Another nist FOIA LOBBY Exlosion witnesses video

reply to post by impressme


Impressme, what do you believe the 9/11 Commission Report was for? For investigating how and why the WTCs collapsed, or for the intel failures and bungling of information and negligence by numerous agencies right up until the events occurring on 9/11?

What I am trying to straighten out is exactly WHAT the Commission Report was for. Some continuously claim that the Report failed to explain the collapses of the WTCs. That is not what the Commission was set up for. NIST and FEMA did that job.

As to what the 9/11 Commission did or didnt do, its plainly obvious that whole thing is a CYA moment and trying to hide the numerous blunders, ignorance, stupidity, ineptitude, and sheer neglegance committed by so many that should be protecting our country and stopping such things from happening. If that is what people believe is the real "conspiracy", I can believe that and also wish that those responsible for it be brought to justice or some form of punishment, just like those that orchestrated the massive stock market crash and having this housing bubble burst, and bank failures, etc etc etc. Is that going to happen? I doubt it.

So what exactly are you trying to find out via a "new investigation"? Why the blunders and intel bungling happened, or trying to find out who planted/painted magic thermite that silently and powerfully explodes on the WTCs? Because I'll sign on for the first one, but the second one I think is way off of reality.

Take a look back to an earlier quote from I believe TrueFalse:

So translated you dont know if there were explosions and you dont know were they originated from. Sound like the Commission Report.

And it hasent been the first time I have seen truthers referring to the Commission Report as the report as the one investigating the collapses of the WTC and everythign happening to the WTCs.

reply to post by GenRadek


I should know better to even respond, however…GenRadek, this thread is not about what you think of Truthers!

Your excuses for 911 to have happened was “blunders, ignorance, stupidity, ineptitude, and sheer negligence committed by so many that should be protecting our country and stopping such things from happening.” You mean to say that our military, the greatest military on the planet, could not stop19 alleged cave dwellers who couldn’t pass a written exam in flying and landing a Cessna 172 on 911. Never in the history of the USA have four commercial airliners flown off their given course without NORAD or the military intervening with in minuets, I could except the first plane getting away BUT all four planes in one hour? This is not just about CYA, this is absolute nonsense! Something is seriously wrong because none of the usual protocols were followed that day for the first time in American history. In the end, the only answers Americans got was a book of lies, and excuses, called the 911 Commission Report.

So what exactly are you trying to find out via a "new investigation"? Why the blunders and intel bungling happened, or trying to find out who planted/painted magic thermite that silently and powerfully explodes on the WTCs? Because I'll sign on for the first one, but the second one I think is way off of reality.

Yet, many of you defend these lies by insulting and ridiculing the truth that science has proven and what most likely happened on 911 including the demolition of all three WTC. The insane garbage some of you OS defenders spew not only makes no sense, but is not even logical to begin with. Some of you find it absolutely necessary to insult the Truth movement, including people sitting on the fence about what happened on 911, by continually twisting all the facts, reports, and sciences, because none of you can prove anything other than these.

You can believe in the government fairytales but don’t try to convince me that your lies are true, I have done years of research on the subject and the fact is most people cannot handle the truth and you obviously are one of them.

reply to post by impressme

You mean to say that our military, the greatest military on the planet, could not stop19 alleged cave dwellers who couldn’t pass a written exam in flying and landing a Cessna 172 on 911.

Ok, right there we have three errors that the truthers have not fixed yet:
#1: Our military is not on DEFCON 2 setting where we have hundreds of fighter jets and bombers ready on standby, with engines spooling up on the runways, on 5 minute alerts, ready to intercept Soviet Bombers coming over the Canadian airspace and from the oceans, like how it was during the Cold War with Russia. It especially wasnt ready to deal with flights being hijacked INTERNALLY in our our very own airspace and being used as weapons, as those have been extremely rare. In most of the hijackings done in the 20th century, 99% of the time, the hijackers demanded a ransom and the SOP was to comply with hijacker demands, and usually passengers were let off without incident and hijcakers were stopped. There has never been a hijacking of an aircraft where the hijacked aircraft was shot down on purpose because it was threat. Find me ONE instance of it happening in the US in the last 75 years. As far as on 9/11, the beginnings of the plot, it was appearing to be a "standard" hijacking procedure, and NOBODY was expecting the aircraft to be used as flying weapons. Hence, our military was in NO position to stop anything, since it all happened too fast and we were not on a 24/7 war footing, with jets ready to take off in minutes of getting to order to scramble, and being armed to take down flights IN our airspace. Norad and our air defence systems were trained to spot INCOMING aircraft threats from over seas. Not from inside our own borders.

