Did Jesjuah stage his own death in order to escape from it all?

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic


Sorry, but Christ argued from scripture, and you have yet to cite any that supports your claims. The four Gospels all say that Christ died -- you don't like it because it doesn't say "Christ died", they use a euphemism. I cited the passage in John -- you simply say that it is a lie. Matthew and Mark both have a Centurion say "Surely this man WAS the Son of God", but I'm sure you won't like that either. Nor will you like Luke 15:44, which says that Pilate was surprised to hear that Jesus was already dead.

There is nothing in scripture to support you, plenty to refute you, so why do you labour on?

Cite scripture that says that Jesus shaved his beard and pretended to be a gardener. If you decline to do so, the discussion is over, as you will have lost all credibility, though you had very little to begin with.

Originally posted by Soldier of God
reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic

 

The Jewish rulers wanted to be quite sure Jesus was dead. They were present to witness the event (

Mt 27:41

This is the passage you use to support your claims:
Matthew 27:39 Those who passed by hurled insults at him, shaking their heads 40 and saying, "You who are going to destroy the temple and build it in three days, save yourself ! Come down from the cross, if you are the Son of God!" 41 In the same way the chief priests, the teachers of the law and the elders mocked him. 42 "He saved others," they said, "but he can't save himself ! He's the King of Israel! Let him come down now from the cross, and we will believe in him. 43 He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, for he said, 'I am the Son of God.' " 44 In the same way the robbers who were crucified with him also heaped insults on him.

Besides, John clearly states that the mob (including the priests and the scribes etc. were watching from a distance and was not allowed up to where the Marys and the other women were staying.

Mk 15:31

This is the scripture you are basing your assumptions upon:
Mark 15:29 Those who passed by hurled insults at him, shaking their heads and saying, "So! You who are going to destroy the temple and build it in three days, 30 come down from the cross and save yourself !" 31 In the same way the chief priests and the teachers of the law mocked him among themselves. "He saved others," they said, "but he can't save himself ! 32 Let this Christ, this King of Israel, come down now from the cross, that we may see and believe." Those crucified with him also heaped insults on him.

Not the typical attitude you would expect from someone who pronounces someone dead, is it?

Lk 23:35

The text you are using to support that Jesjuah died on the cross from Luke follows:
Luke 23:34 Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." And they divided up his clothes by casting lots. 35 The people stood watching, and the rulers even sneered at him. They said, "He saved others; let him save himself if he is the Christ of God, the Chosen One." 36 The soldiers also came up and mocked him. They offered him wine vinegar 37 and said, "If you are the king of the Jews, save yourself."

and even objected to the wording of Pilate's superscription on the cross (Jn 19:21).

Which further substanciate how Pilate after having said out the conviction, washed his hands. Now why did Pilate wash his hands? That should be easy for you. Hint: Look to Talmud.....

The Roman soldiers wanted to be quite sure Jesus was dead.

OK? That's your personally biased opinion. The text says nothing of the sort. The Centurion even declared that killing Jesjuah would be murder of justice, since he was just and "a son of God/the gods". But I'll read on....

This was to be a quick execution, since Jewish customs did not allow the bodies to be left hanging on a holy day. However, as noted above, they couldn't afford to bungle the operation. They broke the legs of the two thieves, a standard method of accelerating death. Jesus, who we must remember had been flogged prior to his crucifixion, appeared to be dead already: but that wasn't good enough for them: so one of the soldiers stabbed him in the side with his spear, just to make quite sure. This incident is mentioned only in John's gospel, where it is strongly emphasised that this is not hearsay but an eye-witness report (Jn 19:31-5)

I don't want to rehash this, if you know me, and I know you do, you have read my countless explanations for this earlier. These guys weren't in oposition to Jesjuah, they had infact declared that Jesjuah was a righteous man thus indicating that if he died his blood would be on their hands, and they turned, "saw" that he was dead, and instead of breaking his bones, they did something that to any surgeon or field medic would indicate the start of a healing process, through piercing his thorax.

