Ancient Anomalies and Aliens - Part 1: Art

Alright, I have found some information regarding the paintings. Or at least several of them:

An old canard used by UFO enthusiasts from the 1950s to the present has been debunked by an Italian art historian. The original material has been around since at least 2004, but since it was originally published in Skeptic magazine, most ufologists have chosen to ignore the analysis.

(Just for clarification of where this stuff is coming from)

Diego Cuoghi examined many of the strange, saucerlike objects hovering in the background of Italian renaissance paintings, and applied a thorough knowledge of Christian iconography to show that most, if not all of these examples can be explained as representations of saints, the holy spirit, angels etc.

This is what got me started in hunting down "holy spirit".

Those two pictures (first two) of the crucifixion. I noticed that they both depicted a "red UFO" and a "Blue/White UFO"

I said to myself, "Self, that has to be representing something "leaving JC's body". Like is spirit..."

Then I read this part, and it really makes sense:

Cuoghi also looked at a myriad of websites dealing with UFOs in old religious paintings and explains:

…no one of the authors of these web sites takes into account the symbolic meaning of these strange elements in respect to the art of the period. Worst of all, by considering these elements as the representation of something real or really seen by the artist, they assume that the artist, eg. an Italian artist of the ‘400 [likely translation error--should be "1400s] or an anonymous Byzantine painter, [would] actually be allowed to insert any non canonical or un-codified element into a religious representation.

(emphasis added)

That is a really good point. Why would they let this arteest paint something that would blasphemy their lord?

In other words, everything in Roman Catholic religious paintings had to be approved by the Church before any public display could be allowed. The local Cardinal would have questioned everything in the work, and if the artist just happened to have seen or heard of shiny flying plates didn’t mean that he could put them in his painting.

I really doubt that they would "allow" these to exist, if those objects were anything but religious icons. Whether or not the icon is "physical" or "allegorical" is going to be a doozy of a discussion!

I would assume that they are allegorical references to the "holy spirit" the same as Jehovah is a representation of the human brain in the Sistine chapel.

Sorry that my two posts so far have been on the negative side, I am actually saddened about this recent turn of events. I always found those paintings to be unique, now it seems that it was common practice.

The statues I suppose I can hunt for next, though I really want to look into that tribe + astronaut. So much to read, so little time.

Saucy Sorcy

S&F pretty good research and nice links.

Altho most of the stuff here is really interesting I just have one remark on one of those; that ceiling beam at the abydos temple with that "helicopter" and "ufo" and whatever, well those are not carvings of what they "seem to be" flying machines or "future tech". That is prolly just a recarving of incriptions which was very common in egypt when new pharaohs came to power. Usually they would take the temple for themselves and then changing some minor details. And just so people know, there is actually proof that the seti I temple at abydos was altered when his son ramses II succeeded him.

So all the others are nice... but the abydos one, theres no way to make me believe in that unless the actual aliens show up at my front door and tell me.

Anyway, nice job!

reply to post by Esoteric Teacher


Haha! Just great!
It was totally called for. I think the video is relevant.

I have a question. How are we connecting the little gold figurines to alien UFOs? I've seen many photo's of UFO's and I've read a lot of eye witness testimony. I have never heard of a UFO with wings and a vertical stabilizer that was thought to be alien. What purpose would they serve in space travel?

CHAOS,
Do you have any info or lore regaurding them? How long until we see part II? Great post, S+F

Notice how the ufo's stick out in every drawing or painting?As if to point it out.You see a beautiful painting with people and nature and then you see a ufo amongst all that as if to say..here I am.

great compilations! i just had to comment on what you wrote about the strange airplane like objects. you quote
"For anyone who knows anything about aeronautics these items are simply mind blowing."
you mean these things that look a lot like birds?
but this is entertaining read...

reply to post by QuantumDisciple



Well just look at the space shuttle for one example. And to take it a step further-suppose you were a visiting space craft (mother ship) you would need some type of craft that could possibly navigate our atmosphere and land and take off like one of our modern aircraft. Keeping in mind this is about "Ancient Aliens" You must assume that the alien spacecraft would have evolved over thousands of years eh? Just sayin.

reply to post by CHA0S


Great thread and very well put together.

It's great to see all the art, in many forms, put together that show what we now call UFO's, in the sky, and what appear to be different species other than humans depicted as well.

