I have come to embrace Socialism!

Originally posted by badninja777
dont conform man fight socialism join a tea party

I'm taking this as a joke right, funny I didn't think yanks did Irony

Originally posted by randomname
you just proved your own point, these people are border line evil, so could it be that evil people embrace socialism to discredit it because it is the one true way for all of humanity to have a chance at true happiness.

Interesting thought. I like it when people think deeper, beyond the superficial.

I havent even started with what I really believe because its beyond the scope of political debate.

I believe that socialism is based on the confused attempt to apply spiritual consciousness (oneness consciousnes) to the physical realm. This, I believe, is an orcehstrated conspiracy.

Hey guys,

In this thread, commies deny failed commie states were commie after they failed because of communism, say we should give it another chance.


*Anyhow, there are two types of socialists/communist/whatever-term-they-use. And get this; one of the them is not necessarily bad....

...See, there is voluntary socialism, which anyone can do now by entering a commune or Kibbutz, etc. This is perfectly fine.

Then you have the second type: involuntary socialism, which involves taking control of a state and forcing everyone into socialism It is not voluntary and it is necessarily bad, using force to dominate the populace into submission. Most of the self-proclaimed socialists/communists/whatevers on this thread are this kind of socialist and will probably deny it.

reply to post by Magnum007

Wake up people, socialism is not to be feared, it should be mixed with capitalism to form a super system that takes every good thing from capitalism and every good thing from socialism. This idea is not possible, unfortunately, because people are too proud to give up their "perfect" way of life, for free education, health care, and the likes...

I was thinking the same thing and I believe it will happen and happen soon. The only question is what will be socialized and what will be capitalized? Personally, I believe that our basic needs should be met NO MATTER WHAT. We all deserve to take advantage of the natural resources of the world and we should all be looking out for each other in this manner. This would include some of Maslow's Physiological needs (breathing, food, water, sleep, excretion) and some of Maslow's safety needs (Security of Body, resources, and property).

We could socialize just those things that people need to live and leave everything else to capitalism. Innovation and hard work would still be rewarded, you just wouldn't be able to make people miserable to make a buck. Imagine, as a society, teaching people how to garden, fish, etc and giving them a very "dorm" like house costing no more than $15,000. That person would be self sustainable (the house, their food, everything would have to be self sustainable, possibly no electricity and such). This way, those who are taking advantage of the system, would have to work to make their way after being set up.

The house could be something like this, only 100% self sustainable:



Other than a tax (maybe 5% more to make this work?), no one would be forced to do anything.

Thoughts?

reply to post by brianmg5


I have to agree! The only problem is the 5% tax. That would not be enough to keep an infrastructure working. There's no way we can keep health care and school systems on a 5% tax. It would not be enough! At least not with all the government deficits that they currently hold!

In Canada I am already paying over 40% and the country is in debt (I attribute that to poor management, stupid useless illegal war). It's not as bad as in the US though, our debt is manageable, and our country did not suffer as much in the economic downfall because of our less free capitalistic approach (even if Harper was Bush's lap dog for a few years!) and we still have free health care (I don't care to wait a few hours IF IT'S FREE!).

Once the debt is cleared, and the wars stop (I hope), there should be no reason for the country not to work on the current taxation rate, without adding to the services we already have. Start adding the basic necessary services needed. Then should taxes be too high, redistribute the extras back to the people, and lower the taxes so that there is just a little extra every year as a buffer and to give back to the people...

That's my true idealistic system...

Now to get rid of the debt, you need to make the banks become government banks and erase the debt! but that's for another thread...

Magnum

reply to post by Exuberant1


Well ten how else will people realize that their transgressioned (inventing words here) lives are getting ruined by capitalistic idiots who are out to gouge them for basic needs!?!?!?!? Insurance companies, hospitals, grocery stores, banks (mortgage), and now firefighters are refusing to help without being paid 75$ first!!

People are being told to live beyond their needs and are getting fat, lazy, stupid, and then when they get sick, they have to pay astronomical amounts of $ to get care. But NOOOOO it's ok to be like this! Socialized health care? That's commie talk! The capitalistic, corporation run MSM says that social health care is WRONG!

Can't pay? YOU DIE. Boom it's over, you're done! And if you need emergency services, and can't pay later, well you lose your home, your car, your everything... You think this is right?

How and when will people realize that this is wrong? That we should all have the right to live, and prosper together. Helping another get health care with our common wealth only guaranties that should you need the same later, you too, will be guarantied the same thing!

Magnum

Uh Oh!!! Roosevelt?? A socialist??? I guess Stalin talked him into it, you know, during all those vodka and whiskey filled "meetings" they had with their buddy Churchill...

