I have come to embrace Socialism!

Originally posted by jaktenstid
Because socialism uses the power of a State to compel individuals to be charitable. Charity through coercion. When the individual is compelled by the many to give his wealth to others, he is a slave.

No it doesn't. Socialism requires no state nor government to operate.

Socialism is not social programs provided by government.

Socialism is the workers ownership of the means of production.

Charity is a reaction to capitalism and its unfair distribution of wealth and the competition for jobs it causes.

What do you think happens to the people who lose jobs due to outsourcing to China, or example? You just want to let them die from lack of finances due to no fault of their own? What if the state needs those workers again?
It is to the states advantage, and capitalism, to have social programs in order to maintain a healthy pool of unemployed people. This takes power away from the people, the more unemployment there is the less pay and conditions people will except. These 'ressesions' are not natural but a part of controlling the population.

The people are the ones being coerced to work for a private owner at the private owners interest. That is what makes us slaves. No one is coerced (forced) to give to charity.

Wealth is never created in a vacuum, all workers contribute to that wealth creation. All should benefit from it.

Its so disheartening to see in this thread how alienated socialists are from both reality and their fellow humans. They really do view the rest of the world as heartless and exploitative, themselves as not responsible, forever clenching their fist against enemies and evils that mostly exist in their own troubled minds. Overlfowing with hatred they alienate themselves and succumb to Delusions. It is my wish that someday they soften up and join the rest of the world in prosperity and mutual respect.

Capitalism and Liberty are your friends.

Good Luck,

Skyfloating

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Its so disheartening to see in this thread how alienated socialists are from both reality and their fellow humans. They really do view the rest of the world as heartless and exploitative, themselves as not responsible, forever clenching their fist against enemies and evils that mostly exist in their own troubled minds. Overlfowing with hatred they alienate themselves and succumb to Delusions. It is my wish that someday they soften up and join the rest of the world in prosperity and mutual respect.

Capitalism and Liberty are your friends.

Good Luck,

Skyfloating

edit on 11-10-2010 by Skyfloating because: (no reason given)

Capitalism and Liberty is an oxymoron.

I am not motivated by hate but by love.

The rest of the world in prosperity? The rich poor divide is getting WIDER, does that not tell you something?
If capitalism was working and making the world prosperous then why is the gap getting wider? This means that more people are becoming poor not wealthy, the wealth is going into smaller and smaller hands. It is NOT working for the majority of people.

80% of the world lives on less than $10 a day! How is your capitalism making these people prosperous?

I do not view the rest of the world as exploitative, just the capitalist class. They are a very small group of people who control the worlds economy. Most of the rest of the world are the exploited.

Now instead of just ranting on about your opinion of other peoples views how about actually showing some evidence of your claims?

www.globalissues.org...

libertyconspiracy.com...

reply to post by logicalthinking


Didn't Hitler have something against Jews? And Wasn't Jesus Jewish?

reply to post by Marked One


By birth yes! But by religion no. today's stander Jesus would be consider Jewish because of his mother. But that's like saying the actor who play Harry Potter is a model Jew yet he's an Atheist by belief in life and plays a wizard.

This is not simple mindf#ery.
That some of these people do not speak english as their first language may be obvious (not referring to "magnum")
This is not a joke.

Read this

boilingfrogs.wordpress.com...

Originally posted by DogsDogsDogs
This is not simple mindf#ery.
That some of these people do not speak english as their first language may be obvious (not referring to "magnum")
This is not a joke.

Read this

boilingfrogs.wordpress.com...

I don't understand the reference of a language barrier... Can you please elaborate?

I read the link you gave. I see every stage of the pyramid applying to socialism. The bottom two would be guarantied by socialized programs. The third one, well, we don't choose our families! As for the top two. The mere fact that people need to work together and for the collective good gives everyone the feeling of responsibility, status and achievement... Imagine you are a coal miner (like my father in law), you know that the work you do, makes people have electricity. If you are a driver, you get people to work or home. etc... You ARE important! There is no focus on which job is more or less important... You also get to CHOOSE your job and get free education for it as an added bonus!

The top one, you CHOSE your profession, you got free education for it, you raise your family without worry of losing your home, job, etc... You have no fear, you can grow and fulfill your dreams!

What more can you ask?

Would you rather pass on a profession because it's too expensive to study for it, work another job (or 2, or 3) that you HATE. Raise kids in a stressful environment because you can't afford food, health care, etc... Never reach your dreams... How do you achieve the top two portions of the pyramid in this case?

This last paragraph is what too many people are going through now. People are LOSING THEIR HOMES!!! Hello? I repeat LOSING THEIR HOMES!!! Why? Because there is no "job security" anymore thanks to the capitalistic system. Everyone is "downsizing" to lower costs, people can't afford to live anymore! How can you obtain your "esteem needs" and your "self-actualization needs" if you are super stressed over not having the basic needs for survival?

Makes no sense...

Magnum

reply to post by Wally Hope


Impossible, because socialism requires a state to enforce its principles. If it does not, then the first capitalist who comes along will succeed. And he will in the black market which will easily subvert the socialist paradigm. Try again

Also lol @ "coerced to work". Last i heard you apply for jobs in a free country. Geezus christ.

reply to post by Marked One


Here's a cool link you and anyone else would be interested about.
Adolf Hitler election poster
Tell me what you think.

reply to post by Wally Hope


Maybe the rich poor divide is caused by an increasing malaise and sense of self-entitlement that is running rampant across the globe. I blame the lazy sacks of worthless crap who think they are entitled to things i do to better my life, or things i sell to others to better theirs.

