Why kill animals unnecessarily?

Our goal on earth is to maximize pleasure and minimize pain. Whose pleasure or pain? My answer is all sentient humans, ETs, and animals that can experience pleasure and pain through a nervous system. Whether they have souls or not, we should be trying to make their limited time on earth sheer joy.

Some say we are natural herbivores, but even if we are omnivores by design or by evolution and even if we once had to kill animals to survive, we can now choose veganism/vegetarianism/near-vegetarianism to make life better for animals by eating the bare minimum of meat. Most Westerners eat far more protein than is necessary or even healthy.

Just imagine: perhaps the food chain is not completely inevitable. Perhaps someday mankind will become wildlife preservers where, at least to a greater extant than today, predators will be fed tofu-like meals and prey will be protected from predators.

What about plants and unicellular organisms? They have no nervous systems, and the studies alleging them to have feelings detectable through polygraph tests have not been replicated. Until Star Trek matter replicators are invented, we have to eat something, and eating low on the food chain actually saves many plants' lives. If we have to choose, a plant < a clam < a cow < a human in terms of consciousness and in terms of saving lives.

Some say meat is tasty. If people were tasty, that would not justify cannibalism.

Some say hunting is a fun sport. If the animals had guns too, maybe they'd enjoy hunting. Perhaps some Nazis saw shooting Jews as a fun sport. If it is indeed necessary to control animal populations, government professionals who (ideally) hate their job should do it by humanely killing the minimum number of animals.

Some say we need to experiment on animals for the advancement of science. I think the world needs more heart and less science. Just because animals can be conveniently subdued as subjects does not justify harming them to possibly help someone in the future. Consider this: if aliens really do abduct humans and experiment on them to further the aliens' knowledge, is that justifiable?

Some say God has given us dominion over the animals. The Queen of England has dominion over her subjects, but she doesn't eat them.

To sum up: we have the choice. Why not choose compassion?

Because people, on the whole, are scum.

They elevate themselves into some sort of super species, who deserves to walk round killing stuff, when they're nothing but scum. Anyone who kills for fun. SCUM. Anyone who kills for pleasure. SCUM. Anyone who gets any sort of enjoyment out of killing anything else. SCUM.

Now, i know there are alot of hunter people on here who think that they have every right to kill what they like. And those that do it for food, fair enough, I've no problem with that. But the people who kill just becasue. Are utter scum. (In my books) No respect for life, so I have no respect for yours.

double post....

tripple post ?

It's really sad how delusional most people are. You can't blame lions or sharks because they don't know any better but you can certainly blame humans. We have the knowledge and capability to easily live a vegetarian lifestyle if we so choose. This, in my opinion, is mental evolution. We need to grow up as a species and take responsibility. There's no reason whatsoever to murder as many animals as we do on regular basis for our precious taste buds. There is no excuse for this. It's nothing but selfishness and a disregard for life.

Man can't survive on roughage alone. Our bodies need the protein, iron, vitamin B12, and amino acids that are readily found in meat in order to be healthy. What I have to wonder at, is why some people get upset over humans eating meat but don't care when it's a lion eating another animal. Why is killing an animal only wrong if a human does it? The way I see it, going hunting is no different than a lion stalking and pouncing on it's prey. The only difference is the method by which our prey is killed. Torturing animals or hunting just for the fun of it when you have no intention of eating what you kill is one thing, but hunting or raising animals for food is another. The former is just cruel, the latter I see nothing wrong with.

because killing is fun and animals are tasty.

Originally posted by Jenna
Man can't survive on roughage alone. Our bodies need the protein, iron, vitamin B12, and amino acids that are readily found in meat in order to be healthy. What I have to wonder at, is why some people get upset over humans eating meat but don't care when it's a lion eating another animal. Why is killing an animal only wrong if a human does it? The way I see it, going hunting is no different than a lion stalking and pouncing on it's prey. The only difference is the method by which our prey is killed. Torturing animals or hunting just for the fun of it when you have no intention of eating what you kill is one thing, but hunting or raising animals for food is another. The former is just cruel, the latter I see nothing wrong with.