Jesus, Socialism, and Harry Potter

Originally posted by endtimer
reply to post by ImAnAlienOnMyOwnPlanet
And to compare Jesus to Socialism is really, really sick.

Try either reading the Bible or the article he linked to.

James 2:1-7

My brothers, as believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ, don't show favoritism. Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in shabby clothes also comes in. If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, "Here's a good seat for you," but say to the poor man, "You stand there" or "Sit on the floor by my feet," have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts? Listen, my dear brothers: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him? But you have insulted the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court? Are they not the ones who are slandering the noble name of him to whom you belong?

If that was actually said by Obama, rather than being a Biblical quote, wouldn't Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, Sarah Palin and the rest of the right-wing be screaming that this was absolute proof that Obama is a a Socialist?

Originally posted by Exuberant1
Then you have the second type: involuntary socialism, which involves taking control of a state and forcing everyone into socialism It is not voluntary and it is necessarily bad, using force to dominate the populace into submission. Most of the self-proclaimed socialists/communists/whatevers on this thread are this kind of socialist and will probably deny it.

Meanwhile, we're in involuntary fascism right now, where we are taxed to make up for the massive tax breaks that go to corporations...and to pay for the massive subsidies that businesses, corporations and banks get.

I believe a superior system is one where ACTUAL people are helped by our tax revenue, rather than imaginary people (corporate personhood).

reply to post by mothershipzeta


Thank you! I could not have put it better myself! Well said!

Magnum

Originally posted by ImAnAlienOnMyOwnPlanet
Now please don't attack me for presenting my testimony. You're welcome to ask questions.

As a person who is just like everybody else and not as competitive as others are. I have come upon socialism. Not as a revolution idea. But because of Jesus! Yes Jesus seems to have a lot in common with socialism. You might or might call him a socialist but I see that his actions in the Bible go hand and hand with socialism.
I was browsing the web looking for answers and I came across a neat little site explaining why Jesus was indeed a socialist.
Article
Of course that is like saying Merlin was a fan of Harry Potter. Which Harry Potter and like I stated above with Jesus and socialism. The idea of socialism came later. Which I highly doubt politics was what Jesus in the Bible did in life. That's what my cousin tells me. Maybe some of you guys can have a jab at this article and my case of why I embrace Socialism. Tell me what you think of Jesus, socialism and Jesus being a part of socialism.

Jesus was not a socialist, or a capitalist, or a communist, or a totalitarian.

Jesus specifically said he WAS not here for government. Jesus came for two reasons

1. To be a living sacrafice for mankind
   
2. To give a living example of what God would have us be to eachother
   

People tried to place the crown of government on his head - he refused it because his mission was not to govern, but to teach.

Socialism is an economic model where-in all property is owned by the state and divided out to those who need it - when they need it, while no one person sits in excess property that is going unused.

Problem is that actual "people" need to run that government and if you give them everything - then they are holding excess property and guess what they don't want to give up... Read the book Animal Farm. Makes this about as clear as possible.

I think it's really easy to "embrace socialism" if you don't have to live under it. It's kind of like embracing the death penalty - if you're not the one dying... or embracing abortion - as long as it's not your mom having the abortion.

As long as you embrace it as an ideal - fine. But if you look at it as a viable alternative... then you're missing the human experiment.

Originally posted by mothershipzeta

Originally posted by Exuberant1
Then you have the second type: involuntary socialism, which involves taking control of a state and forcing everyone into socialism It is not voluntary and it is necessarily bad, using force to dominate the populace into submission. Most of the self-proclaimed socialists/communists/whatevers on this thread are this kind of socialist and will probably deny it.

Meanwhile, we're in involuntary fascism right now, where we are taxed to make up for the massive tax breaks that go to corporations...and to pay for the massive subsidies that businesses, corporations and banks get.

I believe a superior system is one where ACTUAL people are helped by our tax revenue, rather than imaginary people (corporate personhood).

taxes used by actual people???

You like those cool highways and interstates you're driving on? How about the electrical grid you use every day? How about the fire station and local hospital?

How about the public schools that give every child a complete education through the 12th grade for free?

Don't be so shortsighted - that stuff isn't free.

And Fascism has only been at play since we started the current seasons of government buyouts. Fascism is not what the liberal left would have you believe it to be. Read the actual history of Hitler and see who fits that mold better.

The "Corporations" have only been getting our tax money for the last 2 years. Up to that point they paid more in than anyone else in the country.

And funny - the only ones getting money are all some how tied to the current crop of folks in Washington.... tell me now - who's buttering who's bread?

Originally posted by Magnum007
reply to post by mothershipzeta

 

Thank you! I could not have put it better myself! Well said!

Magnum

You must have attended one of those public schools that Magnum forgot about getting funded by tax dollars.

