Do You Believe in Literal Magic?

Hulkamania still awaits your elaboration, brother.

Keep waiting, any time you ask for proof people either:

1. Ignore you / make fun of you (if you don't prove that you know more than them).

2. Disappear (when they know you are right but refuse to escape from the safety of their delusion).

Originally posted by avraell

Hulkamania still awaits your elaboration, brother.

Keep waiting, any time you ask for proof people either:

1. Ignore you / make fun of you (if you don't prove that you know more than them).

2. Disappear (when they know you are right but refuse to escape from the safety of their delusion).

Um, I think most would say that we have no real proof.. just anecdotes and instincts. Doesn't really hold up under ATS scrutiny for proof. So why bother posting it?

Yes I believe in literal magic. It is all well and good to attribute every outcome to coincidence however a tipping point can occur after which all that you can do is to say that you believe due to the weight of experience. The training is very difficult and the changes that the individual experiences are slow but inexorable.

If you have not been trained over several years in any system of literal magic you really cannot say anything at all about magic in a constructive manner. You frankly have no experience whatsoever.

Sorry to be so negative but I am tired of naysayers. I wouldn't even call them sceptics as most do not use the correct definition as this lies in demotic greek which is easy to learn but again not for the lazy or stupid.

To me magic, and life in general, is just energy manipulation. Perhaps luck and chance can be attributed to an unconscious kind of energy manipulation where the user, through a subliminal force of will, gains their desired end yet attributes the effort to something external to themselves.

By making it external you get things like science and technology. There could be a way of internalizing the process and being able to order different energies through the mind and an occult (for lack of a better term) disposition.

Maybe they used to call such people wizards and witches. A lot of stories about how really successful people became successful, defying all logic and probability, make me wonder though. Everyday I believe less and less in Luck

When I play TES:IV - Oblivion (where literal magic is a prime source of offense/defense against the mythical creatures of the game), I get caught up in it and really like to think that something like throwing fireballs out of the palm of your hand was real. Unfortunately, I have never seen anything that could be explained as literal magic.

I always believe that anything is possible. Harry Potter, Oblivion, even Jedi (even though that's more energy manipulation (except the Emperor throwing lightening out of this hands?) could be possible. Right now it is a stretch of the imagination. Though, I think it would help to remember, back in the early history of the United States, that going to the moon was a laughable event sort of like throwing fireballs from the end of a wand. Who knows...

I wish it to be real, but right now am more doubtful than not about the whole literal magic phenomenon.

reply to post by RussianScientists


Magic and science are one in the same. Science is just a more accepted phrase for "weird workings". People fail to realize that just because we give something a name and sort of understand how it works that it is no longer magical. All you have to do is look around. Everything here is crazy. I’m amazed at most things just for the simple fact that they exist and that I exist here and even weirder that "here" even exists at all. Once you stop listening to what people tell you is real and not real and just think about how science is mostly theory and not physically proven facts then just open your eyes and take the world for how to see it. After all you live in your own personal reality.

Simply manipulating electricity and magnetism you can perform any magical thing of legend i.e. creating matter out of thin air, pushing and pulling things, inflicting pain or healing ect ect the list can go on for days. Also the human body has so many energy resources within its self why wouldn’t we be able to perform "magic". You have Electricity, magnetism, heat (thermodynamics) pressure and then consciousness and those are just the tip of the iceberg.

Point is don’t ever listen to close minded people. They tend to fear what they don’t know then reject it in an attempt to thwart it away from their reality in defense.

reply to post by vaevictis


No,i do not. If it was around at one time,what did all the mages die off? I will believe in it when i see a fire ball come out of someones finger,or someone make an inanimate object move by itself. But even then it doesnt have to labeled magic.

Yes I believe in literal magic. It is all well and good to attribute every outcome to coincidence however a tipping point can occur after which all that you can do is to say that you believe due to the weight of experience. The training is very difficult and the changes that the individual experiences are slow but inexorable.

If you have not been trained over several years in any system of literal magic you really cannot say anything at all about magic in a constructive manner. You frankly have no experience whatsoever.

Sorry to be so negative but I am tired of naysayers. I wouldn't even call them sceptics as most do not use the correct definition as this lies in demotic greek which is easy to learn but again not for the lazy or stupid.

