John Titor: Hoax

Yes, and it was going to be the biggest thing in the world for the next 4 years after he visited. Yet he didn't mention it at all. Instead mentioning 2 things that were already happening when he posted. Mad Cow and the Intifada. Neither of which has even come close to the size or scope of the War on Terror. Why would he mention those things in relation to our near future yet not the War on Terror?

As i said before the whole thing leaves my hands tied in regards to belief, but as far as why could he comment on things that were happening, that's because they already happened and his comments wouldnt change their outcome. The more he changes this time line the further he will return from his initial timeline. Simply put if he commented on the WTC or the WoT when he tried to return home he would find himself far from his original worldline. ALSO in his posts he claimed that he was born in 1996? if i remember right... Ill take that as his actual dob so around the time of 9-11 and when the WoT started he was only 5. The "civil war" would have started in small stages when he was 10... helping him to further remember it. Its like he said... not many people remember who won the superbowl 2 years ago, no less who won 30 years ago. Naturally he would have learned about it in history books similary to how people my age learned about Pearl Harbor, but if i went back to december 7, 1939 i dont know that i would be thinking about pearl harbor. People are inherently selfish, so perhaps he was more interested in learning then teaching.

As you can tell my posts ;ean more towards attempting to prove JT. This is for no other reason than my desire for time travel to be possible. I am quite open to scientific suggestions such as the problem with the laser beam, but as far as his communications, they seem genuine. We shall see.

If the car JT was supposedly creating an enormous magnetic field around, enough to bend light, had regular glass windows, which were down at the time of operation, would this not have some ill effects on the occupants of the vehicle? Just seems a little odd.

Vir Fidelis

[edit on 26-6-2004 by Aero]

[edit on 26-6-2004 by Aero]

first ausie bloke and now john titor. you could not make this up oops. guess what, someone just has.

You know, I can't help but think that John Titor borrowed a lot from 12 monkeys and Back to the Future, but skewed his story enough to make it quite unrecognizable.

Check out 12 Monkey's plotline:

An unknown and lethal virus has wiped out five billion people in 1996. Only 1% of the population has survived by the year 2035, and is forced to live underground. A convict (James Cole) reluctantly volunteers to be sent back in time to 1996 to gather information about the origin of the epidemic (who he's told was spread by a mysterious "Army of the Twelve Monkeys") and locate the virus before it mutates so that scientists can study it. Unfortunately Cole is mistakenly sent to 1990, six years earlier than expected, and is arrested and locked up in a mental institution, where he meets Dr. Kathryn Railly, a psychiatrist, and Jeffrey Goines, the insane son of a famous scientist and virus expert.



When mental patient Cole is sent back in time to find information on a deadly virus that will destroy 5,000,000,000 members of the human race in 1996-1997, he mistakenly arrives in 1990. After explaining his plea to Dr. Kathryn Railly, he is placed in a mental institution. In 1996, he kidnaps Railly, using her to find the 12 Monkeys, a group of revolutionists that are planning to release the virus into select cities. But, he is wanted by the authorities for murder and kidnapping, plus he refuses to return to the future; he is in love with Railly.

www.imdb.com...



James Cole (Bruce Willis) travels back in time from the year 2035 (1 year off of John Titor's 2036).

James Cole accidently ends up in 1990. And then after a some plot developement, James Cole finally makes it to 1996.

John Titor was born in 1996 or 1998.

John Titor goes to the year 2000.

John Titor speaks of problems with Mad Cow Disease and it's variants.

James Cole's Earth has been ravaged by a virus that has killed 5,000,000,000 people.

John Titor travels through time in a time machine attached to common vehicles (just like Back to the Future, except the vehicle doesn't move).

I also see John Titor as a time travelling tourist. I can't think of any books or movies off hand that have time travelling tourist, but there are many.

I can't remember, didn't GM at one time own the Delorean brand of car (the Back to the Future car)? If so, John Titor said the first "time machine" was built by GE, and subsequent one's built by GM (and GE and GM are interchangeable for the most part).