I'm no expert on what our bodies need to stay healthy by any means but I'll inject my 2 cents here. As far as needing iron, B12 etc that's all well and good. If meat is required to stay optimal then great, lets eat meat. I think we can all agree that the average person most likely eats a lot more of it than necessary though. That crosses the line into something we can all live without. The point is to minimize pain as much as possible. It's a screwed up world we live in. This realm is all about conscious beings having to sustain their bodies by eating others. That's the sad fact. We have to live with it but we can use our intelligence to minimize the barbarism. I have nothing against people hunting for food but the massive factories we've installed on earth that think they have a right to round up all the animals they want and slaughter them all for the masses, I don't agree with at all.

And did you compare your intelligence to a lion? C'mon.. Lions don't and can't do anything about minimizing the pain they cause. We on the other hand certainly can. That's why humans should be held much more accountable for what they do.

Originally posted by FurryExtraordinaire
The point is to minimize pain as much as possible.

Then I missed the point completely, because what the OP sounds like is that the point is that there's no excuse for eating meat which I disagree with. You'll also note that I already stated in my previous post that killing animals just for the heck of it and torturing them is completely different from killing for food. The former is unnecessary, the latter I have no issue with.

And did you compare your intelligence to a lion? C'mon.. Lions don't and can't do anything about minimizing the pain they cause. We on the other hand certainly can. That's why humans should be held much more accountable for what they do.

I used lions as an example because they were the first that popped into my head. Did you know that lions kill for fun or simply because they can?

I have often seen examples of lions killing just because prey happened to cross their paths; it seems man is not alone in his thirst for bloody fun.

On a few occasions, I have witnessed lions killing mongoose. In each of these observed incidents, I watched the members of the pride play with the carcass for some time before finally rejecting it; the uneaten carcass was then left to rot.

Source

Or since you take issue with the intelligence levels of lions, how about dolphins? Their intelligence levels are comparable to ours.

Marine experts now believe that these displays of attacks on non-rival, non-predatory, peace-loving porpoises and, more shockingly, of dolphin infanticide, may have always taken place.

Source

Were we to look hard enough I wouldn't be surprised to find that most animals behave similarly. Mankind is nothing more than an intelligent animal and honestly the ways we've come up with to kill animals are a lot quicker and presumably less painful than the pain and fear involved with having another animal chase you down, take bites out of your backside to keep you from getting away, dig their claws into your midsection, and finally go for the kill once you're too injured to run or fight back.

reply to post by Jumbles


I agree entirely. Your philosophy of compassion would make a huge difference to the sum total of living experience on this planet. Converting to vegetarianism/veganism is difficult and needs alot of preparation but when done right meets all nutrition requirements and is healthier.

So I gotta ask what will be accomplished by the naive idea of feeding predators tofu? Killing animals has another purpose to. It keeps populations in check. Overpopulation leads to starvation which is a whole lot crueler then hunting. Sometimes killing must be done Sport hunting is wasteful, hunting animals for food is a bit more balanced. Your not guaranteed to find or kill if you hunt. Some animals are pretty clever.

reply to post by Jumbles


While it's true that many people consume more meat than is considered healthy....I don't blame carnivorous animals for eating what they're supposed to eat.

That's just how life works.

Humans on the other hand have become really pathetic and numerous. Many in the industrialized world don't even understand what they are eating. They don't have to hunt or slaughter the animals themselves...they just have to go to their local grocery market. I think there's a loss of respect to life in that process.

I even recall reading a newspaper segment where someone was accusing hunters of being inhumane for hunting down animals for their meat, and that they should go to a grocery store instead, stating that 'no animals were being hurt'....