#2: The hijackers were not cavemen. This is a pathetic and lame assumption which is totally untrue and just another LIE being pushed forward by the truthers and you are continuing this lie. (Why do truthers have a hard time with the truth when they lie so much?). Atta was a graduate of Cairo University with a degree in engineering and was studying later at the Technical Schools of Hamburg. Hanjur studied at the University of Arizona for a few months. He also attained an FAA Commercial Pilot License, but his English was not good enough. Many of them fought in battles in Chechnia before coming together for the attacks, and they were "battle trained". Saeed al-Ghamdi went to college, before dropping out and joining the radical jihadist armies. Ziad Jarrah was born to a very wealthy family and was brought up with a lot of money. He was also studying aerospace engineering in Hamburg. Khalid al-Mihdhar was a son of a very prominent family in Mecca. Majed Moqed was a law student in Saudi Arabia. The others also had either finished college or were studying in college before dropping out and joining the terrorist groups, and fighting in Chechnia. They dont sound like cavemen to me. Be sure to get these facts straightened out and stop continuing to spread the lie that these terrorists were nothing more than uneducated cavemen.

#3 So they were going to land the planes? Really? Cause I thought their mission was to take plane and crash into building. Who cares about landing right when you are not going to be landing at all? The Kamikazies of WWII werent really tought how to land, just take off and fly and aim and crash. Hell the hijackers already didnt need to take off, just take over.

Wow! First sentence and already three mistakes that needed fixing.

Never in the history of the USA have four commercial airliners flown off their given course without NORAD or the military intervening with in minuets, I could except the first plane getting away BUT all four planes in one hour? This is not just about CYA, this is absolute nonsense! Something is seriously wrong because none of the usual protocols were followed that day for the first time in American history. In the end, the only answers Americans got was a book of lies, and excuses, called the 911 Commission Report.

Okeydokey, so where was our air defences and air force when in Sept. 1994, Frank Eugene Corder stole a Cessna and managed to fly and crash right next to the White House, right under Bill's bedroom window? Why didnt those magical missile batteries open up and shoot it down? Its a Cessna! Top speed less than 200mph. Come on, it was even detected on radar! Our Mach 2 fighters couldnt stop it either. Another example: Golfer Payne Stewert. It took nearly an hour to intercept his plane and he was travelling in a Learjet. Should have been easy to catch. So no, once again you have been misinformed (lied to) about how things are done, by those damned fool conspiracy sites.

You can believe in the government fairytales but don’t try to convince me that your lies are true, I have done years of research on the subject and the fact is most people cannot handle the truth and you obviously are one of them.

I'm sorry but spending years on Alex Jones Infowars, Loose Change, In Plane Site, A&E4T, PfffT, David Griffin, and the rest of the conspiracy sites that are all carbon copy sites, with the same garbage lies and half truths regurgitated over and over, is not considered research. Also, ignoring the debunker's sites, is not considered "years of research" either. In order to do so, you must come to BOTH sides of the arguement without any pre-concieved notions and beliefs, or being committed to just ONE side. also, please, point out where I lied, I am going to call you out on this impressme, right here and right now, I want you to show me where I lied. You accuse ME of lying, I want you to back that outlandish accusation with some facts, something which I know you have a problem with. So I want to see where I lied, and back it up. If not, then retract it, and apologize.

reply to post by GenRadek

#1: Our military is not on DEFCON 2 setting where we have hundreds of fighter jets and bombers ready on standby, with engines spooling up on the runways, on 5 minute alerts, ready to intercept Soviet Bombers coming over the Canadian airspace and from the oceans, like how it was during the Cold War with Russia.

I completely disagree with you. The White House and Pentagon are always protected and jets are always on standby, by nearby military bases. You always have an excuse, yet you cannot back up your opinions.

What do you think NORAD is?

like how it was during the Cold War with Russia. It especially wasnt ready to deal with flights being hijacked INTERNALLY in our our very own airspace and being used as weapons, as those have been extremely rare.

That is completely untrue and you know that, our military has been doing exercises to these events for many years and according to our government they were doing that very exercise at the pentagon, on 911, or are you going to deny this to?

Media reports earlier this year suggested that an August 2001 PDB had warned about al-Qaida's plans to hijack U.S. jetliners.

www.standdown.net...

Private Plane Flew Too Close To The White House
U.S. Air Force Jets Intercept Private Plane Straying Near White House
[color=gold]...and as per standard operating procedure:
The fighters were scrambled from nearby Andrews Air Force Base in Maryland
and they intercepted the plane, escorting it out of the area, she said.
[color=gold]Other Planes That Flew Too Close To The White House

Cessna 182 Flew Too Close To The White House
cessna182flewtooclosetothewhitehouse.htm
Frontier 737 Flew Too Close To The White House
frontier737flewtooclosetothewhitehouse.htm

The plane was detected flying down the Potomac River toward Washington when it entered restricted airspace, said Secret Service spokeswoman Jean Mitchell.
[color=gold]The fighters were scrambled from nearby Andrews Air Force Base in Maryland and they intercepted the plane, escorting it out of the area, she said.
"He was within eight miles (13 kilometres)" of the White House, she said. "It's enough to affect our emergency response plan." Armed officers took up positions on the White House lawn during the incident.
The air force jets peeled off when the plane left restricted airspace but it was tracked on radar until it landed in Siler City, N.C., for refuelling, said Dan Dluzneski, another Secret Service spokesman. The pilot allowed authorities to search the plane, and told Secret Service officers that he had been unable to contact the fighter jets.

standdown.net...