Originally posted by jaktenstid
reply to post by Wally Hope

 

Impossible, because socialism requires a state to enforce its principles. If it does not, then the first capitalist who comes along will succeed. And he will in the black market which will easily subvert the socialist paradigm. Try again

No it does not, please read a little about Anarchism, which is basically socialism without the state.

'Anarchism is "stateless socialism".' Michael Bakunin

The only way a capitalist can succeed is by exploiting labour, if people are in a socialist economy how is the capitalist going to exploit labour?

Yes mate try again...

Also lol @ "coerced to work". Last i heard you apply for jobs in a free country. Geezus christ.

edit on 11-10-2010 by jaktenstid because: Adding another point

You are coerced to work for a private owner due to the fact that is the only way to gain access to needed supplies other than breaking the law. There is no choice. The closest you can come to socialism is to open a business of your own, but then if your hire people at an hourly wage then you are just perpetuating the problem you escaped from. Run your business as a coop, with all workers having an equal part in the company, then you are creating a solution to the labour problem.

When you 'apply' for a job you are in competition with other workers for the limited amount of jobs available at any given time, including now countries such as China and India. It has nothing to do with the people. It's because the means of production are privately owned (capitalism) and they control the economy and the jobs and the resources you need (the reason you get a job in the first place) and they'll drop you like a hot stone if they can make more money somewhere else. Capitalism has no morality, it doesn't care about you. This is not freedom.

nope... not gonna do it... just not gonna get involved in this matter, other then to say.. If your wanting Socialism, then your spitting on the grave of all my fallen soldier in arms, who died to allow you to "personally" play out that spiel.. but this is, and always will be "United States Of America"... not the united states of the socialist republic..

Your gonna find that most will say "better dead, then Red"...

i think the greatest minds should come together and try to solve our worlds problems. the greatest motivation for the worlds smartest people should be the betterment of society as a whole. we need to stop looking at things as red state blue state, capitalist, communist and take the best ideas and policies from all different schools of thought and use them to better our planet. i think what it boils down to is education, each and every human should have acces to free top quality education.

Originally posted by Jamesack
nope... not gonna do it... just not gonna get involved in this matter, other then to say.. If your wanting Socialism, then your spitting on the grave of all my fallen soldier in arms, who died to allow you to "personally" play out that spiel.. but this is, and always will be "United States Of America"... not the united states of the socialist republic..

Your gonna find that most will say "better dead, then Red"...

Great line.

Basically, the United States IS the last stand on earth for personal freedom and a Republic. Socialism exists in some form in most of Europe and it took them far less time to bankrupt themselves and loose what freedoms they had. If Socialism is SO GOOD, why, why, not live in one that already exists? Please, go there to fail and not take the rest of us with you.

Sorry to come late to this party, but once you get past all of the propaganda against socialism there are a few concrete facts that can't be disputed. America is no longer the richest country on earth - and in very real terms, average wealth is now 7th in the world below 4 or 5 vaguely socialist countries.

www.credit-suisse.com...

And anybody who thinks that these wealthier countries are in some way evil, let me suggest again that they come and visit them. The quality of life, compared to the US now is just astounding. Don't believe the hype. People can have governments that are non-intrusive, not too taxed and fair that don't just benefit the rich.

The crazy thing for me is seeing how America has turned into this crony-capitalist 3rd world country, increasingly impoverished, at the same time as corporate media ramps up the hype against possible solutions - such as regulation against big banks and tax overhauls to hit the rich.

reply to post by infolurker


Ok... So can you explain why the US FAILED and most of "socialist" Europe and Canada recovered from the "recession"?

Just asking...

Originally posted by Wally Hope

Originally posted by jaktenstid
Because socialism uses the power of a State to compel individuals to be charitable. Charity through coercion. When the individual is compelled by the many to give his wealth to others, he is a slave.

No it doesn't. Socialism requires no state nor government to operate.

Socialism is not social programs provided by government.

Socialism is the workers ownership of the means of production.

Charity is a reaction to capitalism and its unfair distribution of wealth and the competition for jobs it causes.

What do you think happens to the people who lose jobs due to outsourcing to China, or example? You just want to let them die from lack of finances due to no fault of their own? What if the state needs those workers again?
It is to the states advantage, and capitalism, to have social programs in order to maintain a healthy pool of unemployed people. This takes power away from the people, the more unemployment there is the less pay and conditions people will except. These 'ressesions' are not natural but a part of controlling the population.

The people are the ones being coerced to work for a private owner at the private owners interest. That is what makes us slaves. No one is coerced (forced) to give to charity.

Wealth is never created in a vacuum, all workers contribute to that wealth creation. All should benefit from it.

Socialism requires a communist government to operate - because without enforcement of the state we're relying on everyone just being a really "good" person.

As a population grows and resources don't - something's got to give.

Originally posted by Magnum007
reply to post by infolurker

 

Ok... So can you explain why the US FAILED and most of "socialist" Europe and Canada recovered from the "recession"?

Just asking...

Have you read the news? The EURO is seriously still close to collapse - and the U.S. hasn't quite failed there bud...

Ask Germany how much money they've dumped into Greece and tell me Socialism is great... DENY IGNORANCE.

Originally posted by conspiracy nut
i think the greatest minds should come together and try to solve our worlds problems. the greatest motivation for the worlds smartest people should be the betterment of society as a whole. we need to stop looking at things as red state blue state, capitalist, communist and take the best ideas and policies from all different schools of thought and use them to better our planet. i think what it boils down to is education, each and every human should have acces to free top quality education.

should and could ... Jesus said you "should sell everything you own and give it to the poor"... you on board yet?