The Influence of Zoroastrianism on Christianity, Judaism and Islam.

reply to post by etherical waterwave


Just to get this clear, I'm not talking about the Catholic love god. Or Jehova etc. etc.

Originally posted by ImAnAlienOnMyOwnPlanet
reply to post by etherical waterwave

 

Award for the biggest liar ever! etherical waterwave!
Pagan origins of Jesus

Religous figures who predate Jesus

Jesus is the biggest scam ever created by man!



There is no Jesus and never will be!

ALAS! the Prophets I MEAN PROFITS! are here!
---King Solomon @$12.99

Originally posted by etherical waterwave

Originally posted by Zamini
reply to post by dontreally

 

Fear is the basis for religion. It can be said in few words as well

edit on 25-10-2010 by Zamini because: (no reason given)

Fearing God is knowing Him.

Indeed. How can anyone relate to the source of all reality without the element of Fear/Awe?

Without it is simply presumptuous and arrogant. We are not G-d.

G-d obviously wants us to love him, and our love should be the motivating factor, but still, fear adds balance and the humility needed to approach the one. But again, the fear im referring to is not fear of punishment, although that is a relevant fear. The highest fear is awe of his magesty and power.

Imagine looking at the himalayas or the swiss alps. Would you not be in awe of such a sight? Imagine a 40 foot Tsunami wave rushing towards you. Would that sight not leave you simultaneously in awe and terrified?

If a wave can do that, or a mountain, how much moreso the power which gives expresion to these phenomena.

reply to post by dontreally


Excuse my French but what a load of crock. Fearing god is knowing him? Which god are you talking about? Or are you going to condescendingly speak of only one god(which happens to be your genocidal yet cultural heritage)? You people seriously DO NOT belong in places where people deny ignorance, because instead of that you strengthen it. Go to a church and have everybody agree with you there, then again, you must have gotten the assignment to convert as many people as possible from there, just as your brothers in faith did with violence(by killling and systematical rape) to billions of people up to this date!

Now tell me, how and why for whatever god's sake would I want to be part of something which has genocide and imperialism written all over it's cultural history? Out of fear that I won't get murdered? In that case I have to inform you that you are barking up the wrong tree.

Whereas before I would keep your notion of this so called god in the back of my head, I can only laugh at your ignorance and the result.

Originally posted by Zamini
reply to post by dontreally

 

Excuse my French but what a load of crock. Fearing god is knowing him? Which god are you talking about? Or are you going to condescendingly speak of only one god(which happens to be your genocidal yet cultural heritage)? You people seriously DO NOT belong in places where people deny ignorance, because instead of that you strengthen it. Go to a church and have everybody agree with you there, then again, you must have gotten the assignment to convert as many people as possible from there, just as your brothers in faith did with violence(by killling and systematical rape) to billions of people up to this date!

Now tell me, how and why for whatever god's sake would I want to be part of something which has genocide and imperialism written all over it's cultural history? Out of fear that I won't get murdered? In that case I have to inform you that you are barking up the wrong tree.

Whereas before I would keep your notion of this so called god in the back of my head, I can only laugh at your ignorance and

the result.

Um. Im not Muslim, but Jewish.

And, i believe it was the christian faith that went around pillaging people, led by sociopathic pagan gnostics who pretend to give a # about their serfs.

That being said, Muslims do understand that fearing G-d is an inherently integral part of knowing him. The Kabbalah explains this. There are essentially two forces in creation, everything can be rooted down to these 2 forces. In the human experience, they are: Love and Fear. In the higher, abstract realms, love is expansive, in that it fills and expands, whereas Fear is restrictive. This is the natural dynamic of reality, a constant expansion and contraction, both in psyche, and body. Sometimes are minds are expansive, and we can understand matters more clearly, experience divine inspiration and insight, and other times our minds become constrictive, called in kabbalistic thought 'small consciousness', this is when the energy from the higher world has become restrictive and harsh, this may result in a feeling of torpor, mental lethargy, inability to experience higher states of consciousness. This is the natural dynamic of life. We see it most beautifully in the ebb and flow of the tides.

