"Newborn child taken away because of a bagel"

reply to post by ripcontrol


I am sure that most of the people that DID work for the gestapo, thought they were morally and ethically correct to be doing so.

But, ftr, I never said you worked for the gestapo. You're the one that associated the gestapo with CPS.

Originally posted by ripcontrol
fight cps.com

Thanks for this link.

I just cannot join the fight against child protective services. That would be saying I don't want children protected. In most cases, the child protective services have saved children from abuse. If the police are called the children always feel that they are the one being arrested. CPS does have experts, but they do make mistakes. The cops would make even more mistakes. I wonder when someone will have the guts to ask "Do drug users have the right to raise children?" I think they should have this right. I do not want to pay taxes to pay the casual drug user's court ordered foster parents and jail time.

These are videos of news reports about what is going on in the state of Kentucky:

While researching this issue I'm seeing lots of references online to the Adoption and Safe Families Act of 1997 and the associated federal money that is going to states as an incentive to encourage adoption of children from foster care.

Maybe the sponsors of the legislation had good intentions; I don't know. But the money is being sought for cash-strapped local governments.

Step one is getting the children into foster care. Step two get the adoption. Step three get the money.

care to explain any of these videos

Originally posted by Mary Rose
reply to post by IrishCream

 

IrishCream,

Thank you for taking the time to share this story. This is probably the most meaningful, important post I've ever read.

Thank you soo very much for this Mary Rose, this has been the thorn in our family's side for quite a long time now! My sister would have been an excellent mother and sometimes, it is the child that saves the parent, ya know? My sister desperately needed that one person who was solely dependant on her to make good choices. She needed to live for someone instead of dying for herself!

Our childhood was rough to say the least, but at some point you grow up and realize that every one has "sh*t" and you can then learn from it and move on to greener pastures! Growing up and having children of your own is one of the best ways to accomplish this because then you can really see what sacrifices your parents made (or didn't)! Only after you have children of your own are you able to connect with what your parents went through or you disconnect from them because you see a million better choices that could have been made!

I will NOT down-play the amount of child abuse that happens in this country and around the world, people can be down right vile! In fact, I know someone who is the very worst parent I've ever encountered and she has had CPS called on her too many times to count, a few times by myself, and nothing ever happened! Her children are older now and in a heap of trouble, sorely lacking life skills. Her 13 year old son is no longer a virgin, he drinks and smokes pot regularly... and these are only the things we are aware of ! She has pulled her daughter's arm out of the socket, spilt her son's forehead open with a VHS tape and even strangled him till he all but passed out! They never even opened a case on her, yet my sister has no children and is a shell of a human being!

It ain't right I tell ya, it just ain't right!!

reply to post by ripcontrol


WOW, I had no idea we had any rights left at all, seriously!! Yes, unfortunately, they guilted her into signing over her parental rights. As for the DNA paternity testing, I'm just not sure. I think they said that in the first case: paternity was not determined. The way my sister was living at the time of conception left alot to be desired, so I guess that one is anyone's guess. With the second one they did establish paternity, but he was soooo scared because he was a casual pot smoker! They made him feel like he should just walk away and let the proper people take care of the baby!! I'm assuming he signed over his rights too ?!

Thank you for the link and the info, I will look it all over and share this with my sister! You sir are worth your weight in gold!!

We're surrounded by morons.

Originally posted by earthdude
I just cannot join the fight against child protective services. That would be saying I don't want children protected. In most cases, the child protective services have saved children from abuse. If the police are called the children always feel that they are the one being arrested. CPS does have experts, but they do make mistakes. The cops would make even more mistakes. I wonder when someone will have the guts to ask "Do drug users have the right to raise children?" I think they should have this right. I do not want to pay taxes to pay the casual drug user's court ordered foster parents and jail time.

I could understand you not wanting to join the fight against CPS if they actually did more good than harm, but that is not the case.
A child is 11 times more likely be abused in foster care and 7 times more likely to die!!! How is that protecting the children?
It is extremely rare for a truly abused child to receive the aid of CPS.
I have seen children ripped from the arms off good parents and I have seen children who are truly being abused completely ignored my CPS.