I am sure you can describe the nature of this training, and share with us the progression to achieving real results, rather than making broad, passive aggressive statements implying that you know something others don't. Please do!

Also, I am sure you have a reason for listing modern Greek as some sort of magical (lulz) catalyst. Do elaborate.

Um, I think most would say that we have no real proof.. just anecdotes and instincts. Doesn't really hold up under ATS scrutiny for proof. So why bother posting it?

You will note that I was correct in my statements. You would also note that your avatar is appropriate - do not open your mouth if you cannot back up your statements in any way whatsoever. For example, I am not asking for tangible proof from the guy above, I am simply asking him to explain himself after making a broad statement, which is clearly meant to imply that he knows something.

reply to post by avraell

I am sure you can describe the nature of this training, and share with us the progression to achieving real results, rather than making broad, passive aggressive statements implying that you know something others don't. Please do!

I don't really think you want to know. The sarcasm in tthe "Please do!" is kinda heavy. I know quite a few practitioners and I know they spend a lot of time researching, experimenting and practicing to achieve results and then repeating the processes to hone the practice and get better results. It's like anything else people do. You want an finite answer to a multiple-tiered, broad-reaching question and I think it's unfair and confrontational. If you were seriously interested in the processes of practicing majick, you would be doing the research, experimenting and practicing yourself. If you were, you would understand why your request is ridiculous.

I, myself, am not a practitioner. I've done some research and dabbled in Sigil Magic, co-operating with a thread right here on ATS. But I'm a friend of some who do practice and there are results that make me ponder the legitimacy of it all. However, I am admittedly ignorant to the rituals as the poster you replied to points out.

My $.02
Cuhail

I've actually had an interest in the Occult for quite some time now. Not as a practitioner, but as a researcher. While I cannot state the validity of all of the rituals, many of the more basic ones such as the Middle Pillar and the LBRP seem like they could have significant psychological benefits for one who does believe in their power. So, there are some aspects of magick that cannot be written off as quickly as some people in this topic would have you believe.

As for the magic performed in fantasy novels, movies, and games I have never seen any Occult school of thought that claims these things are possible. However, you can find directions for things like wrist-mounted flame throwers on the internet, and for someone even a hundred years ago these things would seem like magic.

Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel
reply to post by vaevictis

 

No, not at all. Though it would be cool to be like Harry Potter. I can do all I want in that universe and become a king man.

but you wont be able to sort out your eyesight

Here is a magic phrase that will make things appear on the table out of no where:

" Waiter may I have a glass of ( tap) water please?"

Originally posted by Cuhail
reply to post by avraell

 

I am sure you can describe the nature of this training, and share with us the progression to achieving real results, rather than making broad, passive aggressive statements implying that you know something others don't. Please do!

I don't really think you want to know. The sarcasm in tthe "Please do!" is kinda heavy. I know quite a few practitioners and I know they spend a lot of time researching, experimenting and practicing to achieve results and then repeating the processes to hone the practice and get better results. It's like anything else people do. You want an finite answer to a multiple-tiered, broad-reaching question and I think it's unfair and confrontational. If you were seriously interested in the processes of practicing majick, you would be doing the research, experimenting and practicing yourself. If you were, you would understand why your request is ridiculous.

I, myself, am not a practitioner. I've done some research and dabbled in Sigil Magic, co-operating with a thread right here on ATS. But I'm a friend of some who do practice and there are results that make me ponder the legitimacy of it all. However, I am admittedly ignorant to the rituals as the poster you replied to points out.

My $.02
Cuhail

There is nothing wrong with being confrontational when people are full of #. You are being confrontational by implying that I didn't do my research / practice. I would put money, and quite a bit of it, on my genuine belief that I know and have practiced more than all the people in this thread combined. I don't care if that sounds arrogant - I can back it up, go find my thread on the progression of magic if you want. Debate is the way truth is discovered, and again - those who can say nothing in support of their statements shouldn't talk.

Also, you just contradicted yourself, and significantly so. If something is a process that can be researched, it can be explained, summarized, or you can hone in on specific details. I am too #ing lazy to type this right now and it's a waste of time, but just take martial arts as an example. It's a broad, broad topic involving conditioning, techniques, combinations, etc. One technique can take up to two years of conditioning, however - I can summarize it for you, I can answer ANY specific question about it, and I certainly don't claim that you need to learn Mandarin to learn shaolin. Same with education and anything to do with science and tech. I can at the very least summarize things for you, and if you show a certain level of proficiency, I can go into more detail. This is not being done here.