Yet, you want to convince us by given your opinion that our military does not defend our airspace, only international flights? Who are you trying to fool?

As far as on 9/11, the beginnings of the plot, it was appearing to be a "[color=gold]standard" hijacking procedure,

“[color=gold]Standard hijacking?” what do you considered a standard hijacking? If our government knew exactly when the planes were commandeered they had more than an hour to do something, don’t you agree? Why were they even allowed to take off in the first place if the government thought it was “[color=gold]appearing” to be a "standard" hijacking procedure?

NOBODY was expecting the aircraft to be used as flying weapons. Hence, our military was in NO position to stop anything, since it all happened too fast and we were not on a 24/7 war footing, with jets ready to take off in minutes of getting to order to scramble, and being armed to take down flights IN our airspace. Norad and our air defence systems were trained to spot INCOMING aircraft threats from over seas. Not from inside our own borders.

Our military was in NO position to stop anything? So we are to assume we trained our Air Force, and NORAD to sit on their Behinds and do nothing while the United States is under attack. Wow, it’s a good thing that the terrorist didn’t launch a nuclear weapon because according to you, our powerful military were never on alert and the United States does not keep our military on Constance standby, alert, or jets fueled up and ready just in case any major event might take place on American soil. Well, thank you for clearing that up for us, by giving us your “opinion”, and a wrong opinion I might add.

Norad and our air defence systems were trained to spot INCOMING aircraft threats from over seas. Not from inside our own borders.

That is completely untrue, and again in your desperate attempts to fool everyone you made up this nonsense in hoping we are all ignorant to the real facts. Perhpas, you might want to find better reading material.

"The events of September 11, 2001 demonstrated NORAD’s continued relevance to North American security. "

www.norad.mil...
www.northcom.mil...

#2: The hijackers were not cavemen. This is a pathetic and lame assumption which is totally untrue and just another LIE being pushed forward by the truthers and you are continuing this lie.

I agree we are to “assume” they were cavemen but what is one to assume when most of the 19 alleged hijackers couldn’t be identified, because it was proven they were using stolen identities and we know for a fact the FBI does not have a super duper DNA machine that filtered through all the billions of tons of the WTC dust and ashes to identify the hijackers and their DNA as they claimed. However, if anyone is lying about 911 it is our Government and many of the stanch supporters of the OS whom have been on ATS for many years, most of these individuals have been shown many of the credible proofs, and scientific evidences that the OS is a lie?

Why do truthers have a hard time with the truth when they lie so much?)

My contribution to the 911 forums and many of my threads that I have created are full of credible information from credible sources, many people support many of my views and opinions in many of the 911 discussions. Most truthers like to show “credible sources” to back most of their claims, something that many debunkers haven’t learned yet. Doing damage control for the OS by given what most OS believers usually do is to give only their “emotional opinions,” which you have well demonstrated in your posts to me and that is not getting to the truth is it?

I'm sorry but spending years on Alex Jones Infowars, Loose Change, In Plane Site, A&E4T, PfffT, David Griffin, and the rest of the conspiracy sites that are all carbon copy sites, with the same garbage lies and half truths regurgitated over and over, is not considered research. Also, ignoring the debunker's sites, is not

Most debunking web sites have been proven a hoax and are full of disinformation into protecting the OS and the many lies the government have told. Most of those websites are only “opinionated” and have little sources and are cross pollinated with other disinformation’s websites parroting the same outlandish unscientific theories’ based on over zealous patriotic OS supporters many opinions in helping to push their ridiculous conspiracies theories, like (911 Myths) that we see commonly used by many debunkers on ATS.

I agree there are those in the truth movement who do support Jones Infowars, Loose Change and others, however not all truthers subscribe to those websites many of us read real books and do our own researching without the help of Alex Jones. Many real 911 truthers do go to debunkers website as I have, and have read many of their articles only to discover they are mostly opinionated and lack any credible evidence, or sources to back the author’s opinions.
You can scoff at (Pilots for Truth and A&E,) however I have read many scientific reports that I do find very credible because science was used to support their journals. As for (Pilots for 911 Truth) I do support their hard work in getting information from the FIOA and exposing the truth. I find many Pilots opinions are more credible than some blogger defending the OS with their patriotic opinions.
Professional Pilots have an educated understanding of airplanes and instruments and what planes can do and cannot do, and so on…

pre-concieved notions and beliefs, or being committed to just ONE side.