A childhood friend of mine had her children taken a way by CPS after she got a little zealous while protecting her child. Her only crime was making a bad choice in whom to date, when the man struck the child she struck back at him. She called the police on the guy, they were both arrested. While in foster care her 4 year old daughter was raped.
I have heard many more cases just like this.

This is a must read
Study: Why child abuse investigations don't help kids.

reply to post by Beach Bum


please elaborate...

I am more then curious over your thoughts on this....

@ irichcreme I will have more later... I have to go do some things real quick it will probably be tommorow

Originally posted by Mary Rose
Any test the hospital does should be with the prior written consent of the patient or the parent of a minor child. That’s what liberty is about.

When you go to the Hospital for whatever, child birth, the ER for a broken arm etc, the paperwork you fill out is called consent to treat. When you check in and go through all the paperwork, you gave the Hospital permission to treat you, which includes blood work.

Definition of Liberty:

Liberty is the concept of ideological and political philosophy that identifies the condition to which an individual has the right to behave according to one's own personal responsibility and free will.

When you go to the Hospital, its by your choice. Once there, its your choice to tell the triage nurse what your symptons are. It is your choice to give your personal information to the admitting clerk to get you in the system. Its your choice to wait in the ER lobby for 5 hours because they are busy. Its your choice to go to the room and change into a gown. Its your choice to allow them to collect blood / urine / xrays or whatever other test they might need to diagnose you. Its your choice to follow the Doctors orders, or if you disagree, its your choice to leave.

So can we please get over the misapplication about Liberty. It has in no way, shape or form been violated.

If you are again referring to the child's liberty your argument has a problem - The age of the child. The child is under the age of 18 years old. Unless you are 18 or older you cannot make medical decisions for yourself, instead that goes to the Parents. In this case, the parents and the child are still in the Hospital, with medical staff performing their job with consent of parents - See above with liberty response.

Originally posted by Mary Rose
I’ve heard reports of this being abused, as well. They’re being used to fish for and trick people into revealing information that can be used as a pretext to remove a child.

It's irresponsible to make a blanket statement as you just did. CPS / DFS are not federal, but state, and as such the area they perform their jobs in differs from state to state. You fail to understand that the ramifications behind being a mandatory reporter. If a hospital visit shows even the slightest possibility that an injury / problem / condition is something other than from everyday activities, medical is required to report it. Its then up to DFS / CPS and Law Enforcement to investigate it. It does not mean there is a problem, nor does it mean the child will be taken.

While I understand your point of view and zeal, I respectfully suggest you learn the laws for the State you are in before making accusations. The other thing to keep in mind is most websites you can get information from about this topic, will be incomplete to the reporting entity. HIPAA prevents the disclosure of a person medical history, so even though they are saying the child was taken, they are assuming what the cause is by doing a leap of logic to fill in the blanks they can't get.

Originally posted by Mary Rose
“Parental units.” Very strange terminology. Why not just say “parents”? Parental units makes them sound like robots or something.

Lol its from the movie the coneheads. I did it to deescalate some of the tension on this topic in the thread.

Originally posted by Mary Rose
What case are you talking about? The immediately preceding case of the infant with injuries?

Then the case this thread is about might be kidnapping; you’re not sure?

Uhm ok.. I am positive I know what I am talking about because I am following the discussion in the thread. If you did as well, you would see you actually answered my response to calstorm, who was talking about how its kidnapping. I explained to him it was not, and proceeded to explain how an investigation can go. Since CPS and LEO's are involved in this situation, it is a case for the investigators.

Originally posted by Mary Rose
This reminds me of what the government is doing with every single phone call we make: filtering them all with software looking for key words such as “terrorist” that they can then follow up on. This is not being done to keep us safe, but as part of the phony war on terror, which is part of the controller’s New World Order agenda.