So, I ask you this, do any of these correlations make sense? Can you find more?

Edit: There may be a few inaccuracies here. Hopefully one of you can make sense of what I'm saying and add on to it (he borrowed from a lot of movies, books, etc...). :-D



[edit on 6-27-2004 by EmbryonicEssence]

Originally posted by Aero
The more he changes this time line the further he will return from his initial timeline.

Didn't he use a long winded explanation (including point A, B, C and D to explain that that wasn't the case. He could always returnt to his correct worldline.

Plus, I wouldn't put the WTC more in the Pearl Harbour category than the Superbowl category. He was never shy in making all his claims about the future, Mad cow and Palestinian/Israeli, with zero mention of anything that has actually happened since he was here. No WoT, no SARS.

Plus yeah as far as his time machine there are a ton of problems with his claims of a powerful magnetic/gravitational field around the device. Even beyond the obviously fake laser pic. The problems with having a gratitational field (one powerful enough to bend light on that angle!) should be obvious.

EDIT: I believe he stated his date of birth as 1998 btw.

[edit on 27-6-2004 by Kano]

Question:

How many people here remembered Khobar towers until I brought it up?
Seems to have slipped your minds, no?

How many people can name all the major dates regarding the Vietnam war without having to resort to a book? When would you even define the 'start' of that war?

The point I've repeatedly made, and which still hasn't been countered, I believe, is that the 'historical' dismissal of JT that many people have done here is based on a fairly self-centered worldview -- one in which these debunkers assume that all events, across time, are seen the way they currently view them. For some reason, people refuse to even acknowledge that a society that just lost tens of millions due to nuclear war might just clump 9-11 in with the terrorist attacks that have come before and since. They also refuse to even consider the notion that the 'War on Terror' might be considered a part of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in the future. This is strange, because I'd expect more people on a conspiracy site to make such a connection. But... no... in 2036 everyone will use the exact same terms we do for historical events and see the timelines relating to those events the same way we do!!! No historians will uncover secret or missing documents between now and 2036 that might make us re-evaluate what is going on right now!!! No-- everything is happening just as the media is reporting it... and there will never be divergence in opinion regarding what is actually going on in our time!!!

Really-- I don't believe in JT (feel free to debunk him due to technical matters) -- but this psuedo-historical reason for debunking him is really weak. I suppose that everyone who fought at the Battle of Agincourt knew that they were serving in the 100 Years' War

Uh, would you mention World War II without mentioning Pearl Harbour.

9-11 is what brought it home to the US, its the catalyst in all the conflicts. Khobar towers was what? 2 dozen dead, in a foreign country. 9-11 was 2 thousand on home soil. This single event started the War on Terror, the dominating political factor over the last 3 years. The emphasis in the future might be on the Palestinian conflict, it might blow up in future years to be far greater than the war on terror. But, why would Titor mention the Palestinian/Israeli conflict, in tandem with Mad Cow Disease, as part of our immediate future. Yet fail to mention the War on Terror, or SARS.

Really, I concur (and have mentioned previously) that these omissions alone, while a strong case, are not enough to completely dismiss the hoax. But when you combine them with the lack of his predictions coming true. The case becomes very strong.

Then of course there is the faked laser-beam images, alone enough to prove Titor is lying. We combine the proof Titor is lying about his time machine. With the fact his predictions have been incorrect and he failed to predict massive world events. We end up at a point where noone should in their right mind choose to believe in this garbage hoax.

