My personal take on Freemasonry, why i didn't join.

reply to post by defcon5


I'd just like to know your sources. It always astounds me that non-masons have so much information on masonic knowledge. However, since we here at ATS are all about finding truth I think that you should know that some thing that I know for fact. Christianity is without a doubt and undeniably a pagan religion. the Satan is a corruption of Pan and Typhon from Greek mythology as well as Ahura Mazda from Zoroastrianism. The Christian God bears a remarkable resemblance to Zues and even fight with his trademark thunderbolt. All the trademark holidays (Even Christmas and Easter) are pagan. Did you ever wonder what A rabbit and eggs has to do with the Saviour's rebirth or why Sheperds were out in the winter? In fact, Christ's divinity wasn't established until long after his death by a group of priestsI can also tell you that Isis gave birth as virgin in Egypt long before Mary, Surprisingly enough, Osirus, The Egyptian king of gods, as well as odin both rose from the dead long before Christ. I'm not trying to ridcule your beliefs, but this is all true, you can look it up on legitimate sites and find it. Constantine, the Roman PAGAN ruler who used Christianity as a way to subdue the Hebrew people, bastardized the religion to incorporate a variety of religions into it and make the change he pushed upon his empire more smooth. So now that you know that you are already a pagan, you can join. Enjoy

P.S. Judaism came out of Iraq. I know for a fact. Abramham's birthplace, Ur in right outside of Ali Air Base, near Nasiryah, Iraq. That would explain the similarities between Judeo-Christain religins and Zoroastianism.

reply to post by BluePillOrRedPill


WROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG! but thanks for playing. You CANNOT become a mason without first having a belief system and strong morals. Freemasonry in no way interferes with your duty to your god, family, religion or country. You guys really should check your sources,Your closed-mindedness may cause you to miss out on a beautiful thing.

reply to post by BluePillOrRedPill


You did well not to join! For info and as far as i know, the first ceremony is actually really a "bad thing" that just a fool would do. To make it simple this ceremony is somehow the "reversed" interpretation (like reversed things in black Magica) of the traditional "knight allegance ceremony" from the middle age in Europe.

Originally posted by moltquedelo
reply to post by BluePillOrRedPill

 

as far as i know, the first ceremony is actually really a "bad thing" that just a fool would do.

yep, as far as you know. But without actually being there, what makes you think you have any true knowledge at all about what happens when a man is initiated into masonry and brought from darkness to masonic light?

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by moltquedelo
reply to post by BluePillOrRedPill

 

as far as i know, the first ceremony is actually really a "bad thing" that just a fool would do.

yep, as far as you know. But without actually being there, what makes you think you have any true knowledge at all about what happens when a man is initiated into masonry and brought from darkness to masonic light?

edit on 7-11-2010 by network dude because: removed on of these

Thanks God in this world there are many other ways to gather knowledge than "masonic light". I think there is nothing to "know" about when a man is initiated into masonry, except maybe about brainwashing, maybe damnation too or even black magic. Most knowledge that is not "real knowledge" is often better not be "known".
Do you need to put your hand into the fire to know what it does ?

reply to post by moltquedelo

Man that's a lot of maybe's.

Book knowledge can only take you so far, but real life experience trumps that every time.

reply to post by moltquedelo


you wouldn't be able to be a mason. The first lesson would send you screaming out of the building.
Ahh, trust. It's such a nice trait. Shame you don't have it nor the ability to learn it. Believe your stories of Black magic and Lucifer. They fit well with all the other lies I am sure you have embedded in your head.

reply to post by BluePillOrRedPill


Like mourinho said. "I could of learned it all if i just watched vids from the internet".

Of course there is still loads of rubbish out there, but if you follow yourself, you may get as many truths as one who has gone through many degrees of free masons, lol.

reply to post by moltquedelo

Do you need to put your hand into the fire to know what it does ?

Yes.

I'm pretty hard-headed, and I'm also from the "Show-me State." Nobody in my family ever took someone else's word for whether or not the pan was hot, we had to touch it ourselves! I've been married for 5 years, and my wife still finds a new scar and a new story to hear just about every night! My poor old body is a working canvas for my hard-headedness.

Now, does that apply to Masonry? I think it does, because I sure as hell wasn't going to listen to a bunch of fruity internet stories about it, I wanted to see for myself! AND, it has been a wonderful experience. Could I have been wrong? Sure, I guess so, I have heard stories of people in fraternitites getting sodomized as part of their hazing and initiation. When they told me to be sure and wear clean socks and underwear to the first initiation, I can admit that those stories ran through my head, but I went anyway. I trusted the men that I had met, and I trusted my own instincts.

I agree with others. You would have been a bad fit for Masonry. You probably made the right choice.

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by moltquedelo

 

Man that's a lot of maybe's.

Book knowledge can only take you so far, but real life experience trumps that every time.

edit on 8-11-2010 by KSigMason because: (no reason given)

Book knowledge can't make it all I agree, but let me tell you, you have no idea of my life experience

Best players never plays and for magery/esoteric "things", wide knowledge is far more wise than practice.

My "maybe's" are because I don't want to offence/disrespect/trouble "too much" anybody believes/"religion" and also because for those kind of things you cannot affirm/guarantee something 100%, so yes I think "maybe" is more appropriate.

reply to post by moltquedelo

I may not know your life experiences, but I can tell they haven't been with the Freemasons. I have real life experiences with the Freemasons and have moved quickly through the various groups because of my willingness to learn the work, to study, and take charge as a leader. There are many knowledgeable Masons here...even a few fabled 33rd's.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by BluePillOrRedPill

 

You have a pretty good understanding of the ceremony, but it is you that do not understand the true meaning of the ceremony. His answer was intentionally vague, because you have to experience the ceremony first hand. It is against our obligation to tell it to you in advance.