Why does everything have to be a conspiracy theory involving the Government. If people would do research into ALL side of a topic, including State Laws and Federal Laws, we wouldn't have nearly as many paranoid people. Also we would not have people making accusations that are lacking in fact and basis because of a perceived notion about how laws work, and the way others think they should work.

There is a serious fundamental problem about people knowing their rights. I see due process, liberty, and other statements that are not being used correctly, nor in the right context. I implore people to research and gain knowledge, or at least clarify some of the views people have about law / government.

I make the suggestion with the utmost respect to the people in the forum here. It's not intended to be degrading or anything like that. Its just a friendly suggestion..

Originally posted by Mary Rose
The controllers of this world are eugenicists. They have their own agenda for testing humans without their permission.

Care to back that statement up with facts and documentation, or are we just going to use the 100 meter rush to judgment to make a blanket statement that is untrue?

Also a word on due process. The child is under the age of 18, which means he/she can't make medical decisions on their own, instead relying on the parents to look out for the child s well being. The child is not being charged with a crime, so there is no due process violation, nor is a 4th amendment violation.

If a child is removed and placed into protective custody there is a very small window, usually 12 hours, that DFS / CPS are required to go before a judge and explain the situation. A judge will then decide if it meets criteria to keep the child away from the parents until the end of the investigation. As I stated before, that side of this, DFS, is extremely pressed for time to produce evidence that supports their claims.

Originally posted by Beach Bum
We're surrounded by morons.

\
But they have the answers and can spell moron correctly:
wiki.answers.com...

reply to post by Xcathdra


Giving permission to a hospital to treat for what you went there for is not the same as giving them carte blanche to draw blood for whatever reason.

State and federal are becoming merged in the U.S. Not just for medical care but in all areas. Our federal government is also under the thumb of the U.N. The NWO controllers are sending out mandates through the U.N. that are simply being rubber-stamped. This is a huge topic that goes way beyond just CPS.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
In order for me to remove a child, there has to be evidence present that the child's life is in immediate danger if we were to leave them with the parental units. The times I have had to take protective custody of a child, the evidence presented to me by the Doctor was very specific (spiral arm breaks, hip bone / pelvis breakage, etc). Just because we are called doesn't mean we will take.

I am amazed that you chose to joke about the coneheads in this answer.

You think that joking will deescalate the tension?

I hope the tension remains, but it should be respectful. I will try my best.

Regarding due process - as far as I'm concerned, the only due process for the removal of a child would have to take place before the child is removed. Any talk about all the rules that are followed after the child is removed is irrelevant.

Regarding eugenics, see Alex Jones' bibliography for Chapter 5: Blue Print for Extermination for the documentary Endgame.

Alan Watt also talks about eugenics based on his extensive reading. See these search results for his website cuttingthroughthematri x.com.

RE: The 15 year old's testimony in the video above

SO COMMON.
Don't get me started on all the drugs, drugs, drugs they put these kids on.
And often the parents....see, if you get tagged by them, and they order you to have services, you WILL have those services if you ever want to see your kids again. If you don't comply with their plan, forget it.

That's another money angle. See, all these folks, they work together. I never worked for CPS but for DHS in mental health. There's SO much overlap between social services and psychiatric services and a ton of moonlighting. It's not just about money that the govt. gives for placement, it's also about ordering people into services against their will, putting money in what might be your best friend's pocket if it is a small town. Lots of people work for DHS/CPS during the day, 9-5, or as a consultant doing evauluations, then have their 'services' offerings, IE Psychology Associates - ANGER MANAGMENT CLASS -on days off and after work. Some of the folks I knew with master's in social work would hold jobs with local ERs, with CPS, with DHS and then private practice. In reality, I never saw them do much of anything for anyone. lol

reply to post by hadriana


Is DHS the Department of Human Services and is it state or federal?

Originally posted by Mary Rose
reply to post by hadriana

 

Is DHS the Department of Human Services and is it state or federal?