Whatever Christianity says about a pure love, and shunning fear, clearly isnt a very intelligent nor balanced way to approach the creator of reality. Life is inherently paradoxical. G-d can only be approached in that manner. Fear is bad were told. But fear is often the stimulus to growth, as is pain and suffering. This constriction is the necessary fall that makes room for growth. Is that not true? Before something new and better can be built up, the old and outused must be destroyed. This is the spiritual experience.

Judaism does not endorse any libertine or morally defunct spirituality. Thats actually found more often within christianities esoteric currents. Judaism emphasizes moral action, in thought, speech and action, the three different spheres in which we express ourselves. In each of these spheres it necessary to show fear. What is the fear im talking about? Well, the fear of disobeying G-ds commandments. Should the fear be a crippling, self deprecating fear? Thats more of a christian idea, which is probably why its so reprehensible to you. This fear is the minimal amount of fear needed to make sure you dont miss the mark; to make sure the you respect the dictates of the King, - G-d, who gave these laws to us for a very logical reason. In reality, when one sins in any unconscienable way, he creates for himself an accusing power. The action itself becomes a spirit which eventually works against you. This is middah kneged middah (measure for measure. this is called karma in the east). The divine attribute of justice seeks to keep things orderly and balanced. When one is too loving, is it not possible for him to become presumptuous, and thus arrogant? Ive seen this many times. A person giving allownaces to himself in ways which if looked at under the lens of judgement, would be understood as being done in the interest of the self and NOT G-d (this is what Judaism emphasizes. That ones become a translucent vessel with not will that contravenes the will of the creator. In this way ones very existence is filled with the light of the creator. Thus, everything he does succeeds. Hes constantly joyful and when misfortunes do occur, he doesnt chastise himself, but understands it as the will of the creator. His job is to man-up and try his best with G-ds support to overcome all challenges) . The aspect of fear is that restriction - boundary, that shows one what is and what isnt. This is the necessary separation between good and evil, that our bodies own internal system does with separating the useful products in the food which can be integrated, and the waste which is disgorged. Likewise, our souls (minds) recognize truth and falsehood. We should integrate the truth and reject the falsehood. How can this be done without the element of fear?

Judaism follows the divine wisdom inherent in G-ds creation. Everything is there to teach us something about its source. That which created it placed its divine impression, its conceptual marker, that any human being if he looks deep enough to see, can understand.

So, Fear is very good. Of course, fear should become an awe that fills one with such admiration for the creator, but also fear of transgressing so one doesnt become separated from the total reality - which is G-d.

reply to post by dontreally

In the human experience, they are: Love and Fear.

Or dark and light, truth and lie etc. etc.

You're 'explaining' the dualistic way of life. However you miss the point that fear is instilled through attrocities commited by men, not god.

I also don't understand why you said you're Jewish and not Muslim. When you're discussing these things it is completely irrelevant what you think you are, unless you don't understand what you're talking about in the first place. Which is the origin of what you believe. Whether you want to believe that or not.

Originally posted by Zamini
reply to post by dontreally

 

In the human experience, they are: Love and Fear.

Or dark and light, truth and lie etc. etc.

You're 'explaining' the dualistic way of life. However you miss the point that fear is instilled through attrocities commited by men, not god.

I also don't understand why you said you're Jewish and not Muslim. When you're discussing these things it is completely irrelevant what you think you are, unless you don't understand what you're talking about in the first place. Which is the origin of what you believe. Whether you want to believe that or not.

I thought you thought i was muslim. Thats why i mentioned it.

And, ultimately, in human emotions, its a maxim of EVERY tradition, not just Jewish, but you'll find this equally in the east and west, because its evidently true, that all matters can be rooted to either a Fear or a love.

fear is instilled through attrocities commited by men, not god.

