Famed NASA Astronaut almost, kind of, (not really) says Extraterrestrials are here!

That's frankly beneath you Jim. You are trying to make a case that no -one in space has ever said they think there could be some kind of intelligence out there. The truth is that is NOT the case and the Russians, who have probably more experience than NASA does in manned space flight say something different. The evidence given in the link i posted by default suggests that American astronauts might well be 9ordered to keep quiet about things they see that don't quite fit into the norm. I realise it's a sensitive subject when America Land of the Free blah blah shows itself to possibly be, not nearly as free as they like to trumpet and there is a knee jerk reaction from people like you. However those are the facts, Cosmonauts have said they have seen things that look like some sort of unknown tech. Or are you so terminally jingoistic you think they are simply lying to make a political point ?

reply to post by JimOberg


Since your backside seems to be kissed regularly by the moderators here, allowing you to insult any member by calling anyone who doesn't agree with your conclusions 'UFO nuts' and 'real crazies' and myriad other direct insults, with apparent impunity, all that is left to say to a an obvious disinformation agent such as yourself, is that you know where you can take your disinfo and patronizing attitude and pathetically weak and obvious propaganda don't you?

And since you get away with it regularly, let's see if we ordinary, non PTB connected members can get away with direct insults too shall we?

What's good for the goose is good for the gander...(on an unbiased forum at least).

Oberg YOU are a nut.

Oberg, you are a real crazy, and weep worthy.

Hows that? OK is it? These are both direct statements you have made in two posts on this thread. There IS more. Let's see how long these direct insults are 'allowed' to remain, when they don't come from yourself.

Enjoy being called mentally impaired do you? If not i'd suggest you don't do it to other members who don't agree with you.

Originally posted by FireMoon
That's frankly beneath you Jim. You are trying to make a case that no -one in space has ever said they think there could be some kind of intelligence out there.

By no means. I'm asking for a case where somebody who's been in space says they saw something that proved to them that alien visitors are there.

The truth is that is NOT the case and the Russians, who have probably more experience than NASA does in manned space flight say something different.

I'm very interested in these Russian quotations and what the cosmonauts actually said and the context of their sightings. In some cases -- the notorious Afanasyev hoax, for example -- what they say in Russian is one thing and the English translation for the UFO TV show has no relationship at all to it. Others appear to be good reports of anomalous visual observations whose explanation needs detailed investigation -- but the context information is never available. These can be genuinely intriguing.

The evidence given in the link i posted by default suggests that American astronauts might well be ordered to keep quiet about things they see that don't quite fit into the norm.

This is a cheap, lame shot -- an easy gimmick to disregard any testimony you don't like, by assuming the men and women are liars.

I realise it's a sensitive subject when America Land of the Free blah blah shows itself to possibly be, not nearly as free as they like to trumpet and there is a knee jerk reaction from people like you.

Uh, who has been doing the detailed, in depth investigations of major 'astronaut UFOs', and who has been jumping to self-serving conclusions? In the first category, there's me and -- who else, exactly? And in the second 'knee-jerk' category? Who's on that list?

However those are the facts, Cosmonauts have said they have seen things that look like some sort of unknown tech.

Look like to YOU, or look like to THEM?

Or are you so terminally jingoistic you think they are simply lying to make a political point ?

More name-calling. Tut tut.

Originally posted by spikey
Enjoy being called mentally impaired do you? If not i'd suggest you don't do it to other members who don't agree with you.

Can we take this as your reply that no, you WON'T provide the evidence you bragged you would, and that no, you WON'T defend the "alien spaceship in view" alleged astronaut quotation that you presented as indisputable evidence only a few hours ago?

Never thought you would. Predictable.

As several middle-of-the-road genuinely-curious posters here have said, we need to check the evidence case by case. I'm totally for that approach. We can continue to do so, even if everybody won't play.

The main reason I think it's important is because I'm convinced there could well be -- and from time to time HAS been -- sightings of genuinely anomalous and important objects made by astronauts, sightings that need to be winnowed out from the noise, recognized, diagnosed, and if needed, ascted on.