If only we could go back in time and see what they saw, and know what they knew, and not be hidden from the truth...

reply to post by amazing


I suppose a civilization from Mars might need a space shuttle similar to what we use now if they were in their space exploration infancy. But if the visitors where from outside of our solar system I can't see them using a propulsion system that would be dependant on aerodynamics once in an atmosphere. I have to say the Egyptian inscriptions are pretty wild. It's one thing to have one hieroglyphic that resembles a modern helicopter it's another to have three separate modern resemblances in a group like that. I would be curious what an Egyptologist thinks they mean.

Great post CHAOS.Star and Flag for you.
I strongly believe that we were visited by Extra terrestrials in the in the past (maybe we still do).

Shamans, kings, and warriors often (usually) bear distinctive headgear in order to distinguish themselves from others. The Hawaiians for example had some unique designs which some might say look alien.

The ceremonial masks and costumes were made according to the "Gods" appearance.In many cultures the kings were believed to be descendants of the gods so they were propably looking to adjust their figures to be similar to the gods.The warriors were wearing fierce masks so that they can scare the enemy away.

So they have reptilian heads. So what? That means they are extraterrestrial? You can also find sculptures with cat heads, wolf heads, Ibis heads. Forget about Bast, Anubis, and Thoth?

I think it was Daniken who said that all these creatures were part of genetic experiment the aliens were conducting in the local population.So they are not ETs but they created by them.If you believe in this stuff of course.

In other words, everything in Roman Catholic religious paintings had to be approved by the Church before any public display could be allowed. The local Cardinal would have questioned everything in the work, and if the artist just happened to have seen or heard of shiny flying plates didn’t mean that he could put them in his painting.

No he couldn't unless he found a really good explanation like:"It's the star of Bethlehen" or "it's the sun" or whatever he could think of....

www.youtube.com...

Sorry i couldn't help it

reply to post by QuantumDisciple


Well I dug a little deeper into the Egyptian "helicopter" hieroglyph and found a mainstream explaination.

members.tripod.com...

You can see at the bottom of the page the full context of the hieroglyphs. One thing that makes this explanation seem like a stretch is that a cartouche is the inscription contained within an oval. All of the hieroglyphs in question are outside of the actual cartouche. Interesting...

reply to post by CHA0S


Just thought I'd add some more balance to an excellent thread.

What I find significant about using these artworks, sculptures and cave paintings is that whilst the images are open to speculation on their own, I believe that historically all artworks, sculptures and cave painting have a narrative attached to them by the artists.

In the OP's case, he ignores researching the item individually in order to see what that narrative maybe, and instead, attaches his own.

To explain this, have a look at these posts on ATS, on other threads on the very same subject as the OP, they illustrate the narrative from the artists perspective and qualify some of the imagery.

Example # 1
Example # 2
Example # 3
Example # 4

It is interesting to ponder this.
If cave painters, renaissance artists, ancient sculptures and architects could all easily show contact with aliens, and sitings of E.T or UFO.
Why can't we?
Why is there no spoken or written narrative that correlates with the art? Why no historical mythology that detail these things as craft from another planet or beings of extraterrestrial origin that specifically relate to these symbols and statues and artwork?

Why are we ignoring trends in creating mythological narratives WITH imagery or cultural narratives as artwork, why does the OP only accept those Narratives pertaining to UFO/Aliens as being significant in the spectrum of ALL artwork, sculptures and cave paintings that deal with supernatural entities.
In this I mean, are Dragons real?
Are Angels and Demons also real?
Are Gods and Goddesses real?
All these have cultural and spiritual narratives WITH accompanying imagery in the forms of sculptures and paintings etc.

Yet, in the case of the OP, we have the artwork, with a separate narrative created in OUR contemporary context whilst ignoring that of the period, the culture and the artists involved in the examples that the OP uses.

It is similar to trying to correlate events and beliefs of today with selected sections of revelations in the bible or trying to use the Mayan Calender based on astronomy to justify a spiritual belief in astrological predictions.

excellent thread...put together much better than the one of a similar topic yesturday thankyou for this particular collection of information...very interesting

Originally posted by Phage
When it comes to interpreting art the interpretation is often in the eye of the beholder. What is "obvious" to one is often not so obvious to another.

