HAARP should be shut down for good!!!!!

reply to post by Raist

I know some have been pushing their EM theory agenda, without considering the unknown quantum aspects.
But that's understandable, when you work intensively in the field building practical applications, it can give an inflexible view of things.

The problem is with this area of discussion there is no proof. EM theory is not proof in this discussion, at all.
EM theory as it pertains to conventional applications, as explained on this thread, is really very interesting, certainly motivated me to brush up on the details, [add:] but not relevant, in my opinion.

The conspiracy part is the available research, proof, is being concealed from us.

There is no doubt we use and exploit quantum phenomena without understanding how it really works.

Because, as the conspiracy goes, the military complex has total control over the information and research, for security reasons obviously, but the fact, as others have mentioned, that there is a cloud of mystery over the HAARP complex, and the current state of our grasp of quantum theory is such as it is, that there is a good possibility that they are conducting research in that area, which have undefined, and unclear implications.

Originally posted by thoughtform
reply to post by Raist

 

I know some have been pushing their EM theory agenda, without considering the unknown quantum aspects.
But that's understandable, when you work intensively in the field building practical applications, it can give an inflexible view of things.

The problem is with this area of discussion there is no proof. EM theory is not proof in this discussion, at all.

Some papers from a refereed legitimate science journal embracing scalar wave theory - other than that one that poor Tom wrote that got chopped to bits - and, say, some replicable proofs would be nice.

Standard EM theory, as incomplete as it is - well you're typing your answers on a nice proof of concept right now.

Scalar theory - not so much.

Here is a little bit of info I have found that may help some of you understand the scalar waves.

Scalar wave theory is a controversial theory and is considered pseudo science by most qualified scientists.

"In mathematics and physics, a scalar field associates a scalar to every point in space. Scalar fields are often used in physics, for instance to indicate the temperature distribution throughout space, or the air pressure. Some waves, such as temperature waves or pressure waves can be considered as scalar waves. This is because Temperature and pressure are scalar quantities and have no direction associated with them. Any electromagnetic phenomenon, however will always have a directional (vector) component associated with it. This is because a magnetic field is always a dipole (north and south), and is actually caused by the motion of charged particles or an electric current"(www.rmcybernetics.com...)

"Scalar waves are hypothetical waves, which differ from the conventional electromagnetic transverse waves by one oscillation level parallel to the direction of propagation, they thus have characteristics of longitudinal waves. Their existence however, as presupposed in numerous parascientific and pseudoscientific theories, has so far not been proven. Scalar waves are called also "electromagnetic longitudinal waves" or "Teslawellen".

Description
The basic understanding of scalar field theory begins with several defintion of terms within the theory which are also used in academic physics, but assigning them other meanings. A "scalar field" is a set of assigned observable magnitudes at every point in n-dimensional space (compare this with the current academic definition; n is also 4 or greater). An "electric field" are composed of the spinning charged mass, in motion through a finite change in electrostatic scalar potential (compare this with the current academic definition). A "potential" is pure energy and is any ordering (static or dynamic) in the vacuum (eg., the position of the object relative to other objects). A "scalar potential" is the stationary ordering in the virtual particle flux of the vacuum (compare this with the current academic definition). A "vector potential" is any nonstationary ordering in the virtual particle flux of vacuum (compare this with the current academic definition). Scalar potentials and vector potentials are thus defined as being "contained" inside the energy domain."(www.rmcybernetics.com...)

"Magnetic fields interaction
SFT is based on "non-symmetrical regauging" potentials, demonstrated by the interaction of two magnetic fields.

When the field lines oppose each other, the magnets are pulled together. When the fields are aligned in the same direction, the magnets push apart. When two magnets strongly oppose each other but are not permitted to move apart, the force between them is said to create a "scalar bubble" between the magnets. The greater the repulsive force, the larger this scalar bubble becomes. As the magnets move away and the pushing force decreases, the scalar bubble shrinks in size and strength.

In a similar manner, two magnets that are strongly attracted create a "scalar void" between them that grows larger the closer the two magnets become. Two magnets powerfully attracted to one another create a very large scalar void, that decreases as the attracting magnets are moved apart.

Despite the claims of its proponents, no repeatable experiments were able to show the existence of the scalar field. All observed effects were shown to comply to the standard physical laws of electrodynamics. As not only classical electromagnetics but also quantum electrodynamics are a field of physics, where the observations are in spectacular agreement with the theoretical predictions, currently the case for Scalar field theory looks bleak."(www.rmcybernetics.com...)

I hope this info gives some of you an idea on the scalar waves and other components I have listed in this info.

reply to post by kid_cudi


I'd have to say that sort of sums up my feelings on the subject.

I'd love to actually have someone come up with a replicable proof, preferably one that doesn't involve particle accelerators or something. Some Rutherfordian thing you could do with string and wax, at home.

When I was a wee lad and Minto was making the magazines month after month, I always wanted to build a hydronic device and have it work. But even though he published the schematics and plans, no one but Minto ever seemed to be able to get it to work. And then he got all crackpotty and vanished off the scene.

The usual thing you see described is either a capacitor to which you feed the same polarity signal to both plates so it's either got opposing negative or opposing positive charges (thus the "field free" condition) or the same thing with a self-opposing coil, generally some variation on an Ayrton-Perry winding or a Caduceus coil. The only problem with the coils is - they have no impedance other than stray resistance, and don't absorb or radiate any real power at all.

But then again what about the plum island and HAARP stuff I said? Could it be possible? I think it could very well be an issue if it was ever put into action

that's why haarp is so diabolical. it hides in plain site.

