith Qudsi) and the Book of Revelation do not derive from a divine source. However, John does employ phrases and symbols which he barrows from the Old Testament. Therefore, it is more likely that Islamic sources are very distinct and original from any Jewish documents with exception of adopting the exinct Jewish social rules which are mostly located in the Book of Numbers.

The conspiracy is really the barrowing process which both Muhammad and John,the writer of the Book of Revelation, uses to compose their documents. Yes, I am suggesting( and concluding ) that John and Muhammad are not being truthful about certain things contained in their respective "divinely inspired" texts.

The Dead Sea scrolls are really the yearning of Jews to rebuild their Temple. The issue of the Temple could also be refuted by two things: ( 1 ) John ( if you believe in the Book of Revelation ) mentions that Jesus is the Temple/Tabernacle in Revelation 21:3 and Revelation 21:22. ( 2 ) There is an absence of Old Testament books or sources or scriptures which gives a new prophecy beyond 70 A.D. when the Romans destroyed the Temple. The Romans repeated a pattern in which the Babylonians had done 500 or 600 years earlier. The problem is there is no document similar to the Book of Jeremiah or other prophets which gives a prophecy beyond 70 A.D. the problem is that only the Book of Revelation is detailng events before 70 A.D., at 70 A.D. and beyond 70 A.D. but my research only found out that he only gave a prediction and not a prophecy. The supposed end of John's supposed prophecy is 1140 A.D. + 1 or 2 years. Please read my reseacrch at the link above.

OK, the prophecies contained in the Book of Ezekiel, I could positively identify to be the era of Zerubbabel ( The second Temple builder leader after the end of their 70 year captivity in Babylon ) and the Book of Daniel prophecies are explaining the evils of Antiochus Epiphanes and the heroic deeds of the Maccabees family and those around them.

Peace

reply to post by iamnot


I consider myself non-denominational. I am not a big fan of organized religions. The majority of my family are either pentecostal or protestant though.

Originally posted by Michael Cecil
This is the conspiracy:

That the Jewish and Christian religious 'authorities' consider the Dead Sea Scrolls to be exclusively the property of Judaeo-Christianity, Inc

Well they do consider lot's of stuff and they can consider as much as they like but that doesn't make it so.

The thing is the dead sea scrolls do nothing to support Christianity, the big hope in finding writings from the time of Christ was that his name would be plastered throughout, confirming the existance and legitimacy of Christ as a historical figure. It failed in that regard, Jesus does not get a mention.

How is that possible? it's like he never actually existed.

However one of the pre cursors to Christ is mentioned, the Essenes "Teacher of rightousness" who lived two hundred years earlier, persecuted by the Romans and possibly crucified on a tree. This is, once again, just another fragment of the Christ myth.

But yeah I'd also like to know who these "authorities" are and the identity of the writer in question?

Originally posted by squiz
However one of the pre cursors to Christ is mentioned, the Essenes "Teacher of rightousness" who lived two hundred years earlier, persecuted by the Romans and possibly crucified on a tree. This is, once again, just another fragment of the Christ myth.

Michael, who appears to have gone missing, claims that the Teacher of Righteousness IS Jesus (time differential not mattering when you add reincarnation to the mix,) but, while there are those who say, like you, that the Teacher of Righteousness is attributed with similarities to Jesus (though being crucified by himself was not one of them,) the majority of scholarly works that I've seen do not view the Dead Sea Scrolls to be Christian in anything but a tangential manner (given that both are related to sects of Judaism, this would be inevitable.)

Taken as they seem to be, the texts of a long dead Jewish offshoot, the scrolls bear up to reasonable scrutiny. Attempting to turn them around to be something that they are not generally results in confusing and contradictory findings.

reply to post by Michael Cecil


Well so you have learned what Religion is all about, lies, deception and corruption, never trust religion as organized religion is nothing but the tool used by mankind to keep populations at war with each other, even in the Bible tells you so.

The death sea scroll while maybe a good piece of historical value is nothing but lore like the Bible, keeping it exclusive of Christian believes and excluding everything else is just another took used by christian believers and those so call experts.

And as for Mohamed well just like Jesus they are man made tools.