Originally posted by mothershipzeta

Originally posted by endtimer
reply to post by ImAnAlienOnMyOwnPlanet
And to compare Jesus to Socialism is really, really sick.

Try either reading the Bible or the article he linked to.

James 2:1-7

My brothers, as believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ, don't show favoritism. Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in shabby clothes also comes in. If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, "Here's a good seat for you," but say to the poor man, "You stand there" or "Sit on the floor by my feet," have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts? Listen, my dear brothers: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him? But you have insulted the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court? Are they not the ones who are slandering the noble name of him to whom you belong?

If that was actually said by Obama, rather than being a Biblical quote, wouldn't Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, Sarah Palin and the rest of the right-wing be screaming that this was absolute proof that Obama is a a Socialist?

Did you notice that Jesus was giving personal instruction on how to handle yourself? Not a structure of government. He didn't say "Therefore, let Caesar take your belongings into his possession so that he may equally distribute them amongst the people, and be glad in it..."

You cannot confuse personal instruction for a form of government and/or economic theory. Jesus was a philanthropist. Not a Socialist.

Just wanted to reply to the original poster, because he fell into a trap that many Christians find themselves in.

Jesus Christ was not a socialist, nor would he endorse socialism. Socialism is evil.

Why?

Because socialism uses the power of a State to compel individuals to be charitable. Charity through coercion. When the individual is compelled by the many to give his wealth to others, he is a slave.

However, Jesus Christ taught that charity comes from the altruistic act of giving. Charity through volunteerism. When the individual chooses himself to willingly give his wealth to others, he is a philanthropist.

Originally posted by jaktenstid
Just wanted to reply to the original poster, because he fell into a trap that many Christians find themselves in.

Jesus Christ was not a socialist, nor would he endorse socialism. Socialism is evil.

Why?

Because socialism uses the power of a State to compel individuals to be charitable. Charity through coercion. When the individual is compelled by the many to give his wealth to others, he is a slave.

However, Jesus Christ taught that charity comes from the altruistic act of giving. Charity through volunteerism. When the individual chooses himself to willingly give his wealth to others, he is a philanthropist.

DING DING DING DING - tell 'em what he's won Bill!

Originally posted by mothershipzeta

Originally posted by endtimer
reply to post by ImAnAlienOnMyOwnPlanet
And to compare Jesus to Socialism is really, really sick.

Try either reading the Bible or the article he linked to.

James 2:1-7

My brothers, as believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ, don't show favoritism. Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in shabby clothes also comes in. If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, "Here's a good seat for you," but say to the poor man, "You stand there" or "Sit on the floor by my feet," have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts? Listen, my dear brothers: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him? But you have insulted the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court? Are they not the ones who are slandering the noble name of him to whom you belong?

If that was actually said by Obama, rather than being a Biblical quote, wouldn't Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, Sarah Palin and the rest of the right-wing be screaming that this was absolute proof that Obama is a a Socialist?

I find it funny you pull a quote from a book you find made up. thats besides the point. the point is this quote is bassed on a persons willingness to share there goods "personal willingness" not goverment. if you want to share your bread and house with others do so at your own will. Dont make a law that i MUST pay the goverment to be charitable for me!

reply to post by 547000


Maybe you need to educate yourself with something other than the MSM?

You might find it not so funny...

www.goodreads.com...

Capitalism destroys the main planks on which most of us wish to build our societies - democracy, a market economy, and an ethical culture. Consequently, we need to adopt policies which are almost exactly the opposite of those being followed at present.

We live in a world being pillaged by the institutions of global capitalism to enrich the few at the expense of the many. It has become more than just a political issue. We have reached the point in human history at which the very survival of civilisation and perhaps our species depends on replacing these rogue institutions with institutions supportive of democracy, market economies, and ethical cultures that function in service to life and community. Yes, your heard me right. We must replace the global capitalist economy with democracies and market economies. Now how's that for a radical idea?

For those of us who grew up believing that capitalism is the foundation of democracy, market freedom, and the good life it has been a rude awakening to realise that under capitalism, democracy is for sale to the highest bidder, the market is centrally planned by global mega-corporations larger than most countries, the elimination of jobs and livelihoods is rewarded as an economic virtue, and the destruction of nature and life to make money for the already rich is viewed as progress. Let us speak truth tonight. Global capitalism is not democratic and it systematically violates every principle of a market economy.

www.feasta.org...

This is Anything Goes capitalism. It destroys companies. And it destroys workers’ lives. But it sure does work for the private equity firms. They made around $750 million in profits from the now-indebted and bankrupt Simmons.

‘Anything Goes’ Capitalism Destroys Companies—and Workers’ Lives

HOW Corporate Capitalism Destroys Our Environment

When capitalism destroys democracy

Open your eyes and your heart mate.