Raising the noise level with inaccurate labels only serves to make more difficult the task of recognition of true anomalies. On at least two occasions, the lives of the astronauts depended on a correct response, and one was made only half the time.

reply to post by IgnoreTheFacts

I am short on time and really don't care to read dozens upon dozens of out of context quotes that have been discussed in this and millions of other threads yet again.

Tell me about it...me neither. Planning a party in a few weeks and need shoes to go with the dress - plus it's Halloween tomorrow and I have to get ready for the kids....

edit... have a few extra seconds now so...I'll try. You rest.

During James Lovell's flight on Gemini 7

Lovell: BOGEY AT 10 O'CLOCK HIGH. Capcom: This is Houston. Say again 7. Lovell: SAID WE HAVE A BOGEY AT 10 O'CLOCK HIGH. Capcom: Gemini 7, is that the booster or is that an actual sighting? Lovell: WE HAVE SEVERAL...ACTUAL SIGHTING. Capcom: ...Estimated distance or size? Lovell: WE ALSO HAVE THE BOOSTER IN SIGHT...

Aldrin said, “The first unusual thing that we saw I guess was one day out or pretty close to the moon. It had a sizable dimension to it...” Aldrin said the Apollo crew at first thought the object was the Saturn 4 booster rocket (S-IVB) but added, “We called the ground and were told the S-IVB was 6,000 miles away.” Aldrin described the UFO as a cylinder while Armstrong said it was “...really two rings. Two connected rings.” Collins also said it appeared to be a hollow cylinder which was tumbling. He added, “It was a hollow cylinder. But then you could change the focus on the sextant and it would be replaced by this open-book shape. It was really weird.”

And according to a taped interview by J. L. Ferrando, Major Cooper said:
"For many years I have lived with a secret, in a secrecy imposed on all specialists in astronautics.
I can now reveal that every day, in the USA, our radar instruments capture objects of form and composition unknown to us. And there are thousands of witness reports and a quantity of documents to prove this, but nobody wants to make them public.
Why? Because authority is afraid that people may think of God knows what kind of horrible invaders. So the password still is: We have to avoid panic by all means."

"I was furthermore a witness to an extraordinary phenomenon, here on this planet Earth. It happened a few months ago in Florida. There I saw with my own eyes a defined area of ground being consumed by flames, with four indentations left by a flying object which had descended in the middle of a field. Beings had left the craft (there were other traces to prove this). They seemed to have studied topography, they had collected soil samples and, eventually, they returned to where they had come from, disappearing at enormous speed... I happen to know that authority did just about everything to keep this incident from the press and TV, in fear of a panicky reaction from the public."

Donald Slayton a Mercury astronaut revealed in an interview he had seen UFOs in 1951

"I was testing a P-51 fighter in Minneapolis when I spotted this object. I was at about 10,000 feet on a nice, bright, sunny afternoon. I thought the object was a kite, then I realized that no kite is gonna fly that high. As I got closer it looked like a weather balloon, gray and about three feet in diameter. But as soon as I got behind the darn thing it didn't look like a balloon anymore. It looked like a saucer, a disk. About the same time, I realized that it was suddenly going away from me -- and there I was, running at about 300 miles per hour. I tracked it for a little way, and then all of a sudden the damn thing just took off. It pulled about a 45 degree climbing turn and accelerated and just flat disappeared."

Major Robert White

"I have no idea what it could be. It was grayish in color and about thirty to forty feet away."

Maj White In Time Magazine

"There ARE things out there! There absolutely is!"

Originally posted by rusethorcain
reply to post by IgnoreTheFacts

 

I am short on time and really don't care to read dozens upon dozens of out of context quotes that have been discussed in this and millions of other threads yet again.

Tell me about it...me neither. Planning a party in a few weeks and need shoes to go with the dress - plus it's Halloween tomorrow and I have to get ready for the kids....

edit... have a few extra seconds now so...I'll try. You rest.