1. 9-11 is what we currently perceive to be the beginning of the war in terror. This is because we have been conditioned to think this way. A future generation might see the FIRST WTC attack as the actual beginning of a war that wasn't acknowledged for years.
2.Death tolls: Compared to earthquakes in Turkey and Iran that have occured in recent years, 9-11 isn't the biggest killer of our age.
3.Consider, for a moment, that Israel may have known about 9-11 and let it happen so as to put us on an aggressive footing in the mideast. If such information became public knowledge, future generations might consider 9-11 to be a part of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
4.From Titor's standpoint, government powers related to the Patriot act might be more threatening than the WoT or 9-11 itself. Keep in mind that the erosion of freedom for the sake of security was the main focus of his points... there are many instances where it sounds like he is talking about the Patriot act (and its uses in the wrong hands).
5.JT said that he felt his world was superior to ours. Perhaps he wanted america to go through a war that resulted in a new appreciation of freedom?

One thing I didnt seem to understand about his story was his choice of vehicle used for time travel a 60s corvette and then later a 4wd he claim he need a car or truck with a strong suspension he claimed the time machine weighed 500 lbs factor in his weight say 175lbs for the sake of arguement to too much wieght for a old vette but now your turning on a machine that increases the gravity of everthing around it. He stated where he was sitting he felt about 2 Gs so he would weigh 350lbs also every part of the car where he was weighed twice as much but the Gs got higher the farther out it got from the machine. Are we really supose to expect some old vette stood up to the extra weight it would have to endure during this time travel? The fact that a vette would even be used for this type of thing is bunk unless may be he wanted to pick up chicks in the past with a busted up vette

PS: I think it's implied, in Titor's comments, that there were terrorist events that were used by the government to gain power and avoid the Bill of rights. He mentioned that the former government thought Americans would want security over freedom and that "they were wrong."

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
One thing I didnt seem to understand about his story was his choice of vehicle used for time travel a 60s corvette and then later a 4wd he claim he need a car or truck with a strong suspension he claimed the time machine weighed 500 lbs factor in his weight say 175lbs for the sake of arguement to too much wieght for a old vette but now your turning on a machine that increases the gravity of everthing around it. He stated where he was sitting he felt about 2 Gs so he would weigh 350lbs also every part of the car where he was weighed twice as much but the Gs got higher the farther out it got from the machine. Are we really supose to expect some old vette stood up to the extra weight it would have to endure during this time travel? The fact that a vette would even be used for this type of thing is bunk unless may be he wanted to pick up chicks in the past with a busted up vette

What type of vehicles -- that would have existed in 1975 -- would have been available to him in a post-war 2036? Vettes would have been preserved (per unit) to a higher degree than rusted out pickup trucks. Also, are we sure that's a vette? I don't remember hearing him say that, though I think one poster mentioned that, if it was a vette, that its interior had been re-arranged (who would trash a classic corvette for the sake of a hoax?).

Originally posted by onlyinmydreams
I think it's implied, in Titor's comments

here are many instances where it sounds like he is talking about the Patriot act

We can't go changing and twisting his words to try and change what he 'implies' into whatever we want. I reiterate, he is not a prophet. Vague comments are as good as useless. He failed to give anything solid. Didn't mention the Space Shuttle's demise, didn't mention the discovery of water in Mars' past. Didn't mention SARS, didn't mention anything about the WoT. Doesn't mention any specifics about the political future of the US, uses weak excuses that he contradicts later by saying it doesn't matter what he does in this timeline, it wont affect his own.

About the erosion of civil liberties, he says that is after the civil conflicts have started.

When the civil “conflict” started and got worse, people generally decided to either stay in the cities and lose most of their civil rights under the guise of security or leave the cities for more isolated and rural areas. Our home was searched once and the neighbor across the street was arrested for some unknown reason. That convinced my father to leave the city.

02/12/01 23:51 (about the future) 375
((8. John says the civil war which starts in 2004 or 2005 (depending on the post) leads to the world war which starts in 2015. ( So we have a TEN YEAR civil war???))
It’s 2004. I apologize for a missed key (very observant – we all need good critics). Perhaps our definition of war is different. I would define it as a conflict where organized groups engage in maneuver and armed conflict.