Many of you OS supporters have demonstrated repeatedly that you are a supporter the OS by rejecting scientific evidence and credible sources many of you have demonstrated that you are one sided by ignoring questions and a continuing of hand waving at everything that goes against the OS. Many of you’re actions speak volumes.

I can say with great confidence that the excuses that are being made to protect the American government of any wrong doings and the constants of hurling insults and outright lies based on the OS supporters opinions against good decent people who just want the truth and have done their research and do presents credible sources to back many of their claims is only being done to try and discredit the messengers who are presenting the truth.

I am going to call you out on this impressme, right here and right now, I want you to show me where I lied. You accuse ME of lying, I want you to back that outlandish accusation with some facts, something which I know you have a problem with. So I want to see where I lied, and back it up. If not, then retract it, and apologize.

I do not need to, your posts to me and your opinions against inquiring people seeking the truth, speak for themselves. I do not wish to get into emotional claptrap with you, because they serve no purpose on ATS, or to our current discussion.

"It especially wasnt ready to deal with flights being hijacked INTERNALLY in our our very own airspace and being used as weapons, as those have been extremely rare."

Oh, so let's see, the most advanced military in the world is only trained to deal with predictable acts of terrorism which go by a certain script? It is not trained to deal with unconventional surprise attacks, because those instances are rare?

So how do you explain these NORAD training exercises in October of 2000?

"NORAD Exercise a Year Before 9/11 Simulated a Pilot Trying to Crash a Plane into a New York Skyscraper--The UN Headquarters"

911blogger.com...

"There has never been a hijacking of an aircraft where the hijacked aircraft was shot down on purpose because it was threat."

So, because it never happened before, means that it will never happen, right? Ever heard the saying, there's always a first time?

"As far as on 9/11, the beginnings of the plot, it was appearing to be a "standard" hijacking procedure, and NOBODY was expecting the aircraft to be used as flying weapons."

Yeah sure...that's what these people get paid to do...to respond to standard hijackings (whatever the hell a standard hijacking is). If you are dealing with defense personnel and systems who are that incompetent, than the country is in a whole lot of trouble.

"The hijackers were not cavemen. This is a pathetic and lame assumption which is totally untrue and just another LIE being pushed forward by the truthers and you are continuing this lie."

For a bunch of highly educated guys who supposedly could think for themselves, they sure as heck had no problem taking their orders from some barefoot cavemen in Afghanistan. You're right, they were not cavemen, they were slaves controlled by cavemen. Kind of kicks them down a notch from cavemen.

"So they were going to land the planes? Really? Cause I thought their mission was to take plane and crash into building."

The three alleged impacts at the WTC and the Pentagon were a lot more complicated than just landing the planes, since these alleged planes were traveling at well over 500 MPH. In fact, that little stunt at the Pentagon is downright impossible, considering that decorated Air Force Pilots would have had a very difficult time accomplishing it with an aircraft that is not designed to maneuver that well at that high rate of speed at such a low altitude.

But anyway, it's amazing what you can accomplish with the help of Allah and some other friends at "high places".

Here is another article detailing how the country's defense forces were well aware of airplanes potentially being used as weapons BEFORE 9/11.

'Rehearsing 9/11: How Training Exercises Foretold the Attacks of September 11'

shoestring911.blogspot.com...

If you believe professional liars like Bush and Rice who say that this scenario could not have been imagined, then you must be one gullible idiot whose stupidity has no limits.

"But this video looks entirely phoney to me. This couple are supposed to have just escaped from one of the Towers and are in the process of washing the dust from their faces. But look at the surroundings; they are just on the edge of a park with people casually strolling about and playing in the background. They are the only ones caked in dust. Where are the dust clouds ? the panic ? the sirens ? Anyone know where that park is?"

Please take a look at pictures gjs-wtc115, gjs-wtc116 and gjs-wtc117 on the following link:

www.flickr.com...

If you magnify photo gjs-wtc116, you can notice that this interview of the witnesses was being conducted near the gazebo (with the square light green top with an "X" on it) which is located on the top right of the photo. I believe this location is in Battery Park City, which is several blocks from the WTC.

Pictures gjs-wtc115 shows that there has already been a collapse of the building(s) and the dust cloud did not travel to that location, possibly because of the wind direction and also being blocked by the buildings surrounding the park.

Maybe next time you should spend a little more time doing some real investigation (if you know how to), before you jump to absurd conclusions which make you look like you're not exactly the sharpest tool in the shed. Or even worse, these knee jerk reactions/conclusions make you look like you have an obvious agenda to discredit any piece of evidence which does not fit into your precious official fairy tale. Whatever the case, you need to up your game and stop making debunkers look like a bunch of gullible morons.

reply to post by impressme




That is all I can do when you post your response, when you dont even bother reading your own (nor do the truthers who posted it first) sources about the intercepts. I'm going to take a little bit from each one, and see if you can follow the common theme:

Jet Violates White House Airspace

BBC News, April 3, 2002:
-------------------------------------------------
U.S. Air Force Jets Intercept Private Plane
Straying Near White House

Terrance Hunt, Canadian Press, November 10, 2003
----------------------------------------------------
Secret Service Hides Cheney As Plane Enters Restricted Area

by Richard W. Stevenson, The New York Times, November 11, 2003
-----------------------------------------------------

Now for the little bonus help:

When was 9/11? 2001.
How many times were fighter jets scrambled to intercept planes pre-9/11/2001?
How many times were fighter jets scrambled to intercept planes post - 9/11/2001?
If there were intercepts, where did they occur in the 10 years before and where were they originally trained to go (targeted) before 9/11/2001?