DHS is department of human services and in this case I am referring to the STATE department.

Originally posted by Mary Rose
Giving permission to a hospital to treat for what you went there for is not the same as giving them carte blanche to draw blood for whatever reason.

Actually it is. When you go to the Hospital they run tests you authorized to figure out what the problem is. The blood draw is the most common. basic, test performed. The consent for treatment form allows it. Blood work is by far the fastest way to check to see if there are problems / complications / disease / deficiencies / blood disorders etc etc. This test is even more important on newborns.

Also, the other reason blood is drawn is for patient safety. Not all patients are honest about their drug use, and will lie about it because they think medical will call the police (They can't). The blood test will show if drugs (illegal and Legal) are present. They do this to ensure any medication given to mom, or baby (since drugs can transfer to child while in the womb) will not react with other drugs, legal or illegal. Failure to do this, coupled with medication being administered to the patient, could result in disaster, up to and including killing the patient.

The intentions are not sinister by the Hospital.

Originally posted by Mary Rose
State and federal are becoming merged in the U.S. Not just for medical care but in all areas. Our federal government is also under the thumb of the U.N. The NWO controllers are sending out mandates through the U.N. that are simply being rubber-stamped. This is a huge topic that goes way beyond just CPS.

I respectfully disagree. There is no State - Federal merger taking place since they do completely different functions. Plus it would be a violation of the Constitution

The U.N. has absolutely no authority over the U.S. The U.N. has any connection to in the United States are several parks in the form of a World Heritage site.

I am not following how we went from CPS, the the U.N., to the NWO and the takeover of the U.S.

Originally posted by Mary Rose
I am amazed that you chose to joke about the coneheads in this answer.

You think that joking will deescalate the tension?

I hope the tension remains, but it should be respectful. I will try my best.

You will find people who work in Law Enforcement / EMS have a unique sense of humor. Its a psychological thing. If you saw and had to deal with the stuff in our line of work, you have to find a coping mechanism. Humor / sarcasm is one of those ways. If you don't find a mechanism, it causes issue.

I'm cool with the tension so no worries there. You seemed very passionate about the article and its hard to read the tone / intention of the posts. I didn't want to come across as being an ass or dismissive, so I tried some humor.

Originally posted by Mary Rose
Regarding due process - as far as I'm concerned, the only due process for the removal of a child would have to take place before the child is removed. Any talk about all the rules that are followed after the child is removed is irrelevant.

It is, as I have stated before about the paperwork. There is a one page form /Doctors/LEO's get that we fill out. It our information, the reason for the protective custody, and an area where we explain the circumstances behind it.
Once we are done with the form, we can take action. Also, as I stated before, doing this is extreme, and we must be able to articulate the exigent circumstance for our action. This is one of the reasons why we must present before a judge within 12 hours.

Originally posted by Mary Rose
Regarding eugenics, see Alex Jones' bibliography for Chapter 5: Blue Print for Extermination for the documentary Endgame.

Alan Watt also talks about eugenics based on his extensive reading. See these search results for his website cuttingthroughthematri x.com.

m'kay

reply to post by Xcathdra


What about the cases where there is no medical report. Someone makes a call to CPS, a social worker goes out to investigate and decides on removal. There is no other "evidence" Outside the social workers report, which is not evidence at all.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
When you go to the Hospital they run tests you authorized to figure out what the problem is.

Sending blood off to a DNA database is not for the benefit of the patient.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
There is no State - Federal merger taking place since they do completely different functions. Plus it would be a violation of the Constitution.

This is a huge topic and since you don't seem to be aware of what's going on I don't know where to start.

Yes, it would be a violation of the Constitution. There are numerous things going on that are a violation of the Constitution. Such as the Patriot Acts, etc., etc. etc.

I'm not going to give you links. Do your own research.

~~~~~~

For the last time, regarding due process, the only thing I consider due process in relationship to this thread, is for a hearing to take place in a court of law where the parents are present with their attorney representing that child before any action is taken.