Whilst I think hunting for 'fun' is for fools with fragile ego's, I also think calling humans 'animals with bigger brains' isn't too far off the mark. Some people may just have slightly more primitive brains and their hunter inscints are still there.
But its not just humans... theres a few 'cruel' animals too.

reply to post by SteveR


slighly off subject but the only source of vitamins/minerals we cannot get from vegetable sources is B12. B12 is made in the gut by bacteria. However the human body is more suited to eating insects than meat of animals. Our physiology proves that. B12 can be gained however from eating insects or dairy products like eggs and milk cheese etc. Also people also eat wrong you are suppose to eat when the stomach acid starts to pour into the stomach so when you eat the stomach is already digesting the food you have just eaten rather than for it to settle there waiting for the acid.

Back to the OP I have to agree people are arrogant assholes the quicker mother natures get rid of man the better i will not shed any tears for a waste of space species

Originally posted by Jumbles


Just imagine: perhaps the food chain is not completely inevitable. Perhaps someday mankind will become wildlife preservers where, at least to a greater extant than today, predators will be fed tofu-like meals and prey will be protected from predators.



Some say meat is tasty. If people were tasty, that would not justify cannibalism.

Damn, i don't know if laugh or cry with the predators eating tofu, lol.

When someone say something like this to me, i ask myself if vegetarians and nature warriors are idiots or only ignorants.

And not all meat is tasty, and not everyone likes the same food, so your cannibal argument is not very smart.

reply to post by Jumbles


I fully believe you are entitled to live your life as you see fit. I fully support demonstrating compassion as a way of life. I stand by you with your desire to deal with the world with more heart. More power to you. I do not believe humans have dominion over the planet but are merely just another occupant.

I would question your opening remark with regards to "our" goal. Should I really try to make every living thing on the planets existence pure joy? That is a BIG bite to chew. How do I know what "pure joy" is to an amoeba? Is it really my lane anyway? I think I understand where you are going with it even though it is overstated a little maybe.

A good book on the subject

The link above is a pretty good read on the subject. It is written by a former vegan. She still supports and advocates the compassionate side of this issue but cites a ton of empirical evidence on why the diet portion of the issue is not a great idea. Simply, the human body has not evolved to eat that way no matter how good your intentions are.

BTW, I am not a vegan or vegetarian. I do love to garden and eat what I grow. I do go hunting and eat what I bring home. I do my best to avoid commercial agricultural products. In addition, I can honestly state, for the record, I do not support cannibalism

Then by the OPs standards set, we should all NEVER kill a mouse or a cockroach. Oh wait? I hear dissent in the distance. What's that you say? That's different?

Please, if you want to be vegan and feel good about it, then by all means do so and be well. For the love of all things slathered in BBQ sauce don't try to force your ways on others. No, really. Don't even post about it. We are all well informed about the vegan way of life. If you want to inform us about some aspect of veganism, then post away. As for me, I came, I saw, and I still taste the vegan hot dogs to this day.

Edit to add:

If you feed predators tofu, then the animals lower on the food chain who birth 10 to a litter would overrun the world. Predators = checks and balances.

Who says hunting is unnecessary? You? I hunt, I kill and I eat what I kill. The money I save at the grocery store goes towards paying my bills. When someone volunteers to pay my bills, I will quit hunting and spend my paycheck at the meat market.

reply to post by Jenna
I believe all necessary nutrients can be obtained from plants, except for a small amount of vitamin B12. The B12 could be obtained synthetically or from farm animals that have died naturally.

I don't like the idea of predators killing prey much more than I like the idea of humans killing animals. The human has a choice while the predator does not, and that makes a moral difference. We may never be able to end predation completely, but we might be able to lessen it someday--I don't think substantial efforts in that direction have ever been tried.

reply to post by hangedman13
Feeding predators tofu-like meals (by which I actually mean plant-based) would reduce the amount of predation in the world. As wildlife preservers, mankind would also have to develop birth control for animal populations. That is not yet feasible, but technology marches on, and perhaps we can find ways to do so.