Following Jesus' death, the bodies were not immediately removed from the cross, but were left hanging. Jesus died at about 3pm (Mt 27:45-50, Mk 15:34-7, Lk 23:44-6) yet the bodies were not removed until the evening (Mt 28:57-8, Mk 15:42-6, Lk 23:50-3, Jn 38-42

The time Jesjuah is supposed to have been hanging on the cross varies with all four gospels, from a mere three hours, to an impossible nine hours, not to mention all the earthquakes and solar eclipses that never happened or could happen. AND, you just said the bodies had to be removed before sunset, which shows us that they were all down and "killed" at about six o'clock in the afternoon. According to tradition Jesjuah was pierced by the lance while still at the cross, showing he could already have started taking new breaths while still at the cross. With a little logistics and planning Jesjuah could have been removed from the cross within minutes from him being pierced and "pronounced dead".

Pilate also wanted to be quite sure Jesus was dead. Mark records that he would not agree to the removal of the body, until after he had summoned the centurion and obtained confirmation that Jesus had been dead for quite some time (Mk 15:42-6).

That is no doubt why both Jewish and Roman authorities are absolutely adamant on this: Jesus Christ was crucified - Finis! Given the facts, there was no way they could possibly deny it.

Again, let me remind you that the Roman centurion in question had just prior to this declared not only that Jesus was dead, but also that Jesus was the Son of God and a Righteous man who was falsely committed to death by his own hands. The guy had nothing to lose, and knowing how Pilate initially disagreed to the killing of Jesjuah, for all I know, Pilate was in on it too. Golgatha or Calvary is situated about five minutes walk from Pilate's palace. And perhaps three minutes running distance. Or said in another way, a stone throw, and Pilate could probably have witnessed the whole scenario from his own bedroom window. So much for the "long time argument". Like you said yourself: UTTER FAIL!!!

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic


Kudos to you for having the fortitude to offer up what you did in the face of knowing many will vehemently oppose the offering, as it always is with the Indoctrinated not being able to see past their Book/Faith.

I once read a theory offered on the use of herbs to fake death, something that was well known in those times and to me it seemed to fit well with the remnants supplied to us all those years after the alleged facts.

If this man had died physically there would be no records in other cultures of his travels after his alleged death.

Thank you and good days to you.

reply to post by adjensen


OK. No scriptual proof? How about this:

Isaijah 53:4 Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted. 5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed.

Now how can we be saved by what happened to Jesjuah, how can we receive knowledge of healing from a wound? Some of us when we read that passage where Jesjuah is crucified, thought, hey, why are these soldiers healing him with piercing his side when they were ordered to kill him? Why did they teach us methods of healing by the cross instead of just breaking his bones?

Originally posted by facelift
reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic

 

Is it plausible to think that he staged or rather faked his own death – a conspiracy

Well, considering his birth, life, death, resurrection, ect., have all been faked (forged is a better word IMO), I'd say it's safe to say it was not plausible...

And I suppose you DON'T believe in any of this regardless? Meaning in effect that what you say is wordplay and simply childish Madhatter's notnotnot yeees?

Anyways, eight pages straight is getting at me, and I need sleep. See you all tomorrow. And please guys, give me some challenge for a change, and not just theological mumbojumbo and makebelieve around the "mystical" or "esotheric" value of Jesjuah being killed for your own and the Father God's "pleasure". It's a dead old shame, that is what it is.

Hello my friend,

My conspiracy theory of the Bible is a bit different than yours. I have been following the thread and know we see things a bit differently. This is perfectly fine by me. However, I do wonder, what is your end game?

Supposing all you say is accurate, what is your final point? Are you suggesting that Jes.. who ever, is still alive or perhaps that he survived and had off spring?

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic


You see, in matters of spirituality, faith is the igniter, you either choose to believe or not. Believing makes the unthinkable and unexplainable happen. It just goes against logic, it defeats it, transcends it. Words can not explain the mystery of God. I choose to believe in Jesus the Lord, you have the choice too, he extends His hand, you either take it or refuse it, cheers

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
reply to post by adjensen

 

OK. No scriptual proof? How about this:

Isaijah 53:4 Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted. 5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed.

Now how can we be saved by what happened to Jesjuah, how can we receive knowledge of healing from a wound? Some of us when we read that passage where Jesjuah is crucified, thought, hey, why are these soldiers healing him with piercing his side when they were ordered to kill him? Why did they teach us methods of healing by the cross instead of just breaking his bones?

Which claim of yours is this supposed to be proof of? "Knowledge of healing"? What makes you think this quote from Isaiah has anything to do with that?