Now cue the Jeparody theme, and lets see who can figure out where you are wrong you are in your post.

(This is what happens when you just copy and paste from a truther site, without doing any REAL research into it to see if what they say is true. Had you done this corretly, you would not have started to look foolish)
So, answer me how many fighter jets were actually sent on interceptions of planes pre-9/11. Let me repeat that for those hard of reading comprehension: How many times have there been fighter jets scrambled to intercept planes over US soil or in US air space, BEFORE 9/11/2001.

“Standard hijacking?” what do you considered a standard hijacking? If our government knew exactly when the planes were commandeered they had more than an hour to do something, don’t you agree? Why were they even allowed to take off in the first place if the government thought it was “appearing” to be a "standard" hijacking procedure?

en.wikipedia.org...

Here is an easy to read list of hijackings pre-9/11/2001. Now go through the list and find the common theme in nearly 99.99% of the events. Boy if you actually DID do any research, this too would have beenn obvious, and you wouldnt be spouting off such ignorant nonsense.

Our military was in NO position to stop anything? So we are to assume we trained our Air Force, and NORAD to sit on their Behinds and do nothing while the United States is under attack. Wow, it’s a good thing that the terrorist didn’t launch a nuclear weapon because according to you, our powerful military were never on alert and the United States does not keep our military on Constance standby, alert, or jets fueled up and ready just in case any major event might take place on American soil. Well, thank you for clearing that up for us, by giving us your “opinion”, and a wrong opinion I might add.

Its not an opinion comrade. It's a fact. Prove to me I am wrong. Dont just say so with your trademark heavy dose of personal incredulity. Ok, lets say a missile is launched. Pre-9/11/2001, our NORAD defenses were aimed to watch for targets from OVERSEAS approaching US air space. What does that include? Incoming missiles, aircraft, launched from areas in foreign countries and maybe seas and oceans. During and ever since the Cold War, our military was to defend us from threats coming EXTERNALLY, meaning from foreign countries. Not someone launching a missile from inside US borders or an airplane taking off from an airport and targeting a building in the US. Just to show how "great" our military is, remember the "barefoot bandit" just recently caught? He stole numerous aircraft, and managed everytime to slip right by and was NEVER intercepted by fighter jets. What if he had onboard a WMD? Or was aiming to hit a building? Who intercepted the crazy guy in Texas that crashed into an IRS building? Or the plane that hit a building in Florida? Who intercepted the plane that nearly crashed into the White House? You havent even answered me THAT.

Most truthers like to show “credible sources” to back most of their claims, something that many debunkers haven’t learned yet.

Its really hard to type and laugh at the same time here. Thanks for that hilareous bit, just what I needed this morning, is a good laugh. Ok ok, enough laughing. Really? Credible Sources? You mean like a person with a doctorat in theology is a credible source on skyscraper engineering, fire sciences, metallurgy, and structural engineering? Oh sorry, I said I wouldnt laugh any more. You mean credible sources like Alex Jones and Dylan from Loose Change? Stop it stop it, you're killing me here!!

Most debunking web sites have been proven a hoax and are full of disinformation into protecting the OS and the many lies the government have told. Most of those websites are only “opinionated” and have little sources and are cross pollinated with other disinformation’s websites parroting the same outlandish unscientific theories’ based on over zealous patriotic OS supporters many opinions in helping to push their ridiculous conspiracies theories, like (911 Myths) that we see commonly used by many debunkers on ATS.

Proven a hoax? Really? By whom? You? Your incredulity? Just what was proven a hoax? Shall I link you to the actual sites and you point out to me which topics are proven hoaxes or lies? Are you going to back this up or is this another one of your incredulous opinions?

I do not need to, your posts to me and your opinions against inquiring people seeking the truth, speak for themselves. I do not wish to get into emotional claptrap with you, because they serve no purpose on ATS, or to our current discussion.

Ahh I got ya. So you cant prove anything I said is a lie, so you make a dash for it, and hope to god nobody noticed. So you are not going to point out any lies I allegedly have said? Why not? I mean, it should be easy for you to point out a couple, especially if you have done so much research into this topic, it should be so easy for you to point out where and what I said isnt true. Come on now, go for it! I'm giving you a chance to back it up, with credible sources! You just got through saying how most "truthers" use credible sources, so are you one of them? Come now and point out wher eanythign I said was a lie. I'm giving you another chance. Take it.

reply to post by GenRadek

When was 9/11? 2001.
How many times were fighter jets scrambled to intercept planes pre-9/11/2001?
How many times were fighter jets scrambled to intercept planes post - 9/11/2001?
If there were intercepts, where did they occur in the 10 years before and where were they originally trained to go (targeted) before 9/11/2001?