Really? Do we not fear all the time that we wont suceed? or not good enough? Is this not a fear that has absolutely nothing to do with fear implanted in the minds of men? In either case, fear is a natural human emotion. Fear, is an inherent part of reality, which is why i mentioned the supernal examples of how constriction and expansion are more abstract manifestations of the same dynamic exhibited by Fear ad Love. Yes. I am describing duality, and fear and love are at the root of it.

Did i mention fearing others? The whole reason man fears others is because he doesnt fear G-d. What does G-d do with such a obdurate and sensate soul? he externalizes the fear he should be cultivating towards G-d. So, this can manifest in a myriad of ways. Maybe you fear not meeting expectations. Or maybe you have a phobia of some sort. Fear is also a natural consquence of pleasure. Everyone enjoys pleasure, no? So, would not most people fear pain? suffering? loss? These fears manifest because man lives an external life. his thoughts are focused outwards when he should be drawing down the divine light from inner space, to shine outwards towards others.

Im not describing a superficial fear. Im describing a fear in ones source. A fear in losing ones awareness and connection to ones source. This is definitely something to fear. Its also legitimate to fear offending ones source. When a commoner approaches the king, does he do so in a cavalier manner? or do he make supplication and obesience before him, as a recognition of his lowliness

This is an aspect or archetype of our relationship to G-d that many in the christian world have neglected. G-d is our father, but hes also a king. The former is an expression of G-ds lvoe for his children, whereas the latter the expression of divine order. Theres also one more archetype of human divine relations, and thats a wife towards her husband. in the divine schema, the giver is the masculine and the feminine the reciever, thus, G-d is our husband and we his betrothed. This is a very deep and intimate connection that is exemplified by a devotion to ones other half.

reply to post by dontreally

And, ultimately, in human emotions, its a maxim of EVERY tradition, not just Jewish, but you'll find this equally in the east and west, because its evidently true, that all matters can be rooted to either a Fear or a love.

You are so lost. It is love that is rooted within everyone. Greed, jealousy and vengeance are the roots that instill fear and chaos(dualitiy) within each human.

Can I ask you if you have seen Donnie Darko? There is an interesting bit about fear and love in the movie.

reply to post by dontreally

Im not describing a superficial fear. Im describing a fear in ones source. A fear in losing ones awareness and connection to ones source. This is definitely something to fear. Its also legitimate to fear offending ones source. When a commoner approaches the king, does he do so in a cavalier manner? or do he make supplication and obesience before him, as a recognition of his lowliness

What you speak of sounds not like a king to me but an egoistic populist who threatens subordinates into submission. I don't think you've ever come across a king yet to know how you would approach one so why are you basing your whole belief on something that is so hungry for power and recognition? Something based on the way families of people who claim to be royalty wanted to be treated by the people whom they thought to be lower than them.

I do think you are describing a non-existant fear. After all, what you think to be respectful or not is just that, what you think. And the same goes for me.

reply to post by Mooradian


It seems a little more complicated than simply understanding the history of mono-daiatic religions (is that right ?). There's much within some texts - such as the "memoirs" of st. Patric for example; as he states him-self that he simple took pagan beliefs and catholisised them.. They remain essentially the same. Even Easter eggs, hot cross buns, rabbits, at this time of year (Easter) are idols of a seperatist religion whom the "early Christians" would really have preferred to erase - babylon.

I think it's more of a question as to why there has been so much rewrighting. In my opinion the desire to spread Catholicism, for example (I.e. Rome), is just a question of fiscalisation: spreading the reach of the emperors reach .. Tax.

I have a problem with the Judaic religions. I have asked a lot of archaeologists to tell me where I can find any archaeological evidence of the existance of these people. Believers are talking about a few thousand years before Christ. I am looking for any archaeologic reference of any other culture to the biblical jews. Please do not use the old testament or another religius book. Only archaelogical evidence of another culture outside the place which today is called Israel. I am propably not well informed about religious-historical matters, so please go ahead and post any source worth to look at.