This is a prophecy concerning Christ, and that his sacrifice would be the salvation of the world. By Christ's atonement, we are spiritually healed. You thoughtfully skip the bit in IS 53:7 "He was led like a lamb to the slaughter" which further presages this. In actuality, much of Isaiah supports what would later happen to Christ, the Christ of the New Testament, rather than the distorted "worldly" view of Christ that you hold.

I asked you specifically to support, with scripture, your statement that Jesus shaved his beard and pretended to be a gardener. If you are not going to do so, you may remove point #1 from your list. Would you like to continue with point #2 now?

Originally posted by kensho
You see, in matters of spirituality, faith is the igniter, you either choose to believe or not. Believing makes the unthinkable and unexplainable happen. It just goes against logic, it defeats it, transcends it. Words can not explain the mystery of God. I choose to believe in Jesus the Lord, you have the choice too, he extends His hand, you either take it or refuse it, cheers

We think it can only be this way because since we were born we have been told it is only this way. .. we have been Molded to Believe instead of Discovering for ourselves what is. In this respect we have been made to be Slaves to a Belief.

This Indoctrination Process has been the tool in favour now for millenia, and not only about Jesus/Jeshua, but also about the Genesis of human-kind and those who manufactured this physical form.

But, there are other ways to Know for sure. Faith is not needed when you explore the larger picture reality, when you travel outside the comfort zones of our western Indoctrinations. Doing so requires holding to No Beliefs, No Images, No Concepts of what must be.. otherwise it is we who are putting Limitations on "God". It is then we who Limit ourselves and what we can experience of this wonderful Universe.

Have no Beliefs and you will travel far into the bigger picture reality than you can possibly imagine for yourself now.

It is one thing to argue based on scriptures written many years after the alleged facts, and in doing so accepting the alterations created by Paul after he wrested control of the fledgling movement from James.. the elder brother of Jesus/Jeshua.

It is an entirely different thing to find out for yourself by direct action, because you then discover the control-mechanisms that have been employed for more than 2,000 years that has easily manipulated the masses into a Belief-System that Denies it's Own Ancient Historical Roots.

No insult has been intended with this response.

reply to post by Tayesin


God's superintendence of the human authors so that, using their own individual personalities, they composed and recorded without error His revelation to man in the words of the original autographs [Charles Ryrie, A Survey of Bible Doctrine (Chicago: Moody Press, 1972), p. 38].


2 Peter 1:21 gives some insight:
No prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

reply to post by Tayesin


No offence taken my friend. I have been down the gnostic road, and there is a point that knowledge can not explain the unexplainable. Thats were I just tried to just believe and let go and the unmanifested became manifested. I feel that knowledge is somehow bound by words and we know that words are pale representations of what is real, much like the mirage that we perceive. In this world, the rules of spirituality is belief. There is a lot of stuff out there. Maybe the indoctrination is wrong maybe is right, that's the choice given to us. It is more likely after we overcome the world we can gain knowledge to keep going ahead. But this world my friend is very limited for those with little faith. You say the words with faith and it is done, isn't that heavenly? Anything is possible, thanks for your input, cheers

Please Read the books "Jesus and the Essenes " it goes along with the point that the OP is making .For the book follow the link :

books.google.com.jm... uQG_K9UOHkC&printsec=frontcover&dq=jesus+and+the+essenes&source=bl&ots=EhOLdSjEpp&sig=BSRVEdFQYS9BqSmznOgyj0TxAPk&hl=en&ei=XgO9TJWtI4KC8gbJ49DGDQ&sa=X &oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false

Great Post I think this is not far from the truth as I always believed that there was more to the Jesus character than someone who will be crucified only to prove something to humanity ...

S&F

Originally posted by Tayesin
It is one thing to argue based on scriptures written many years after the alleged facts, and in doing so accepting the alterations created by Paul after he wrested control of the fledgling movement from James.. the elder brother of Jesus/Jeshua.

The differences between James and Paul are not anywhere nearly as pronounced as many try to make them seem, and they largely come down to two things:

1) James is one of the most "Jewish" of the New Testament authors, and his epistle rather reflects that. A late comer (as was Paul) to the foundation of Christianity, James retains a deep connection to the Law, and although he accepts that Christ has changed the game, the roots of a lifetime dedicated to the Law die hard. On the other hand, Paul is deeply entrenched in the Gentile perspective, and there is a basic (though not insurmountable, as was shown) gulf between the Jews and Gentiles.