NORAD and our Military did not make every interception public knowledge.
Because the media rarely broadcast this information to the civilian population, it does not mean NORAD was not intercepting planes flying off their given courses before 911. Our military has intercepted many planes flying off their given courses including planes transporting drugs.

Cheyenne Mountain: America's underground watch tower

One ongoing mission of the Battle Management Center is to coordinate "air sovereignty" efforts, monitoring every aircraft that enters U.S. or Canadian airspace -- some 2.5 million a year. NORAD is asked to investigate aircraft that do not file flight plans, contact ground controllers or identify themselves with transponders
In the post-Cold War era, NORAD's aircraft-tracking mission has included monitoring drug-smuggling flights, as well as flights by the Cuban exile group Brothers to the Rescue

web.archive.org...://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/cold.war/experience/the.bomb/route/01.cheyenne/

[color=gold]The Border Guards
NORAD: The eyes and ears of North America
It began as a tiny blip.
Airmen monitoring radar scopes at the Northeast Air Defense Sector in Griffiss AFB, N.Y., spotted a track not matching any filed flight plans. At about 3 a.m. on [color=gold]Jan. 24, 1989, they made repeated attempts to contact the pilot for identification, but were unsuccessful.
Consequently, the sector director issued the order to "scramble the Eagles." Within five minutes two F-15 Eagles from Det. 1, 102nd Fighter Interceptor Wing, screamed out of the now-closed Loring AFB in northern Maine, searching for the "unknown rider."
What the Air National Guard pilots discovered was a small twin-engine prop plane that was blacked outexterior and interior lights shut offand not responding to the radio. The guardsmen later learned the pilot was Diego Jose Ganuza, a narcotics smuggler working for Colombia's Medellin drug cartel. He was ferrying 500 kilograms of coc aine with a street value of about $200 million.

As a result of this intercept and another made a month later by the Vermont Air Guard, U.S. Customs busted a $1 billion narcotics ring run by drug lord Pablo Escobar and disrupted the flow of coc aine into our country.
NORAD is a joint U.S. and Canadian command employing servicemembers from all of the military branches. It's headquartered at Peterson AFB with its operation center inside Cheyenne Mountain, both at Colorado Springs. Using a global web of radar, ground sensors, satellites, aerostat blimps and Airborne Warning and Control System surveillance aircraft, these guardians of our airspace scout the skies in search of unidentified aircraft, missile launches, space objects and falling space debris.

web.archive.org...://www.af.mil/news/airman/0196/border.htm

The NORAD Battle Management Center tracks nearly 3
million aircraft a year to prevent any overflight by hostile
aircraft and to detect cruise missile threats. Relevant? The
center tracked 670 "unknowns" in 1997, many of them
suspected drug traffickers. The center tracks these "UFOs,"
then turns such information over to other agencies, such as
the Drug Enforcement Administration, for action.

web.archive.org...://www.defenselink.mil/news/Apr1998/n04241998_9804241.html

Golfer Payne Stewart Dies in Jet Crash

During some of its eerie, almost four-hour journey from Orlando to a swampy grassland in South Dakota, the Learjet was shadowed by Air Force and Air National Guard jet fighters, whose pilots reported that the aircraft's windows were frosted over, suggesting that it had lost pressurization. The Air Force pilots also reported that the Learjet meandered from as low as 22,000 feet to as high as 51,000 feet, but never strayed from a northwest heading.
The military aircraft were not armed with air-to-air missiles, and Pentagon officials said they never considered shooting down the Learjet.

www.washingtonpost.com...

I would recommend instead of insulting, and goading people as you always do, that you should do some real research on the topic, and try and respect other people.

ATTENTION The thread topic is Another nist FOIA LOBBY Ex[p]losion witnesses video.

Please debate this topic and not each other.

reply to post by GenRadek


Your information seems to be a little bit out of sync with reality bud. You and your homeys believe whatever you read on those damned fool official 911 story websites.

You are sadly mistaken if you actually believe that four commercial airliners escaped the attention of NORAD and all of our military. In fact, you brilliant OS beweevers reported over and over that NORAD was conducting war games over NYC on the morning of 911!!! NOT!!!

Air Defenses Faltered on 9/11, Panel Finds
By Dan Eggen and William Branigin
Washington Post
6-17-4

The chief of U.S. air defenses testified today that if his command had been notified immediately of the Sept. 11, 2001, hijackings and ordered to intervene, U.S. fighter jets would have been able to shoot down all four of the airliners.