As has been pointed out, the religious art of the middle ages is rife with specific symbolism. Without an understanding of that symbolism it is easy to make guesses about what is depicted but it's easy for those guesses to be wrong. Something that puzzles me about the UFO interpretations in this art is that these are artistic renderings of biblical events. Where in the stories which inspired the art are the UFOs?

For me, the Inca objects bear a stylized resemblance to the family of fish, rhinobatidae, more than any aircraft I've ever seen. The arrangement of the empennage does not really make sense from an aerodynamic standpoint, with the horizontal stabilizer positioned so far forward of the vertical. Yes, it can be made to fly, but so can a lawn mower.


Interpreting very ancient drawings becomes problematic. Placing the mystical representations by ancient man into the context of reality is a reach but even so, there is no reason to call upon an extraterrestrial interpretation. Shamans, kings, and warriors often (usually) bear distinctive headgear in order to distinguish themselves from others. The Hawaiians for example had some unique designs which some might say look alien.

edit on 10/9/2010 by Phage because: (no reason given)

makes sense what you say phage but im curious...

as for misinterpreting religous symbols...it could also be possible that during the birth of certain religions ET life was infact misinterpreted by us less advanced humans back then as gods.

also...those images you shown of ancient head gear that shamans, kings and warriors used to wear dont really look anything like the outfits and head gear in the OP...they really do look a lot like space travelling outfits rather than kings head gear.

i agree that art is interpreted differently by different people but id like to think its safe to say the images given in the OP do suggest something coming here not from this planet im sure a large majority of people would agree.

Are there any known written records about UFO sightings in the past (before the 20th century). Since they are portrayed on several paintings, you would think that such impressive events must have been written down in books.

Originally posted by Mdv2
Are there any known written records about UFO sightings in the past (before the 20th century). Since they are portrayed on several paintings, you would think that such impressive events must have been written down in books.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Take it as you wish.

I personally don't believe it is describing anything out of the ordinary, but its an interesting description.

That said, one cannot help but consider text drafts from- for instance- the Mahbharata, such as this one; "Bhisma flew with his Vimana on an enormous ray which was as brilliant as the sun and made a noise like the thunder of a storm."

Why is ancient texts describing jet-planes? Because the writers actually saw them




I have enjoyed this thread... what are they trying to say in paintings, when we talk of symbols

Maybe that a painting could... or does have a message for us all,
Say what you see,
Say what you mean, that would be simple, so why not make the message in the painting... just that?
On asking the painter to explain the message in a painting, would they simply say, (I know what I saw)....

I know there is room for speculation concerning some of the material you have presented. But I would like to comment on the pictures of gold figures that seem to resemble aircraft.

Because these figures are made of gold, they are hard to date, but it's certain that they are least 1000 years. Estimations place them between 500 and 800 CE. They were found around Central America and coastal areas of South America. For anyone who knows anything about aeronautics these items are simply mind blowing. They depict undoubtable knowledge of aeronautics. In the last picture you see scaled up models of these figures, three German model enthusiasts, Eenboom, Belting and Lübbers, have constructed a propeller-driven and jet-engine driven scale models of these figures, and they flew beautifully, compare them with these model RC jets. The source for these pics is the Ancient Aliens series 2010.


What draws my attention to these "aircraft" style items is not only are they made of a material meant to last, not to actually "fly", but rather last through the ages, is also the fact that there seems to be no comparison in nature with the way they are constructed. Only modern aerodynamics offers us some basis for comparison, no flying birds or insects or anything known in nature resembles the components we see in those photographs.

I have to disagree with this. When I look at these I don't see aircraft, I see fish....specifically plecos (algae eaters)....





Especially the raised eyes on the so-called "aircraft"....


NOT saying that I don't believe in alien life forms just that the pics of the airplanes look like these kinds of fish.

reply to post by watermama


Nice thread. I believe in them, but their involvement with us is sketchy

I see a lot of figurines with hooded clothing and headdresses. From a sculptors point of view these would be favored over a normal looking person without a headdress on. Depending on the sculptor- 3 toed carvings may have been easier to do than a 5 toed.

The planes are compelling and artistically given great detail. However the front is round? Some have eyes!
(I want to see a cave drawing of a plane) or even a 300 AD painting of one, even with flattened rounded nose pieces. I have to think these are fish.

P.S. the "helicopter" has been debunked as a re write

@2:20

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I wanted to add this link so you can see different views of the fish


www.google.com... mghp&q=pleco&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=