During James Lovell's flight on Gemini 7

Lovell: BOGEY AT 10 O'CLOCK HIGH. Capcom: This is Houston. Say again 7. Lovell: SAID WE HAVE A BOGEY AT 10 O'CLOCK HIGH. Capcom: Gemini 7, is that the booster or is that an actual sighting? Lovell: WE HAVE SEVERAL...ACTUAL SIGHTING. Capcom: ...Estimated distance or size? Lovell: WE ALSO HAVE THE BOOSTER IN SIGHT...

Read and learn:

The following is an excerpt from an article "Flying the Gusmobile" about the Gemini missions. Published at "Air and Space" magazine July 14, 1998. www.airspacemag.com:80...

(snipped)

At almost twice the length of Gemini 5, Commander Frank Borman's Gemini 7 mission may have been even more trying, but it grabbed the attention of at least one Hollywood producer.

"Right after we got into orbit we were supposed to 'station keep' or fly formation with the booster," Borman says. "We were flying formation and taking photographs and infrared measurements and I started calling it a 'bogey,' which is an old fighter pilot term. Well, a lot of the UFO freaks on the ground picked this up and said we had seen a UFO because we had referred to our booster as a bogey.

"Just this past year I got a call from a producer at 'Unsolved Mysteries' and they said, 'We read your account about your seeing a UFO on Gemini 7 and would you come on the program?' I told them: 'I'd love to come on your program because I'd love to straighten that out.'

"I explained what it was I saw, and I said, 'I don't think there were UFOs,' and the producer said, 'Well, I'm not sure we want you on the program.' "

Interview with CBC News space reporter Bill Harwood:

HARWOOD : Were there any other things from your Gemini mission that—and they specifically want you to tell, maybe things that weren’t in your book Countdown? Any stories that you’ve—?

BORMAN : No. I—the interesting thing—one of the interesting things was flying formation with the second stage that put us into orbit and using an infrared sensor to track that. We referred to it as a “bogey” all the time, which was natural, normal parlance for it. And when we got back, True magazine wrote a big story about how we’d been tracking a UFO and all that nonsense. So I’ve been plagued with that ever since. People say, “Well,”—if you run into UFO circles today, they’ll still tell you, well, we saw a UFO. Which is just foolish

Originally posted by rusethorcain
Major Robert White

"I have no idea what it could be. It was grayish in color and about thirty to forty feet away."

Maj White In Time Magazine

"There ARE things out there! There absolutely is!"

edit on 30-10-2010 by rusethorcain because: some are too "busy" to locate those facts they choose to ignore

Thanks for the hilarious "because"....

Read and get smarter:

"Good stuff" is passed from site to site without regard for its original authenticity, until you're drowning in the dross... Another great example is the X-15 'sighting' by Bob White which fraudulently omits explanatory details from the cited source (Time magazine),

The cited article is TIME magazine, July 27, 1962, pp. 12-13, entitled 'SPACE: Inside the Sky'. It is a portrait of Major Robert White.

The final paragraph reads: 'New Mystery: After the sky-stabbing record flight last week, four X-15 pilots -- White, Walker, North American's Scott Crossfield, and Navy Commander Forrest Petersen -- journeyed to Washington, where President Kennedy gave them the Robert J. Collier Trophy, presented annually since 1911 for outstanding achievements in flight.

But for White and his fellow X-15 pilots, the greatest reward for their work is the satisfaction of probing the mysteries inside the sky. In last week's flight Bob White found a new mystery for scientists to puzzle over: through the X-15's thick left quartz window, he saw a strange sight: 'There ARE things out there,' he radioed enthusiastically over his voice radio. 'There absolutely is.'

As White later described one 'thing': 'It looked like a piece of paper the size of my hand tumbling slowly outside the plane. It was greyish in color, and about 30 to 40 feet away. I haven't any idea what it could be.'

Oberg continues: engineers postulated he was seeing ice flaking off the engine nozzle, super-cooled by the liquid oxygen propellant and broken loose by the firings of the X-15's attitude control thrusters once it was in space. This explanation came to satisfy everybody in the X-15 program, especially in hindsight when nearby tumbling ice flakes became a common sight on orbital missions.