Air Force Gen. Ralph E. Eberhart, commander of the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD), told the commission investigating the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks that had the Federal Aviation Administration conveyed word of the hijackings as soon it knew of them, "yes, we could shoot down the airplanes."

[In fact, the FAA did not have to wait to confirm and relay word of "hijackings. Regulations followed routinely at least once a week at the time saw FAA controllers calling for fighters on ready alert, or already aloft in the vicinity, to escort commercial planes that had lost radio or transponder contact. At least one Boston Center FAA controller says word of lost communications with FL 11was passed to the military immediately. WT]

The chairman and vice chairman of the commission later expressed surprise about Eberhart's claim.The commission staff concluded that NORAD had received notice of the hijacking nine minutes before Flight 77 hit the North Tower.

"The nine minutes notice was the most the military would receive that morning of any of the four hijackings," the report says.

[If that is the case, they could not have been watching there own radar screens. And they must have been the only Americans that morning not watching network news or answering calls from worried spouses.

As for official channels, the commission heard that a pair of F-15s were "wheels up out of Massachusetts as Tower 1 was struck more than 150 miles away. Air National Guard head, Maj. Gen. Paul Weaver later confirmed an official NORAD news release, stating, "The F-15 pilots flew ''like a scalded ape, topping 500 mph but were unable to catch up to the airliner. (St. Augustine Times Sept16/01; NORAD news release Sept18/01)

Airliners fly at 500 mph. An F-15 can fly almost four-times faster. Utilizing only 27% of available thrust, both F-15,s were eight minutes/71 miles away when FL 175 struck the South Tower (Christian Science Monitor Mar8/02)

Launched per regulations as soon as radio and transponder contact was lost with Flight 11, with both sets of throttles hammered to the stops the fastest fighters on Earth would have intercepted Flight 11 over the Hudson River at least six minutes from Manhattan. (Boston Globe Sept15/01)

Even launching as late as they did - on the FAA,s first officially acknowledged phone call to NORAD at 8:40 - the Mach 2.5 fighters could have reached FL 175 before it reached the World Trade Center.

One minute after the Otis-based F-15s were airborne, at 9:24, NORAD was informed by the FAA of a possible hijacking onboard FL 77. NORAD ordered Langley, VA F-16s to scramble. The "Fighting Falcon has a top speed of 1500 mph. But NORAD confirms the jets did not go to full power using afterburners. At 9:40, FL 77 flew into the Pentagon. It took the 1,500 mph-capable Langley fighters 12 minutes to cover the 130 miles. They could have made it in seven. The commission never asked who ordered the interceptors to fly so slowly. WT]

NORAD played 'let's not tell," but that is not the same as "we didn't know or act."

Even the 911 Commission admitted they were lied to and evidence given them was part of an effort, actually, part of a conspiracy, to deceive the world about 911 events.

Originally posted by SphinxMontreal

Oh, so let's see, the most advanced military in the world is only trained to deal with predictable acts of terrorism which go by a certain script? It is not trained to deal with unconventional surprise attacks

Er, no.

because by definition they're a surprise. Do you see?

reply to post by TrickoftheShade


BS!!!!! You are full of it!!! Oh, gee!!! What happened to NORAD's war games over NYC on 911????? Amazing how many OSers pushed that lie for so long. You can believe that those airliners slipped right by NORAD and all of our military if it makes you feel better, but, we know the truth and you're not fooling anyone anymore.

Your information seems to be as wrong as your homeys'. You OS beweevers spend entirely too much time on those damned fool official 911 story websites.

"Er, no.

because by definition they're a surprise. Do you see?"

So let me get this straight. Just because the authorities were allegedly "surprised" by the attacks on 9/11, they sat back and did absolutely nothing for 90 minutes, correct? It is your position that these surprise attacks mysteriously handcuffed officials for 90 minutes and prevented them from properly responding (like they are trained to do), correct?

Thanks for clearing that up for me - now it all makes sense.

Originally posted by Alfie1
reply to post by remymartin

 

I don't have a problem with explosions in the lobby of the Towers. People being burned by jet fuel coming down the elevator shafts is well documented.

But this video looks entirely phoney to me. This couple are supposed to have just escaped from one of the Towers and are in the process of washing the dust from their faces. But look at the surroundings; they are just on the edge of a park with people casually strolling about and playing in the background. They are the only ones caked in dust. Where are the dust clouds ? the panic ? the sirens ?

Alfie, I saw your post earlier today and every time I've come back to ATS I've found myself staring at it in disbelief. Finally, I had to log in and write a reply. Now that I'm finally doing that, I can't seem to find the words...

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt; you must not have watched the entire video with your full attention. That's it...right?

Originally posted by SphinxMontreal
"Er, no.

because by definition they're a surprise. Do you see?"

So let me get this straight. Just because the authorities were allegedly "surprised" by the attacks on 9/11, they sat back and did absolutely nothing for 90 minutes, correct? It is your position that these surprise attacks mysteriously handcuffed officials for 90 minutes and prevented them from properly responding (like they are trained to do), correct?