In short, my request isn't "ridiculous" and if you are going to confront me on being confrontational, maybe you shouldn't do the same.

As for sigil magic - I lived alone for two months a couple of summers back and spent quite a bit of time on it. No results whatsoever. Don't get me wrong, things correlated a couple of times, but only when they were probably without any outside interference.

I've actually had an interest in the Occult for quite some time now. Not as a practitioner, but as a researcher. While I cannot state the validity of all of the rituals, many of the more basic ones such as the Middle Pillar and the LBRP seem like they could have significant psychological benefits for one who does believe in their power. So, there are some aspects of magick that cannot be written off as quickly as some people in this topic would have you believe

The Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentgram can be compared to kuji kiri - a psychological tool better than it can be compared to "actual magic." Not saying you implied otherwise, more for the benefit of the poster quoted above.

How to turn lead into gold:
Turn it into bullets.
The magic formula for turning lead into gold is GUNPOWDER
doubt this not.

Thats why the guy who invented gun powder, Roger Bacon was considered the last alchemist.
He found the way
The church locked him up for years afterward, so they could control this "secret".

Now you have the gunpowder, and the lead, in a tube
"give me your gold" you say
now you have the gold, the gunpowder, and you still have the lead
magikally
( OK you might gave to bust a cap or two into a couple of peeps but after that it will go pretty smooth )
bank robbers do this all the time BTW

So you give this formula to some one who goes and collects people's gold with it
then you sell it to the people who the first guy has been terrorizing
the military industrial complex
(you can turn uranium intro gold too, but tha tis much more complicated)
you have your lead and everyone's gold and POWER over them.

If you could turn lead into gold then soon there would be so much gold it would be worth nothing, and lead would be worth everything, because of its scarcity, and because of the new found demand for it.
also
Gold makes lousy bullets


PS you can also turn PETN the underwear bombers explosive into gold
Chertoff turned about 3 dollars worth of PETN into 350 MILLION dollars.
thanks PEEPS!

That is how you turn dross into gold.
go figure
right under your noses all along....

want to know how to turn Shilt into gold
I know that too...
no shilt
( CLUE Rummy is a master at this )
PS
all this Hairy Potter stuff is just to distract the masses
so they don't get it.


having said that there is such a thing as real magik

reply to post by avraell


Well now, seeing that you already know the answers to the question you asked, why ask it? And your assessment of me being confrontational is probably true, though, it was unintended to be such.

So, if you already know the answer to the question you asked, why ask it?
Not confrontational, just curious.

Cuhail

The fundamental problem is that those that can do tend to keep quiet. If you want humanitarian conduct out of magicians you are onto a losing streak. Most of the magicians that I know are very happy living double lives. Yet people demand that we become performing seals. Here is a practical experience that I had a few years ago.

I got to know a guy that started working as a hypnotherapist. He one day complained to me that he was fed up of all of these people that he hypnotised fell back into regressions and started remembering past lives. Well I am a bit sceptical about what happens in past lives. Yes I am a trained Occultist but I do have a sceptical side…

Anyway I told him that I could prove that magic works. It was the old frictionless turntable trick. Once you learn to move the turntable one way you can then turn it the other way. I explained the secret to making it work and he replied “Can you do it”? I said “Yes” He then wanted me to do it. I explained that I was not a performing seal and that he would always doubt me if I did it. If he did it himself it would be infinitely more convincing.

What the hell! Talk about a closed mind. All that he had was posturing, a lack of intellectual curiosity and sheer gutlessness.

If we cost our time at $10 bucks an hour then how much would it cost to learn to do an proper banishing ritual??? Whilst we are pursuing our interests and you are sitting on your couch why should we just appear like rabbits out of a hat? To be perfectly honest I have my magic.

Sorry if I came across as a ranter but I got another proof that magic works not that Ineed it (lol).

Originally posted by Cuhail
reply to post by avraell

 

Well now, seeing that you already know the answers to the question you asked, why ask it? And your assessment of me being confrontational is probably true, though, it was unintended to be such.