In ANY case, the use of the TIME article with omission of the explanatory comments such as the small size of the sighted object and its appearance -- tumbling, looking like a piece of paper -- is a simple case of fraud. Somebody expected to have no problem promulgating this deliberately distorted story among the UFO buffs at whom it was aimed. And as far as I can tell, it's worked.


Rusethorcain, ready to admit you've been made a fool and a patsy of,
by UFO websites you mistakenly thought you could trust?

Realizing this is the first step back towards reality. Take my hand....

reply to post by JimOberg


Not sure exactly how this considerate explanation is proof positive they are not referring to spacecraft when they use the term bogey. So they use it for a lot of things...big deal.

I am hard to teach.

reply to post by JimOberg

Rusethorcain, ready to admit you've been made a fool and a patsy of, by UFO websites you mistakenly thought you could trust?

Not by a longshot...though feel free to keep trying to convince me.

What exactly is your position anyway...
There is no solid evidence of UFO's from other planets visiting earth and it is impossible?
There is no solid evidence of UFO's visiting earth but you admit it is possible?

And remember if you choose the second answer it opens up a whole can of big fat worms for any argument against UFO visitation. If it is possible...what people are saying they saw could actually be what they saw.
How novel.

Originally posted by JimOberg

More likely, we'll laugh -- and then weep for YOU.

First, Musgrave HAS said this video has a prosaic explanation, the one posted by me on the WWW about twelve years ago and studiously ignored and covered up by writers such as the author of this story, who made up the 'facts' you seem to have so gullibly swallowed. I developed that explanation based on my own experience with spaceflight operations in Mission Control, which helped me understand a lot of genuinely weird and unearthly features of motion in space [I was in Mission Control for Story's very first space flight, STS-6 -- we've been colleagues and friends ever since]..

Please get a grip, open your eyes and mind, and realize that the genuine mysteries of spaceflight are far more exciting than the fake ones that have suckered so many well-meaning young enthusiasts.

No, you get one. My eyes are plenty more open than yours obviously. And I ain't backing down to your useless conjecture or tripe for that matter.

In fact, it's very easy to see through your smoke screen which is the true net here designed to snag the gullible. And it is easy to deduce that your only real recourse to debunking is to try and deflect away from what was actually said.
He said that the disc shaped object appeared to come from nowhere.
All that you debunker kids have left to play with are the semantics of this story, so naturally that is how you and the rest are trying to attack it. And it's quite humorous to watch unfold. Even funnier to watch you all squirm.

You can not deny the claim as to what it looked like, where it was in relation to their ship, and how it arrived. Which by the way was witnessed by several trained observers with advanced instruments capable of showing them where they were when the event transpired.

Oh, and I could care less about your pompous rationalizations that help you keep everything in your little world, in the proper little boxes. It's called delusion to most.

Now go get your own grip. One that pulls your arrogance back down to this planet. And just remember something here, if you want to try and patronize people, it is far safer to start with yourself and stay there, because I'll turn it against you every time. You hurl snide remarks towards me at your own peril, ones that might have you doing the weeping for yourself in the end.

Quoting out of context? Embellishment? Dramatic license? Fantasy masquerading as fact?

Sounds like a political campaign . . . . .

reply to post by JimOberg


Nothing cheap or lame about it at all. Please don;t come on here having been part of the programme and on message your whole life and start spouting rubbish like that when you have shown in other posts on this board you believe some absolutely ridiculous propaganda put out by the likes of the CIA. The facts are there to seem see, the Russians have spoken openly about some of the stranger happening but hey guess what? It's never happens to any American. if we accept that NASA simply doesn't have the same depth of experience as the Russians, fair enough it is a possibility. The truth is however many of the members of NASA are either current or ex military and the military has been proved to have lied, time and again about the UFO phenomenon. If you are saying otherwise you really do need to actually get a grip on the reality of it all.