Who the hell cares if it is dibolical or not I want my answers wether I get them on here or go straight to HAARP which I might do for the simple fact that it is quite possible for HAARP to cause mass destruction if it was indeed joined by plum island. If you dont know what plum island is you can watch Jesse Ventura conspiracy theory plum island and you will know exactly what im talking about after you watch it. And im pretty sure everyone wants their answeres to so i say we take a hike to HAARP and find out whats really going on. Who's with me? Id love to go

I guess I will be attempting to make this trip by my self then. I wish you all could join at least those who are interested in the potentially deadly destruction that HAARP can cause.

Keep the haarp. It has been used for profit making so far,so we in the future will have something to lean back on.

War=money

Originally posted by Archirvion
Keep the haarp. It has been used for profit making so far,so we in the future will have something to lean back on.

War=money

Are you out of your mind? WAR=SPENDING MONEY WAR=HELL WAR=DEATH WAR=MONEY WE DONT HAVE

reply to post by kid_cudi


HAARP's a research facility. There's no wars going on there at the moment. Lots of knowledge being generated there - your tax dollars are actually being put to good use.

Originally posted by Bedlam
reply to post by kid_cudi

 

HAARP's a research facility. There's no wars going on there at the moment. Lots of knowledge being generated there - your tax dollars are actually being put to good use.

I agree with you bedlam but if turns out to be that our tax dollars are going to be associated with war and certain death by a machine-which could very well happen someday- I dont wanna pay for that unless there is a really good reason to cause destruction. Im already sick of the war in Iraq as many people are but dont get me wrong Im glad the war is being fought over there but seriously I think its time we catch Osama Bin Laden and then get the hell out of there, back to HAARP, Bedlam what do you think about HAARP and plum island if it were to come to life?

reply to post by kid_cudi


Nothing at all. There's no connection.

You don't get more virulent viruses by bombarding them with near-undetectable levels of HF signals. If that were true, you'd have dead zones around every AM radio station.

Besides which, you have to run it through Bedlam's "why bother" filter. It's sort of like those guys that think the government is subjecting them to some sort of slow death by microwaving over a period of years. Why bother? Do you know how much that would cost? How much manpower it would take? No, they'd pop a cap in you, the end.

In this case - you have a moderately expensive steered beam array that puts out signals in the 2.8-10MHz range, which likely could not bounce a signal to Plum Island if they wanted to, and even if they did, it would be of such miniscule power density when it arrived that it would have no effects, and the effect of heating a virus is normally nothing at the bottom end to denaturing at the top end. But why bother? If that were effective, they could just stick some viral aliquots into a diathermy machine there locally at Plum Island.

Besides which, that's not where the really bad stuff is, anyway.

Originally posted by Bedlam
reply to post by kid_cudi

 

Nothing at all. There's no connection.

You don't get more virulent viruses by bombarding them with near-undetectable levels of HF signals. If that were true, you'd have dead zones around every AM radio station.

Besides which, you have to run it through Bedlam's "why bother" filter. It's sort of like those guys that think the government is subjecting them to some sort of slow death by microwaving over a period of years. Why bother? Do you know how much that would cost? How much manpower it would take? No, they'd pop a cap in you, the end.

In this case - you have a moderately expensive steered beam array that puts out signals in the 2.8-10MHz range, which likely could not bounce a signal to Plum Island if they wanted to, and even if they did, it would be of such miniscule power density when it arrived that it would have no effects, and the effect of heating a virus is normally nothing at the bottom end to denaturing at the top end. But why bother? If that were effective, they could just stick some viral aliquots into a diathermy machine there locally at Plum Island.

Besides which, that's not where the really bad stuff is, anyway.

Thats true and thats not where the really bad stuff is because its at Dulce base. But then again you have to keep in mind that plum island is relocating to Manhattan Kansas on the Kansas State University. I have family in Manhattan so thats why im against the relocation of plum island. HAARP is a research tool but are they actually researching what they say they are? or are the results we see from HAARP cover up results for something bigger?

here's another idea, however,what if it was HAARP that saw off those ufo's in that youtube video?

Originally posted by ewokdisco
here's another idea, however,what if it was HAARP that saw off those ufo's in that youtube video?

That could be quite possible but were they Alien craft or a secret undercover Government craft?

hmm but it did escape back in to out of space,kid cudi,and,if that is the case,it says something about our world that is very scary. more so than HAARP.

Originally posted by ewokdisco
hmm but it did escape back in to out of space,kid cudi,and,if that is the case,it says something about our world that is very scary. more so than HAARP.

This world has always been very scary but most people have come to the realization of dealing with it. Its called Reality bro. You learn to accept it and live your life.

Originally posted by kid_cudi HAARP is a research tool but are they actually researching what they say they are? or are the results we see from HAARP cover up results for something bigger?

I browse over the legit stuff on Geophysical Letters, I know some of what the military side does, watched some of it transition to operational sites. It's all C3I or C3I interdiction, for the most part.

It's big to me to be able to make tropo ducts or cause sporadic E on demand. Pretty damned cool to be able to make a mirror and use it to do a SAR scan of an over the horizon target from the ground.

I guess if bigger to you means a death ray, then no.

Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by kid_cudi HAARP is a research tool but are they actually researching what they say they are? or are the results we see from HAARP cover up results for something bigger?

I browse over the legit stuff on Geophysical Letters, I know some of what the military side does, watched some of it transition to operational sites. It's all C3I or C3I interdiction, for the most part.

It's big to me to be able to make tropo ducts or cause sporadic E on demand. Pretty damned cool to be able to make a mirror and use it to do a SAR scan of an over the horizon target from the ground.

I guess if bigger to you means a death ray, then no.

Lol doesn't mean a death ray. That is pretty cool though how they can do that. Id love to see that mirror in action and see the beautiful sites it makes. But on the other hand I want to make a trip to Gakona and spend a full day at HAARP to study and take notes while they conduct their research.