If you had trusted your instincts about the men and the history, and if you had decided to join, then you would have experienced the ceremony, the meanings would have been explained and illustrated in a number of different ways, and you would know that all the conspiracy talk and paranoia is laughable.

As for the money. I guarantee it didn't go to summer vacations. The fact is, most Masons have other obligations and families, and summertime is a difficult time to bring a large group together for degree work. We don't do a whole lot in the summer, and we don't do a whole lot over the Holiday season. It is logistics, not some nefarious plot.

As for the "3 degrees in one day" that is a new phenomenon that most older Masons don't like. It cheapens the experience and rushes you through it with the intention of getting you into lodge faster, but without the true background and understanding you need. It is called a "1 day degree." I did it. I was disappointed, and I wish I had done the longer versions. Since then, I have participated in many, many long degrees, and they are far more entertaining and educational. We stopped doing the 1 day degrees at my Lodge.

If you have any more "specific" questions, and you would like a first hand account, please feel free to ask, but please stop purporting to know more than those of us that actually went through it.

How can you possibly ask any reasonable adult to engage in a ritual without fully explaining to them beforehand what the meaning of the ritual is?

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by Dr Cosma

 

As a Mason, I have never asked to endorse or denounce anything, or any God, demi-God, or idol. We demand that you are not an Atheist, and that you believe in "one, ever-living God." We do not specify what the name of your God is. I suppose, on some level a person could be a Satanist and also be a Mason, but I do not think it would be very popular. In my experience the Masons are very open about their mostly Christian religions, and I think someone that was not some type of Christian, Jew, or Muslim would be very, very uncomfortable. Like I said, that is just my experience and opinion, it is not impossible that a Satanist could also be a Mason.

Maybe your grandfather just didn't like Priests, or churches, or Baptisms. Maybe he was trying to be funny, or maybe he was truly some type of satanists. There are many levels of that religion, and most of them are not evil in nature. In most cases they are more like Wiccans and they believe in the power of man and the importance of the Earth and nature. (I am not a Satanist, but I do read a lot.)

In all cases, whatever the tendencies of your Grandfather, please do not project them onto me and all Masons. Evaluate us for what we are. We are individuals with varied backgrounds, experiences, and beliefs, and we come together as a fraternity to learn and improve ourselves through the history and morality of Masonry, and by the camaraderie of other good men. That is the short and long of it.

I would be very willing to evaluate 'you' for what you are - but since, by your own admission, you are not given the meaning of the rituals you undertake before taking them, how can you possibly know what goes on in the levels above yours? You seem to be speaking in support of the 'secrecy' aspect, yet at the same time ask people to evaluate 'you' for 'what you are'. Full disclosure is required for that, and unless I am very much mistaken, and the masons I have known have been telling lies, disclosure is not something 'you' do.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by moltquedelo

 

you wouldn't be able to be a mason. The first lesson would send you screaming out of the building.
Ahh, trust. It's such a nice trait. Shame you don't have it nor the ability to learn it. Believe your stories of Black magic and Lucifer. They fit well with all the other lies I am sure you have embedded in your head.

What is the first lesson?
second

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by moltquedelo

 

you wouldn't be able to be a mason. The first lesson would send you screaming out of the building.
Ahh, trust. It's such a nice trait. Shame you don't have it nor the ability to learn it. Believe your stories of Black magic and Lucifer. They fit well with all the other lies I am sure you have embedded in your head.

Well, now I see that there is no requirement for a mason to be either kind or courteous.
second.

Ok. Here's a hypothetical question for the masons on this thread. If a mason, of high degree - say above 33 - sexually abused a child, and the other freemasons (some from every degree) had real hard evidence that he had done this, would they inform the police and testify against him in a court where the judge was not a freemason?

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by moltquedelo

 

I may not know your life experiences, but I can tell they haven't been with the Freemasons. I have real life experiences with the Freemasons and have moved quickly through the various groups because of my willingness to learn the work, to study, and take charge as a leader. There are many knowledgeable Masons here...even a few fabled 33rd's.

I think in life experience "you are alone", by definition it's something "personal", men are not like ants with the queen or like wolves with the pack. You may add "with God" if you believe in him or "with your family/people who loves you " if you have some. And "sorry" but I doubt a group of guys most often you don't know, asking you to put you on your knees , your hands tight, your eyes covered, with a sword on you, asking you to keep secret about things you don't know # about really "love" you (or diserve "trust")

We could debate forever, I could tell you step by step why this first ceremony is "bad" and how its the reversed ceremony of the "knight submission to lord/king" (i would not convience you anyways) but the only thing i feel to tell you is this simple thing: "If you do something you have to hide, don't do it".

reply to post by wcitizen

Truth is the first lesson we learn.

reply to post by wcitizen

There is no degree above 33rd in recognized Freemasonry

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by wcitizen

 

Truth is the first lesson we learn.

reply to post by wcitizen

 

There is no degree above 33rd in recognized Freemasonry

Thank you.

Any chance of answering the other part of my question?

Originally posted by wcitizen
What is the first lesson?

To be Truthful and Honest.