Consider, for a moment, that Israel may have known about 9-11 and let it happen so as to put us on an aggressive footing in the mideast. If such information became public knowledge, future generations might consider 9-11 to be a part of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Even if that is all true, how could he be so ignorant as to not mention it at all? Even in the context of the Intifada. He never mentions anything about the US in conflict with the middle east in the near future. Or anything about an upsurge in Global Terrorism, nor does he mention previous terrorist attacks that you might want to believe he thinks is the start of the WoT.

He mentions none of this, because he does not know. He knows the Intifada is happening, he knows Mad Cow is happening, he points at them. Misses the dominating factor of world politics for the next 3 years. And gets his predictions about 2004 wrong.

Incidentally, on the subject of the Shuttle, he even makes a half-arsed attempt at predicting a problem with a mission in progress.

02/08/01 13:18 (past predictions) 310
The space shuttle mission may or may not have a problem connecting the new lab to the space station.

He is referring to this mission to attach the Lab Module Destiny to the ISS. A mission that went perfectly. Notice how cagey he gets when referring to events in the very near future.

For the last time, the term 'War on Terror' might not be in use in 2036... it might not even be thought of as a specific historical event. Like I've tried to say repeatedly, there are a multitude of reasons why it might be pooled into the 'Israeli-Palestinian' conflict by 2036 by historians with better information and more years to analyze the root causes of what we think of as the WoT.

Again, would someone fighting at the battle of Agincourt realize that he was fighting in the 100 Years' War... or do you think people in the past used OUR terms for everything?

It should be noted, though, that JT refers to the search for 'Weapons of Mass Destruction' and it being a possible ruse THREE YEARS before the second gulf war began.


As for the shuttle, could you please, without checking a book, give me the history of every jetliner accident from the 1960s? How about even space accidents (dates/missions/crew)? JT stated that there was NO active space program in 2036. Why would someone who grew up without space flight be aware of every space mission? Are you aware of every dirigible accident... or do you just have a vague notion of what happened with that area of aviation? JT sounds more like he doesn't know much about the shuttle than he does like a guy trying to say what WILL happen to the shuttle (BTW, the Columbia loss might be a footnote in 2036).

As for the civil war, the loss of freedom/random searches was the reason WHY the shotgun militias rose up. He said that often. Keep in mind all of his freedom v. security comments.

PS:When asked about a coming war in the mideast he said it would soon be a "no legger and a no armer." Again, his generation may look on that in the way we might look on the guerrilla wars that occured in the phillipines after the spanish american war (how many soldiers, today, have even heard of that... though it was a major issue in its day?)

Originally posted by JediMaster
Nope, but I get where your going.

But the war on terror is a major world wide known thing, something that will not be forgetten in under 30 years, maybe 300 but in 2035 this would be still known.

Does anybody know how WW2 started? How about the Koren War? Not just how the US got involved, but the events that came before. With the WTC, if that is not biggest thing to happen yet, maybe it is all together. I won't say that there are Waco type of media coverage, but as far as the events taking place? Yes there are, and more everyday.

12 November 2000 16:41 (past predictions) 73
I am curious� will anyone be upset if Florida�s votes are not counted in the Electoral College because of the current �confusion�?

(Let me guess, you are here NOW to look at the unusual hung election we have going on. Or maybe this is the trigger event in the comming world wide econmic meltdown? Some other piviot point in history? Fess up. Why now?)
I would use the word "elections" a bit cautiously. Perhaps its easier now to see a civil war in your future?

Those two quotes above where right on, IF he was trying to tell us something(of course, this is also asuming he was from the future).

You back yourself further into an ignorant corner OIMD. The use of such irrelevant comparisons is getting a little long in the tooth.