So, if you already know the answer to the question you asked, why ask it?
Not confrontational, just curious.

Cuhail

I don't know an EFFECTIVE method of achieving paranormal results. I do claim to know ALL the hypothetical methods. Therefore, I am asking for said supposedly effective method.

As for confrontation, debate is confrontational by nature, whatever people may so, so imo it's all good. The guy posting after you however, is an arrogant attention whore, so it's not all good there.

Originally posted by tiger5
The fundamental problem is that those that can do tend to keep quiet. If you want humanitarian conduct out of magicians you are onto a losing streak. Most of the magicians that I know are very happy living double lives. Yet people demand that we become performing seals. Here is a practical experience that I had a few years ago.

I got to know a guy that started working as a hypnotherapist. He one day complained to me that he was fed up of all of these people that he hypnotised fell back into regressions and started remembering past lives. Well I am a bit sceptical about what happens in past lives. Yes I am a trained Occultist but I do have a sceptical side…

Anyway I told him that I could prove that magic works. It was the old frictionless turntable trick. Once you learn to move the turntable one way you can then turn it the other way. I explained the secret to making it work and he replied “Can you do it”? I said “Yes” He then wanted me to do it. I explained that I was not a performing seal and that he would always doubt me if I did it. If he did it himself it would be infinitely more convincing.

What the hell! Talk about a closed mind. All that he had was posturing, a lack of intellectual curiosity and sheer gutlessness.

If we cost our time at $10 bucks an hour then how much would it cost to learn to do an proper banishing ritual??? Whilst we are pursuing our interests and you are sitting on your couch why should we just appear like rabbits out of a hat? To be perfectly honest I have my magic.

Sorry if I came across as a ranter but I got another proof that magic works not that Ineed it (lol).

The fundamental problem is that those that can do tend to keep quiet.

This is why you are attention-whoring yourself here, right? To "keep quiet." If you truly wanted to keep quiet, you wouldn't walk around saying you can do magic. In either case, you mentioned explaining "how it works," why don't you grant us the same favor, your highness?

It's as simple as this - willpower is the combination of certainty of success and desire for said success. A demonstration increases the "certainty of success," in this case the confirmation that magic is real, therefore it increases willpower and makes people more likely to achieve.

What you are doing, is denying people knowledge under the false guise of "you need to learn yourself" without telling them where they can learn things themselves. If you say - read or research, you just prove how little you know - there is NOTHING out there available that will teach you any "real" magic. Nothing.

Sorry if I came across as a ranter but I got another proof that magic works not that Ineed it (lol).

You did rant a lot, however you proved nothing. Also, those who have proven something already don't need proof, you on the other hand - well, refer to the first sentence.

Let me elaborate, you are like a kid strutting onto a fitness board and telling people you can deadlift 1200 lbs @ 180 lbs bodyweight. When someone asks you to demonstrate it, you reply "I am not a seal." When someone asks you how you got there you say "I told my friend once, but he wanted me to be a seal, I am not a seal." In short, if you want to keep it a secret, leave. If you want to show us how it can be done, then show us.

reply to post by avraell


“This is why you are attention-whoring yourself here, right? To "keep quiet." If you truly wanted to keep quiet, you wouldn't walk around saying you can do magic. In either case, you mentioned explaining "how it works," why don't you grant us the same favor, your highness? “

Thank you serf! lol

Well actual debate is by its nature confrontation or would you disagree with you previous post. If you wanted a one sided debate you should have so stated. I gave you a response. Too bad it was not to your liking.

Whatever your take on magic it differs from mine. If you feel willpower is the answer well fine! Ireally don’t care too much.

I am not denying anyone knowledge. Anyone can learn if they simply find the right organization. There are plenty of organizations out there. What you want to do is to learn to swim on dry land. All I am proposing is that the right people get involved in the right organizations. Not everything can be taught or learnt on the internet.

I gave an example which is more than you ever did. Yours is merely a pleas to learn the lazy way I am not obliged to teach you or anyone else. Why don’t Go out there and look. If you live near a city you can easily meet with Lodges who will train. Good luck you can’t call me out as I am not your pet seal.

Dare, Will, know, keep quiet.

You are the serf, clown. Again, you said nothing. As expected.