2) The writings of Paul focus on faith, rather than works (though never once denying that one's behaviour an absolute factor) while James focuses on the importance of works, but still recognizing that faith is an integral component.

Traditionally, James is viewed as more of a Catholic Christian, Paul more of a Protestant one. As I said earlier, had Paul not had the role that he did, it is quite likely that the Christian church would never have been as open to the conversion of Gentiles, and it's not inconceivable that the church would have died on the vine, becoming nothing more than an obscure sect of ancient Judaism, as we now view the Sadducees or Essenes.

I wanted to post a different book "The Christ of India "

Available for download here :

www.4shared.com...

For those who do not want to read the book please read this short review :

www.atmajyoti.org...

The general Idea is :

Return to India-not ascension It is generally supposed that at the end of His ministry in Israel Jesus ascended into heaven. But Saint Matthew and Saint John, the two Evangelists that were eye-witnesses of His departure, do not even mention such a thing, for they knew that He went to India after departing from them. Saint Mark and Saint Luke, who were not there, simply speak of Jesus being taken up into the heavens. The truth is that He departed into India, though it is not unlikely that He did rise up and "fly" there. This form of travel is not unknown to the Indian yogis. That Jesus did not leave the world at the age of thirty-three was written about by Saint Irenaeus of Lyon in the second century. He claimed that Jesus lived to be fifty or more years old before leaving the earth, though he also said that Jesus was crucified at the age of thirty-three. This would mean that Jesus lived twenty years after the crucifixion. This assertion of Saint Irenaeus has puzzled Christian scholars for centuries, but if we put it together with other traditions it becomes comprehensible. Basilides of Alexandria, Mani of Persia, and Julian the Emperor said that Jesus had gone to India after His crucifixion.

also ....

In 1921 the Himis monastery was visited by Henrietta Merrick who, in her book In the World's Attic tells of learning about the records of Jesus' life that were kept there. She wrote: "In Leh is the legend of Jesus who is called Issa, and the Monastery at Himis holds precious documents fifteen hundred years old which tell of the days that he passed in Leh where he was joyously received and where he preached." In 1939 Elizabeth Caspari visited the Himis monastery. The Abbot showed her some scrolls, which he allowed her to examine, saying: "These books say your Jesus was here." Robert Ravicz, a former professor of anthropology at California State University at Northridge, visited Himis in 1975. A Ladakh physician he met there spoke of Jesus' having been there during His "lost years." In the late 1970s Edward Noack, author of Amidst Ice and Nomads in High Asia, and his wife visited the Himis monastery. A monk there told him: "There are manuscripts in our library that describe the journey of Jesus to the East." Toward the end of this century the diaries of a Moravian Missionary, Karl Marx, were discovered in which he writes of Notovitch and his finding of scrolls about "Saint Issa." (Marx's diaries are kept in the Moravian Mission museum. The pages about Notovitch and the scrolls have "disappeared" and their existence is now denied in an attempt to discredit Notovitch, but before their disappearance they were photographed by a European researcher and have been made public.) From all this testimony we see that Jesus studied the Buddhist Dharma as well as the Hindu Dharma during His life in India. Notovitch also claimed that the Vatican Library had sixty-three manuscripts from India, China, Egypt, and Arabia-all giving information about Jesus' life. In 1812, Meer Izzut-oolah, a Persian, was sent to Ladakh and central Asia by the East India Company. Though religion was not his mission, he observed much and subsequently wrote in his book Travels in Central Asia: "They keep sculptured representations of departed saints, prophets and lamas in their temples for contemplation. Some of these figures are said to represent a certain prophet who is living in the heavens, which would appear to point to Jesus Christ." When Swami Abhedananda was in the Himis monastery doing his research on the records of Jesus life in India he was told by the abbot that Jesus had not departed from the earth at the time His Apostles saw Him ascend, but that He had returned to India where he lived with the Himalayan yogis for many years.

Hi Folks, thank you for your responses so far.....

Originally posted by Soldier of God
God's superintendence of the human authors so that, using their own individual personalities, they composed and recorded without error His revelation to man in the words of the original autographs [Charles Ryrie, A Survey of Bible Doctrine (Chicago: Moody Press, 1972), p. 38].