Sure someone in the Battle of Agincourt would not know they were fighting in the '100 years War'. But it was not called the '100 years War' until later, obviously. They would however know it was not the first in a series of skirmishes and battles between the English and French, that had already been underway for a few decades. Perhaps if the entire 100 years war was insted called 'The Battle of Cr�cy' your analogy would make more sense. Titor doesn't allude to a wider conflict, he doesn't allude to a different war, he refers to the Palestinian/Israeli conflict. To assume otherwise is just your own beliefs blinding you to the clear and simple truth. You also forget that he is not travelling a few centuries into the past, but he is only from 3 decades in the future. If a time traveller from 1450 travelling back to 1414 would be rather remiss if they simply ranted on about previous battles and failed to mention the looming pivotal battle at Agincourt. Or allude to the wider conflict.

His security v liberty comments were in regards to the difference betwen the 'cities' and the rural people. This he tags as the cause for the civil disturbances. In which a Waco-type incident is meant to happen every month this year.


As far as comments about Dirigibles, they are equally as ignorant, if someone was travelling to 1936 from 1970. As if they would not do at least enough research to at least be aware that the hindenburg disaster was to happen the next year. Even more relevant in this context if you consider his other comments regarding space travel:
02/09/01 14:02 (about the future) 329
13. We don’t know what’s on Mars yet.

02/02/01 10:09 (about the future) 270
As far as space travel goes... no, we are not on Mars yet but we’re trying very hard so we can avoid another “Hell’s Kitchen” outcome from an overpopulated Earth

So, in this he states that Space Travel is still a focus, a big one according to the trying very hard comment. His comments on Mars also seem to be rather strange, as even now we pretty much know whats on Mars, bugger all. We don't know what has been on Mars, if anything. He doesn't make this comment in the context of "theres something there we don't know what", or "what we thought originally was incorrect". He simply states "we don't know what's on Mars".

I would suggest that when he wrote the hoax he was unaware of the coming MER missions and therefore didn't even think to include them in his comments.

As far as the shuttle specifically. He hints that there will be a problem with connecting the new lab to the space station.

He clearly therefore is aware of the shuttle, and of the Space Station. Notice he is clever enough not to give a definitive comment of something so near in the future, as he doesn't want to give it away so obviously that he is hoaxing. So we can't pretend he is ignorant of the space program or the shuttle or the space station. He even tries his hand at a guess regarding the shuttle mission. A guess that was obviously wrong. Even more interesting that he tries these simple guesses yet ignores the much bigger events that are to unfold across the board.

Quite simply, you can continue to twist and turn his words to make them fit whatever reality you wish. But it is just your own beliefs forcing the facts to fit. The simple objective truth is. Titor is a hoax. A good one, and one that has suckered a good number of people. The hoax is full of holes, incorrect predictions, and massive oversights in his comments. As well as that his 'evidences' are fundamentally flawed and blatantly false.

i hereby post this quote made by JT. i got it from johntitor.com.

02-09-2001 02:02 PM

Waco, Ruby Ridge and Elian exist in your news archives. Telling you about impending plane crashes or other disasters (provided I could give you exact dates and times) may save lives at one point but cause cascading changes that take others at a later point.

isn't this sort of a prediction. looking at the similar date have me almost convinced. coincedence? i think not!

Originally posted by darkspace
i hereby post this quote made by JT. i got it from johntitor.com.

02-09-2001 02:02 PM

Waco, Ruby Ridge and Elian exist in your news archives. Telling you about impending plane crashes or other disasters (provided I could give you exact dates and times) may save lives at one point but cause cascading changes that take others at a later point.

isn't this sort of a prediction. looking at the similar date have me almost convinced. coincedence? i think not!

I totaly agree with you on that one...makes ya wonder why he spoke of plane crashes??

A quick look at the laser light photo leads me to believe it's a hoax. Quite frankly it looks more like a small fishing rod under UV light. That may explain why the photo is so dark. A liitle photoshop work to difuse and confuse the viewer and there you have a bent laser beam.

Here:
I swear to myself, that when I'm older, if a time machine is available to me (Which would be quite plausible, seeing as I would like to do a PhD in Physics), I will time travel back to myself and let myself know about it... Right this instant.
Well, I'm not here, so alas... Draw your own conclusions