Thanks for clearing that up for me - now it all makes sense.

I'm just pointing out that it's pretty stupid to assume that people can prepare for a surprise attack. Because by definition...

Oh, never mind.

reply to post by truthcounts


Your military wasn't prepared. even Sphinxmontreal dimly perceives this because he uses the term "surprise". They didn't know what was going on or what to do.

Also, the US military just isn't that good. That's why it's unable to defeat a bunch of AK-47-wielding shepherds.

Originally posted by nick112

Originally posted by Alfie1
reply to post by remymartin

 

I don't have a problem with explosions in the lobby of the Towers. People being burned by jet fuel coming down the elevator shafts is well documented.

But this video looks entirely phoney to me. This couple are supposed to have just escaped from one of the Towers and are in the process of washing the dust from their faces. But look at the surroundings; they are just on the edge of a park with people casually strolling about and playing in the background. They are the only ones caked in dust. Where are the dust clouds ? the panic ? the sirens ?

Alfie, I saw your post earlier today and every time I've come back to ATS I've found myself staring at it in disbelief. Finally, I had to log in and write a reply. Now that I'm finally doing that, I can't seem to find the words...

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt; you must not have watched the entire video with your full attention. That's it...right?

You know, I find it a bit rich when truthers , who routinely allege in relation to 9/11 that planes, phone calls, body parts, plane wreckage, crash sites etc etc have been faked, get an attack of the vapours when anyone else questions a video.

I am supposed to be a sheeple aren't I ? Someone who just laps everything I see and read ?

Well, in this instance, I have concerns. I am not saying 100% it is a fake but I have doubts.

If true, these people must have been in the North Tower because they could not have survived on the 82nd floor in the South Tower. They are covered with dust so the inference is that they got out of the North Tower after the South Tower collapsed but were likely caught in the dust from the North Tower collapse which they described as dark.

They make a run for it but they don't seem just to go far enough for safety. They get so far that they are on the edge of a tranquil dust-free park, where people are calmly walking about in shirtsleeves, before sluicing their faces with water. It also happens that on the edge of this peaceful oasis there is a tv interviewer ready to pounce, and on them alone because there is no sign of any other refugees.

The interviewer launches off by saying " can you tell me what happened ? ". No, how are you ?, are you ok ? The man, in his response refers to " pyroclastic " flow . This is a description I have only seen truthers use and is of course usually applied to volcanoes. During the interview the man spits in what I would describe as a theatrical way.

The final shot is of the woman sprawled and being attended to by a woman with long blond hair. Weren't there any medics around on 9/11 ?

Now, if someone could tell me they know that park and where it is or they know that interviewer that would help to dispel my suspicions; but it hasn't happened yet.

No shot of the towers
Weather looks wrong
No other "victims"
No dust apart from on the people
Interviewer unconvincing - "Look at this! Look at this!"
Crash zoom to cut something out - probably somebody looking into the camera
Passersby look unconcerned
Odd use of "pyroclastic"
Woman victim very mannered

I'm not certain it's fake, but it wouldn't surprise me at all.

reply to post by Alfie1


You may want to read a few of the earlier posts as there is the answer you seek about the park.Let me help you out it was Battery Park just south of where the WTC stood. You can find that even just east of the WTC site is another park named Robert F Wagner Jr. park. Here please watch it again and this time open your eyes, because you can plainly see that there is dust all around them on the ground and on the wall and railings. Just watch this again and pay attention.

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
No shot of the towers
Weather looks wrong
No other "victims"
No dust apart from on the people
Interviewer unconvincing - "Look at this! Look at this!"
Crash zoom to cut something out - probably somebody looking into the camera
Passersby look unconcerned
Odd use of "pyroclastic"
Woman victim very mannered

I'm not certain it's fake, but it wouldn't surprise me at all.

Lets start at no shot of the towers. The camera was not trying to look at the towers he was filming his news reporter which is his job.
Now the weather. The dust did not cover the whole city and you can see that in many of the videos of 9/11.
No other victims. How can you make that statement when the reporter has only went to these people for the interview. Others could be walking behind the news people.
No other dust except on those people. Again Wrong answer. You need to watch the video again and this time open your eyes, because you can plainly see there is dust on the ground and the wall and railings around them not to mention the firemen that are there.
Crash Zoom: the cameraman had stopped taping so he can get into position for his reporter. No need to show the ground and waste film when he is moving positions.
Again there are only a few passerbys which are a man and woman that are running behind the people. Also people at that time were confused as to what was happening and were to go.You can see people just walking around near the WTC just before it had collapsed so your point is invalid.
If this lady is mannered then Osama Bin Laden is my neighbor. did you watch the video all the way thru because you can see how upset she is and I would guess in shock about what happened.

Anything else you need help with please feel free to ask someone will help i promise.