I have said before, i believe you approach this all with a straight bat and you undoubtedly have a good handle on some of the more outlandish claims that are made and make a decent and logical case for your point of view. However, your understanding of politics and the big wide world as it actually is, judging by the tone of many of your posts is beyond woeful. You are patently quite happy to believe any old crap dished out by those you perceive to be "your side".

This is ATS the vast majority of people on this forum think that they are lied to as a matter of course because it is easier than telling the truth and that governments have developed a habit of lying simply because they can You are voice from the very belly of the beast as it were. Whilst most of us are perfectly happy to listen to your scientific analysis and take note, your political analysis and I'm using the word political in its;widest and truest sense here, reeks of the propaganda of the company line, in this case, the American Military..

I have asked you two direct questions on this forum. One you have completely ignored, the other you sidestepped and immediately answered a question i didn't ask in order to avoid the implied question you knew i was actually asking. Now I am a trained interviewer, . I asked and maybe it was a tad sly, a certain question in a certain way to specifically see how you would answer. Your answer proved to me personally, you are here, in part, out of a sense of admirable loyalty to promote a certain party line and avoid talking about certain incidents.

Your point about the ice crystals and safety revealed so much by what you didn't say. That being that, you neglected to mention safety is of a paramount importance because much of the technology NASA is forced to work with, is built down to a price not built up to a standard. As one of your very own astronauts said words to the effect of, when asked how they felt about sitting in the capsule on the launch pad. "i was acutely aware of the fact i was slitting on top of something built by the people who made the cheapest bid"..

reply to post by JimOberg


Maybe this will help answer your question.

Space Shuttle Columbia during STS-80 took a crew of five astronauts into a 17 day, 15 hour and 54 minute mission around the earth, the longest flight in the history of this vehicle. During this lengthy flight a very strange event occurred that even had crewman Dr. Story Musgrave unable to explain what he observed from the shuttle windows.

So I guess from what you have said Story Musgrave is a UFO nut.Also the last time I checked Dr Story Musgrave was an astronaut. Feel free to comment. See that I know the meaning of feel free.

Originally posted by tsurfer2000h
reply to post by JimOberg

 

Maybe this will help answer your question.

Space Shuttle Columbia during STS-80 took a crew of five astronauts into a 17 day, 15 hour and 54 minute mission around the earth, the longest flight in the history of this vehicle. During this lengthy flight a very strange event occurred that even had crewman Dr. Story Musgrave unable to explain what he observed from the shuttle windows.

So I guess from what you have said Story Musgrave is a UFO nut.Also the last time I checked Dr Story Musgrave was an astronaut. Feel free to comment. See that I know the meaning of feel free.

Interesting information on the Space Shuttle Columbia and what was observed,Now my question is this,IF one or ANY of these astronauts or others have been quoted correctly about witnessing something in space they thought had a very high level of strangeness then surely this supports the notion that the POSSIBILITY of ET visitation is a very legit claim.The possibility that we are being observed by other intelligences is by the sheer percentages of life existing else where a very real and legit perception and possibility.The probabilities enforce the percentages of a very real probability of us being observed by intelligences that can evade and out teck our current understandings.

reply to post by JimOberg


What I find funny is the fact you say he knew what the objects were yet when interviewed after the flight he watched a video of the incident and could not explain what was being seen. So what's with that two different people and two different stories so who do we believe? feel free to comment.

reply to post by JimOberg


I don't want to forget this which is from Dr.Musgrave himself.

"I don't know what it is. Whether it's a washer, debris, ice particles, I don't know. But it's characteristic of the thousands of things which I've seen. What is not so characteristic is it appears to come from no where. You would think that if it's facing the dark side or facing a side towards you which is not reflecting the sun, you would think that you would see something there. It's really impressive."

Now what does he mean when he said this. but these objects were reflecting sunlight as you said so what is the real story his comments he made in an interview or the comments you say he told you.

Originally posted by tsurfer2000h
reply to post by JimOberg

 

What I find funny is the fact you say he knew what the objects were yet when interviewed after the flight he watched a video of the incident and could not explain what was being seen. So what's with that two different people and two different stories so who do we believe? feel free to comment.