I do understand the self-supporting nature of offering research or quotes by others who are entrenched in the Belief-System itself. Of more importance would be those on the outside looking in with fresh eyes instead of those looking with mind's closed to other possibilities.

i'm going to go a little off topic to illustrate a point...

The origins of Genesis are found in the massive Sumerian Texts, and support the knowing that the Hebrew left Sumer with the first books of the Torah, which became Genesis in our Bible over millenia. Hence what we read in Genesis is a very heavily edited/shortened version of the massively detailed and brilliant original.

Biblical Researchers will not accept the Recorded History from Sumeria as the real and factual basis for their Religion.. neither Hebrew Faith or Christian Faith will admit it. And yet it is there in a fully detailed History while only a bare skeleton survives in our Bibles. The Nag Hammadi library, in the Apocrypha of John (if memory serves me) states that our manufacturers were Lesser Gods and yet the Bible states it was a Supreme God who created us. The Sumerian history tells us it was Alien Visitors.. which are perceived as Lesser Gods. None of that fits with our modern.. or even 2,000 year old perception. So somewhere along the line MAN changed some things in it to fit the newer paradigms in play during their lifetimes.

We also forget that Man has Free Will.. and we absolutely refuse to see that Man freely used it for his own Benefit. If God was overseeing the writings that made it into the Bible.. even without Constantine's interferences.. then why would he allow so many Discrepancies? Why so many mistranslations? Some researchers are well aware of over 4,000 direct mistranslations that changed important meanings... if a Supreme Being did oversee it all then it would be Perfect, Fully Detailed, in every way would it not?

Originally posted by Soldier of God
2 Peter 1:21 gives some insight:
No prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

I disagree based solely on my own life's experience. I have been having visions of things to come since I was a kid.. and although many fakers make this claim.. never has it been wrong. I can trust it with my life, and have learned to since I was a teenage motorcyclist refusing to listen to the Voice telling me about imminent danger ahead.

Since becoming an adult the visions have shifted more to upcoming worldy events and longer term future possibilities and probabilities. But even then, so far they have always come about in the world.

How it works for me is this.. at first I get a tugging sensation on my forehead. I then have the choice to "open up" to See or not. The strength of the feeling on my forehead tells me the importance of what is about to be shown to me.

So far this fits with your quote.. maybe. But, I am also able to surpass the need for external application of Visionary Sight and search out information I choose at the time. Over all these years I found there is no Limitations to what I can experience or know via having direct experience of everything outside our tiny, Indoctrinated Box of Beliefs.

And so it would seem that my experiences in this life disprove the information quoted from Belief-Systems.

Again, no offence meant by my words here.

Originally posted by kensho
reply to post by Tayesin

 

No offence taken my friend. I have been down the gnostic road, and there is a point that knowledge can not explain the unexplainable. Thats were I just tried to just believe and let go and the unmanifested became manifested. I feel that knowledge is somehow bound by words and we know that words are pale representations of what is real, much like the mirage that we perceive. In this world, the rules of spirituality is belief. There is a lot of stuff out there. Maybe the indoctrination is wrong maybe is right, that's the choice given to us. It is more likely after we overcome the world we can gain knowledge to keep going ahead. But this world my friend is very limited for those with little faith. You say the words with faith and it is done, isn't that heavenly? Anything is possible, thanks for your input, cheers

There is a point "that knowledge can not explain the unexplainable".. that point is the Boundary of Beliefs.. the Box we are in at the time. Direct Experience outside of those Boxes does provide perfect explanations for what we limited-perception human beings consider in our mindlessness to be possible.

I'm not saying this type of Knowledge comes from wider research or study in any normal manner. I am saying that by dropping the bonds of the flesh we can easily extend ourselves far outside what is considered and fully Believed to be the Limitations emplaced on Humans by God.

In essence, we think too small and so cannot experience the Bigger Picture Reality that lay all around us in each and every moment. We attempt at every turn to apply human-like behaviours onto our concept of a Supreme Male Being we want to call God... yet very few ever do get outside of that highly limited perception to explore the wider reality... and truly come to know themselves.