Ah very good point, i see the logic in this question.So we have two different stories??Why do we have two different stories, what one is disinformation??As usual when ever any one of a certain creditability comes out with information relating to UFOs it always ends up with attacks of mis- quotes or even the source retracting or denying what was said.The best way of covering any thing up is to muddy the waters with disinformation or remind those that do speak out that they are OWNED and it would really be in their own interests to "retract" or say nothing.

reply to post by K-PAX-PROT


I know that some people agree with me on the fact that we surely are not the only inhabitants of the universe. There are just way to many planets out there. In fact there may be planets that have inhabitants that have not even evolved technically as far as we have.I find it funny that people make the comment about why would ET's that are more advanced than we are want to come to this planet and observe us.Well my thing is why do we want to go to other planets and observe what is on it? My answer would be they are curious about things they do not know.Just like we dive in the ocean and research things we don't know about. They say we don't even come close to knowing what our oceans contain. I think that we are being watched and infact having contact with certain races of aliens some may be out to help us before we kill ourselves and this planet, but I also think there are those who could care less about what happens to the inhabitants of this planet. and that is a scary thought.

Originally posted by tsurfer2000h
reply to post by JimOberg

 

What I find funny is the fact you say he knew what the objects were yet when interviewed after the flight he watched a video of the incident and could not explain what was being seen.

Sure he could, and did, if you read what he said. It was like stuff they see out the window all the time, with known prosaic causes.

He was puzzled by the way some dots seemed to suddenly 'appear'. It is indeed puzzling, if you don't know the sunlight illumination conditions of the sequence. And that information was withheld from him.

Note that this was clearly the first time he'd ever seen this sequence. This sorta puts the nails in the coffin of the phony claim, which a number of recent posters have proudly proclaimed their utter confidence in, that Musgrave (or any other STS-80 crewmember) was watching out the window when this scene unfolded. If so he would have recognized the scene when it was showed to him by the TV people.

I have argued that such an eyewitnessing claim is totally bogus, imagined out of thin air (or orbital vacuum) by the person who wrote the original story. Thanks for citing an interview which perfectly validates my position on that.

When I was able to determine the conditions based on the shuttle's orbit, and presented Musgrave with that analysis (which he could check), he readily agreed that this was the explanation of the puzzling appearance of some dots. Stuff drifting out of the shadowed zone across the middle of the field of view.

You can try this at home yourself. Set up a bright point light source, use your own head to cast a shadow, and observe dust motes floating into and out of the shadow. Just make sure that the light behind you is also not bouncing off some surface around you and back into the shadow zone.

So what's with that two different people and two different stories so who do we believe? feel free to comment.

The difference is that when vital information and context of a space video is omitted (or deliberately withheld), people can be puzzled and confused by it -- as recent posts here also demonstrate.

AND -- that an investigation into the illumination conditions and spacecraft activities/functions as context for any such video is crucial to adequately understanding and selecting among competing explanations.

I might add that UFO proponents to my knowledge have never even bothered to try to find out such stuff. They like the conclusions they jump to, and the less they really KNOW about the sequence, the better for their point of view. They also want to keep the rest of you NOT knowing or believing this stuff.

Look at all the hostility around here aimed at anyone actually looking at these hidden facts. Folks are being urged to stay ignorant, keep the blinders on, don't look at the entity behind the curtain.... Then you can merrily believe these videos can only be caused by aliens.

That is the correct recipe for that belief, as it turns out -- IMHO.

Major ingredient, ignorance. Minor ingrediemnt, refusal to admit to the possibility of any ignorance.

Originally posted by cushycrux
reply to post by Gygar

 

The Ufo looking thing at the end of the video look very like (yes it look extremely crazy) Hyperion, A Saturn Moon:

And other look like the first thing in the video with the correct sunlight direction:

I can see that. To me the craziest part of that video is the object that completely distorts the space around it when it moves through the rings.