"When you come to know yourself, you will become known. And you will know that it is You who are the sons of the Living Father.".. recorded by Thomas in the Nag Hammadi Library as well as in the Bible. Jesus/Jeshua was trying to get people to understand something extremely important.. we are the ones with all the power, we are "divinely" empowered ans so can do as he is reported to have done.. which he also told us directly but which we ignore for fear of being a sinner and sent to Hell.

You stated.. "the rules of spirituality is belief". I have to disagree.

Belief is what Limits us. There is no substitute for having the direct experience outside of Belief.

My very first teacher said to me, "Come to practice as if naked." That means to not have ANY pre-conceived notions, hold No Beliefs about anything because they will Limit what you can experience of the Big Reality. Over the 35+ years that followed I came to understand that she was perfectly correct..as were the Druid when saying, "The Truth Against The World" .. which in itself says just about everything we need to know and yet hardly anyone ever understands such a simple thing as this... because almost everyone compares new information based on their Attachments to their chosen Belief-System, and thus refuse with all their might to even so much as consider it possible.

What this serves to do is prevent the vast majority from waking up to the Dream of Life while they are still alive in the world. This is saddening to me.. as I only get to see a small handful of people who really do Get It. The rest I have to wait until they drop the body for good and require assistance into the Light where I get to watch them Wake Up from that same dream in order to Remember what they are and why they were really here in the flesh.

Sorry again for rambling on.. there is so much to share. And I also apologise for how poorly this may have been worded.. I'm very mentally tired today.

The bible is a comic book to control the masses...

I have not caught up on this thread since earlier today but when I left the OP kept saying that the point to the OP was that scripture backs the claims the OP made and was wanting someone to try to say otherwise if they could.

OP....you know in scripture it goes on to talk of Jesus being placed in the tomb...that those who knew him best were with him. It goes on to talk of the scares they saw on his body when they later seen him after the tomb was empty.

So are you saying that one little part of scripture hides information but all the other information is a lie....

Did the ones that knew him know it was someone else on the cross? Is this your suggestion? Or that they knew it was not him and the authors only made things up to make it seem so?

Either way....there is a lie in the scriptures then...by what you are suggesting..and then you want scriptures to prove your wrong?

I dont get it, really.

So what about the ones that saw him, and saw his scares....was this Jesus or not? Is this made up or not? So do the scriptures hold truth or not>?

Do you not see something a miss with using scriptures to back up if your wrong or right? For the scriptures do suggests that those that loved him witnessed his death on the cross...knew of his tomb and visited it....saw him 'anew' with scares from the crucifixion.

I guess the reason I did not try to 'prove you wrong' like you were wanting others to try to do...because I see no point in taking any book of history as 100% proof of anything. Even if we do, like you are wanting....then one can say also, there is indeed proof in the scriptures that he did die and he was placed in a tomb and that people saw him with the scares.

Now...besides that...the place that is in the scriptures that always gave me a funny feeling was when he had trouble carrying the cross and another carried it for him. Again...I dont take scriptures as proof...but this part always seemed like it was missing something to it.

Ive read the idea in the gnostic gospel about it not being Jesus on the cross. It did not feel right and goes against Jesus's honest nature to deceive people and I dont think that all of those that loved him would of let such a thing go unnoticed nor do I think they all would of backed such a deception when he taught them honesty and humbleness.

Jesus did not have to die....but he knew, fighting for his life was against everything he taught. He walked the walked...call it what you will.

Edit to add...if I misunderstood what your points were, my apologies, Im re reading it all with a fresh mind.

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic


The shame is we all cant converse in the same admittance that none of us have literal proof for any of this...and admit to that we either fall upon faith, experiences, or our own understanding and interpretation.

We should not call others understandings a shame...no matter how much we see differently. Just the repetitive use of words like 'mumbo jumbo' shows you have little respect for another path or understandings.

Actually...after reading more of your responses to valid points others brought up (just as much 'proof' from scriptures to back their claims as your own scriptures for your claims) I have to wonder about your intent for the thread.

Mabye another thread..another time...hanging my hat on this one.

LV

I this is an intriguing thread. . .I don't think it should make anyone angry, as we're all members of a site that promoted individuality and free thought. S&F OP, while I am refraining from posting my opinion, I will say that threads the promote thought and inspire others to deeper levels of thought. Very well presented! I know I will return to this thread later to read more.

great thread, gave me allot to chew over! Not sure I agree with everything you said but interesting